Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
Just checked Inside Out and I'm not sure if it's even worth keeping. While I haven't seen Inside Out yet (I totally want to though), I don't think I have to for this. Most the entries on the page are Fridge Horror and/or don't convey the audience reaction well. Only 2 entries (Riley's Breakdown and Jangles the Clown) feel valid and even those have natter attached to them. Someone please give their 2 cents on the matter.
I still think trying to clean Gravity Falls is at least worth giving a good try ...
Coffeenix! (She/Her)
Sorry to derail, just had a question.
Are YMMV items allowed to be potholed on the main page? Posting in this thread because the image caption for Popee the Performer has a Nightmare Fuel pothole. There's also a pothole for WDYMIFK in the description.
Sandbox help wanted.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Nope, no YMMV potholes on main unless it's somehow in-universe, like if it's discussed.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Coffeenix! (She/Her)
Got rid of the potholes.
EDIT: Re-reading my post, I think I jumped the gun and took things too seriously. I fixed it now.
Edited by RainbowPumpqueen on Apr 25th 2021 at 7:05:33 PM
Sandbox help wanted.
This was on the YMMV page for Death Battle Arena, a fanfic that takes all the participants of ''DEATH BATTLE! and act as if they are in an actual fighting game:
- Carnage is every bit the bloodthirsty monster he is in his home universe. In his intro quotes alone, he gleefully decides to vivisect Zitz, threatens to tear the heads off the ponies, expresses interest in eating Iron Man and War Machine because he enjoys how crunchy the exterior is, treats Ganon himself as basic livestock to be slaughtered, treats Doomsday as an experiment to see just how much he can live through, assures Smokey that he has no interest in fires simply because they don't leave enough of a mess for his liking and then decides to slaughter all the creatures in his woods upon winning, gleefully reminisces on torturing and killing his mother's dog upon meeting McGruff and comments on how much he loves to hear their agonized squeals and yelps as they die, decides he wants to take the infinity gauntlet from Thanos and use it for himself, threatens to make sushi from Aquaman and Namor, sees Widowmaker as french cuisine, expresses a love of children because he likes to hear them scream when he fights Shazam, expresses interest in tasting all of Ben 10's aliens, condescendingly reassures Weiss and Mitsuru for their respective father problems in the most disturbing way imaginable, assures Ghost Rider his only regrets not killing his victims faster, expresses a love of war for the bloodshed upon defeating Kratos, gleefully chants 'rip and tear' after beating Doomguy, is pleased that Deadpool and Lobo don't die because he can torture them for as long as he wants, decides hell sounds like his ideal place after beating Dante, cruelly mocks Zero for Iris' death and lack of soul, is stated to have torn Pit's wings off in his outro towards him, decides to forsake taking the Mask from Stanley Ipkiss and just wear his face instead, and falls in love with Esdeath for her own psychotic behaviour, a sentiment he shows by dismembering her if his outro quote is anything to go by. His fighting style is a vicious rushdown type, his rival cutscene with Lucy has the two of them sadistically massacring an asylum full of inmates, and his ending has him spreading his symbiote across the multiverse, watching gleefully as it falls into the hands of bloodthirsty murderers like himself. Not to mention he has a tendency to laugh like a madman...
While Carnage is definitely one of the more disturbing characters on the list, the intro quotes section seems incredibly bloated and reads more like a List of Transgressions. Any suggestions on shortening it?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Wow, that example is hard to read. Talk about Wall of Text. I'm not familiar with this fanfic, but I'd suggest maybe splitting it into individual bullet points? Though if you do that, each of them will be lacking in context. So maybe it'd be better to just cut the example entirely.
Oh, and all of the other examples on that page are simple scene summaries:
- After defeating the Mastermind, Dracula made the tower in his image and plans to block out the sun so he can wipe out humanity without interruption.
- Similarly, Namor's ending has him flooding the entire world to kill off the land dwellers so his people can reign supreme.
- Darkseid uses the tower to spread the Anti-life throughout the whole Multiverse.
EDIT: Right after posting this, I decided to take a look at Death Battle Arena. Turns out, most of the example are just based on Carnage saying quotes before a fight. I heavily doubt that anyone will get nightmares from this. Reiterating my suggestion to cut all of these examples.
