During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Oh fuck yeah, he has a page ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Found and cut this off the YMMV page for the fanfic ‘’Robb Returns’’.
- Magnificent Bastard: Jon Arryn shows unexpected levels of this. When Baelish is captured, he makes sure to put him in a situation where he will die no matter what, seizes everything that Littlefinger owned and warns all the Lords Paramount about the event, telling them they can claim Littlefinger's businesses in their respective kingdoms, which (a) allows them to get money that will be fundamental for the soon-to-come war and (b) helps to erase the debt the Crown owes to the Lannisters, since the worth of the businesses (all paid with the Crown's money) in the Westerlands is much greater than said debt. Tywin Lannister, of all people, is grudgingly impressed. Annoyed, but impressed.
There are some issues with Edelgard's Magnificent Bitch page for Fire Emblem: Three Houses as written that I feel should be fixed. It should go from...
- Edelgard von Hresvelg is the heiress to the Ardrestrian Empire and successor to her father, Ionius IX as his sole surviving heir and leader of the Black Eagle House. She kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the students of Garreg Mach Monastery assassinated by bandits, particularly Claude of Golden Deer, and her step-brother, Dimitri of Blue Lions. Her goal: To take back the monastery from the corrupt Church of Seiros. After aligning with Byleth after they join her, she has them incapacitated so they are unable to stop her from declaring war on the Church as well as the Leicester Alliance and The Kingdom of Faerghus. In the Crimson Flower Route, she ends up killing Rhea, the Archbishop who, was actually the daughter of the goddess, and conquers the entire Fòdlan continent, while executing Dimitri. In the other routes she is bested, and accepts her fate to be executed by Dimitri, or Byleth in the Golden Deer path. Despite her cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, she succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fòdlan to its knees, as well as removing the corrupt influence of the Church and "those who slither in the dark".
...to...
- Edelgard von Hresvelg is the heiress to the Adrestian Empire and successor to her father, Ionius IX as his sole surviving heir and leader of the Black Eagle House. She kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the students of Garreg Mach Monastery assassinated by bandits, particularly Claude of the Golden Deer, and her step-brother, Dimitri of the Blue Lions. Her goal: To take back Fódlan from the Church of Seiros, which she views as corrupt. If Byleth refuses to join her, she has them incapacitated so they are unable to stop her from declaring war on the Church as well as the Leicester Alliance and the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus. On the Crimson Flower route, she conquers the entire continent and overcomes every potential obstacle to her ambitions, either by swaying them to her cause (Byleth), killing them (Dimitri and Rhea, the Archbishop who was actually the daughter of the goddess), or exiling them (Claude, at the player's discretion). On the other routes, despite being bested, she calmly accepts her execution at the hands of either Byleth (Silver Snow/Verdant Wind) or Dimitri (Azure Moon). Despite her cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth, are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, she succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fódlan to its knees, her actions pave the way for the societal reforms she dreamed of, and she removes the corrupt influence of "those who slither in the dark".
Most of these are just grammatical touch-ups and wording, but there are a couple changes of substance. Edelgard and Dimitri shouldn't link to Villain Protagonist and Hero Antagonist because that only applies to one route out of four - Edelgard is an antagonist outside of Crimson Flower and Dimitri is a protagonist on Azure Moon and basically inconsequential on Silver Snow/Verdant Wind. In addition, Edelgard's objective is clearly to remove the Church from power across the whole continent, not just the monastery, and whether the Church is corrupt or not is a matter of perspective. Finally, Edelgard incapacitating Byleth if they join her is factually wrong; she only does so if they don't join her, and Rhea is the one who knocks them out if they do join her.
Edited by infernape612 on Mar 17th 2020 at 1:07:47 PM
Does it have to be that long? I guess it’s workable since it’s such a vast game but please trim it if you can. I’m going to have to relink all the character stuff (those tropes are going, so don’t worry about them). Otherwise can anyone verify all the info is correct? This one’s starting to give me a headache and I’d like to see it put to bed.
