During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
J: Batman and the Riddler from that movie have their own character pages, so I've added them in the Sandbox.
Currently working on an EP for MK's Onaga.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well you must be the happiest man in the world right now since you got Liz Gillies (Jade West herself) her first keeper! Haha. Based on the EP, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to yet another Catwoman.
Anybody gonna try the Long Halloween version? Whether or not she counts, God rest Naya Rivera (been two years since her passing as of the 8th now).
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 27th 2022 at 10:19:39 AM
Blazing Larvesta
I've been in a bit of a Rhythm Heaven craze the past few weeks, and going back through the franchise, I found a character I think might be able to make the cut.
What is the Work?
Rhythm Heaven is a rhythm-based series of games developed by Nintendo. Though the franchise appears to share a universe with Nintendo's WarioWare series, it does still have lore and worldbuilding dedicated to its own series. The character I am proposing is a recurring opponent from the fourth game, Rhythm Heaven Megamix, Paprika of the Gatekeeper Trio.
Who is Paprika and what has he done?
Throughout the game, Paprika interrupts the player's progress alongside his brothers, Saffron and Saltwater, appearing three times in Earth World and a fourth time in Heaven World; Paprika providing the hardest, albeit cheapest, versions of the challenge each time. The Gatekeeper Brothers task the player with Endless Minigames, which indirectly stifles Tibby from being able to return home to Heaven World in the first three gates and cure Tibby's mother in the fourth gate. Aside from the four gates, Paprika also runs the Challenge Train, with his titular levels being by far the most difficult of the lot, as well as the Perfect Campaigns, a series staple where the player has to clear a level without making any mistakes whatsoever. Paprika displays a decent amount of schadenfreude throughout the game, enjoying seeing the player empty their pockets while struggling to complete the challenges at the gates and Challenge Train, though is willing to concede and congratulate the player whenever they do succeed, rewarding them with Flow Balls to purchase more Rhythm Games each time.
Is he magnificent?
This, admittedly, is the part where I think his position as an MB may be compromised. Though Paprika is very much a challenge lover, managing the Challenge Train and Perfect Campaigns, his worst crimes don't extend to anything illegal or morally bankrupt, and it's not made clear as to whether he is actively trying to stop Tibby from returning home and save his mother, or if he is just here to be a nuisance and stop the player's progress. Paprika at least seems to take his role as a gatekeeper and challenge giver more seriously, as his brothers tend to bicker amongst each other at the gates, allowing him to have more credibility. For what it's worth, I believe he's as magnificent as the series can afford, but it still may not be enough.
Too much of a bastard?
Absolutely not. Rhythm Heaven has about as low of a heinous standard as a video game setting can get, and Paprika just barely scrapes it at worst. This should not be an issue for the eldest Gatekeeper Brother.
Final Verdict
I'm not entirely sure on this. I think Paprika is the closest the series has to a Magnificent Bastard, so if he doesn't qualify, I doubt anybody else in the series does. What do you guys think?
Goku Black
Catwoman
Professor Gigachad
Catwoman no 1 and 2
Peter Clemenza.
Professor Gigachad
Paprika
So I have a rather unusual proposal, I am not fully sure how this will go but I thought I would at least give it a chance.
What's the Work?
TheAtlanticCraft is a youtube channel that primarily focuses on Minecraft content. He in the past did quite a few Minecraft song parodies. The ones we are specifically going to be taking a look at today are "Supernatural Mobs", "The Herobrine" and "All Hail Skull King", and what is basically the main character of the songs.
Who is the Skeleton King and what does he do?
The Skeleton King is like the name suggests a king of a ton of skeletons, as well as being the most powerful of all the Skeletons. As shown in the song "Supernatural Mobs", I should mention that he is the singer of this song, it is shown that he has created a castle that also functions as a fortress where he has carefully trained up an army of only the best Skeletons to protect against any invaders. The Skeletons are decked out with iron armor and diamond swords which would have taken a pretty massive mining operation to get all of that.
We see that the fortress is pretty effective as it manages to protect against an attack from, well I don't have a name for this group actually but they are like a collection of Minecraft players so I will just say the players. The players attack a second time and are more prepared so they manage to get past some of the Skeleton minions. However, the Skeleton using his speed, agility and skill is able to effortlessly take down the entire army of players attacking the castle.
