Haven’t seen all the episodes in question, but looking at the list, I think your assessment was accurate.
Edited by costanton11 on Dec 7th 2020 at 1:35:09 PM
Angry babby
Just wondering...is it accurate how many of these examples describe Critic as "slutty" or "horny" or "sexually repressed" or "sexually submissive"? Like, a few episodes make jokes about that, but is it really such a core aspect of his character that it needs to get brought up again and again?
Or is it just an overeager fanfic writer who really wants to project their lustful feelings onto this guy who reviews movies, and put it all over a public wiki for us to see?
(I feel like it's the latter.)
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Well there is this from So Beautiful, It's a Curse
- Doug Walker shows everyone the dangers of mixing this with Extreme Doormat. He'll say no to a sexual request at a convention (one example being getting on his knees and eating a sugar cube out of a girl's hand) but will get hammered into doing it anyway. Then there'll be posts declaring it his own fault for being "too conventionally pretty".
So yeah it's clear he is aware of fangirl's feelings. Though I wonder if the submissive attitude is a bigger part of it, he's not ugly but not remarkable either.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Dec 17th 2020 at 12:17:18 PM
Angry babby
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The show makes fun of his appearance a few times, so it's not like he considers himself particularly beautiful. I guess it technically fits the trope...but by that metric, every celebrity probably does, since they all have fans who find them attractive and would probably bug them over it if given the chance?
Also, who out there thinks Doug Walker is "too conventionally pretty"? Like, I see attractive aspects, but Chris Hemsworth he is not. (Unless they mean he's pretty at conventions.)
Either way, the entries about Doug on this site are like...the most uncomfortable part of this site for me. Partly for personal reasons but also because they're....so weirdly horny.
Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 17th 2020 at 1:24:21 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
It's so weird. I mean, when I watched his stuff I never exactly found him...sexy. He just made me laugh.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I don't understand it either, although I may be biased because I currently strongly despise the Critic. I wonder why it's so common on this wiki-how intense was the fanbase? Anyway, cut the creepy examples as we see them. Fetish Fuel is gone and it isn't coming back.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Angry babby
While TGWTG was indeed once popular throughout the wiki, I suspect this particular creepy stuff comes more from one or two very dedicated fans, who are also probably the people who held very specific grudges against the 2013 season. One of the frequent page editors was my friend at one point and they - and the other fans coming from Livejournal - viewed the show as more dramatic and sexually-charged than it probably is.
It's honestly hard to tell sometimes whether it's relics of Fetish Fuel or if there really are enough sex jokes in this show to make determinations about Critic like this...but really the show operates more on Rule of Funny than they seem to believe.
Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 18th 2020 at 5:31:31 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Interesting. Well anyway, let's get back to the cleanup.
Angry babby
I've been working on the character page cleanup lately if anybody wants to help.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
If it helps, I'm thinking of advertising this thread for January's Trope Report. Get some more voices and hands.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Angry babby
I'd really appreciate it! I feel like most of the cleanup has been on me and I'd love for more people who knew the show back in the day to provide their perspective.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Just need to figure out how to word the advertisement ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Angry babby
You can use my top post as a guide since I pointed to some of the common problems 
Speaking of Real Life examples, the Take This Job and Shove It has a praise how the critic quit. In hinsight the decision was seen as immature, so I will remove the praising part.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Dec 18th 2020 at 1:53:23 PM
Angry babby
Gushing should go in general, yes. The example also could use actual context about what he did in the video.
Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 19th 2020 at 9:08:55 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I decided to go through Kickassia and bring up any entries I thought seemed off. Here's what I got:
- Cringe Comedy: In Film Brain's commentary, a lot of the funnier stories about his experiences on the trip fall into this category, from him accidentally locking Phelous out of their hotel room to the "moderating the forums" bit. You really have to sympathize with the poor guy. This is meta stuff, even though Mathew brought it up in good humour. Unsure if it should be cut
- Does This Remind You of Anything?: With how the kitchen scene in Part 6 is shot, you wouldn't be surprised if they were leading up to a gang bang instead of just a beatdown. Uh, maybe a non-consensual one since they're preparing to beat the Critic up? The closest thing might be Phelous pinning him against the fridge, but I doubt that was intentional
- Fan Vid
- One piece
of epicness set the saga to "The Cell Block Tango", making it look like Critic had really got around (in his usual Fandom Bike way) and the others wanted to kill him because of that kind of betrayal. Extra funny because Critic had earlier put Cell Block Tango on his "Top 11 Villain Songs". The video is set to private. The other entries below it are at least still up, surprisingly enough
- One piece
- Foreshadowing:
- Critic shooting Santa Christ in blind panic is the reason why Santa Christ hates him in all NC appearances until To Boldly Flee. (Then Critic fucks it up by coming down from the Plot Hole evil, but that's another issue.) Oh look, more post-uncancellation salt. I think this is an easy cut, since it's unintentional at best.
- Spin-Off
- Story Arc: Continues on from the one in Critic's show about him hating his job, going as far as to be willing to commit mass murder-suicide just so he doesn't have to go back. There's also his issues regarding being spooned by Spoony, both manipulating him to be Insano because “do it for me”, and still wanting to shoot Insano when told “Spoony's still in there”. Okay, continuing the Critic's self-loathing part is true, but I'm not sure how much it continues the "Spoony with Spoony" stuff. The events of that are never brought up and his interactions with Spoony/Insano are probably meant to be taken at face value.
- Troper Critical Mass: So many tropers were watching this that entries were being posted minutes after the videos were uploaded. Okay, honest question: is this really a trope? I should probably take this to the TRS or something, because it seems weird to have something like this as a regular trope...
- Zig-Zagging Trope:
- Also Narm in the Critic and Spoony's talk about Insano. The scene is simultaneously played for unironic laughs, Played for Drama and meant to be funny due to how badly the two are overacting. You can't play with a YMMV trope. Especially one that's supposed to be about unintentional comedy. Cut.
So, any feedback or second thoughts before I go ahead with my edits? If you see any problematic entries on the page itself that I may have missed, please feel free to bring them up.
Angry babby
- Cringe Comedy might go on Film Brain's own page.
- Does This Remind You of Anything? reads like a classic creepy-fanfic "Critic is a fucktoy" entry. I agree it should be cut.
- Bummer that the Fan Vid entry is down - I remember liking that video, though I get why it'd be private now. I think it does have enough context beyond the weblink to stay, however.
- Wank aside, the Foreshadowing example isn't even foreshadowing so much as Fridge Brilliance.
- The Spin-Off entry appears to be another Fan Vid, not anything official, unless robertmillion was part of TGWTG.
- The "Spooning with Spoony" stuff is more "the show must be exactly like my fanfics!" junk. A lot of other entries take that episode more seriously than it was intended as well.
- Troper Critical Mass can be cut. Also, maybe it's not a great idea to brag about how many people add entries when so many of those entries take the form of self-indulgent shoehorning and wank.
- Agreed on cutting the Zig-Zagging Trope. Also, if it's meant to be genuinely funny, it's not Narm.
I'll look through the page itself more later but I don't remember Kickassia very well.
(At this point I'm wondering if I should expand this to be another TGWTG cleanup, but the real trouble comes from anything attached to Doug's name, as the same people edit those pages and have the same recurring issues.)
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Angry babby
So taking a look myself, most of Kickassia seems to be ZCE at worst, not shoehorns or creepy shit or complaining. I'm also not sure how many of the spoiler tags are necessary, and I'm changing "Channel Awesome" to "TGWTG" simply because that's what the channel was called at the time and it's consistent with the page. (I know that's probably an Edit War, but I didn't realize this until after I started correcting and I forgot which parts of the page used to be "Channel Awesome"... either way I think it should be consistent). However, I will bring some examples that I find questionable.
- Freudian Slip: At one point, the Nostalgia Critic refers to Phelous as "Phallus". Might not count, since he seems to be doing it on purpose. So which is it? It can't count for both tropes.
- Hilarity Ensues: Every. Single. Minute. Bold Inflation and ZCE aside, this might just be gushing about the special being funny, which isn't the trope.