Edited by Zuxtron on Apr 26th 2021 at 12:18:40 PM
KIRBY CAR
This is on YMMV.The Loud House:
- Nightmare Fuel:
- "Teacher's Union": After Coach Pacowski's date with Mrs. Johnson goes badly, Lincoln and Clyde admit to him it was because of their meddling that it happened. How does Coach respond? By threatening to rip them to pieces, prompting Lincoln and Clyde to run for their lives, with the coach chasing after them.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That entry reads like a classic comedy chase. It's not telling people who haven't seen the work what's so nightmarish about it. Gratuitous emphasis on the reference to the threat to rip them pieces doesn't make it any less ZCE.
If it's a keeper, it'll need a rewrite to clarify that. It's just a scene summary right now. An ambiguous one, considering that I can't tell if the chase is serious or played for comedy.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Agreed. I've heard that apparently, The Loud House's pages have problems with people trying to make the show sound Darker and Edgier than it really is, including shoehorned Nightmare Fuel (which has been cleaned up in the past). You're right that the example does not do anything to explain why it's scary rather than funny.
I'd say cut the example, and on the off-chance that it really is scary enough, someone else can rewrite it from scratch.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I've never seen the show, but the entry's pothole to Unstoppable Rage makes it sound like whoever wrote it is acting as though he literally meant he'd tear them limb from limb instead of using the phrase "rip them to pieces" figuratively, so I agree that it's trying to make the show sound dark and edgy.
As for it sounding like a typical comedy chase scene, I'd hate to see how someone scared by a one-off chase scene would react to the Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner cartoons.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 27th 2021 at 2:35:24 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Bringing up the following examples from Miami Vice:
- Nightmare Fuel: The start of the episode "Honor amongst Thieves" (Season 5 episode 16) is horrifying.
- The Halloween Episode "Shadow in the Dark" is pure nightmare fuel, as Crockett descends in to madness trying to catch a cat burglar. In the end, it turns out It Was All A Dream... or was it?
Very Spooky
Both ZCEs.
Peeks from Under Rocks
NightmareFuel.Girls Und Panzer is a significant mess:
- A whole "Meta" folder —spoilered out— that covers a Guro fanfic manga (listed as Hentai if you choose to google for it, possibly we shouldn't be troping it at all?)
- Lots of entries that might be more Fridge Logic, except that the broader source material has handwavium explanations as to why it's not as dangerous as it looks.
The two points that I'm a little less certain on are this:
- For some people, the unsettling characters' facial expressions in Ribbon Warrior that can sometimes delves into Nightmare Face territory, Shizuka is especially guilty of this.
- And speaking of Shizuka, she's easily one of the most unhinged and disturbing characters in Girls und Panzer franchise, a Bushido-fanatic Loony Fan with Blue-and-Orange Morality who will stop at nothing to achieve a victory. To the point that she's willing to drive her tankette through the crowds of spectators, endangering their lives and at one point even outrightly commit an arson on neighbourhood houses. Even Erika thinks that she's gone too far with the last one.
Aside from formatting issues, is this salvageable?
And also some —poorly formatted— notes about how Miho has nightmares/flashbacks in-universe about tanks trapped under water due to two traumatic events in her backstory. Not sure what to do with that - the really horrifying thing there is that her family's sport philosophy requires that they prioritize winning over helping their own team-mates, to the point of attacking an opponent's tank that has fallen out of line to help Friendly Enemy style.
Is anything on that page worth saving, or should I just put an incendiary round in the whole thing, Nishizumi-Senpai?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
DEFINITELY NUKE THAT WHOLE META FOLDER WITH NO HESITATION. I mean, even if it wasn't about guro hentai, it still wouldn't be allowed because it's about a fan work, and the page is about the official anime.
I don't know enough about the anime to comment on the examples you've mentioned, but I can say that all of the other examples on that page are bad and can safely be cut.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Also, I want to take a look at NightmareFuel.Friday Night Funkin, namely these two examples:
- Week 6 may seem like a sickeningly fluffy dating sim rip at first glance, but its opponent, The Senpai, has some very dark revelations that flip the whole Week, and possibly the game itself on its head.
- The Senpai starts out like an average gentleman Bishōnen - complete with Bishie Sparkle and several girls head over heels for him - challenging you for your girlfriend in "A serenade between gentlemen." Once the scene for his second song loads up, you're treated to a sudden sound effect akin to taking damage in an old school RPG, followed by The Senpai looking absolutely furious. His entourage of ladies also change their expressions from gawking to looking on in shock and disgust. The Senpai's Mood Whiplash of switching from a cushy pretty boy persona to being crude and abrasive over losing just one song is jarring enough to catch many people off guard.
