Is this an example?

Found this on the main page for Final Fantasy III.

• Spiritual Successor: The same team that worked on the DS remake would later go on to make Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light, which has its own Spiritual Successor in Bravely Default. All three games are similar in visuals, tone, and storytelling, and utilize extremely similar Job systems.

Should this be moved to the YMMV page, or, given that this game preceeds the other games being mentioned here, should it just be deleted?

Re-posting:

I submitted a video for Handicapped Badass for My Cat from Hell, displaying exactly what is written on the series page under this trope's entry. My video was rejected for not matching the trope: "I think counting aggressive animals is stretching the trope a bit." Do you agree?

Re: the Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves example on the previous page: I do agree that putting under Surprisingly Improved Sequel is too much of a stretch

I question this entry on Audience-Alienating Ending as it focuses more on the general premise of the Film rather than its ending. Or is it fine given its (currently) the last Star Wars film?

• While the Star Wars sequel trilogy is divisive for many reasons among fans, its first two entries still managed to get a largely positive critical response. That all changed with the release of the third entry, The Rise of Skywalker. In a nutshell, it's revealed that Palpatine is still alive, he was secretly behind most of the villains' actions throughout the sequel trilogy, and Rey is actually his granddaughter. This revelation is widely criticized for nullifying Vader's sacrifice and redemption in Return of the Jedi and for raising far more questions than it answers—partly because it isn't foreshadowed or set up in any way (outside of an event in Fortnite of all things), leading most fans to accuse the writers of not planning it in advance. Additionally, the filmmakers not bothering to properly explain how Palpatine survived falling into a bottomless pit on the Death Star shortly before it exploded, presumably as a marketing ploy to get people to buy the novelization where an explanation is provided, makes the reveal come across as lazy and poorly implemented. It also blatantly contradicts the ending of The Last Jedi, which reveals that Rey's parents were impoverished junk traders who sold her into slavery for cash. Largely due to all this, The Rise of Skywalker received the weakest critical reviews of the Sequel Trilogy, earned the lowest amount of money at the box office, and is widely seen as an unfitting end to the Star Wars saga.

Fits better under Fan-Disliked Explanation, given that many of the disliked aspects have to do with the story (though I think that page already has TROS as an example).

This was added to YMMV.Kikis Delivery Service by No Username

• Mainstream Obscurity: Oddly enough, despite Kiki's Delivery Service being the first big success for Studio Ghibli outside of Japan, its international popularity has waned a bit over the years. It is still widely recognizable, and more well-known than something like Porco Rosso or Only Yesterday — in other words, popular enough to have merchandise sold in stores — but it's usually crowded out by the heavy hitters like Spirited Away or My Neighbor Totoro, and tends to be overlooked by casual viewers as a result. This isn't the case in Japan, where Kiki's Delivery Service is still one of Ghibli's most popular films.

As a major Ghibli fanatic, I feel Kiki doesn't really count here, as I feel it's still up there with Totoro and Spirited Away'' as one of Ghibli's most popular and widely known films amongst casual audiences as it continues to get a ton of fan art, references in other media, and the like.

But what about you guys? Does this qualify.

Edited by Tylerbear12 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 8:45:47 AM

At the end of the Blue Beetle trailer, George Lopez’s character calls Batman a facist. Would this fit more under Take That Us or Self-Deprecation, because I’m sure that complaint has been leveled before.

Edited by BigBadShadow25 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 12:16:22 PM

No, "not as popular as the most popular things" =/= obscure

Don't think you can extrapolate either out of that. Batman has been written as fascist or fascist-adjacent before.

Take That Us is a redirect for Self-Deprecation.

From Anime.Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny:

• Karma Houdini: Did anyone notice that Neo Roanoke never got questioned once for putting Stella in the Destroy, which led to uncountable deaths in Berlin, after he was rescued by the Archangel? Continues since, despite loudly proclaiming who he works for and his rescuers’ great info gathering capabilities, Kira and the others seem to have no idea what he's done or an inclination to discuss it.

Since Neo is later revealed to be a brainwashed Mu La Flaga, who eventually pulls a Heel–Face Turn and reformed characters are exempt from this trope, does this count?

