Ambiguous Name: Violation Of Common Sense

Violation of Common Sense is described as doing something stupid or just something you wouldn't do in that situation, but being rewarded for doing it.

However, the name doesn't imply it's just that. It doesn't imply you have to do, it's worded as if it applied to ANYTHING that goes against everyday's logic (like horrible translation translating an action as its opposite, or character saying something that is just irrational and wouldn't happen in that universe.)

I've been trolled by the ambiguous name of this trope. Over. And over. And over.

edited 18th Feb '14 8:11:55 AM by PinkCelebi

"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"

I'm pretty sure this has been talked about already ... over and over and over.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

>last non-bot's post

>November 2010

Yeah.

It's February 2014, and nobody has fixed the trope it seems. Over three years should be enough to do something. But NOPE. We're on the Interwebz, this is the main logic here.

edited 18th Feb '14 9:00:46 AM by PinkCelebi

"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"

Is there any misuse in wicks? I agree that the name is awful but I like hard data.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Yes, one I wrote. (That's why it trolled me).

Check the Vietnamese Crystal entry, where it's more like what I described (because that's what I understood it as back then.

STUPID AMBIGUOUS NAME.

IT IMPLIED IT'S LIKE "wait what, how you have tea and not have tea" or "why would he expect a wild Pokémon to fight Falkner?"

And then I noticed the trope doesn't exactly describe that...

Now no idea what to do with that.)

edited 19th Feb '14 6:58:08 AM by PinkCelebi

"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"

What Septimus means is that you should probably perform a wick check on the wicks/examples to see the usage statistics.

Posting one example of misuse is probably insufficient.

Okay, I have already found few misuses and one unsure (unsure as in I can't say if it's misused or not without more information, since the example doesn't have any greater details).

I'll post the list once I am through everything.

edited 19th Feb '14 7:30:27 AM by PinkCelebi

"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"

I read it a few days ago, and I found that there were a lot (in my impression, not counted, so probably just a few) of examples which counted game logic as "common sense" and Real Life "common sense" as a violation of it. I'll see if I can find some later when I have more time.

Also, does "rewarding for suicidal behaviour" include giving achievements for such deaths?

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Off the top of my head, I'd say no, in most cases.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Part 1 of the list. Note that I am in process of starting D (I finished C the same day I started getting through stuff)

---

Misused: Ace Combat (in the headscratchers, someone mentions the squad's planes having bombs for a ceremonial flyby, and I don't think player is the entire squad or that he has a choice), That One Boss/Action (they mention Sonic 2's luck based mission that was made harder for the Game Gear, PLUS had smaller screen area to see things in), Bottomless Magazines (SWAT 4 - the infinite ammo trope is averted for the player and squadmates but not suspects - how is that "do stupid thing and get rewarded"?), Broken Bridge (Phantasy Star IV - there's a boss you can't beat and you have to run away from it, an action that's otherwise impossible in a boss fight. That's more like Guide Dang It! or "do something you couldn't do earlier" instead of "do something stupid"), Cash-Cow Franchise (Seth Green's example, where it is said that he apparently said that he cancelled one of his shows, despite it performing well in ratings), Convection, Schmonvection (Minecraft's example, an Alpha update made a stupid thing ruin players' houses and just that), Crippling Overspecialization (Battle Tech - the part about "having army be superartillery and be utterly useless at short range" links to common sense, which isn't exactly what would the trope imply),

Unsure: Achievement Hunter (mentions that "basis of his loses were nonsensical" but I haven't watched that thing so can't judge from so few information), Age of Wonders (again, can't tell), Alter A.I.L.A. (the description doesn't mention any reward, you just apparently get yelled at), All in a Row (Ultima's example, the characters apparently just stand in a fireplace to show dedication, but is that player doing something? Rather not.), ASDF Movie - doesn't mention any example, it's just like "where to START?!", Videogame/Civilization (spearman beating tank sounds ridiculuos, but not sure in which way, since it could be interpretated as either), Crosshair Aware (Contra example; the crosshair for one boss's attack indicates a SAFE spot... not sure if it's misused or not)

Sounds-like-Stupidity Is the Only Option variant - Ace Combat, as well as the articles for #6 and Assault Horizon (you have to fly in the ridiculuos settings, part of Airstrike Impossible), Alan Wake (description of the trope implies you have to ignore the wall of doom and run the OPPOSITE of the direction you are supposed to), Action-Adventure Games (HAWX exampe - mission's objective forces you to ignore the demonic spiders), Airforce Delta (more ridiculos flying), Bomb Disposal (Star Wars Old Republic example - you have to kick a BOMB), Bomberman Generation ("Jump in the quicksand!" thing), Video Game/Braid (some puzzles require jumping into Spikes of Doom), Can You Survive the Zombie Apocalypse? (a gamebook; you have to be rather mean instead of nice in a rather bad situation), Console RPG Cliches The TV Tropes Version (the "Fair Play For Suckers Rule"), Contra (lol jumping on missiles?)

edited 20th Feb '14 6:15:10 AM by PinkCelebi

"Screw it, I AM going to enjoy this game!"

Ya know, we should really write an administrivia page for how to do a wick check.

You do it by checking and posting every third wick up to about 50 so we can get percentages for misuse and Zero Context Examples. An example of one I did.

Oh, excellent.

edited 20th Feb '14 6:54:23 AM by StarSword

We already have a page for it, actually: How to Do a Wick Check.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I went through the page again to see what's wrong there.

I'm unsure about the entire entry concerning "walking on really, really thin ledges", and other examples of just physics. That's something that's hard to do, but not necessarily against common sense. They're basically just leeway for what is common sense, so you don't have to be so exact. It's like, "OMG! You can walk with your centre of mass five centimetres (two inches) outside the ledge!" or any examples where you can one-shot kill someone with a shot in a non-vital organ.

I think those belong in Acceptable Breaks from Reality. Otherwise you can include just about any Video Game Physics examples (HP, hit boxes, jump height, experience, etc), and that's not what the trope is about. If it's a reasonable approximation of real physics it's not a violation of common sense.

Some examples I find doubtful:

• Removing your clothes in Police Quest leads to an instant Game Over. Which is understandable if you're out in a public place, but you're not even allowed to do so in the shower room. Even better, you're allowed to take a shower, but the game will make fun of you for doing so with your clothes on (but even then, removing your clothes right at that moment will still end the game.)

This is just an option to do something, with no benefit.

• As part of its gameplay mechanic, you can snipe enemies out of their vehicles in the PC Battlezone RTS/FPS remakes and their respective ports. Now imagine someone doing this RL to a marine driving a buggy or a hummer while raking them with machinegun fire to steal their hummer, drive it back to their base, and use it to wipe out said base. Whether far away or within spittin' distance. Yes, one of the chief gameplay mechanics IS a VOCS.

Shooting an enemy and stealing his equipment isn't exactly illogical.

• Imagine this in Battlefield 2: Your ally has just been shot by a 9K22 Tunguska. It fires 30mm rounds at a combined fire rate of about 4000 to 5000rpm. That's not even a heavy machine gun, that is two autocannons, firing high-explosive shells. They are supposed to be employed against armored targets. Somehow he is managing to call "Medic!" while an enemy tank drives several times over him. No worries though, you switch out your trusty defibrillator and aim at the bottom of his left shoe. One zap and he is back to fighting, with full health, of course.

Not so much a violation of common sense as somewhat wonky physics. Using what you have to try to heal an ally is reasonable. I'm pretty sure you don't really need to aim at the bottom of his left shoe either, nor that it's more effective than aiming properly. Him getting hit isn't a choice you have, so it's not relevant.

• One quest in MapleStory has an alien claiming his race is peaceful (when it's obviously not) and asking the player to steal files from Omega Sector. You can tell right off the bat he's lying and that he only wants the files to speed up his race's plans but if you do the quest anyway he'll reward you with 3 summoning items which can be used to grief.

Not so much lack of common sense as just evil.

• In Battlestar Galactica Online daily Assignments may ask you to go deep into enemy territory to scout, even though there could be high-level players capable of Curb Stomping you with ease. However, doing these missions is a good source of xp and currency.

That's just about taking a great risk for a great reward, which is reasonable. Common sense is about doing them if you think you can complete them.

• In Mario Party 9 when you land on a Bowser space you can get a reverse mini-game. Bowser will reward ten mini-stars to anyone who loses the mini-game first.

Common sense if you reverse rules for a game is that you win by losing.

• YOU JUMPED INTO A SWORD. YOU RETARD!

Other than being a poorly formatted example, it's just a special death message.

• Portal 2 has two achievements that require you to ignore all common sense. Early on in the game, GLaDOS coaxes you into a previously-solved test chamber as you're trying to escape. Later on, you can jump into a bottomless pit as the antagonist tries to (ridiculously) persuade you to jump. Both events will kill you if you comply as well as unlock achievements.
  • The latter even carries multiple achievements, based on when you jump, including the standard achievement for jumping into the pit, as well as an "All Girls Want Ponies" reference, if you jump when he's talking about how there's a pony farm at the bottom.

Just achievements. You still die.

• The little-known indie game Escape the Box has many, many, many death traps. Some are caused by failing to find the correct solution to a puzzle. Some are caused by doing utterly stupid things (like urinating on electrical power cables).

More like Press X to Die or something like that. You die.

• In Dwarf Fortress, a lot of Good Bad Bugs do horrible things to your common sense. For example: lowering a drawbridge onto something will not only destroy it, but obliterate it utterly, so that not even wreckage or a corpse is left behind (unless it's too big, in which case the drawbridge is destroyed instead). This makes it excellent for both fortress defence and garbage disposal, and has led to drawbridges being known as "Dwarven Atomsmashers".

Dropping a bridge on anything not large enough would normally cause it to go splat. It does. Other DF examples are correct, though. Melting away your own body fat to become immune to fire is one of the most hilarious abuses of video game logic ever.

• Blitzball from Final Fantasy X. [snip]

Probably some parts of that example that fits, but it's rather bloated. An underwater sport isn't really illogical if you can hold your breath for a long enough time.

• In Final Fantasy XIII, you'll fight Galenth Dysley in his Barthandelus form, which is That One Boss for almost everyone. You'll get a warning when he's about to use his strongest attack, which usually means death. What are you supposed to do? Heal and defend to try to survive? You'll probably die with his next attack. What you're supposed to do is keep hitting him. He's charging his attack, so hitting him enough makes him lose concentration (he backs down a bit when you deplete enough health) and his attack becomes...still powerful, but not an instant kill.
  • The last boss of Persona 3 FES's The Answer, Erebus, is a similar case. When he starts charging his most powerful attack, you have to hit him as hard as you can before he uses it, cancelling the attack after enough damage is dealt. If you decide to instead heal and raise your characters' defense, he'll probably crush your party in one hit with said attack.

Improper indention aside, common sense if you attack someone is that they will be disrupted. This is confusing video game logic for real logic, as well as being an opinion.

• Valkyrie Profile allows you to send some of your party members to Valhalla, which is essentially having them Put on a Bus. A nice way to get rid of inconsequential, weak party members, right? Actually, if you want to get the Golden Ending, you have to send Lucian, which is arguably the best fighter you have, and definitely very plot important.

Also confusing video game logic for real logic. In this case, getting the Golden Ending requires doing your job, and not be a min-maxer.

• Also a real life example as most flight simulators teach you that in order to get out of a stall (the situation when a plane loses enough speed and lift to start plummeting) is to forcefully point the nose downward and open the throttle all the way, it's to get enough air flowing under the wings and to speed up in order to pull out of the stall.

As a Real Life example, it is common sense. Well, if you know about physics.

• Just about any stunt from a Tony Hawk game that gets you lots of points would be suicidal even for professionals in real life. The Rule of Cool is king. Leap of Faith is especially famous despite not being nearly as stupid, crazy or fun as some of the later gaps.
  • Performing a McTwist over a helicopter between the roofs of two hotels. And if you don't quite make it... Good thing Death Is Cheap.

I'm not sure it counts to do dangerous stunts in a game about doing stunts.

• In the GBA Fire Emblem games, there's a cursed weapon called the Devil Axe. It's very powerful, but has a significant chance to cause the wielder to hurt themselves when attacking. This always applies, even if you're using it to break down a tree or a weak wall, making it possible to die fighting an inanimate object. There's an upside to it, though: The Devil Axe trains a character's Axe Proficiency sixteen times faster than a normal axe. If you can survive it, this makes training to unlock better axes ridiculously fast.

If you can accept that a magical axe hurts you, you can accept that it helps you gain stats. Cherry-picking where common sense fails is kind of odd.

• Zap Dramatic's games have a lot of these, which makes for a lot of unintentional hilarity.
  • From episode 1 of Ambition: the secretary, and a worker, sees Ted armed with a bomb around his waist. Their reaction? Well, it's quite an under-reaction to be blunt...
    • Most people would guess the best way to deal with a suicide bomber is to shoot him to death before he can do anything, but shooting Ted only makes him set off the detonator anyway—and not through any dead man's switch, but by simply being allowed to press the button after giving a Final Speech. You can't even get away with keeping the gun trained on Ted: The correct solution is to have Jim drop his gun (and his hat and glasses for some reason) and give in to all of Ted's demands without patronizing him.
  • In Episode 2, Yale scolds Ted (who still has the bomb strapped to himself) when he makes a comment about Helen. Let's just say that Yale is extremely lucky that Ted happens to be sympathetic towards him.
  • In Episode 3, the player must analyze Ted (who strapped a bomb to himself, then jumped out a window and landed in a mattress truck, mind you) and determine if he's sane or not. Despite all evidence to the contrary, he is.
  • The player can actually choose to do this in Episode 8. It's pretty obvious that punching Duke in the nose will result in a Game Over, but most people can't resist it because of both Duke's and Frank's reactions.

Most of this is just not following whatever line of thought the editor had. Though shooting someone does usually not result in immediate death, and if it doesn't, it's a great risk to shoot someone who intends to blow himself up.

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With the description "Sometimes they allow you to do something suicidally dangerous (or at least utterly pointless) and, far from forcing you to face the consequences of your actions, they reward you for this behavior", I think it's better to change the trope to Rewarding Stupidity.

This change makes the title more closely match the definition, but would wax most of the entries in the General folder as they're merely exploiting glitches rather than rewarding something stupid.

Any opinions about the examples I listed, or can I just remove them for being incorrect?

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Burn 'em. They're all Square Peg Round Trope.

For a baseline straight example, one quest in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind ("Pilgrimages of the Seven Graces") requires you to intentionally drown yourself in order to lower a force field (you get magically saved).

edited 14th Mar '14 10:58:52 AM by StarSword

It seems that most of the misuses of this trope are really using it to describe cases of Insane Troll Logic. For the moment I have put a "not to be confused with..." in the description of the latter trope.

edited 15th Mar '14 8:18:48 AM by needsanewhobby

Removed the ones I mentioned previously.

Just gotta note, my favourite on the page (which stayed) is the first Dwarf Fortress example, where you can boil off your skin and fat to become mostly immune to fire. Rocket Jumping looks positively sane in comparison.

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