All right, let me give it a shot.
- Edelgard von Hresvelg is the heiress to the Adrestian Empire and successor to her father, Ionius IX as his sole surviving heir and leader of the Black Eagle House. She kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the heirs apparent of the other nations, Dimitri of Faerghus and Claude of Leicester, assassinated by bandits. Her goal: To take back Fódlan from the Church of Seiros, which she views as corrupt. If Byleth refuses to join her, she has them incapacitated so they are unable to stop her from declaring war on the Church, Faerghus, and Leicester. On the Crimson Flower route, she conquers the continent and overcomes every potential obstacle to her ambitions, either by swaying them to her cause, killing them, or exiling them. On the other routes, despite being bested, she calmly accepts her execution. Despite her cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth, are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, she succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fódlan to its knees, her actions pave the way for the societal reforms she dreamed of, and she removes the corrupt influence of "those who slither in the dark".
Also, here's some links to the scene where Byleth is incapacitated. This version is what happens if you're allied with the Church (the pale sorcerer dude is nominally Edelgard's ally, for those who've never played the game), and this version is what happens if you're allied with Edelgard.
Also, I just noticed that the original version misspelled "Adrestian" as "Ardrestrian".
Edited by infernape612 on Mar 17th 2020 at 1:05:38 PM
Thank you there, I'm just going to fix the potholes and I'll submit it along with the batch.
Alright, so I'm stuck inside, and having just finished a playthrough of one of my favorite games, with a fan comic from one of my favorite characters/bosses.
What's the work?
Lady Maria and the Old Hunters is a Bloodborne fan comic by Qizeaqfile taking place long before the main game begins and the city of Yharnam goes to hell in a handbasket...the heroine? Maria of Cainhurst.
Maria is a young woman from Cainhurst Castle, famed for its blood arts which later gave the name Vilebloods and led to their extermination....Cainhurst is ruled by the immortal, wicked Queen Annalise, Maria's distant relative who Maria despises...and then? Maria's carriage is set upon by beasts, her parents slaughtered. She is rescued by Gehrman, the first of the Hunters, warriorswho imbue themselves with the Old Blood to give them the strength to face the beasts...but carries enormous risks. Maria becomes Gehrman's apprentice and resolves to hunt Beasts with her own strength and weaponry and not Cainhurst's loathed blood abilities.
Maria is brought to Byrgenwerth College, a place of learning that discovered remnants of an old civilization of a race called the Pthumerians, who contacted the otherworldly Great Ones and led to the source of the old blood...Maria grows to become a hunter, and the tragedy that awaits her in the story proper. Now, the recent arc has concluded, leading me to propose this character. I give you Alice of Cainhurst.
Who is Alice?
A Knight of Cainhurst and a Hunter for Queen Annalise. Alice grew up with Maria as a childhood friend, adoring Maria for her strength. One night, when they snuck out of their rooms, they witnessed the monstrous Queen Annalise feeding her blood to other would-be knights. All but one died and Annalise drained their blood to feed herself, leaving Maria with a deep loathing of her relative. Alice was much weaker than Maria and terrified of Cainhurst, she attached herself to Maria to survive.
Then...Maria's tragedy occurred and she vanished, leaving Alice alone in the monstrous Cainhurst. With no recourse, Alice purged away her innocence, becoming a Knight to Annalise and a master of the Blood Arts...and eventually became a hunter for Annalise, taking the blood of others to feed the Queen. Upon meeting Maria again in a seeming diplomatic mission, Alice is genuinely delighted to greet her friend again and pretty much seduces her, forming a plot at hand. Alice tricks Maria and the Hunters into the 'diplomacy,' showing her around Byrgenwerth...all while noting its weaknesses and passages while acting a silly, airy young woman to get to her goal: the recovered blood of Queen Yharnam of the Pthumerians to feed Annalise. Killing several Hunters to recover it with a Knight of Cainhurst (later known as The Bloody Crow), Alice escapes with the blood...knowing Maria will catch up, she uses herself and the Crow as bait while entrusting a scholar with them to return the blood to the queen, leading to a duel with Maria.
