Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

I gotta agree with War Jay. If its a notable and verifiable reaction we can add it to YMMV and the reaction is real.

Also I want to bring up this rather complainy and unnecesary complaint about Dreamworks and the cartoons based on their movies.

It is from Broken Aesop about The Boss Baby.

• In a more straight example, the original film according to the rules of its' universe, states that babies either go to families or work for Baby Corp, (no third alternative) and that the crux of the movie is the titular character learning how much he likes being part of a family and giving up his promotion at Baby Corp to be with them. This series somehow has it that he's both part of the family and working for Baby Corp again, meaning all that development was thrown out the window cause now he has both. And yes, one could argue it's an Alternate Continuity / Broad Strokes note As tends to be the case with pretty much every Dream Works series, can't they do one that's actually canon to one of their movies? but that still doesn't mean the lesson wasn't invalidated.

The offending part is in italics.

Edited by AegisP on Feb 17th 2023 at 2:16:13 AM

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Re: The Pokemon situation. Gholdengo was removed because it's far too heavily promoted to be an Ensemble Dark Horse, much like Lucario and Zoroark back in the day. I remember removing Toxtricity since it had almost the same level of promotion, but someone else added in the meanwhile so I think I will have to remove it again.

As for the others, I agree with Scovillain being too polemic to be a true Ensemble Dark Horse, as I have found many many players to detest its design and how the first Grass/Fire Pokemon is based on chili peppers - when many fans consistently attacked fan designs based on chili peppers because of how unoriginal they were. Maushold and Finizen I haven't seen too many criticism TBH, although Maushold I don't know if it really qualifies for Darkhorse as I haven't seen that many players in love with it.

Maushold is probably the new Pokemon I see posted about the most on Twitter but I've been avoiding big spoilers when I can so maybe my circle isn't accurate.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Really, Scovillain? I've seen much worse designs for official pokemon. It also doesn't seem any more unoriginal than a snake made out of rocks for a rock pokemon, or a bat with four wings, or a giant bee. That sort of silliness is very much a Franchise Original Sin.

Optimism is a duty.

Ensemble Dark Horse and such are meant to acknowledge fanbase reactions, not our personal opinions. And there's a sizeable portion of the fandom that dislikes Scovillain, while there's a sizeable portion that also likes how silly it looks. Hence why it disqualifies for Ensemble Dark Horse, instead being a Base-Breaking Character (as soon as it's possible to add entries for SV, that is)

I found this on Denser and Wackier:

• Red vs. Blue was always silly, but grounded in science fiction that wouldn't be out of place in the Halo games it borrows from. That is, until Season 16, The Shisno Paradox, which introduces time travel, ancient gods and such. The high point is a cyclops portrayed by a live-action person, ensuring complaints from people who preferred how dramatic the show got as it went on instead of an inversion.

This just seems to be complaining about a story arc they didn't like. The fact they're trying to claim it's an inversion of the trope shows that it's not really the trope at all. It's also being disingenuous as the concept of time-travel, and a time-travel storyline, was introduced in early volumes... it got retconned later on into the characters really getting the wrong end of the stick about the experience they've just been through (Played for Laughs, as usual for this show), but that should probably indicate how the high the bar is for Season 16 to count for this trope — the show started off so cartoonish and wacky that it was easy for the writers to retcon an entire time-travel story arc into the characters just being their crazy selves. That makes it really hard for future seasons to hit that kind of level again. Season 14, which is an anthology, probably gets closest.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 18th 2023 at 10:40:23 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

From WhyFandomCantHaveNiceThings.Live Action TV:

• Jennifer Morrison (Emma Swan) slowly withdrew from conventions and social media after being harassed and bullied by obsessed "Swan Queen" shippers who were unhappy about the ship not being canon.^note  Some went as far as accusing her of being homophobic because she wasn't as vocally supportive of the ship as Lana.It got so bad that she eventually stopped interacting with Lana Parrilla (Regina).

This seems more like complaining about certain shippers then being actually about the example. My proposed rewrite.