In the next song "The Herobrine" the place of the Zombie King is attacked by Herobrine, the Zombie King's forces are getting overwhelmed so the Zombie King turns to the Skeleton King for help taking down Herobrine. The Skeleton leads his army along with the Zombie and Enderman King's army to fight against Herobrine. The Skeleton seems to use some sort of spell to make the Zombie King giant and using that is able to wear down Herobrine enough to the point where the Skeleton King is able to take down Herobrine by himself.
The last song "All Hail Skull King" takes place one year after this when the skeletons are celebrating their defeat over Herobrine along with the other mobs. We see how the Skeleton King was able to bring peace to all the mobs afterwards, after the death of the Zombie King. However, during the celebration, a meteor shows up and crashes on it and unfortunately, no follow-up was ever made.
Is he Magnificent?
I would say yes. Now obviously the format as a song does limit him somewhat but the Skeleton King shows quite a bit of intelligence and planning. He has carefully built up an army to protect against invaders which we see is very successful. The Skeleton King is certainly not passive as well he directly manages to kill every single one of the invading players. He also manages to take down Herobrine who is established to be very powerful himself which is an incredibly impressive feat.
Is he a Bastard?
Well, he is still the titular Evil Overlord of the series running an entire kingdom full of evil mobs, and the songs fully treat him as the villain. He is likely responsible for some pretty awful things and we see that his method of building up an army involves getting some of the Skeletons killed as they fight each other in direct combat.
He also personally kills multiple players and his army gets even more killed, just to say in the context the mobs are the villains while the players are the heroes. He also gets one of his allies The Zombie King killed in order to take down Herobrine as an added plus. The Skeleton King's motives are also more based on trying to protect his own power with how much he talks about his thone.
However, The Skeleton King isn't anywhere near too much of a bastard in fact he is pretty tame for a Evil Overlord. He only really seems to kill people who are attacking him. The songs put way more emphasis on just how awesome he is rather than how much of an evil character he is.
Overall?
I guess a yes, I would be open to counterarguments but I don't see a reason why he can't count.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure to Paprika and the Skeleton King.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Catwoman, Paprika and the Skeleton King.
Alright, gonna keep this one short and sweet. Sometime back we put up Sandaaru from Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger and I was given the opportunity by the OP to review if I found a concern, now watching through his episodes I do.
His entry:
- Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger: Seventh Spear, Sandaaru is the cunning and brutally efficient second-in-command of Jakanja. Taking command of the Seven Dark Spears upon his arrival, Sandaaru successfully tricks the Hurricanegers into breaking the seal on Raging Arrow. To obtain its companion artifact, Sandaaru has Madogi control the Hurricanegers into attacking Kagura to make her feel sorrow, weakening the seal on the Grieving Bow medal and allowing him to take it from her. Anticipating that Tau Zant plans to dispose of him, Sandaaru waits for his boss to assume his Ultimate Form and invoke "It" to remake the universe, before backstabbing him and hijacking the plan for himself. Moving to swiftly eliminate the remaining Ninja Sentai, Sandaaru is only defeated when the Gouraigers sacrifice Gouraijin to finally destroy him.
His EP.
Big concern number one... it was posited Sandaaru is not a sadist and that his "omnicidal" goal wasn't elaborated on much. Jumping right to the end of his arc he loses the final battle because he's stopping to laugh at how "It" will unmake reality—something he indicates he knew was Tau Zant's plan all along—and is basking in the mass death he's about to cause before ruling the next universe. This results in him being jumped by the ninjas' ally and raging in disbelief at his captivity before he's skewered. He does calm down as he's dying but it's to mock the pointlessness of his death when he's set off It to unmake everything and we get lengthy shots of the world coming apart thanks to his machinations.
I've got other worries too, namely his manipulations largely consist of realizing the Raging Arrow reacts to the Hurricanegers' anger and... uses it to sap their energy, not exactly high level plotting.
His hand stringing along the Jakanja doesn't impress much either when they and Tau Zant are some of the most gullible villains put to screen and some are so childish his ploys almost just come across as mean spirited, like driving the one who falls in love with him to insanity.
My big sticking point is his end feels like the send off for Gilles de Rais from Rage of Bahamut: Genesis, who is so distracted by getting to watch the dragon kill everything he leaves himself open to attack and their deaths are pretty well a one-to-one. I think that alone is enough to disqualify him to me honestly and he's got bits of flair towards nastiness—the planets he destroyed himself definitely were populated—that I think this warrants more of a talk.
to Catwoman, Paprika, and Skeleton King. Anyway here is my writeup.