Maria is the stronger of the two...until Alice utilizes her blood blades. Pushing Maria to the limits, Alice furiously denounces her for leaving her alone in Cainhurst and tells her all she went through just to survive under Annalise. Wanting to fight Maria in her true state, blood to blood, Alice threatens a nearby village, forcing Maria to unlock her true power....tearing Alice apart. Alice collapses into Maria's arms and reveals how much she truly loves her, before sharing a dying kiss as Maria deals the deathblow, along with recalling their childhood memories together....even as she secures the completion of mission for Annalise and achieves her freedom at Maria's hands.
How does she operate?
Alice is charming, pleasant and delightful. She's a brilliant woman who is able to even weave her way into the confidence of those who know how dangerous the Cainhurst nobility is. Even Maria falls prey to that, and Alice plays on their old friendship, while devising a plot to steal the blood of Yharnam the whole while. From the second we see Alice, her plan goes off very well....and then it's revealed she despises being Annalise's servant and wanted to force Maria to utilize her blood to kill her, wanting to die in Maria's arms to be with her forevermore. She succeeds in all of it.
Is she a bastard? Too much?
Alice is a murderer. She hunts down multiple people, Hunters and otherwise to provide blood for Annalise. She murders innocent Hunters and she has no compunction threatening the lives of others to push Maria to the limits. However, she's a sympathetic villain, with the hell of Cainhurst over her. It's a torturous existence, enslaved to Annalise...and even that aside, she's nowhere near the heinous line of Bloodborne.
And even that aside, her love for Maria is genuine and explicitly romantic by the end. Her dying words? "My love. My angel. Now we share a connection in blood. Nothing can separate us. I will be with you forevermore."
Conclusion?
I'd rate her a keep, and rather delighted at this one.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Alice
Would analise count as a cm?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
No, even setting aside Annalise's ambiguous characterization in the games and potential care for Cainhurst, she's nowhere near the heinous standard for Bloodborne....and the Executioners of the Healing Church's genocide on everyone in Castle Cainhurst is probably worse than anything Annalise herself did.
to Alice
Yes to Alice there.
to Alice
Alright so read just finished reading this fan fic, and I think that I may have a candidate to propose. The fan fic in question is called Courtney's Crusade for Redemption.
What’s The Work?
Courtney’s Crusade for Redemption is a Total Drama fan fic written by AnonBrowser that serves as a Fix Fic for its All Stars season. It focuses on Courtney who goes through a Peggy Sue and finds herself competing in All Stars again, who also happens to be my candidate and we will be discussing what she does this time around
What Does She Do?
The first thing Courtney does after her Peggy Sue takes her back to All Stars is that she pushes the Drama Machine off the dock which exposes to everyone that the Drama Machine is actually Alejandro.
However this also gets her put into the Villainous Vultures this time around while her ex-boyfriend, Duncan, gets put into the Heroic Hamsters, though she uses this opportunity to reconcile with Gwen and becomes more closer with her Love Interest Scott. It also creates a time paradox where Sierra and Duncan get eliminated earlier than they did the last time they competed in All Stars.
Also aware that Heather will try to sway her team to vote for Alejandro this time around, Courtney manages to convince her team that Heather is merely using them to eliminate her rival/lover and with that manages to orchestrate Heather’s elimination.
She also manages to find the hidden immunity idol on Boney Island and convinces Chet Hatchet to keep it safe so no one would be able to steal it. This would allow her to keep the idol and eventually use it to save herself from elimination, which leads to Cameron getting eliminated instead.
She also prevent Mike not to hit himself with a bolder rid him of his evil personality Mal, hitting him with a shovel instead, thus rather than Mal gaining complete control like before Mike is able to keep better check on Mal with Mal only popping up in random occurrences.
Despite this Courtney still attempts to get rid of Mike, to make sure that Mal won’t harm anyone whenever he pops up, but when Mike wins immunity Courtney arranges for Mike’s girlfriend, Zoey, to be eliminated instead, knowing Zoey is a great competitor, much to Mike’s dismay.
Before Zoey’s elimination however, Courtney was able to collaborate with Zoey to create two tape should Zoey or Mike get eliminates, to which Courtney to play one of the tapes where Zoey tells Mike to fight Mal. This leads to Mike to do exactly that, allowing him to get rid of Mal just moments before Mike himself gets eliminated, to which Courtney also choses Lindsay to be eliminated as well, taking her boyfriend Scott to the finale with her.
This leads to Scott winning the finale and splitting the million dollar prize money with Courtney, thus Courtney successfully changes to timeline to where Courtney gets half the million dollars, while also able to keep Scott and Gwen as her boyfriend and best friend respectively.
Is She Intelligent? Is She Charismatic?
Courtney manages to retain her strategic smarts and manipulativeness from the canon, while getting rid of her shrilled temperament, thus making her a much more likable character while also allowing her to play a much better game this time orchestrating several elimination, while getting her all the way to the finale this time.
While she didn’t expect to be suddenly transferred to the villains team by pushing Alejandro off the docks, she doesn’t dwell on that instead using this opportunity to make amends with Gwen and orchestrate Heather’s elimination, all while hardly loosing her cool and being more in control with her emotions.
She also manages to successfully hide the fact that she actually went back in time to alter events from everyone, with nobody ever suspecting her of doing such, thus allowing her to get the ending that she desired.
What’s The Competition Like?
Out of everyone in this fic Courtney does the most scheming managing to out-gambit Heather, while Alejandro gets eliminate before he does any scheming himself. The only competition that Courtney faces this time around is Mal, who like Courtney also orchestrated many eliminations such as Alejandro and Sam.
That said Mal doesn’t count because like in canon he’s a sadistic personality that does evil things for petty and no reasons and in the end gets out-played by Courtney who forces him to hear Zoey’s tape, allowing Mike to get rid of Mal for good. So yeah I think Courtney clears the competition here.
Is She Enough of a Bitch to Count?
Despite the fic being called Courtney’s crusade for Redemption, Courtney past as a villain from the Action and World Tour season still happened in this timeline, and Courtney has eliminated several contestants, including those who are good guys like Cameron, Zoey, and Lindsay, just so she and Scott can go to the finals together. So I would say Courtney is enough of a Bitch to still be considered.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it to you guys to decide
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 17th 2020 at 1:47:40 AM
Leaning no, sounds clever but I’ve never been a fan of labeling characters with a bad past that’s just alluded to in the work. If others are cool with the fact it’s a fan fic and willing to count it as incorporating the history from the show that’s fine but to me this is like Korosensei, with the original work itself just existing as a history referred to.
Also, the third candidate to complete the trio I wanted to discuss once more. From The Running Man:
- Magnificent Bastard: One of the most dynamic villains of 80s action cinema, Damon Killian is a smiling, charming game show host who runs and created the "Running Man" where criminals are hunted down by the state sanctioned "Stalkers". With enough power to blackmail even the dystopian government itself, Killian forces them to give him The Hero Ben Richards for the game and tricks him into participating willingly, also throwing Richards' friends into the game as Killian plays the crowd against Richards and the rest even while upping the ante to finish them off. Having any supposed winners of the show secretly murdered, Killian in effect controls the population through his shows, and when Richards threatens he will be back before being launched in the game, Killian's only response? "Only in a rerun".
Yes, he's a crossover with CM but as I recently rewatched the film, his crimes aren't so much my issue as is his presentation... Evil Is Cool? Fuck yeah but not as a Magnificent Bastard, he's a Smug Snake who's just fun to watch. As the film goes on, Killian goes from utterly in control to slowly watching his game slip from under his fingers.