• Jennifer Morrison (Emma Swan) slowly slowly withdrew from conventions and social media after being caught in a nasty shipping war and harassed online by Once Upon a Time fans, particularly "Swan Queen" shippers, which lead to her to also stop interacting with Lana Parrilla (Regina).

Thoughts?

Edited by Bullman on Feb 19th 2023 at 10:36:38 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Looks good to me.

<(0_0<) <(0_0)> (>0_0)> KIRBY DANCE

Aside from the extra "slowly", that's better.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

I need to question these entries on Snakes Are Sinister:

• Zig-zagged in The Lion Guard:
  • On one hand, we have Ushari the Egyptian cobra. While starting off as a rather normal albeit irritable snake, he ends up becoming one of the chief villains in Season 2 where he helps Janja in bringing back Scar, in a plot to get even with the Lion Guard and take over the Pride Lands, and then serves as Scar's second-in-command. Season 3 escalates this by revealing that not only did Scar get his scar from a random cobra, but that cobra venom can remove your morals. So yes, cobras are pretty much the physical source of immorality in the Lion King verse.
  • By contrast, African rock pythons are not shown as more menacing than the other predators in the show and have been the one large predatory reptile to never cause trouble, inverting the trope. However, this is invoked in "Baboons!" where Baby Baboon gets scared by a python on a branch, although the snake doesn't make an attempt to attack him. Apparently, only venomous snakes are sinister.

While the entries themselves are completely valid, the last sentences (emphasis mine) seem a bit too bashy. Permission to cut?

Edited by BigJimbo on Feb 20th 2023 at 2:32:38 AM

Yeah, those sentences are crufty anyways. Cut away.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Okay I swapped in my rewrite minus the extra slowly m

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Bringing these up from Fake American's Live-Action TV sub-page. They are pretty whiny and bashy, especially the last five (plus the Eureka example seems to be Narm mis-use).

• As Time Goes By has an arc where Lionel and Jean work on an American miniseries. The producer they associate with has an American accent that's just as bad as the miniseries.
  "Yrr in the shaht!"
• Boston Legal: In Season 4, the English actress Saffron Burrows joined the show as lawyer Lorraine Weller, with a really bad fake American accent. After a few episodes (presumably after the producers realized the tremendous mistake they had made by casting her as an American), they used a hastily concocted plot twist (she was in hiding from her past life as a high-class British madam) that enabled her to revert to her natural speech, and the horrible American accent was never heard again.
• On CSI, Louise Lombard played Sofia Curtis, and did such a poor job trying to sound American that it turned into a What the Hell Is That Accent? situation.
• Eureka: James Callis as Dr. Grant. Since Grant is also a time-traveler, he has to affect an American accent from the 1940s. The accent is really terrible, although some of that is attributable to the occasionally narmtastic lines he has to deliver.
• Journeyman: Kevin McKidd's perpetually slipping American accent can be grating on the ears.
• The Last Days Of Lehman Brothers sees James Bolam put on an atrocious "Southern" accent.

I get people dont really like bad dubs but do we REALLY need Subbing vs. Dubbing to be so heavily bashy towards dubs and so biased towards Subs?

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

It's a product of being written in the late 2000s/early 2010s, a time where anime dubs got far less respect than they do now.

And very USA centric, here in Latin America almost every piece of media we get is dubbed. I know it is ALSO wrong to impose my perspective on the article but it should mostly be neutral.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Fake American is 'American played by non-American actor', so any bashy reviews of their performances can be removed.

