Fix Up Example Indentation Wherever It Is

@crazysamaritan:

I have read Walkthrough Mode. The example that that page gives of the problem is very similar to Thread Mode, which is very much not the case with my current version of the Squishy Wizard example here.

What I am trying to do with the summary of the Wizard example is explain, in as concise of terms as I can manage, why the Wizard is the least survivable of the classes at low levels — crappy AC making wizards easy to hit even by the weakest of enemies, and low HP making it very likely that they will die upon getting hit, especially in earlier editions where Critical Existence Failure was the norm and getting one-shotted was a very real danger to low-level wizards.

If even this does not pass muster for avoiding Walkthrough Mode, then I truly do not know what you want in regards to this.

Here's what I currently have:

• Dungeons & Dragons:
  • The Wizard Character Class is the Trope Maker in regards to tabletop RPGs. Throughout the editions of D&D, the Wizard has the smallest pool of Hit Points of any playable class. They also start with little to no armor, and thus have the worst Armor Class of all starting Player Characters, making them easy to hit even by weaker enemies. This results in the Wizard being the least survivable of all PCs at low levels — their ease of being hit because of their AC combined with their low HP makes it incredibly easy for them to die, especially in earlier editions where Critical Existence Failure was the norm and it was very possible for a starting wizard to be a One-Hit-Point Wonder. This is balanced against the practically godlike power that the Wizard can achieve at high levels, provided that they can live long enough to reach that point.
  • Psions in 3rd and 3.5 Edition had the same problems with squishiness as the Wizard — not only did they have the lowest Hit Die like the Wizard, but they had no proficiency in armor whatsoever, making them quite fragile at low levels, again being made up for by how powerful their powers could get at high levels.
  • The Tyranny of Dragons adventure has Blagothkus, a cloud giant wizard. Compared to a typical cloud giant he has less health, lower Strength and Constitution, weaker saving throws, and less accurate melee attacks, in exchange for an arsenal of spells that can inflict high damage. Mind you, he's still a giant with superhuman levels of strength and durability, so his squishiness is relative.
  • The two species of arcane dragons are more magically powerful but much less physically robust than other dragons, dealing less damage with their physical attacks and possessing only a fraction of the hit points expected of their Challenge Rating.

Edited by Dravencour on Sep 13th 2022 at 3:29:41 AM

Also, I ended up looking at Critical Existence Failure, particularly the Card Games and Tabletop Games sections. And these sections need serious work with indentation and a whole lot of other factors to bring them up to proper code.

I'm not convinced this bullet on VG Myths belongs by itself:

• Running Gag:
  • Whenever a challenge requires waiting or not doing anything for a while, Gamechamp often recommends sitting back and drinking a latte.
  • During the Sonic 2 & Knuckles no directions run, she coined the term "lattelock" to describe the numerous situations that are nearly softlocks, differing only in that they can at least be escaped by letting the 10-minute timer run out so Knuckles dies.

The second one was originally added by ~Ultralight 4 as additional text on the first one, edited for grammar by us, then Ultralight changed it (definitely incorrectly) to a lone third-level bullet, then one last time to a second-level bullet once we explained that that wasn't allowed.

Does the second bullet stand alone, or should they be merged?

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

I was gonna say

but on second thought... is "lattelock" even a Running Gag? Just because a term is derived from a gag doesn't make its every use a gag. But even if it's not a Running Gag in and of itself, I think it could be kept merged onto the main bullet as an extension of the joke.

When I added the lattelock to the example I did so as an example of the latte running gag, and used more general text to describe it. When wingedgirlcat rewrote the grammar she also changed the context from explaining lattelock in a general sense to defining lattelock in the context of the Sonic 2 & Knuckles episode. I felt it should be an example of a running gag of the episode, like the Metroid episode with duck tape example further down.

However if you don't feel like it counts as a running gag than it should be delete, not merge back. As written, the lattelock is to specific to Sonic 2 & Knuckles to be useful example of the latte running gag, especially if it shows up again.