- Moral Event Horizon: In-Universe, the Critic's killing of Santa Christ is seen as this by the team, even though he didn't mean to and went to great lengths to try and bring him back. Even Film Brain turns on the Critic after the fact. I don't think this is a proper In-Universe MEH.
- Negative Continuity: Everyone is out of character to some degree, in the name of the Rule of Funny. Obviously, the MST3K Mantra is in full effect. This is a borderline-complainy ZCE.
- Evidently hearing a lot of wank about this before the saga had even finished, Lewis noted this in his Twitter:
To #Kickassia and those who say people are acting out of character, remember that we didn't do anything that we didn't want to do. ^_~ Unrelated to the cleanup, just wanna note how this tweet is Harsher in Hindsight...- Film Brain responded to this as well, saying that everyone is just playing facets of their personalities, and that he can actually be quite bouncy and enthusiastic in reality.
- Novelization: Kickassia: The Novelization, by Xoanon (unofficial). If it's unofficial, can it be listed here?
- Stealth Pun: N. Bison makes one in Part 6: "Who knew running a dictatorship could be so one-sided?" What's the pun here? It's not so much wordplay as it is irony.
- Sympathetic P.O.V.: We're with the Critic for most of the movie, so he's still likable (crazy and slightly broken... but still likable). If we'd been with, say, Film Brain for 80% of it, the perception would have been very different. Critic is still clearly evil in the movie; I don't think he's meant to be sympathetic, but a Villain Protagonist and The Chew Toy.
Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 19th 2020 at 8:58:42 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
The novelization fanfic entry is no longer on Fanfic.Net.
Edited by costanton11 on Dec 19th 2020 at 11:55:35 AM
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Okay, now here's my overview of Suburban Knights. Here's what I got:
- Author Appeal: There's not one woman who doesn't display some kind of dominance (either snarking to get their way or being an Action Girl) at least once. Even Doug's ex who gets blown up is more interested in hitting on the cute evil guy than being scared of him. I know the trope does tend to cover fanservicey material, but I dunno. I'm on the edge for this one
- Belligerent Sexual Tension: Critic/Lupa, or at least so far. He wanted to kiss her after she fainted but he's also pissed off with her princess role, while she yanks his tie around when she yells at him. BST is supposed to be about reciprocal attraction, and I don't really recall Lupa returning the favour.
- Big Budget Beef-Up: They apparently got enough to use a few real explosions on Bill's car and in the final episode. Most of the costumes seem like they'd also cost a pretty penny. "Real explosions"? They used stock explosion effects and laid them over the footage. They look better than Kickassia, but they definetly not real explosives.
- Dolled-Up Installment: Ma-Ti was supposed to die in Kickassia, but Doug couldn't find a place in the story to put it, so he had to wait until this film to use it instead. I'm gonna assuming this was brought up in a commentary that I can't remember, but this is misuse. Dolled-Up Installment is for works that are hastily rewritten to become part of a franchise. This fits Refitted for Sequel more.
- Do Not Go Gentle: Not just referencing Ma-Ti's rant before his fight with Malachite, there is a meta one as well for Matt "Apollo Z. Hack" Burkett who left the site before the filming (citing creative differences) but still noticeably contributed to the overall quality of the movie's special effects alongside Phelous' always excellent efforts. Going out with a bang, literally? Meta troping.
- Exposed to the Elements: It was cold and windy. Benzaie makes it clear in his vlog that it was hard to remain shirtless, and Lupa put on her leather jacket between takes to remain warm (said jacket was even incorporated in a battle). Also, nearly everyone got sunburn. More meta troping, although this one at least brings up a behind the scenes vlog. Tempted to cut it though.
- Fanservice:
- The real Link and most male cosplayers have tights on and a skirt that goes down to their knees. Doug does not. Even a few of the women on the site have marveled/complained about the niceness of his legs.
- JewWario as Jareth is Mr. Fanservice in-universe.
- Some fans see Critic's up-skirt shot as this. Lewis lampshades this by saying all the Critic fans hit their screen-capture button at this exact moment, Doug brags on his commentary about even guys telling him they thought it was hot, and Film Brain had his turn when he went on a Fetish Fuel Wiki trawl, saying that it had to be listed as such.