---

Something I've noticed: I think Executive Meddling is being misused to make jabs at Reality Television. Here's a few examples on the trope's Live-Action TV page:

• Nearly all reality TV shows go through this. In fact, the term "reality TV" may actually be something of a misnomer these days, since very few of them actually depict straight reality. Very often, executives will step in and try to manufacture drama for the sake of "keeping things interesting", such as telling two close friends or family members to pretend to hold a grudge against one another over a minor slight. In extreme cases, Manipulative Editing or props hung up in a person's house or room by the crew may be used to completely change someone's personality.
• Practically the majority of reality TV shows, especially talent shows like American Idol. Some things that are staged are so blatant (such as shoving someone with almost zero skill in whatever the show wants onto the show) that it can feel like you're really just watching unpaid actors that are doing improv for a season. Most reality and talent shows seem to have scenes that are filled to the brim with drama on screen due to careful editing. This all works as people keep tuning in to watch.
  • They aren't even trying to hide it on American Idol anymore. The last two seasons, they've implemented a "Judge Veto" system. So if a fan-favorite performer gets voted off, the judges can veto the decision. To keep it somewhat fair, they can only use the veto once per season. Now Kara Dio Guardi has been fired and Ellen De Generes and Simon Cowell quit with Jennifer Lopez and Steven Tyler joining as the new judges.
• [Under Big Brother]: Some have also argued that the act of selecting people for reality TV is this in itself. The people in charge try and pick a diverse series of contestants (There is almost always at least one openly gay guy, one princess, one dimwit, etc) but they try and pick the contestants who are most likely to clash and fight with each other because that's what drives ratings. If they pick huge fans of Big Brother they won't pick the people who can practically predict the flow of the game a week in advance because they'll be sitting around observing...they want people who'll be up and about picking fights and confronting other houseguests. The same has often been said for other shows like Survivor or The Amazing Race.
• Australian Survivor is certainly not immune to this trope. The screen-time of contestants is very unequal, with some contestants receiving much more in terms of confessionals and the show itself. However, it is understandable given that the producers would want to give more interesting contestants the lion's share of screen-time to boost ratings.
  • A feature of the show that has become increasingly common from season to season is the occurrence of twists. This has been widely criticised by fans, who believe that the game should remain as pure as possible. More recent seasons have seen fans grow suspicious that certain twists are shoehorned into the game to favour certain contestants.

Of course, nobody will argue that reality competition shows are free of producer manipulation. But I think there is a clear difference between 'producers do things to steer the contestants towards outcomes that make for good TV' and Executive Meddling, and that these entries are an attempt to shoehorn the former into the latter. I feel I should cut these for misuse.

Ok so, I have recently deleted this example from YMMV.Brad Jones:

• Harsher in Hindsight:
  • In 2018, Brad came out against the Change The Channel movement, although he also had expressed problems with the Channel Awesome site management and certain things about the anniversary films when they were being shot. He mocked the movement as, "not getting Applebees" (in reference to Alison Pregler's account in the document, which she later backtracked on) and has made light of everyone's complaints otherwise. Later in 2019, he also blamed the supporters of the movement for prank calling the police saying Brad was suicidal, causing a cop to be sent to his house to check on him (which he claims was a swatting) as a result. His wife subsequently blamed Allison Pregler for this, saying it was her fanbase that did it because it apparently happened when she was at her father's funeral after his suicide, caused by strong anger on her part from that happening. Allison claimed to have found holes in Brad's story which led her to believe that he lied about the swatting to discredit CTC. This has driven a wall between him (and his wife) and past creators who were his friends, causing them to part on bad terms. Knowing this can make his past interactions with them in his and other videos hard to watch. Most notably, during their joint review of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, Brad accidentally hit Allison right in the face with what was supposed to be a mock punch, something other members of Channel Awesome joked about afterwards.

I'll be frank with you, I didn't read the last part, so the example does mention a past event that is now hard to see due to the recent controversy between Brad and Allison. I'm wrong about that, sorry. That said, it still seems to me that the example goes into too much detail, and the event it mentions (Brad hitting Allison by accident) doesn't relate much to the controversy.

Thoughts?

Consider it done

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Feb 21st 2023 at 2:36:40 PM

Valdo

We don't need all the gritty details of the CTC drama, especially because the Brad/Allison drama in particular is pretty contentious. I say just simplify it to the fake hitting incident and summarize the drama as something like "Brad and Allison ending their friendship on bad terms due to their opposing stances on the Channel Awesome controversy."

