Calling all Classic Film Lovers!

...That's a very good question, I never thought about that aspect.

Maybe they are one of those middle of nowhere towns that are so poor and small that they aren't even kept tracl of?

It was the Sengoku Period, when all those feudal lords were constantly at war with each other. Borders were constantly being redrawn, bandits were everywhere — there's a good reason it lines up so well with the Wild West.

I think the idea is partly that the bandits are being deliberately drawn as monsters, but there's also a desperation to it — the bandits can't just pick up and leave, because other bandits have already staked their claim elsewhere, to say nothing of actual warlords and their roving armies, ronin, etc. They've already lost a lot men not to get something for their trouble. Sunk cost fallacy, and the bandit chief has to worry about looking weak too. Plus if the villagers are that close to starving, the bandits probably aren't far off.

Edited by Unsung on Dec 24th 2018 at 6:17:21 AM

Gonna watch The Magnificent Seven now. I did that with Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, so why not.

Edited by dRoy on Dec 25th 2018 at 4:12:35 AM

I watched Rio Bravo again. Very nice film. I just noticed how the main girl doesn't have a name, nor is asked her name. They barely call her Feathers (after her scarf) once or maybe twice, and she is "the girl" or "you" the rest of the time.

I made a separate page for the Laurel and Hardy version of Babes in Toyland. I'll clean it up in a little bit. Stan and Ollie sure were funny.

Watched Guys and Dolls. Jean Simmons and Marlon Brando did their own singing, and they were good. And I will fite u if you argue.

Frank Sinatra still woulda done it better as Sky Masterson. *puts her dukes up*

I believe Marlon Brando went on record as saying his entire performance in Guys and Dolls was done with editing. They took all his takes singing the songs and pieced together the parts where he actually hit the right notes. Of course in our brave new world they'd just Auto Tune the shit out of him like they did for poor Emma Watson in Beauty and the Beast.

The "save scumming" method sounds a whole lot better than autotune, if the studio refuses to just dub the performer already.

I think one way that older musicals were better is that they had the good sense to dub the actors who couldn't sing very well. Just let Emma Watson look lovely and charming in her musical like Natalie Wood was in hers and hire someone else to sing the songs.

So I watched The Magnificent Seven. Firstly, the bads:

• Chico just doesn't have Kikuchiyo's energy, which in my opinion was one of the pillars of Seven Samurai as a whole. As such, Chico's railing at farmers and gunmen alike felt very weak.
• I also felt the battles lacked the details and grittiness of battle. I really loved the strategical planning in Samurai, such as moving farmers with spears to use defeat in detail against the bandits.
• In the similar line, I couldn't help but feel that the ending was a little bit rushed. I mean, come on no Battle in the Rain? Also, I think the graves of sword shot in the Samurai was really awesome and it's a shame that Magnificent didn't replicate better. Could've shown kids putting flowers on the graves and then pan the camera to show the gunmen leaving or something.

With that said!

I actually prefer The Magnificent Seven over Seven Samurai, by a long shot. Here are my reasons.

• Although I'm dissatisfied by the ending a little bit, all in all I find the pacing of MS so much better. In fact, at least among what I watched it's the western movie with the best pacing. This is pretty much the first classical western movie (according to the definitions in this thread) that I watched in one sitting. Yes, even with the Dollars Trilogy movies, I got distracted. XP
• What the battle scenes lack in grittiness and complexities, in comparison to SS, the battle makes it up and then some more by being so damn stylish. The Seven going all Avengers on the bandits in the first big battle is now one of my all time favorite gunfights period. Actually in this regards I freaking love Chico because of his either funny or audacious actions.
• Goddamn this movie is loaded with quotable and awesome lines, from beginning to the end. It's as if this movie simply can't go ten minutes without giving good quotes. In particular, every single line spoken in the first gunfight, I mean holy shit.
• Speaking of which, freaking Calvera. He has so many qualities that make him a great villain in my opinion. I love that he either drops great quotes or prompts the Seven to do so. He's a vastly superior version of the nameless and almost wimpy bandit chief in the Seven Samurai.
• Lastly, one of the most important aspect of Samurai was deconstruction of warriors and I feel that Magnificent adapted that part perfectly. Bonus points for even portraying PTSD with the case of Lee. I am quite a sucker for those kinds of things, due to my interest in abnormal psychology and my time in military.

Despite its flaws, I think ultimately The Magnificent Seven's strengths make up for them.

Therefore, I give it four stars out of four.

Up next, The Searchers, and then probably either Psycho or Cat Ballou.

It is fair to like a film better for such a reason. I just wanted to add that whenever you watch a foreign film in a language that you are not fluent with (such as Japanese), there won't be so many quotes that you find memorable.

I still have not seen The Magnificent Seven. But I think that might be the most prominent case ever of an original and a remake that are both in the pantheon of great movies. La Chienne and Scarlet Street come to mind but those works, while excellent, certainly aren't landmarks like Seven Samurai and The Magnificent Seven.

Finally brought myself to watch The Searchers.

Undoubtedly a great film, but the greatest western ever? Eh...I don't know about critics, but certainly not for me. Personally, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly left a more lasting impact on me.

Credit to where it's due: The character arcs of Ethan and Martin is intensive and cinematography is just superb. The opening and ending shot by themselves are something as well.

Edited by dRoy on Dec 28th 2018 at 4:06:04 AM

Americans can't have an Italian film be the greatest ever. Also The Good, the Bad and the Ugly is part of these second-generation western films that no longer showed how brave the pioneers were.

On first watch I was really confused by The Searchers. It told us, with much authority, that native Americans were Always Chaotic Evil. This very site reads this as a deconstruction of the genre, but it is still hard to stomach.

I don't really have a favorite, but from the first era I especially remember Stagecoach and 3 Godfathers.

It doesn't. There's the character of Look, and however much Look might be problematic in our brave new woke world for other reasons, she certainly isn't Always Chaotic Evil. I think there's at least a suggestion in the movie that Natalie Wood's character doesn't want to leave all that much. And there's the actions of the white men, like massacring the village and the scene where Ethan kills buffalo with the express hope that it will leave the Indians to starve...there is a lot of Grey-and-Gray Morality in that movie. A lot.

As for Americans not being able to let an Italian film be best—well, I'm agnostic as to whether The Searchers is the best Western of all time. But French people think so, it seems.

Yeah, clearly the film shows that there are different tribes and factions among Native Americans, which I think is fairly balanced view.

And as for the best western...I must admit, I haven't actually watched nearly enough western movies to answer that. I haven't even watched Shane and High Noon, for instance.

In addition to those, I should also watch Cat Ballou, Red River, Stagecoach, among others.

The best western of all time, by my reckoning, would be Leone's goodbye to the genre Once Upon a Time in the West, which is just near-perfect. Silver medal would be The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, bronze The Great Silence, fourth place, fifth place Black God, White Devil.

The Searchers would be somewhere in the lower end of the top 10 after the rest of the Dollars Trilogy, the sequel to Black God, White Devil and Django.

I would however say the Searchers might be the best American western.

Edited by Gaon on Dec 28th 2018 at 6:26:40 AM

I was never all that impressed by The Searchers. As for better westerns, I'd say Stagecoach, Winchester '73, Johnny Guitar, The Man from Laramie, Ride Lonesome, Rio Bravo, and Hombre are all clearly superior. Outside of our timeframe, I'd say both Unforgiven and Django Unchained are better. And that's just movies that are unambiguously westerns – there are a lot of debatable cases such as The Treasure of the Sierra Madre , No Country for Old Men, and Hell or High Water.

Edited by TompaDompa on Dec 28th 2018 at 4:43:40 PM

I also forgot to mention A Bullet for the General and A Fistful of Dynamite, so The Searchers would miss the top 10 regardless, even if we don't take into account your (quite respectable) suggestions.

Yes, Unforgiven is thirty years out of our time frame but I would agree it would be a strong contender for best Western of all time.

My main problem with Winchester '73 was how Shelley Winters was nothing but eye candy. Lovely, lovely eye candy, but her character is pointless.

I admit...I always was drawn more to the kind of western which turned the "wild west" into some sort of fantasy world. Never really got into the more gritty ones, which are usually considered to be the good ones.

I've been trying to watch more Westerns since 2015...gah, the genre isn't really my thing!

All of the Western stuff I like really fits a different genre better - the Lone Ranger (superheroes), The Wild Wild West (Spy-Fi), Ride 'Em Cowboy (comedy), Way Out West (comedy), The Paleface (comedy), Calamity Jane (musical)...