I would like to point out possible indentation errors in Trivia.Blinky Bill.

Under International Coproduction, I think the indentation is wrong as it references two different works (the 1993 animated series and the 2016 animated series).

The example provided:

• International Coproduction: All three seasons of the classic series were coproduced by Yoram Gross in Australia with WDR and EMTV of Germany.
  • In addition to this, the first season was also produced with the help of The BBC in the UK.
    • The 2015/16 reboot was coproduced by Yoram Gross (under its new name, Flying Bark Productions) and Belgian animation studio Studio 100.

The correct Intentation is as follows:

• International Coproduction:
  • All three seasons of the classic series were coproduced by Yoram Gross in Australia with WDR and EMTV of Germany. In addition to this, the first season was also produced with the help of The BBC in the UK.
  • The 2015/16 reboot was coproduced by Yoram Gross (under its new name, Flying Bark Productions) and Belgian animation studio Studio 100.

The Second bullet point refers to the first season of the first bullet point and can be safely merged into the first one.

Additionally, there is an error in No Export for You:

• No Export for You: The third season has never been dubbed or broadcast in Finland, unlike the first two seasons, which is strange considering the immense popularity of the series in the country.
  • The reboot as well as the un-reboot are not available in Malaysia, either via streaming services or over broadcast channels, as of 2021. The Yoram-Gross animated series aired in the country back in the early through mid-90s.

It should have been:

• No Export for You:
  • The third season has never been dubbed or broadcast in Finland, unlike the first two seasons.
  • The reboot as well as the un-reboot are not available in Malaysia, either via streaming services or over broadcast channels, as of 2021. The Yoram-Gross animated series aired in the country back in the early through mid-90s.

(There was also what I think is slight Natter in the Finland example?)

Lastly, under Talking To Himself:

• Talking To Himself: The first two seasons of the Yoram Gross series only had TWO voice actors (one male (Keith Scott), one female (Robyn Moore)).
  • The third season added more voice actors (notably Drew Forsythe and Sarah Aubrey).

I believe this should either be split into two different entries or merged into a single entry, given they referred to different seasons of the same show. I think there can be some liberties in the way the indentation is handled:

either:

• Talking To Himself: The first two seasons of the Yoram Gross series only had TWO voice actors (one male (Keith Scott), one female (Robyn Moore)). The third season added more voice actors (notably Drew Forsythe and Sarah Aubrey), but there were still shared VAs between the characters.

or:

• Talking To Himself:
  • The first two seasons of the Yoram Gross series only had TWO voice actors (one male (Keith Scott), one female (Robyn Moore)).
  • The third season added more voice actors (notably Drew Forsythe and Sarah Aubrey), but there were still shared VAs between the characters.

Edited by RAMChYLD on Oct 2nd 2022 at 7:35:28 AM

@Winged Cat Girl if they're referring to two different lets plays, then I think they deserve to be on different bullet points. But if they're referring to the same let's play, then I think it should be merged into a single bullet point?

The first one is referring to a running gag throughout all her videos. The second one is describing a specific evolution of the gag.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

@Winged Cat Girl Then I think you can merge into a single point if the second point is an evolution of the first. For example:

• Whenever a challenge requires waiting or not doing anything for a while, Gamechamp often recommends sitting back and drinking a latte. Later on in the series, during the Sonic 2 & Knuckles no directions run, she coined the term "lattelock" to describe the numerous situations that are nearly softlocks, differing only in that they can at least be escaped by letting the 10-minute timer run out so Knuckles dies.

All righty, did that.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

I've just spotted a potential Example Indentation error in the Sailor Animamates section in Characters.Sailor Moon Shadow Galactica:

• More than Mind Control: In Sailor Stars, exactly how much of the evilness of the Animamates' actions is due to the bracelets is up for debate. When Tin Nyanko has one removed, she's caught switching between begging someone to stop her and gleefully trying to murder everyone. Considering Sailors Uranus and Neptune were in total control of themselves while wearing the bracelets, the leading interpretation is that the bracelets might only be influencing a person depending on the need for it.
  • When Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune betray Sailor Galaxia, Galaxia outright states that she never thought that there was someone that could resist her bracelets' control, which implies Uranus and Neptune did something Beyond the Impossible. However, the circumstances that led Sailor Tin Nyanko to become a Sailor Animamate are unknown, and it's also not known if Sailor Iron Mouse, Sailor Aluminum Siren and Sailor Lead Crow were also brainwashed and used to be good Sailor Guardians or if they allied with Galaxia willingly.

Thoughts on how to fix this?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

That sounds speculative. Assuming it's not and the work presents it that way, the simplest solution is to (I think) move the second bullet to the end of the first.

For what it's worth, I removed it as Speculative Troping. Also, I found this example from Trivia.One Piece:

• Creator's Apathy: Confirmed in an interview with Mark Kirk, a former vice president at 4Kids who knew what happened, but didn't have anything to lose by making it public. To this day, no one has disputed what Kirk said.
  • Here's the story - Contrary to popular rumors by fans and the company's naysayers, 4Kids never actively sought to acquire the show. The real reason it landed in their hands was because Toei Animation desperately wanted to sell a license for their smash-hit cartoon to anyone who could air it on American TV.^*  At that point, One Piece had been on the air in Japan for over four years, and had recently hit in Europe and Asia, but nobody in North America seemed to want it.^*  It was revealed in a DVD commentary that Funimation was interested in the show prior to 4Kids getting the license, but they passed on it due to cost or, more likely, were denied it due to their inability to guarantee Toei a TV airing (their contentious dub of Dragon Ball Z also possibly played a role as Toei were reportedly unhappy with several of the changes made and feared the same thing happening with One Piece). Thus, when 4Kids paid a visit to Toei with the intention of licensing Ultimate Muscle and Magical DoReMi, they wound up being handed the One Piece rights in addition to the two series they were shopping for. They never watched a single episode before agreeing to the deal, and as the masters rolled in, they became increasingly shocked at what they'd gotten themselves into – Toei's infamous Executive Meddling over the series couldn't have helped.^†  Funimation have also mentioned this aspect of Toei in their commentaries. Notably, that Toei gets veto power over everything, and that they forced Funimation to cast a woman as Luffy, when they would have much rather cast a man. The result of all this was the need for episodes to be severely edited down just to be allowed to air on network TV at all due to strict FCC regulations, which led to quite possibly the most notorious anime Macekre of all time.

I think we can try revising and merging the content into a single example.

Edited by gjjones on Oct 7th 2022 at 12:03:44 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I'm noticing a particular indentation issue with YMMV.The Oregon Trail, under Memetic Mutation.

• Memetic Mutation: You have died of dysentery.
  • However, you were only able to carry 100 pounds back to the wagon.
  • Here lies andy, peperony and chease.
  • Sorry, but no one's got insert trade item here to spare.
  • From Something Awful's Let's Plays:
    • Fording every river, including the Mississippi and the Missouri
    • Needs more bacon!
  • Anything regarding to Bacon, due to it being the cheapest form of protein aside from Pemmican
    • Iliza from Last Comic Standing also got into this, mentioning things like how she left with only bacon and said "I don't know, give him bacon" in response to every possible ailment and situation.
  • From 4chan threads:
    • YOU WILL FORD THAT SHIT!!! Essentially, any river you come across no matter what size or depth you must be a man and ford it.
  • "You have died from exposure" is a popular reaction image among artists venting about being asked to work for free.
  • Grandfather clocks being the most obviously useless item you can purchase for your journey. (Not present in the original game, but included as a Joke Item in Oregon Trail II and its successors. More sarcastic LPs often feature the purchase of several grandfather clocks just for the heck of it.)

The 4chan entry stands out to me not only as annoying, but also seems to be an evolution/duplicate of the Something Awful entry. Maybe it can be streamlined to be as follows?

• Memetic Mutation:
  • You have died of dysentery.
  • However, you were only able to carry 100 pounds back to the wagon.
  • Here lies andy, peperony and chease.
  • Sorry, but no one's got insert trade item here to spare.
  • From 4chan threads: YOU WILL FORD THAT SHIT!!! Essentially, any river you come across no matter what size or depth you must be a man and ford it. This meme apparently originated from the Something Awful Let's Plays and evolved into it's current form on 4chan.
  • Anything regarding to Bacon, due to it being the cheapest form of protein aside from Pemmican.
    • "Needs More Bacon!", a phrase that originated from Something Awful
    • Iliza from Last Comic Standing also got into this, mentioning things like how she left with only bacon and said "I don't know, give him bacon" in response to every possible ailment and situation.
  • "You have died from exposure" is a popular reaction image among artists venting about being asked to work for free.
  • Grandfather clocks being the most obviously useless item you can purchase for your journey. (Not present in the original game, but included as a Joke Item in Oregon Trail II and its successors. More sarcastic LPs often feature the purchase of several grandfather clocks just for the heck of it.)

Edited by RAMChYLD on Oct 11th 2022 at 12:27:33 PM

What I came up with is:

• Creator's Apathy: According to Mark Kirk, a former vice president at 4Kids, 4Kids never actively sought to acquire the show. Toei Animation included it in the licensing deal for Ultimate Muscle and Magical DoReMi, and 4Kids agreed to the deal without bothering to look into what they were getting. The show turned out to require severe editing just to be allowed to air on network TV (due to strict FCC regulations), which resulted in a notoriously low-quality product.

I feel like it hits the highlights but I'm not 100% sure it emphasizes enough where the apathy came in (the failure to research before making the deal). And "low-quality product" is very unspecific but I don't know the specifics.

That looks pretty good. You could also remove "From 4chan threads" (since that's included in the explanation at the end of the line) and "also got into this" to clean it up more. And "it's" should be "its".

noted. But yeah, I'm on probation and am unable to edit. So if anyone wants to fix it up, I appreciate the help.

Edited by RAMChYLD on Oct 13th 2022 at 9:53:54 AM

I found this entry in Daisuke Hiyama's section on Characters.Arifureta From Commonplace To Worlds Strongest.

• Seven Deadly Sins: Daisuke proves on various occasions to suffer from all the Seven Deadly Sins.
  • Lust: Daisuke is an extremely lustful and perverted individual, obsessed with Kaori Shirasaki, the class' most beautiful and popular girl. However, he actually never really loved her, only seeing her as his property no matter how much he deludes himself otherwise, and was more than ready to do anything to have her only for himself — and when he realizes he won't be able to do so, he has no problem in killing her.
  • Wrath: He is short-tempered and easy to enrage, with Hajime (who is ironically equally wrathful after he fell into the Orcus Labyrinth) being his main target, as he hates him for getting Kaori's attentions and believes he is more deserving of them. However, while Hajime has a lot of self-control and doesn't allow his anger to blind him, Daisuke always fails in controlling his wrath, which makes him act recklessly and, ultimately, results in his death at Hajime's hands.
  • Pride: Incredibly arrogant and overconfident. Even though he knows he is weaker than Kouki, he believes that he can bring down any enemy he fights with ahis sneak attacks. He is proven wrong when his attempt to attack Hajime from behind is easily deflected, showing that he is much weaker — and even then he believes himself better than Hajime since he still believes the latter is still the weak kid he betrayed months before, so he attacked him again while he was healing Shirasaki and promptly got brutally beaten down by Hajime and left to die.
  • Sloth: Daisuke is lazy and indolent, never coming down to battle and leaving the dirty work to others and barely putting the work to improve himself.
  • Envy: The main reason for Daisuke's hatred of Hajime is that Kaori gave the latter all of her attention - and his envy was such that he actually attempted to get Hajime killed. Multiple times. Not only does this fail in achieving the expected result, it actually leads to his own downfall.
  • Greed: Selfish, greedy, and egotistical, Daisuke believes that everything he wants must belong to him, so he'll never have to share those things with anyone — and he uses this "logic" even towards people, particularly Kaori Shirasaki, the girl he lusts after.
  • Gluttony: He's never shown eating, but he's a glutton for power, as he keeps wanting to prove himself stronger than Hajime at all costs in order to kill him.

I wonder what we should do with that example?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

To be honest, I don't see anything particularly wrong with it, then again this is something I'm still learning. Maybe if we condense the 7 bullet points into one and summarize the 7 sins:

• Seven Deadly Sins: Daisuke proves on various occasions to suffer from all the Seven Deadly Sins. He is lustful, Short-tempered, arrogant, lazy, egotistical, craves attention and has a glutton for power.

Would that work? Or is there still natter to be cut?

What if we cut it down to:

• Seven Deadly Sins: Daisuke proves on various occasions to suffer from all the Seven Deadly Sins.

And leave it at that? Would that provide enough context?

Edited by RAMChYLD on Oct 31st 2022 at 7:19:21 AM

I agree that is fine. Honestly, I also feel your second rewrite is partial-context, though I could be wrong.

From the Strike Witches' section in Characters.World Witches:

• Five Rounds Rapid: The vast majority of their firepower accomplishes exactly nothing. Only when the core is exposed or when the Neuroi deploys drones does their firepower actually do something.
  • This has little to do with the guns the girls are using and a lot to do with the structure of the Neuroi themselves. Pretty much everyone can inflict significant damage on the shell of a Neuroi, the problem is that said shells can completely regenerate from having whole wings cleaved off of them in just a few seconds, so nothing short of a direct hit on the core will put them down.
  • Zig-Zagged: More accurately: for most Heavy and Capital-class Neuroi, while damage can be done easier with a Witch's magically enhanced weapons; a Neuroi's regeneration, and at times shell durability, can render any damage repaired and thus moot at best unless the core is destroyed. With smaller Neuroi units and drones; Witches can destroy them with impressive ease, although exceptions are known to exist in either direction.

I think we should merge the content into a single example. Thoughts?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I agree that the entire point can be phrased better, and the three points can be condensed into one. The first sub-bullet point also appears to be natter and should either be condensed down or cut.

---

I just noticed a lot of Indentation issues in No Port For You while reading about one of the entries containing natter. I think the page can do with having a combover with the Intentations worked on.

Edited by RAMChYLD on Nov 11th 2022 at 9:06:49 AM

The Heel Face Turn entry for Dragon Ball Z Tropes H to P reads as follows:

Doesn't this go against our Repair Dont Respond guidelines? Shouldn't we come to a consensus on which category Vegeta falls into and then edit the entry accordingly, rather than use an indentation to dispute within the page another user's opinion on a particular character?

Edited by neoYTPism on Dec 28th 2022 at 11:47:50 AM

It's against Conversation in the Main Page, a bigger no-no. The example it's attached to is also ZCE.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

I'd delete it because it provides no context to an already zero-context example. Plus, it's the kind of natter that doesn't add anything.

I'm fixing example indentation for BoBoiBoy, but would appreciate more feedback for this one, please.

• Catchphrase: BoBoiBoy's "Terbaik" which translates to "Awesome". It is coupled with a thumbs up as well.
  • The Hindi dub for India translates this by coining a new word: "Dhamalastic", a combination of the Hindi dhamaal which means "fun", and the English "fantastic". In contrast, the Tamil dub which airs in the same country just translates this to "super" or "awesome".

Should it be combined into one bullet or should the info of the two dub-changed catchphrases be two separate bullets? Like so for the latter:

• Catchphrase: BoBoiBoy's "Terbaik" which translates to "Awesome". It is coupled with a thumbs up as well.
  • The Hindi dub for India translates this by coining a new word: "Dhamalastic", a combination of the Hindi dhamaal which means "fun", and the English "fantastic".
  • The Tamil dub for India just translates this to "super" or "awesome".

Are you afraid?