Criminal Case’s "The Ghost of Grimsborough": On the verge of bankruptcy, the wealthy Patrck Rufio plots a scheme to regain his wealth. He hires Artist Wilhelm Moss to create a portrait of the Mad Pilgrim who has a supposed curse that whoever tries to paint him dies. He sends letters to him claiming to be the Mad Pilgrim which fooled Moss. Patrick would then kill Moss by throwing a neurotoxin ampoule into his art room as he was finishing the painting, making it look like Moss fell victim to the curse and making the painting valuable. When the police arrived, they were stumped by the murder which wasn’t helped that they couldn’t figure out the how Moss died. Patrick also manages to show his skills by brushing off a suspiciously buried logbook as a prank and trying to scare the GBPD without being caught. When caught, he shows respect towards the player and admits that he planned on selling the copy by claiming it was an original with the intent to make a fortune. Patrick takes his defeat in stride, simply stating that his life sentence was a fair trade for the creation of a masterpiece.
Add to the drafts link in my signature. Also mind trimming it a bit? If not I can help.
Blazing Larvesta
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not terribly familiar with the franchise, but based off of what you said, yeah. Cut Sandaaru. He seems too heinous and petty to be considered for this trope to me.
Edited by Blazing_Larvesta on Jul 27th 2022 at 12:31:54 PM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Cut yet another “crossover” who turns out to be too much of a monster.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
While I'm at it anyone who's watched through have an opinion on "It"/the Evil Will itself for CM? It's quite sadistic, omnicidal itself and has been gaming the villains for centuries because it wants to unmake the universe, I'm just not sure given it only speaks in the final episode and I'm not sure if it's got the personal cruelties of Tau and S.
Professor Gigachad
I am wondering if we should hear what ReddishGuy's counterarguments are first on Sandaaru.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 27th 2022 at 12:40:48 PM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Blazing Larvesta
You should take that to the Complete Monster thread instead.
I know but since many people use both threads it's quite common for us to pose questions to fellow viewers on one or the other.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I say go for it.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Woagh
to Paprika and the Skeleton King.
Cut Sandaaru.
So I noticed that nobody claimed the new Kao the Kangaroo game. Anyone mind if I discuss it real quick?
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jul 27th 2022 at 12:59:29 PM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
43110 has made his arguments against Sandaaru. Here are my responses.
1. Planet destroying isn't something that really gets played for horror in most Sentai series. 99% of the time it's just "look how dangerous this new villain is, he destroyed entire planets." Sandaaru has destroyed populated planets yes, but that doesn't make him any worse than your average Monster of the Week in Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger, and his planet destroying isn't elaborated enough to make it out to be a really terrible thing.
2. His final words are delivered in a more somber tone and as a statement of fact rather than a gloat. At most you could say it's a bit of a taunt to the Hurricanegers that they can't stop what's coming, but he's not gloating in the destruction of the universe, he's just saying what's going to happen.
3. I find comparing his death to Gilles de Rais to be a bit of a stretch. At most Sandaaru fell victim to the trope of "letting the heroes talk too long while not doing anything" which is pretty common in Sentai. His death is more due to the fact that he wasn't expecting the Gouraigers to sacrifice themselves.
4. Yeah Sandaaru is more of an opportunist than a long term planner (he is based on Char after all), but he is good at coming up with strategies on a short timetable. He's able to persuade the Seven Dark Spears to work together and organize them into an effective team against the Earth ninjas almost immediately after his arrival, his eliminations of Sargain and Satarakura also required him thinking ahead and waiting for the right chance to take both of them, his elimination of Satarakura in particular stands out because he managed to destroy both him and Shurikenger while doing so, and he was also able to uncover information about Gozen-sama and come up with a multi-step plan to obtain the Grieving Bow from in a particularly short time-span. Is he the most intricate planner in the franchise? No. Is he a good on-the-fly planner? Yes, and we've approved candidates with simpler plans than Sandaaru's, see the Captain from Hellsing.
Just imagine something here.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Edit: Nevermind stupid question.
Edited by Bullman on Jul 27th 2022 at 3:08:59 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
1. I've gotta disagree when he sets "It" upon the world at the end of the series and we see debris falling on people, even if some turn out to be okay later they're presented as dead, it's not for lack of trying on Sandaaru's part and it's played quite heart-wrenchingly for the heroes. It was said during his initial debate we didn't know if the planets he destroyed were populated or not so I felt it pertinent to bring up.