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Well, the entry is technically not about Brad and Allison, but Brad and everybody, with the specific scene in question being a single example. I don't mind making it about Brad and Allison, but as of right now, the details weren't actually unrelated.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

In YMMV.Hogwarts Legacy.

• Tainted by the Preview:
  • The villains of the game include the Goblins, being set during a goblin rebellion. This has drawn the ire of some due to the goblins resembling antisemitic stereotypes. Later-released information about the goblins kidnapping wizard children also brings to mind blood libel, another antisemitic myth about Jewish people kidnapping children to use for rituals.

To me, this Tainted by the Preview entry reads more like an Unfortunate Implications entry under a different name. What do you guys think?

Ryoko.

I agree.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300

Agree as well. Though I wouldn't move to UI unless there are multiple citations, and even that UI recently underwent TRS and is now Flame Bait so it'd have to be deleted off the YMMV page anyway.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

I feel like this one has cropped up before, but I can't find a record of it. That could just be because I always struggle to search for things here, so I could have just missed it.

The following has just been added to the RWBY work pages, but it's misusing PCM for audience reaction complaining when it's supposed to be an objective trope. While the narrative does favour the heroes, it's not doing so in an uncritical way, and the heroes are known to screw up along the way. They do call each other out at times.

• Protagonist-Centered Morality: Downplayed. Whilst the show doesn't gloss over the facts that Team RWBY and JNPR make mistakes with consequences whilst the people they oppose have their own justifications for their courses of action, the narrative tends to condemn other characters for particular acts and shortcomings while not holding the protagonists to the same standards.
  • During the Mistral arc, Blake's treatment of Sun Wukong is belligerent, not unlike how Adam Taurus (who is characterized as a monstrous Psycho Ex-Boyfriend whom Blake was entirely justified in trying to get away from) treated her. But she's never called out at all on this behavior, nor does the narrative treat it as if it's unacceptable like it is in Adam's case. The entry is wrong to say the narrative doesn't portray this as wrong, or that she's never called out for her behaviour. She is going through a toxic decompression and she does later acknowledge Sun's support during such a negative period, and uses Sun saving her from herself as an inspiration for saving another friend from falling down the same path as Adam. There is a valid audience reaction surrounding her behaviour, but that's already got a more accurate write-up under both Unintentionally Unsympathetic and Base-Breaking Character.
  • In Volume 6; Team RWBY and Qrow loudly and blisteringly condemn Ozpin as a Broken Pedestal for keeping the truth of Salem's Invincible Villain status from them due to his fear it would cause them to give up the fight, and the former group aren't painted by the narrative as having proven Ozpin's concerns completely justified with their reaction over the following several episodes. Furthermore, in the next volume, RWBY and JNR follow the very example that they condemned Ozpin for by withholding the same information from General Ironwood out of concern over how he would react. And that's not even getting into the ambiguity of whether or not Yang (who was one of the most indignant and outraged over Ozpin's secrecy) ever told her teammates that she'd discovered one of the Maidens' identities and had promised said Maiden that she wouldn't tell anyone. This is an audience reaction complaint that is already accurately captured under both Unintentionally Unsympathetic (the heroes) and Unintentionally Sympathetic (Ozpin). Within the story itself, it's a massive plot point that the heroes do to Ironwood what Ozpin did to them, with several characters being extremely uncomfortable about this, and then have it blow up in their faces the same way it blew up in Ozpin's. The storyline's point is for the heroes to walk a mile in their mentor's shoes and finally understand what he's been going through while watching them struggle with the issue makes Ozpin realise just how frightened of trusting people he'd become.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 23rd 2023 at 2:06:28 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

re the wizard game: People were saying that based off the preview for long before the game actually released. Though in all honesty I'm not sure people would have taken such comparisons seriously if not for JKR already being so widely hated that a lot of people just hate everything HP on principle...

In any case, Tainted by the Preview is about people being put off by a preview before the work actually releases, so that sounds like it fits? If this offputting is because of offensive implications I don't know how that changes things.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Feb 23rd 2023 at 9:04:17 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.