Edited by gjjones on Apr 3rd 2023 at 12:10:22 PM

yeah remove it

the DND film example also doesnt count since OGL Among Thieves isnt even a reboot of that continuity, it is a film made to be totally different in scope, tone, canon, etc

hiiii it's time for more pathfinderrrrr

per this post: would demonspawn who often resemble and have some of the abilities (rebalanced and nerfed for players) and usually the same appearance as their demon lineage (in pathfinder there are different demon types with different abilities and appearances) count as Redemption Demotion?

of note is that Redemption Demotion explicitly lists monsters from DND.

sorry if it's a repost, it's just that the other editor removed the trope citing a completely different post and i want to be sure before i add it back

Edited by MsOranjeDiscoDancer on Apr 3rd 2023 at 11:51:46 AM

• YMMV.Made In Abyss

From YMMV.Fullmetal Alchemist:

• Fair for Its Day: Edward being short and having people not take him very seriously because of it is something a lot of short men can relate to, as heightism towards men is very, very real. However, the manga and Brotherhood ending with Ed having a growth spurt in the three year Time Skip can come across as a bit insensitive, giving the idea that short men will become taller eventually.

Isnt this trope about something seen as progressive back then but is not now. I don't get that from this entry?

The jokes about Ed's height are pretty much a Running Gag for the manga, and Ed getting angry about them it always Played for Laughs, so the argument that the manga is trying to say that you have to respect short men isn't really true. He's also a teenager, so it makes sense that he'd have a growth spurt.

Overall, the entry is clearly a misuse and it should be cut.

Okay I removed it.

Can I add Rise of Skywalker back to the "Audience Alienating Ending" page? I just don't understand why it was cut. Multiple fans and reviewers have pointed to Rise of Skywalker being a massive example of Audience Alienating ending. Even if it won't be the final Star Wars film it was still advertised as the end to the Skywalker Saga. Even if there are more films it also functions as an end to the sequel trilogy. Therefore I think listing Rise of Skywalker in the context of "The ending to the Sequel trilogy and by extension the Skywalker saga" is perfectly valid.

Caught more tropeslashing at Fire Emblem On Forums Numbered Games:

• Came Back Wrong / Transhuman: Ultimately was resurrected by Prixima and used against the mercenaries as they assaulted her castle.
• Death by Pragmatism / Karmic Death: Turns out, attacking a harmless courier passing by your campsite can have far-reaching consequences.
• Artificial Human / Transhuman: Her ultimate goal is to replace humanity with magic enhanced duplicates.

Need backup. I mean help.

• Neither works.
• Neither has enough context to tell.
• Sounds like neither and is probably some trope from villain motivations.

I'd just remove these.

Edited by Amonimus on Apr 4th 2023 at 12:57:17 PM

@Ms Oranje Disco Dancer: That would have applied if PF had playable fiends and celestials. Actual playable demons, devils, angels, archons etc... instead of demon- and devil-blooded tieflings and angel- and archon-blooded aasimars (which might incorporate more elements of specific fiends and celestials than the average tiefling and aasimar does, but are still very distinct from actual fiends and celestials).

On Alternate Company Equivalent:

• Despite being years apart in their release history, and being made by companies with little-to-no tangible connection to each other, the Story Arcs of Amnesiac Heroes in BioWare's Knights of the Old Republic and Spike Chunsoft's Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair have a lot of similarities. Both games have them appear to be average Joes at first, but their backstories reveal them to have been very evil people who played a major role in driving the conflict of their own stories. The similarities are even more apparent if you play the Light-Sided route in KOTOR as Revan (the KOTOR protagonist) and Hajime Hinata (the Danganronpa 2 protagonist) turn out to be really benevolent Nice Guys who are a far cry from their former evil personalities, and in the end they reject their former identities and decide to start with a clean slate as the heroic people they've become.

...No. These works aren't competing with each other, the example even admits it's a stretch, and it's more like a Surprisingly-Similar Stories entry. Permission to cut?

Sounds good to me.

Done.

Would a woman described as a medieval lord's "pampered plaything" count as a Royal Favorite? Or not high status or singularly pampered enough?

Seems so to me, assuming she enjoys some actual privileges.

Any consensus on my question?