Kyon: Big Damn Hero

They were? I've noticed that misspelling at that spot since I started reading.

I... think they were corrected, I'm not sure really. But what I'm sure was I sent that specific correction quite a long time ago.

Edit: and it was acknowledged by Durandall by the mail-reply.

edited 22nd Dec '12 2:48:13 PM by Filraen

@Jigaboo:

At the very least I could make use of such corrections and include them in the PDF version of the story.

Re. Memento Mori

I just read the story and I would like to comment a few things, but after taking notice of the timestamps of the posts in previous page of the thread I realized that maybe I took too much time before doing it. Anyone still interested?

Random thought.

If Kyon kisses Sasaki, would Kyouko feel it just like it happened to Koizumi in TL-1?

I'm not very sure whether Kyon knows about it or not, so I'm predicting a hilarious yet very awkward moment for everyone involved if the above ends happening.

I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on Memento Mori, Specular.

Speaking of Kyouko, I am still sad that we've completely missed out on the possibility of "Kyon + Esper" make-out. Haruhi/Sasaki!Esper powers must have Mundane Utility applications, right?

Hey now, Itsuki needs a girl too.

BUT WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE THE ONLY CANON FEMALE ESPER WHO IS AROUND KYON'S AGE?! TT_TT

edited 23rd Dec '12 8:00:42 AM by MarqFJA

...Because Itsuki is also around Kyon's age?

Your point being...?

Re. Memento Mori (MM).

Just in case, I will keep the spoiler flag up. If you haven't read the story, you may want to skip this post until the end, just after the second horizontal line.

Are you sure about reading this? Fine, go ahead.

Setting aside for the moment whether you agree with Kyon's decision, I would like to point out something about Nagato.

Kyon once berated himself for taking her for granted (which is something I wholeheartedly seconded), but until now I never noticed how reliant she could be on the peculiarities of their relationship. It's like a Deconstruction of the Power of Trust. Just like Kyon thought he could "shut down his brain" as long as Nagato is there to handle things, I got the impression she thinks she can avoid making hard decisions as long as Kyon is there to make them for her.

In the particular case of MM, if I were in her shoes I would have healed Kyon without telling him a word about it even if, or rather because it goes against his moral compass. As the story points it out, Kyon never really took advantage of his friends' powers and it was obvious (IMHO, at least) that he would act as he did in this story*

About Kyon's decision, I'm in two minds about that (actually "X minds", with X > 4, but that would mean a very long post*

On one hand, he's right. Making such a concession today could mean Jumping Off the Slippery Slope tomorrow and if he really wants to live as a normal person, he should be prepared to die like one. Getting the genie is out of the bottle, especially when he are talking about Reality Warping, involves such everlasting consequences that one life is simply not worth the risk. Probably the whole reason why Kyon found himself in such influential position in the first place is because he's the kind of person who would walk down that path if it comes down to it.

On the other hand, he's making everybody else pay the price for his decisions. As cliché as it may sound, his life doesn't belong just to him. Depending on your personal take on this, Kyon refusing to "cheat" with his own life on the line may very well be considered some sort of fate-assisted suicide. After all, what's so wrong about that? Each functional entity must likely have some kind of relative advantage above the rest. It's just natural. Some are stronger, some are smarter or more resilient or prolific or work well in a collective or perhaps they just find themselves in the right place at the right time. In a way, the universe is fair in its unfairness and Kyon, by declining to make use of the "unfair" resources at his disposal, is setting himself apart from the rest just like he said he shouldn't. Put it in this way: would be Kyon able to defend his decision from any person who is still fighting against a potentially fatal disease? Or in his words, if that's the hand he was dealt, why he's ignoring the wildcards just there?

On the gripping hand, it's just stupid. Kyon has no way to know for sure that his death would not turn things From Bad to Worse. Even a time traveller could be lying for his sake by telling him otherwise. Just think about what would happened if Haruhi does not get knocked up at the end of the story^* (the way her power messes with probability almost guarantees this outcome, but that's not something he considered). IMO, it's pretty clear that Kyon's actions still shaped Haruhi's life in spite of his words. Her choice of career and her lack of love life to speak of (as far as her daughter can tell) hint that much. It's not just Haruhi, for instance Mikuru seems to have blamed herself all her life up to the point she tried to pull off a "Chrono Gambit" to save his life. And all that's the good outcome, You Do NOT Want To Know what went through my head when I start to consider other options.