He goes from taking things in stride to ranting at obstacles, like his private venting about Richards releasing the true footage of the helicopter attack ordered by the government—and a truly great moment where my girl Agnes calls Killian out "Bullshit!"—while he can only gawk as the crowd jeers him in favour of Richards.
Also while I can't hold him wholly accountable for the suits worn by the Stalkers, Captain Freedom, who ends up being the only one to survive, berates Killian for forcing them to be used and indeed most die in accidents related to them, leaving when Killian refuses to simply allow him to have a fistfight with Richards.
In general his treatment of his men is abysmal and though his Bad Boss antics are generally funny (see him ordering "that asshole" janitor fired for spilling water on his shoes) this kind of talk ends up coming to bite Killian in the ass hard. In his final confrontation with Richards, his own Dragon refuses to defend him because he earlier made a steroid crack about the man... which leads to his death. Now, I get Hans had a brief joke made after he lands on the car but Killian's came across as complete comedy at his expense to me: after trying to sound tough to Richards, he's launched into his own game while he screams the whole way down—and they did not make this one a short scene—before he's hilariously fired through a poster of himself and killed.
Now maybe I could cut him a little more leeway if there was some kind of interest within him about bettering society, discouraging crime or the like but no, it's just about making money to him, which makes it all the more tougher for me to call the guy "Magnificent" much as I love the dude.
As before this one with Neil and Lordgenome, the floor's open to counterpoints, so let's get this one going. Thoughts on cutting Killian?
Edited by 43110 on Mar 17th 2020 at 11:46:01 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Sounds like a cut.
Yes to Alice. Abstain on the Total Drama fanfic candidate. Cut Killian.
Lizzid people!
Since I knew Killian would be next on the chopping block, I'll give a yes to cut him.
Well we’re at it did anyone wanna weigh in on G’s post? I don’t want this nabbing all the attention. Both need to be voted on.
Lizzid people!
I'll read it in a bit.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Abstain on above.
So, I have another easy keeper.
What's the work?
1bit Heart is a game from the creator of LiEat, from which I got my last candidate. The gameplay is an interesting alternation between two types. The main gameplay, the Talking Time/Discussion mode, is basically Ace Attorney style gameplay, specifically the trials; the game also has a Free Time/friend making system that is basically the same as Danganronpa's.
So, the story. 20 Minutes into the Future, In a World… where Everything Is Online. People can connect to each other's minds if they have the proper training, and everything is connected through the Master Program. Nanashi, real name Yoshi Nanase, is a shut-in with hideous self-esteem issues who lives with his bro/cousin Mikado Aisaka, the creator of the Master Program. One day, Nanashi stumbles upon Misane Mikoto, a strange and amnesiac girl who accompanied him in trying to make friends. But soon, the two must thwart a dastardly plot by hackers to gain control of the Master Program and use it to possess people.
As the duo sets out to stop the hackers, it becomes apparent that there is a mastermind behind them. It only takes about until chapter 3, though, before Nanashi is able to piece together the truth and realizes who the big boss is.
Spoilers onward, in case you decide to play the game. I doubt it will be heeded, but whatever.
So, only someone with intimate knowledge of the Master Program could possibly try to hack into it. That leads us to... Mikado, the creator of the program who turns out to be the Big Bad and Nanashi's evil future self all along.
Who is Mikado Aisaka/the future Yoshi Nanase/Nanashi? What does he do?
So, let us start from the beginning. Misane is also from the future, the same one where Mikado is from. In the backstory, Mikado aided in the construction of the original Master Program at the behest of his ”bigshot” bosses. But said bosses used the program to enslave everyone's minds, creating a society where people were “bound, in a way.” Those who did not fall victim to the mass brainwashing, like Mikado and Misane, mourned and grieved.
So Mikado set out to undo this by building a time machine and going back to the past with Misane. But whereas Misane simply wanted to prevent the Bad Future, Mikado had different ideas. He believed that people were doomed to fight and kill each other, and that the Bad Future would inevitably happen, or something worse would follow like a world war. Unless he could do something about it.
Mikado recreated the Master Program in the new time, all on his own. So skilled was he that he was able to create the program in such a way that only he could hack it- no one else could possibly figure it out. Even Izuchi, a genius hacker himself, says that he gave up trying. Though Mikado still worked for the bigshots, he made sure they would not know what he was planning. The future Nanashi puts on his Mikado disguise and introduces himself to his past self, befriending him.
Eventually, Mikado puts his plan into action. He hires a team of four skilled hackers to serve as his aides. He then uses his skills to put a firewall of sorts in their minds, to ensure that Nanashi cannot read them and thus discover his involvement. Mikado sends the hackers to cause trouble everywhere, distracting Nanashi and Misane while he goes to the 307 Tower, where the Control Room of the Master Program lies, and work unimpeded. Even when his hackers disobey his orders and betray him to cause trouble on their own, it winds up being little impediment to Mikado.
Misane, several times, indicates that she knows what is really going on with Mikado- but she cannot reveal this to Nanashi, or else Mikado will spill the fact that Misane has been lying about having amnesia to Nanashi. When Nanashi does confront him, Mikado makes good on this threat, revealing the truth. In the final chapter, he also reveals that he is the future Nanashi.
So, in the final confrontation, Mikado reveals his ultimate plan- he will do what the bigshots did, but in his own way, and this time for the greater good. He will use the Master Program to unite everyone's minds as one and stop everyone from fighting forever... and finally have Nanashi kill him, as atonement for the evil he has done to bring about world peace. In the bad ending, Nanashi does just that, and Mikado succeeds in his plan.
In the Normal End, Nanashi instead kills himself by jumping off the tower, but Mikado is his future self and thus ceases to exist. In the Good Ending, Nanashi- in a solution almost never seen- is actually able to talk Mikado out of it. Mikado, seeing that Nanashi has managed to overcome his negative self-esteem and make a lot of friends, becomes confident that the world will be fine, and calls the whole Evil Plan off, even deleting the Master Program to make sure no one else gets their hands on such dangerous power. Mikado is last seen, before heading into the future, encouraging Nanashi to keep on having faith in himself.
Magnificent?
He is somewhat of a Perpetual Smiler, just like Nanashi. He executes his plan flawlessly, with nothing hindering him- even the betrayal of the hackers is an inconvenience at best, and even then it still helps his plan because the hackers still do what he wants- to distract the heroes. He is Affably Evil all the way through, always genuinely polite and friendly. He never once loses his cool or has a Villainous Breakdown, not once. He is also never arrogant- in fact, Mikado hates himself, calling himself trash, garbage, and the like (but always with a gentle tone).
Bastard?
Not as much as Butterfly, as he never actually kills anyone, but he still tries to invoke an Assimilation Plot involving all humanity, and is willing to hire shady hackers, allowing them to possess people and cause chaos. Yet Mikado is doing this to end all wars and conflicts and prevent a Bad Future. He also wants Nanashi to kill him because he shares his self-esteem issues- he hates himself- and because he realizes, on some level, that what he is doing is wrong, so he wants to atone through death. That being said, he can be talked out of it and pull a Heel–Face Turn.
Verdict?
Easy keeper.
Edited by MasterN on Mar 17th 2020 at 6:31:32 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The Draftsman of Doom
yes there N
to Mikado and cut Killian. Yeah I had a feeling that Courtney would be a hard sell. I mean I did contemplate on wether or not she would be enough of a bastard to count, but I decided to EP her anyways since she did cause the elimination of several innocent contestants (Cameron, Zoey, Mike, Lindsay). As for the other militating factor I believe that this fan fic just incorporates the history from the show where Courtney travels back in time and changes several events. Wether she gets approved or cut will be fine by me.
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 17th 2020 at 3:52:21 AM
I'm fine with The Don instead of Big Bad for Caprice, but for Jean-Paul Valley, I'd use Azrael instead of Knight Templar.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts