Is this an example?

I’d say she counts overall if you count how she starts in her book, but that entry is awful. She’s an example in her overall arc but not just in the show

Well, the entry as written is solely about the show, and she was introduced into the show as a higher-tier fighter than the heroes.

I almost agreed with you about novel, but I'm having second thoughts because the trope is about a character that has to start as a non-badass normal (and it emphasises the non-badassery), whereas the novel indicates that Neo was always special because of her Semblance and quick learning aptitude, she just had to break free of her abusive parents to achieve her full potential.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 18th 2023 at 5:39:39 PM

I mean, she starts the book off as a little girl locked in her room by abusive parents with barely any sense of identity and her only company being basically an imaginary friend. Regardless of her Semblance (which, when she starts out, doesn’t have the wide uses she uses it for later) and quick learning capability, she’s not a badass until Roman finds her. The whole “breaking free to find her true potential” argues that the trope does apply more than it doesn’t IMO

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 18th 2023 at 1:09:47 PM

Even at the age of 8 she seems too much for her parents to handle, but fair enough. So, do you suggest the entry be rewritten to cover her as a prisoner in her parents home to Volume 9?

Yep, that’s exactly what I’d suggest personally

On the previous page, I posted that this is on the Franchise Zombie page:

• Taylor Swift's Live from Clear Channel Stripped 2008 released in 2020 was recorded during the 2008 promotional tour of Fearless and was released by Swift's old label Big Machine Record (whom she had a huge and public falling out regarding the right of the masters of her albums during the time she was with them, one of which is Fearless) without her permission. She completely denounced the album and called it "tasteless" and "shameless greed in the time of coronavirus".

My issue with this paragraph is that if the album had been released soon after it was recorded, it wouldn’t be considered a “zombie”. And here’s something else I thought of: if this is a legitimate example of this trope, then Having Fun with Elvis on Stage should also be on the page.

Okay, how about this write-up? Feel free to suggest alterations.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 18th 2023 at 7:21:55 PM

I don't think an album suffering a one-time delayed release counts as a "zombie." A Franchise Zombie needs to be perpetual, IMO, so it would need to refer to a continuous milking of Fearless, not just a one-off cash grab.

Okay, thank you. On the Taylor Swift trivia page, I moved it to Creator Backlash.

What would you call it when a child kills their adoptive family? Would it still be Self-Made Orphan? For example, in Fire Emblem Engage, Lord Sombron gets adopted into a village, but he eventually killed everyone in said village due to Misplaced Retribution. Would Sombron count as a Self-Made Orphan, or is there a better trope to describe this? Thank you!

Not sure if villages count but the trope is for parental figures

I need a clarification on this one

Trivia.IndianaJonesAndTheDialOfDestiny:

• Recycled Script: Once the plot leaves the US and until the very climax, it's bit-by-bit Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis. We've got, among other things:
  • Solving the greater mystery requires following the tracks of a Greek philosopher (Plato vs. Archimedes).
  • Chase through the streets of Algiers/Tangiers.
  • Diving around the Greek shore for clues regarding greater mystery.
  • Found in Greece Sun Disc/Graphikos with clues to follow and puzzles to solve with it. And they both look very similar.
  • A half-sunk, maze-like complex to penetrate, all while dodging Nazis (ruins of Atlantis vs. Archimedes' tomb).
  • An untrained pilot having to first commandeer a vessel and then perform a daring flight (Indy vs. Teddy)
  • And of course, Nazis are always breathing on the back of Indy, often inexplicably showing up at the scene, using him to solve the puzzles for them.

Is it or not an example? And if not, what does it lack to qualify?

Edited by Tropiarz on Aug 18th 2023 at 11:37:36 AM

Cwallace, you want Where I Was Born and Razed.

A recycled script has to have almost no changes, Dial of Destiny looks distinct enough that the similarities are all mostly what would be expected from an indiana jones movie shot in greece

That's the thing, it doesn't have a change. The only difference was re-arranging order of things (and not fully, at that), but it's same story, with same bits, and even oddly similar mini-MacGuffin in the middle of it (which feels like something straight out of a video game: a key to doors to get to the other key, so you can get THE MacGuffin). I might never played the "Team" path of Fate, but it does correspond to "Brawl" and has elements from "Wits" path, too.

Reposting from the previous page:

From Kai's section in Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam:

• Belligerent Sexual Tension: Arguably with Defrosting Ice Queen Sayla. Their first encounter involved a Bitch Slap, she rolled her eyes at him for most of the show... it's also worth noting that Sayla fully fits the description of the ideal girlfriend Kai's describing at one point... and eventually he offhandedly and casually says he loves her. It’s not shown if she reciprocated, but as the show goes on she at least softened up with him, and Kai's the one who catches her after she escapes A Baoa Qu, when she's naturally quite happy to see him.

Since Administrivia.Examples Are Not Arguable, what should we do about this entry?

Under the page for Superman: The Movie, I feel this stuff is stretching the definition of Hype Backlash

• Today's Superman identifies as Clark Kent first and Superman second and he became Superman on his own initiative, while the films emphasize his alien identity to the point of having Jor-El mind-meld with him for many years to make him Superman (and give him the suit), after which "Clark Kent" is just a sham. Even in the comics at the time which treated Kal-El as the real identity, it was clearly his decision to be Superman while the character used that and his Clark Kent identity simply to better protect the innocent. For all the praise Reeve gets, because of plot contrivance he never played Clark in this film as the "real guy" like Dean Cain or Tom Welling did. In the first movie's few scenes with the "real" Clark before he gets his brain overwritten by Jor-El, he's played by Jeff East, not Reeve. Somewhat rectified by Superman III, as it goes into his past in Smallville with Lana Lang.
  • The characterizations of Jor-El is a major departure from the comics even at the time. The Reeve movies invented the whole space god schtick for Jor-El and the huge extent he posthumously plays in Clark becoming Superman, to the point of being overbearing and creepy.
  • Lex Luthor also got a massive downgrade compared to his comics portrayal at the time - even his earliest Mad Scientist incarnation was more serious than Hackman's mostly clownish portrayal, to say nothing of his Powered Armor-wearing and Corrupt Corporate Executive incarnations. This may irk even more when you consider that Hackman has had plenty of roles more akin to a mainly serious Lex. His Lex also has an insultingly politically incorrect gun-moll more apt to the 1930s, but not for 1978. Really, Lex and his minions is the one element of the movie still firmly rooted in the Batman series.
  • Their characterizations aren't the only ones on trial for modern fans - Lois Lane wasn't exactly the smartest reporter on the block, and her slightly raspy chain-smoking voice, scatterbrained illiteracy, and in general her "quirky", daffy 1940s screwball personality with just a hint of Stalker with a Crush - which Lois Lane sadly was throughout the Golden Age, Silver Age and a little bit in the Bronze Age - would probably rub modern fans the wrong way and leave them wondering just what exactly Superman sees in her.
  • The theme of Superman as a sort of space Jesus (and Jor-El as a space God) just isn't true to the comics, now and then.
  • Pa Kent's death can seem unnecessary for people who are used to depictions with him still alive, though this was only introduced after DC's 1986 reboot.
  • Then there's the issue of Superman being "overpowered" because of Silver Age power levels, as with turning back time. Comic fans at the time of the film's release were long used to Superman being able to time-travel; however, they might've noted that Clark couldn't change the past via time travel. Plus, time-travel to any point when he was alive, past or future, saw him become an invisible phantom, unable to interact with anyone.
  • A few fans at the time of the film's release likely noted the absence of Clark's then-canonical Superboy career (though the Earth-2 Superman in comics at the time did debut as an adult, per Action Comics #1).
  • There's been a growing generational divide over this movie's status as "the definitive Superman movie". While it's still regarded as a timeless classic and appreciated for its general legacy in modern comic book movies, a number of younger fans (particularly those who enjoy the DC Extended Universe take on the character) have expressed increasing aggravation over how it continues to hang a shadow over other live-action adaptations and how every other actor to portray the character of Superman in live action has to be compared against Christopher Reeve, especially when it involves being disproportionately harsh towards other versions while ignoring the flaws Reeve's Clark displayed such as abandoning humanity for purely selfish purposes in the second film. For what it's worth, Reeve himself was vocal in his desire for the character to evolve past his portrayal and was even sick of still playing Clark as a bumbling nerd four films in and Donner's own time on Superman comics during the Last Son arc had a far more serious approach to the character.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Aug 18th 2023 at 9:41:54 AM

Non of these read as HB and comes off more like complaining.

EDIT:

Yeah... to me, that just looks like complaining for the most part.

Edited by StewieGriffin34 on Aug 18th 2023 at 10:06:09 AM

In Characters.Yu Yu Hakusho Main Villains, Jerkass is listed in Elder Toguro's folder. However, a Sub-Trope (i.e. Jerk with a Heart of Jerk) is already listed. Can I delete his Jerkass entry? (Sorry if this isn't the right place to go for this, I don't think any other thread that I know of would substitute.)

On ReferencedBy/TheSimpsons, this is listed as a reference under "Films - Live Action":

• The scene in Spider-Man: Homecoming where Betty Brant turns down Jason Ionello in front of cameras broadcast for the whole school complete with close-ups of reaction shots on the boy's face recalls the famous episode "I Love Lisa", where you could almost pinpoint the second where his heart breaks.

Personally, I think this is more or a confidence than a a reference. The troper referring the Simpsons episode as "famous" and quoting Bart's memetic line "You can actually pinpoint the second when his heart breaks in half" almost word-for-word gives it away. Should the above be taken off the page or rewritten?

Is is required that a game's Hint System is globally present to qualify as an example? There's a puzzle game where some levels include a Hint Tile which, upon being stepped upon by the main character, will provide a clue or instruction related to what the player has to do. However, it's not present in all levels, so it's more of a situational element.

VideoGame.Bloody Spell: Needs description of physical animal traits to count, right?

• Beast Man: The game's most recurring enemy type in early levels are beast-people, feral humanoid enemies who walks with a hunch.

On the Unintentionally Unsympathetic subpage for Total Drama, this was cited as misuse for Even Evil Has Standards, with Chris and Julia being disgusted with Emma going back to Chase apparently not fitting due to them not calling it out or showing their limits beforehand. To me the edit seems like it's answering its own apparent certainty about the trope being misused by showing that yes, Chris and Julia obviously have limits that can't really be doubted. The trope has also been potholed on the main page describing the same scenario without being removed, so I feel like it's at the very least a downplayed but valid use of the trope, but I'm not totally sure.

You're thinking of Chip's Challenge, right? That should count, or else the trope is too narrow. (The Talos Principle is listed, which will give the player three hints... for the entire game. And you have to solve puzzles before you find one.)

Does It's the Same, So It Sucks only applies to the the same Franchise or can you use it for different medias that used similar elements?