- Week 6's third song, "Thorns", opens on a red void before fading in The Senpai's silhouette. We see and hear his bones twisting and cracking as he grunts in pain until light erupts from his mouth and eyes as his face bursts open, revealing a crimson will-o-wisp with a startlingly human-looking face. The school's courtyard warps into a much more dark and foreboding background: the schoolgirls are gone, the sakura trees are void of leaves, and everything is a dark bluish-purple. "Spirit" then reveals he was trapped into the game by Daddy Dearest, that he is not the only one to suffer this fate, and he's going to take revenge... by taking Boyfriend's body, who keep in mind is completely innocent in all this.
For this one, I think the last bullet point (Thorns) is probably keepable. But the second one... well, he looks like this
◊ during the song. He just looks mildly annoyed. Definitely a major overreaction to call this Nightmare Fuel.
- Taking a break from the supernatural horror (well, for the most part), Week 7 features The Boyfriend and The Girlfriend sneaking into a war zone being occupied by The Tankmen, and summarily being captured. While in this setting they're no longer post-apocalyptic military remnants, they certainly act as barbaric as that would imply. The entire week is the Boyfriend being essentially forced to perform for the amusement of a group of gun-toting maniacs while The Girlfriend is held at gunpoint, and John Captain makes no effort to hide the fact that win or lose, he's just gonna have them gunned down on the spot the moment he stops having fun... which takes all of two songs.
Captain: God. Effing. Dammit. Well played, you little shit. But this is war! And in war, people DIE! Men, get ready to fire! Sorry, no prom for you this year! HAHAHA!
- And before he can give the kill order, Pico swoops in to save the day... by pistol-whipping an unnamed soldier so hard his face caves in, then blowing the other soldier who may or may not be Steve's brains out in typically brutal fashion. Perhaps the most distressing part is that in between the two events, we get a brief hint that the Girlfriend's Dissonant Serenity isn't simply due to her being stupid... but because given her demonic heritage, she could have easily taken care of the soldiers all by herself, and the way she gets a red Twinkle in the Eye while her skin briefly gains a purple tinge heavily implies she was this close to dropping her facade.
Both of these are exaggerations. I really can't imagine anyone actually having nightmares about the Tankman since he never actually hurts anyone on-screen, instead mainly just making funny threats. As for the second bullet point, Pico's intervention is really more of an Awesome Moment, and is no more gruesome than your average shooting game. The Girlfriend almost going demonic is really not that bad either, since A) it doesn't actually happen, and B) if it did happen, it would have been in self-defense.
I have a feeling the Week 7 stuff was only added to the NF page to pad the page out
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Alright, I removed it. What about the Week 6 stuff? I really think that the second song's scariness pales in comparison to the third one, so it's not worth listing here.
I say remove the "Roses" example, since while it can certainly surprise players, his face, the sheer Mood Whiplash, and the background girls' reaction makes it more funny than anything. "Thorns" should definitely stay though as the start of the battle genuinely is disturbing as well as The Spirit.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Alright, removed that too. I'm certain that absolutely no one is having nightmares about "Roses", because even if someone did happen to find it scary (which I doubt), their nightmares would still be about "Thorns" since it happens immediately afterwards and is infinitely scarier.
Is this YMMV.Bean example kosher?
- The close-up of the Whistler's Mother's face as it melts into a bubbly mess after Bean cleaning it with paint thinner, combined with the apocalyptic background theme, are quite scary. It perfectly captures the "Oh, Crap!" feeling one gets from realizing they've just made a catastrophic and irreparable mistake.
Edited by BigJimbo on Apr 30th 2021 at 11:15:50 AM
Obsessively adds images to character pages.
I'm actually embarrassed that someone made an entry for Tankman.
"Unite GUN/BAZOOKA/LAUNCHER/TANK!"
Peeks from Under Rocks
For clarity, if we're down to one or two examples, do they still merit their own page, or do they get moved to YMMV?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I typically have them move to the YMMV page, but I'm not sure there's ever been a proper answer.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Same here. My instinct would be to move them to YMMV and cut the page for being a stub.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
ZCE.
back lol