has made a decision that all articles in the Let's Play namespace (list of pages in that namespace) should be moved to other namespaces.
Since let's plays are usually video-based, the target namespace is usually WebVideo/. However, some are text-based, and the consensus was to handle the namspacing of those on a case-by-case basis, with Blog/, Fanfic/, and Literature/ brought up as potential targets.
Before any given article is transplanted, we should confirm that it meets the standards for being a TV Tropes work article. Note that these often serve as hybrid articles for their creators in much the same way as the Music namespace. If there is insufficient content, the articles end up becoming about the creators, violating our "no troping real people" policy.
The crucial question is whether the article has any tropable, creative content. This means that it's more than just "Alisha plays games and makes faces." What counts as tropable, creative content? Here are some examples.
- Creating a fictional/roleplaying narrative that is distinct from the game being played or the real person doing the LP.
- Using the game as a medium to craft original content: songs, videos, machinima, and so on.
- "MST'ing" or creatively riffing on the game's content, as long as it's sufficiently transformative.
What are not criteria for a tropable Let's Play by themselves?
- Adopting a quirky personality, cracking jokes, making funny faces, or overreacting to jump scares.
- Cosplaying, playing with toys, unboxing merchandise, etc.
- Having a "gimmick" that makes them stand out, such as a repeated Catchphrase, eating loudly on microphone, or calling their viewers "Doggo fam".
- Playing games in a particular way (speedrunning, evil runs, no-kill runs, etc.) that fall within what it is possible to do in the game itself, with or without mods.
- Modding the game.
- Being very popular.
- Having lots of memes arise in their fandom.
Note that the same general principles apply to any Web Video creator, especially those whose main work is in news, reviews, vlogging, and/or reaction videos.
There are a few outliers that will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
- After-Action Report: I would move it to literature, although it could be considered fanfic.
- Liveblogs, which are probably not tropable.
Web Video cleanup sandbox
This project has several purposes related to all things Web Video:
- Cleaning up the WebVideo index
- Cleaning up the WebVideo/ namespace to move pages that belong elsewhere
- Cleaning up individual Web Video pages that have massive issues
Overview
The easy-seeming part when I started on Web Video (the index) was just removing things not even located in the namespace— found in Creator, Film, Web Animation, etc. Then I started noticing there were many things put in Web Video (the namespace) that were basically Creator pages, lots of Let's Play, other video game streaming that doesn't currently have an index, other misuses in index and/or namespace placement...
- original live action, meaning not animated or reusing existing footage;
- narrative/creative, a bit unclear, but it's not someone simply reviewing another work/reacting to other works/playing through another work;
- a work, which is... a work, not a creator.
) is much more broad:
"Live-action videos and video-based Lets Plays originally or only released online. Covers both YouTube videos and web-exclusive series, but does not include those that belong in the WebAnimation/ namespace. For big-budget series exclusive to streaming services such as Netflix, use Series/ or the appropriate animation namespace instead." — Not limited to original or live action footage, narrative works, etc. However, people have mistakenly created Web Animation pages in this namespace, made what are essentially creator pages, typed it as "Webvideo", etc.
:
Reaction channels tend to straddle a line here, but are not generally tropable unless they create some sort of distinct creative endeavor rather than stare at a video and laugh a bit. Also it helps if they are reacting to fiction, not to real life. The latter may be entertaining but falls into the same general category as gossip. We can trope these only for their use of production and artistic tropes, not for their topics.
-
No Analysis Channel index— corrected! - No index for non-Let's Play video game streaming unless they're on Twitch. If they don't fall into the Let's Play format and aren't on Twitch, where do they go?
- No
Gag Dub orGag Sub index - Where should we put channels based on prank calls, scam-baiting, other audio-based things where the video is incidental?
Pages identified for cleanup:
- A Dose of Buckley — see this ATT for more info
- The Mysterious Mr. Enter and subpages — issues include troping the creator and not the works
- The Nostalgia Critic and subpages — see this project thread
- Smosh and subpages — Smosh is a channel, and the pages have multiple works (may need a hard split)
- Thomas Sanders — Creator, lots of biographical details, previously hard split for Sanders Sides but may need another
See also:
- Cleanup: Review/Let's Play YMMV Tropes
- TLP: Actual Play genre/index
Just the index cleanup itself is a considerable project, figuring out what stays and what needs a different index, but there are also many pages with significant issues to clean. This is a very big project, but I've seen other people notice these issues, too. I hope we can at least get the index under control.
(![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
For clarity and re: review stuff. Continue to edit as things occur that are useful to keep at the top of the thread.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:02:00 AM
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Related is Meme House. I guess under Fighteer's criteria it isn't tropable? There's kind of a story, but it isn't really taken seriously. Is that enough to keep it?
And what should happen to the similar series Vinesauce Tomodachi Life?
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think the Wiki Talk discussion determined that the creators do attempt to make a narrative with a cast of fictional characters, and it's a work of comedy.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Sims is an interesting one because it's the sort of game that forces you to build characters and make some sort of narrative, even if that narrative is "watch the sims exist on free will and laugh at them".
Captain Sauce's Sims playthrough actually incorporates a lot of pre-scripted events and clever editing to create specific storylines, but I wouldn't say that every playthrough of the game needs to be that creative in order to count as some sort of narrative.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
For what it's worth, Tomodachi Life is kind of similar to The Sims in the sense that both involve customizing characters and interacting with them, except it uses Miis instead of a game-specific avatar system.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 9th 2022 at 4:34:28 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Lost in Space
Life simulation games have emergent narratives built into the design. What matters is how creative the Let's Player gets with those narratives. Again, the distinction is that they must add substantial creative content to the experience of playing the game, not just stare at the screen and laugh or cry or shriek in mock fear.
If we are treated to the story of high-school dropout Stan and his efforts to woo a series of increasingly annoyed women while failing to hold down a job within the framework of The Sims, that is a fictional narrative and is completely tropable.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:42:10 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
NGL that sounds like a funny premise on its own.
Anyway I think the two Vinesauce streams I mentioned can stay since they technically do have plots, and are thus tropable.
How about videogamedunkey? Is that tropable?
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Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I haven't seen Meme House, but I have seen Vinesauce Tomodachi Life (plus I made that boring Vineschnoz Mii Vinny added via QR Code near the end of the series) and I can confirm that it's more plot-driven than most of Vinny's streams.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 9th 2022 at 4:54:17 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
How would we treat challenge runs, like the 100 Babies Challenge? A lot of Sims players on YouTube don't make long narratives, but rather short videos to explore a specific gimmick or put their sims in weird situations to see what happens.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The first folder already covers how we treat challenge runs.
- Adopting a quirky personality, cracking jokes, making funny faces, or overreacting to jump scares.
- Cosplaying, playing with toys, unboxing merchandise, etc.
- Having a "gimmick" that makes them stand out, such as a repeated Catchphrase, eating loudly on microphone, or calling their viewers "Doggo fam".
- Playing games in a particular way (speedrunning, evil runs, no-kill runs, etc.) that fall within what it is possible to do in the game itself, with or without mods.
- Modding the game.
- Being very popular.
- Having lots of memes arise in their fandom.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:06:00 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Alright, sounds good, missed that bit.
Does make me wonder about the "acting like a sim IRL" challenges I've seen though, because those don't just use the gimmicks in the game but also involve acting, editing, and a script of sorts. I think they're a bit more tropeable.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 9th 2022 at 6:10:33 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Wow I didn't know that! Cool!
Anyway I didn't get an opinion on this so I'll ask again: what to do with videogamedunkey? He has some original songs and stuff, but most of his content is not transformative enough to really be troped. Do we keep the page just for the songs and stuff?
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Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think so? He makes creative content, it's just not most of the content.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
Doesn't he do reviews mostly? Check which of the tropes aren't Discussed Trope and see what it leaves you with. If he does other stuff, that could be kept as well.
Edited by Amonimus on Mar 9th 2022 at 2:14:41 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Angry babby
It's already in Web Video, but I can affirm Game Grumps can stay since their Running Gags and animated videos provide a sort of framework for how they approach the games they play. However, there's a real-life troping issue with the Characters page that should be addressed. There's an element of Adam Westing in some regards (Arin jokingly playing up his anger and flirting with dudes more than his real life self) but it's really not enough to make them new characters, but some things might be worth noting if they're joked about (i.e. I think I added Has a Type because Arin's colleagues make fun of him for it on the show).
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, I think Game Grumps could probably use a dedicated cleanup TBH.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
PewDiePie is probably good enough to move? Not only has he done some transformative let's plays (most famously his Minecraft series), but he's done a lot of content outside of let's play.
The page could, however, stand a cleanup.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
LetsPlay.Call Me Kevin can also be moved, his playthroughs are way more about being creative, playing the game in weird ways, and playing as a specific character rather than just playing normally. Not to mention his whole Sims thing that has recurring characters and lore, like Jim Pickins the cult leading Serial Killer.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 9th 2022 at 7:10:27 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Angry babby
I'm not familiar with the show but I think Markiplier has recurring characters and plotlines that warrant it moving to Web Video. I think Jacksepticeye does too?
Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 9th 2022 at 7:22:14 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Lost in Space
Some people may have noticed that my irritation at Let's Players who "shriek at a camera for lulz" is mainly directed at PDP, but he does make other creative content. I should also note that if he participates in an acting or production role for content outside of his YouTube channel, that would make him eligible for a Creator article, if we don't have one already. That would use his real name.
In that sense it would be similar to the distinction between, say, The Beatles and Paul McCartney, although that is a poor example because his career outside The Beatles is also in music.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 9th 2022 at 7:27:28 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
the Retromancer
Markiplier always went back and forth between gaming and live-acting sketches, and lately has been trying more acting career for Youtube Original shows he directs himself, as well as several podcasts. Though don't recall if he's ever acted in a real movie.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lost in Space
Toby Turner has also acted in films that he did not produce himself, although it's worth noting that his Creator article redirects to Tobuscus.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
At the very least, I know for a fact that Mark has acted in several Ninja Sex Party music videos.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Friends forevermore
I don't believe there was ever a crowner to deprecate LetsPlay/. Even if it seems obvious for video LPs, a crowner would also help with the text LP namespace decision.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I know we're talking about the Let's Play namespace but can we still discuss other Web Video pages besides those here? Because last I checked (and its in the OP) The Mysterious Mr. Enter was filled with Real Life troping and troping of his opinions.
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I didn't know Fighteer was already editing the opening post, so sorry about the Edit Stomp.
Anyway, I put the text I added in my version in a folder to solve the length issue (and changed a reference to the LetsPlay/ namespace to reference the WebVideo/ namespace instead).
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.