- Benzaie walking around in a leather outfit shirtless.
- That's quite a neckline, Lindsay.
- This fan service is even lampshaded by the Spoony cast commentary. Bennett says that Lupa pulling the Critic's tie and shouting at him that he'll be a lady and like it will inspire millions of fic about forced feminization.
- Turned out to be a bad thing in Rob's eyes, as he complains in the To Boldly Flee commentary that Doug basically wanting to rock a mini-skirt detracted from the Malachite/Ma-Ti drama. I can say most of these are decent examples, for the most part. Some of them might need to be reworded to be less pervy though. I doubt that Lindsay's was intentional though, and Rob's commentary comes across as Natter (or at least should be merged with the entry talking about the other producer's comments).
- Foreshadowing:
- Ma-Ti's last words to Critic are "the power is yours". Not in the supernatural sense like fans thought, but the power to change his life for the better. Aside from a dead link to the Critic's Scooby-Doo review, I doubt this is meant to be some deeper comment aside from the Captain Planet reference. In fact, "the power is yours" always had that double-meaning in the cartoon, so it's not that special.
- Ma-Ti's last words to Critic are "the power is yours". Not in the supernatural sense like fans thought, but the power to change
- Oh, Crap!:
- The reaction of many who saw the DVD Stinger: The gauntlet survived the final battle, and is now in the hands of Mechakara. Meta example, not from the work itself
- Red Herring:
- At the end of Part 5, Film Brain is separated, captured, and brainwashed by the Cloaks. In Part 6, it turns out he's so incompetent as one that they decide to abandon him for his team to find and undo the brainwashing. A Red Herring is supposed to be for a misleading clue. I don't think this applies here, as it's already covered under Pseudo-Crisis earlier in the page
- Ship Tease:
- Cinema Snob and MarzGurl in Part 3.
- Lupa sure likes pulling Critic's tie and he wanted to kiss her awake in Part 2.
- Chick is the only one who can talk to Critic about him showing way too much without being squicked and he clings to her hard when he gets scared.
- Both of these get lampshaded in the cast commentary. For Chick/Critic, Lindsay says the characters have a "history" and for Critic/Lupa, Sage mentions that a million forced feminization fics are going to be written.
- Joe finds Lupa in leather with a machine gun surprisingly hot.
- During Part 7, JewWario and Nostalgia Chick can be seen holding each other while the whole group shouts 'Heart' in unison to aid Ma-Ti, and later the latter rests her head on former's shoulder during Ma-Ti's funeral. Some of this stuff fits, others not so much. I'm leaning keep the stuff with Critic/Chick, Joe/Lupa, and the Critic wanting to kiss Lupa awake. Toss the rest
- Special Effect Failure:
- Jaffers and the Cloaks had some awfully wobbly swords for their supposed lethality. Just sayin'.
- Related to the swords, Linkara said he wanted to bring his real sword, but Doug was worried someone would get hurt and just gave him one of the Cloaks' plastic swords.
- Proven to be a valid fear, when Rob got hit in the face with Suede's katana during one battle scene. This all seems to be out-of-universe troping, which should go on the YMMV page.
- Jaffers and the Cloaks had some awfully wobbly swords for their supposed lethality. Just sayin'.
Once again, if anyone wants to offer their thoughts or bring up other examples from the page they think need to be look at, please feel free to speak up.
Angry babby
I'll add in more thoughts later when I'm on laptop but I will start by saying Doug's Link costume is played as Fan Disservice in context. The fact everybody can see his junk in his skirt is played as a gross moment. Compare this to the character who is clearly in-universe fanservice, Justin (ugh).
Does Fanservice even get examples? It's more of an index.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
she/her
It has almost 10k wicks, so I'd say it does get examples.
Angry babby
I meant should it get examples. Eh, that's a question for TRS I guess.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Maintenance?
There was an ATT about it being a gushing magnet... I think it's linked from the Tropes Needing TRS entry.
It's a bit hard for me to tell what counts as Wham Episode because episodes that mark a subtle but significant change in character portrayal or continuity are probably more major for this show than others. Any second thoughts on my review?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.