On a meta level, Memento Mori is a lot more predictable than Durandall's other stories. When I wondered why, I stumbled on the idea that perhaps it was that way by design. It was a lot easier, at least for me, to read the whole story in one sitting by knowing what to expect and how the character would deal with it. YMMV, but I think the aggressiveness of Kyon's disease was a blessing in disguise, just think of the possibility of a prognosis similar to Alzheimer's disease, with Kyon slowly forgetting about his friends and family, one memory at a time, until the point he will think of them as strangers.

To finish my ramblings, I have to say I think it was an exceptional story, well written, thought-provoking and very respectful of the many delicate topics involved. Although, now I must admit I have the somewhat perverse urge to post about MM in the recommendation page just to see how people would react to it.

And now, Something Completely Different.

What are you saying? Do Memory Gambit!Haruhi and Kanae not count as ESPer girlfriends? Heck, now if Sasaki decides to have psychometry^def. (the "ability to discover information about an object's past, and especially about its past owners, merely by handling it", something like a contact-based retrocognitive clairvoyance) as her "daytime powers" and join the Big Damn Harem, I would be able to attach the title "Supervisor" to Kyon's (nick)name.

Idea!

How to make a potential "Kiss by Proxy" even more awkward? How about if it happens while Koizumi is focusing his psychic powers on Kyouko. Post-Kiss Catatonia × 3 in one kiss!

BTW, if the above ever comes to happen, my suggested course of action for Kyouko and Koizumi would be (and I quote) "snog the daylights out of" each other. That way they would get the chance to drown foreign sensations and feelings with their own... or develop a really weird fetish. Hopefully the former.

Koizumi: *after connecting with Kyouko only to find she's experiencing a Sasaki-based 'Kiss By Proxy'* Oh, No... Not Again!

A bit more on memento mori, spoilered:

Thanks for the comments/analysis on MM, Specular. I hadn't thought much about Yuki using Kyon as a "crutch" for decision-making, and the rest is a good analysis, too.

Let's see, you did a pretty good job with that... what else can I add... well, at first Kyon's decision smacked me as a bit of a Fantastic Aesop — normal humans can't be saved from death, so I shouldn't be either even though this setting isn't normal—and Kyon's citing the ethics of forcing Haruhi to become Godruhi and forcing her onto the world like that is really the only thing that saved it from such an ignoble fate. The Soulriders in general seem to come down pretty firmly on the side of Miyazaki and Le Guin and the idea of "death is an unavoidable part of life, let's try to accept the cycle" in that particular debate, and I can see where Brian and Brian's Kyon are coming from. The thing that keeps me ambivalent about the whole thing and unwilling to agree firmly with Kyon's decision, though, isn't that he could save himself for his own sake, but that his means parting with his friends and making them go the rest of the way without him even though he had the option to stay. As you pointed out, his death affected them, and maybe it shouldn't have been his call alone to make. Ambivalence, yes?

Digging a little deeper, and embracing the Fantastic Aesop for all it's worth... it's easy to think of Kyon's insistence on dividing the "normal" and "supernatural" worlds so cleanly as a metaphor for what we're all doing here. Normal lives by day, then diving into fantastic adventures in fiction. Think of it not in terms of what Kyon's options are in a story with supernatural elements, but what are the options of a real person with an active, fantastic imagination. The most such a person can do is be happy about the life they lead and the opportunities they had, and then face death, hopefully with some acceptance and dignity. Not a thrilling set of options, but eventually, the only one left.

Difficult topic, difficult story, a fair treatment of all this difficulty, and a bit of a kick in the pants to live a little better. If you decide to write up a recommendation, Specular, I'll definitely second it. :)

edited 23rd Dec '12 5:33:07 PM by Silver

I can see where you guys are coming from in your thoughts. I do have some of my own in relation to what has been brought up. Spoilers onward, of course.

I'm not entirely sure that I do buy the premise that having Haurhi or Yuki save him would lead to him Jumping Off the Slippery Slope. To me Kyon just seems more tempered than that. I could be wrong of course, but at the same time that to me seemed like one of the largest problems. To be fair the story did bring up his reasoning behind that rather in depth though, as to why he should get special treatment when to give the same to everyone would mean denying Haruhi a chance at normalcy, and when getting just for him would be unfair to everyone else.

I completely agree with the point that Kyon's life isn't just his own. However, I think the nature of the story can't help but point that out. In doing so though, consider that hundreds, if not thousands of people are put through the same trials each day when they lose loved ones, sometimes in manners far more abrupt than a terminal illness. Life can end without rhyme or reason, and not as many have a chance to even say proper goodbyes to begin with. I think that it doesn't come down to the fact that he's somehow fine with the fact he's dying, I think that when Haurhi told him that the stoic act was bullshit that she hit the nail on the head.

Continuing on from that, I'm not sure that Kyon could readily explain to someone who was in his situation, because his advantages aren't just something that one can dismiss as simply as "well, if you're rich you have access to better treatment," or the like. He knows that he has not one but two beings capable of making him better, but to him that's like winning the lottery. It's the matter that his advantage literally is unique to him alone. I know it's a rather grim interpretation, but I could easily see him being guilty for living if he had chosen to, because unless the aforementioned God!Haruhi scenario took place it would be something that only he himself could ever take advantage of.

I won't argue that choosing to die when you could have lived is selfish, because I can't argue that. However, in regards to the From Bad to Worse scenario, I think that Kyon, above everyone else, had confidence that wouldn't happen. Think about it, if Haruhi's powers had started overriding things, then he would have gotten better, even if it was a completely miraculous recovery. Likewise, even though it's completely against her nature Yuki could have taken things into her own hands (especially if the IDSE ordered her to in order to prevent a Worst Case Scenario) but didn't. Likewise, the fact that Mikuru (Big) exists at all means that there has to be a future. The sentiment in this story besides his own mortality is that he trusts his friends — which of course includes Haruhi — enough for them to be able to accept what's happening to him. It's something that everyone, even a group with their gifts, eventually has to face. As I've mentioned above, people sometimes don't even have the luxury of being able to make final peace.

In the end I can't say whether or not his decision was right or wrong. I can however, understand and respect the justification behind it. I think that might have been the entire point. That could just be me though.

This will be no surprise to anyone who's seen my opinions on ethics, but my view is that not only should Kyon have Haruhi cure him, but he should also encourage her to use her powers for the general benefit of humanity — regardless of whether he's dying, for that matter.

Honestly, how many millions of people should suffer just to avoid potentially putting a burden on one person? It wouldn't be all on her, anyway, since she could just create a transhuman friendly AI or convince the IDSE to aid human advancement.

The biggest concern would be Haruhi's mental health, but that's a problem either way, and if she's aware of her abilities, she'd be better equipped to deal with that sort of thing.

And yet again the thread is white as snow. You'd have thought there was a new chapter out.

edited 24th Dec '12 2:42:55 AM by Sinclair

And Now For Something Completely Different...

I have decided to get some training in the usage of git, mainly by downloading a e-book about the subject, so I'll actually be getting myself on track to actually being able to learn to update the version of K:BDH that I have, so that it's the current one, kitsu. It shouldn't take long, so I'll contact someone on the irc when I got something, or if I somehow screw up...

Probably too late to say it, but I hope you all have had an amazing Christmas! That includes any troper, lurker, automated search engine, rouge A.I. and any person unlucky enough to end here while looking for Haruhi or Higurashi related pictures in Google.

Re. Memento Mori.

I don't think I can say a lot more about the story. I mean, I could propose a few points, but it would overlap with many similar discussions about the trope Reed Richards Is Useless.

Random pictures.

• Gungnir? Is that you?◊ (Source◊)
• I think now I get why Puyo, the mangaka responsible for The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya Chan and The Vanishing of Nagato Yuki-chan, drew several illustrations of Sasaki some time ago. Spoiler◊ pics◊ of the latter (ch. 39, vol. 5).
• That hardly seems fair...◊^* I mean, it's just one army and he already got a crowbar (Full size)

Random thought.

In one of those strange moments where weird ideas just pop up in my head, I ran a quick similarities/differences analysis between kbdh!Achakura and Reinforce Zwei from StrikerS.

The first thing I noticed was that Achakura surely would look pretty good in Zwei's barrier jacket◊ (Source◊)... but I digress. The second thing I wondered was if Achakura could act as an Unison Device for Kyon, which in tropey-speak means if it would be possible for them to implement a "Power Booster" type of Fusion Dance.

Let's say Kyon has to fight a superior enemy without the help of the rest of the Brigade. If he can't win on his own and running away a Tactical Withdrawal is not an option, a somewhat logical (narratively speaking) course of action would be to summon a full-sized Ryouko to fight for him. The problem is that would incur in a tactical disadvantage from the get-go, namely she would have to fight and protect Kyon at the same time. A middle ground idea around this could be to give him Powers Via Fusion by enhancing the interface with his equipment with Ryouko managing the technical aspects and allowing "them" to fight on a higher lever of performance.

The thing I'm not sure about is Kyon's Psychic Block Defense. On the one hand it would impede any mental connection between him and Achakura, so they would have to rely on something less esoteric (and probably less efficient) like an neural implant and/or lots of training. One the other hand, this limitation could be a good thing. As de-powered as she may be, Asakura is still a data-entity whose (equivalent of) mental processes most likely would easily overwhelm any human brain.

Mmmm... In hindsight, I give this idea a 6 on a "crack-o-meter" scale of one to ten. Not that bad.

As perhaps the follower of the thread with the most knowledge of Lyrical Nanoha as a whole, including all of the expanded and AU materials, Asakuira as a Unison Device would be extremely interesting to see. Not only has she taken the first step by having already been converted into a program, but the actual capability to Unison can most likely be added through the creation of an additional memetic link.

Also, LOL at Gungnir being Raising Heart in its AEC Strike Cannon configuration. I fear for Kyon's enemies.

At no point shall this Fusion Dance involve Kyon getting Asakura's hair, Sailor Fuku, and figure. If it happens, I will destroy it with the power of my mind.

edited 28th Dec '12 9:20:39 PM by Silver

Achakura already has a magical girl form, courtesy of Haruhi-chan volume 7.

And speaking of Higurashi/Haruhi crossovers, this is a most unexpected◊ kind of crossover indeed. I'd take bets, but I'm obviously biased.

edited 28th Dec '12 10:43:17 PM by Grahf

Whoever said that a Fusion Dance has to involve the subjects' souls/minds undergoing fusion as well? It could just be a physical merger that leaves Kyon's mind in "administrator"-level authority over all of his bodily functions, while Asakura operates as an interface between Kyon's mind and his new, unfamiliar "functions" that takes his (usually broad) commands, determines the "function(s)" that would fulfill those commands the best, and applies them.

@Jbstormburst:

If I'm allowed to take you by your word, I have a few questions. How Telepathy works in the Lyrical Nanoha series?

IINM, there is a simple version that doesn't include Mind Reading, something more akin to a bi-directional radio transceiver. According to my understanding, it works like the most common form of telepathy in Negima, i.e. by transmitting sound waves (subvocal speech, I think?) through a medium other than air (I think it wasn't mentioned in the manga proper though). Considering the level of Magitek present in Nanoha, I suspect there are encoding protocols, real-time encryption algorithms and relay systems involved.

In the particular case of Unison, how depth is the mental connection involved? User and Device can obviously speak to each other, but what else? As long as we can avoid Hand Wave territory, how do they coordinate their actions? Mental Fusion? Electronic Telepathy? Simply lots of training so they will just know what the other wants to do at a given moment?

If it goes too much off-topic, please send me your thoughts via PM.

@Silver:

Be afraid not. AFAIK, appearance-wise, the changes caused by a successful unison are more in line with a Palette Swap than anything (Exhibit A). That said, I still think Kyon would look pretty awesome with a slightly longer blue hair and blue eyes. At the very least it goes with the color of his Laser Blade.

@Grahf:

Achakura already has a magical girl◊ form, courtesy of Haruhi-chan volume 7.

Funnily enough, IIRC that form is the result of a Fusion Dance between Achakura and Kimidori-san (the dog) caused by Cross Counter. It's that kind of series.

BTW, one pixiv user took the time to make a colored version of "Space Girl Magical★Ryouko" (Exhibit B).

And speaking of Higurashi/Haruhi crossovers, this is a most unexpected◊ kind of crossover indeed. I'd take bets, but I'm obviously biased.

Wait a minute, are there female divisions of Mixed Martial Arts? Nice detail with the mouthguard though *shakes head*. I have the nagging suspicion Kyon could enjoy this hypothetical fight as long as it doesn't descend into No-Holds-Barred Beatdown levels, can you tell why?

About the fight itself, I'm not really sure. It would depend on the rules of engagement. With no limitation, it can't be considered a fight. If restricted to the "limits of human ability" and no weapons, it would be a tough call. Mion (assuming that's her, of course) is canonically a strong hand-to-hand fighter, but Ryouko could still compute and execute improbable yet possible feats of martial skill, something similar to Yuki under Sasaki's Power Nullifier.

@Marq FJA:

It didn't mean to imply a Mental Fusion, I just thought a regular interface would mean low reaction times.

Let's see, on the "input" side of the connection, things looks good. We already know for a fact Kyon can see Achakura's Augmented Reality constructs, so perhaps a further level of Electronic Telepathy/Brain/Computer Interface could work around his Psychic Block Defense. Maybe something designed to enhance his senses would be good, perhaps some sort of mechanically-assisted Kung-Fu Clairvoyance or something akin to Hitman Absolution Instinct Mode mechanics, which could provide him with Improbable Aiming Skills, statistical prediction of enemy movement, relevant real-time information à la Detective Mode from Batman: Arkham City, "basic math"◊, etc.

The "output" would be a problem without an equivalent of a Psychic Link. A "cybernetic" approach would be as problematic as Kyon trying to learn how to use a prehensile tail and any typical user interface is downright impractical if he has to move his body at the same time (ex. push a sequence of AR-based buttons while launching and redirecting punches). Now I think about it, I wonder how exactly time travelers control their AR interfaces (potential reverse engineering?)... Anyway, it occurs to me that a possible workaround could be the "System Assist" from Sword Art Online. Probably an explanation is in order though.

In this series, most of the plot happens inside of MMORPG-styled Computer Worlds where the characters' fighting prowess is determined by RPG mechanics (level, stats, skills, etc.) and how skilled they are at handling the UI in their advantage. You see, when the player sends the right sequence motor signals to the machine (or the right incantation in the case of magic), the system recognize it as a user command and move his or her Digital Avatar accordingly, even if the player doesn't have the required physical aptness for it in real life. In Kyon and Achakura's case, this would mean that Kyon would relinquish partial control of his body to her in exchange of being able to execute difficult tasks (like precise physical manoeuvres coupled with complex weaponry usage) activated by abbreviated neural commands from him.

Another way to speed up things could be by dreaming or inducing Kyon into some sort of trance. As the movie Inception suggests, if the brain doesn't have to administrate the body and sort out its sensory input, it could be theoretically possible to devote such processing power to something else, stretching the subjective time available to do it as a side effect.

Dang, I wish I could blame Christmas holiday drinks for these ideas .

edited 29th Dec '12 9:10:40 AM by Specular

Personally, I'm more willing to believe that Nonoko is going to be the one who performs the Unison with Achakura, instead of Kyon, even if that doesn't seem to make sense storywise.

Also, if anything, I think that Kyon and Ryoko might be against the idea, for various reasons*

I'm more willing to believe that he would sooner fuse with Kuyou than Achakura. Kuyou would benefit from Kyon's Psychic Block Defense, protecting her from the Combine's influence by "synchronizing" with Kyon, and Kyon would still have Achakura assisting him, as she is linked to Kuyou and can help her in managing those sort of powers. Also, Kuyou can help counter the Combine Advisors's Telekinesis point for point and then some, effectively shutting down their primary offense.

And seriously, I think that Kuyou would like the idea of being "that close" to him. Probably.

edited 30th Dec '12 8:54:37 PM by MadKitsu

On the subject of Nanoha (which I just started watching a few weeks ago myself), Nonoko's incantations seem to be more subtle Nanoha references, especially her transformation one. I saw Nanoha use the words "set up" and was like "waaaaaaait a minute..." I literally paused the video right there and went to tvtropes to see if someone had listed Nanoha in the BDH Shout-Out page. (Which they had, I take no credit for that entry. )

edited 30th Dec '12 9:25:18 PM by Eamil