2. Again I've gotta disagree when he was just laughing for a good minute at the destruction he's about to bring in and caps off his finale with "Oh well, you'll be joining me soon."
3. Both objectively start cackling madly while they're trying to end the world and both wind up mortally wounded by doing so. I'm going to be holding on to this point pretty tightly.
4. I don't take much issue with him being an opportunist, again it's that the Seven Spears are fairly easy to manipulate and come across as quite dim and childish. If he were just an opportunist? Cool, no problem but I'd appreciate him using pawns of a high caliber.
I think our big point of disagreement is going to land in if his final moments come across as just being assured of victory or if it was more of a smug laughter. I'm leaning on the latter, you the former and I just wanted some of this cleared up since I feel there's a bit more to cover with him.
@ Dood, Go for it!
Edited by 43110 on Jul 27th 2022 at 4:31:54 AM
Yes to Clemenza.
Now on to my other Catwoman.
What is the work?
Catwoman: Hunted is a animated film that is loosely connected to Young Justice through Broad Strokes and stars Elizabeth Gillies as Catwoman . It follows Catwoman as she is caught up in Interpol's quest to take down Leviathan after a heist gone. It's needles to say not a very good film with nonsensical twists and unfunny humor, but it's Catwoman counts easily so here we go.
Who is Catwoman?
Selina Kyle is thief from Gotham City, who is introduced tricking Black Mask into taking her to Leviathan's party to steal the Cat's Eye Emerald and to do so has her cat Isis, set off the motion detectors so the people running security will shut it off, before sneaking into the vault and grabbing the Emerald. While Batwoman sets off the alarm in the vault, Selina manages escape the pursuing Leviathan agents using her cunning to take most of their cars out before being captured by Batwoman and Interpol, who make her an offer. You see Selina has been going sight seeing and has got warrants for her arrest in most countries, so they offer to give her a clean slate in exchange for her acting as a distraction while they use the Cat's Eye Emerald to track down Leviathan and their leader, Barbara Minerva. Selina agrees but when they are alone pretends to almost seduce Batwoman in order to steal the phone to check on Holly and they girls they take care of back in Gotham.
Dropping from the jet Interpol is using, Selina and Batwoman fight Cheshire and Nosferata l, with Catwoman revealing that she has purposefully built up an immunity to jellyfish poison due a previous fight with Cheshire and even steals her sword. When face to face with the main members of Leviathan Selina takes on several samurai and even defeats the more physically strong Tobias Whale, by both getter out his crushing hold through blades hidden in her shoe and then taking him down for good throw a Groin Attack. Later when Interpol agents hold up their end of the bargain and wipe her record clean, Selina heads to Paris and steals some jewels, before she and Batwoman engage 52 League of Shadows members on the Eiffel Tower.
When facing Salomon Grundy alone, Selina leads him to a construction yard where she uses dynamite to blow him up and later tricks Cheatah into fallowing her on to a high ledge and drop her off to be impaled by metal poles. This is where the big twist comes. You see it's revealed that almost all of the events of this film, from all the warrants for her arrest to her heist going wrong to interpol using her as bait was Catwoman's plan. Barbara was trafficking girls in Sochi and Catwoman had rescued them. Those girls she was checking up on where the ones she rescued and so she concocted an elaborate scheme to both take down Barbara for revenge and get enough money to make sure her girls will always be safe. The film ends with the reveal that Selina stole the Cat's Eye Emerald and is making her way back to Gotham, but is first making a quick stop in London in order to "Pick up a few things from the Tower".
Smart? Charming? Can she think on her feet?
Yes she is incredibly smart at hand to hand combat and skillfully manipulates both Interpol agents and Leviathan in order to get revenge on Barbara and actually steal the priceless emerald that she wanted all in one go. She is crazy prepared, making herself immune to Cheshire's poison attack and having concealed weapons on her to get her off tight spots. She is also quick on her feet as shown during the car chase where she uses her wits to take out each car on the fly.
Bitch? Too much?
She is a cat burglar who has little problem manipulating Kate's feelings for her to her benefit or causing enemy cars to off a cliff. While yes she is trying to stop a human trafficking piece of scum, Selina is still a thief and even when she gets the priceless emerald that she needs to help her girls, still plans to steal the Royal Jewels from the Tower of London for little reason other than thrill.
Conclusion?
I am going with a yes. Bad movie but a good keeper in my opinion.
Edited by Bullman on Jul 27th 2022 at 12:13:20 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread