During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The Moron
Alright, everything in the drafts is potholed
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
43 was giving me the go-ahead to add that entry to the SoYouWantTo.Write A Magnificent Bastard page because the show's writing caused a stir near the end - essentially he was saying that this was something that the show got right before it started getting things wrong, and that it's popular enough to justify an entry.
Although I'm just realizing a potential confusion - we are aware that I intended to add that entry to the "Greats" section, right? I'm realizing that I mentioned it in my first post but not my second.
Also, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Grimm.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 8th 2021 at 10:58:41 AM
I hate spoilers
Based on what's said in this post, it seems like the Lost characters are being approved either despite or because of certain controversies. I can't tell.
Edited by 227someguy on Apr 8th 2021 at 10:50:16 AM
Everyone look at my sandbox
to Grimm
We do a bit more than just approving entries and discussing potentials. Amongst other things, Riley and now STAR have been working hard on the "How to write an MB" page, intended for authors interested in using one in their stories and providing pointers on how to make not just an MB but one the audience can really enjoy. What STAR is doing is injecting examples to it that explain how those characters are compelling in spite of the writing issues and how they both stand out in the work. To clarify someguy, both have already been approved, this is a side page.
Grimm.
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure to Grimm.
I Dan Browned this effortpost...
What is the work?
Deception Point is a Conspiracy Thriller by Dan Brown.National Reconnaisance Office Agent Rachel Sexton is sent by US President Zachary Herney to work with oceanographer Michael Tolland and astrophysicist Dr. Corky Marlinson as they investigate a meteor which NASA discovered near Ellesmere island. The team discovers a few anomalies, and realize that the meteor is a fake.
Meanwhile, they are chased by gunmen hired to keep the conspiracy under wraps.
Turns out that neither NASA nor the President are in on the conspiracy, but Rachel's own employer is at the center of it.
Who is William Pickering, and how does he operate?
Director William Pickering is initially presented as a cold, distant man with disdain for politicians. Pickering tells Agent Rachel Sexton that the President wants to meet with her, while also claiming that the President hasn't given a reason for the meeting.
In truth, Pickering had hid a false meteor under ice, had gunmen transmit a message from a Canadian Geologist to NASA, and left it for NASA to take the credit.
From her meeting with the President, Rachel is sent to Ellesmere Island, where she meets up with the NASA administrator, as well as oceanographer Michael Tolland, and astrophysicist Corky Marlinson among others.
The scientists and Rachel bear witness to what appears to be a meteor containing signs of life. However, they discover that the meteor is fake because of several factors: the discovery of marine organisms in what is supposed to be a body of fresh water, the presence of salt in the water, and the fact that hydrogen fuel was used to artificially create the effects of the meteor.
In the meantime, Pickering has sent multiple Delta Force operatives to eliminate the scientists and Rachel to keep his conspiracy under wraps, and has also sent incriminating documents against Rachel's father, NASA opponent Senator Sedgewick Sexton, regarding a sexual affair and financial corruption to a White House staff member.
Eventually, when Rachel sends an SOS regarding her findings to the staffer in question, Pickering has the staffer killed. When Rachel sends another SOS message to her father, Pickering bides his time while a soldier retrieves the fax number. Subsequently, Pickering attempts to convince Senator Sexton that Rachel is in danger if he releases information about the meteor forgery.
Shortly thereafter, the protagonists fight their way out of trouble. Pickering is not so lucky, drowning in a whirlpool caused by a collision of his helicopter with the protagonists' boat.
Intelligence & Charisma?
Pickering is the head of an intelligence agency, so being intelligent is part of his job. While the plan does fall apart, he still manages to adapt his plans, and overall in the story, accomplish his goal of intercepting the privatization of space.Pickering's charisma stems from his dry demeanour, his love for his daughter, and his devotion to national security.
Moral Flexibility?
Pickering has an actual body count of 4, attempted body count ofMitigating Factors?
Pickering is usually calm and never gets any more than slightly on edge. He dies in a chilling manner, but it is still presented as somewhat dignified, with him hoping that his daughter never experienced such terror before her own death.
Competition?
Of the morally flexible characters, Pickering is the most intelligent and charismatic.Senator Sexton is an arrogant, misogynistic, homophobic prick, and what intelligence and charisma he has is undercut by what an ass he is.
Marjorie Tench, the white house staffer, is too much of a pawn.
Verdict?
Is dihydrogen monoxide a liquid at room temperature?
Edit: Miscounted. Point still stands.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 8th 2021 at 11:55:03 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Yea to Grimm, yea to Pickering.
Personal issues have resolved pretty painlessly, so I should be back to regular posting speed... tomorrow I'll probably have my other Shovel Knight candidate, but since Star's been going on an excellent streak, I'll also be pitching my entries for two of "The Greats" myself.
Yes to Pickering and I'm really glad to hear you're doing well Riley and happy to see any contributions you've got whenever they're ready friend 
Cao Cao, Rool, Audrey, Mike, Grady, Pilgrim, Grimm and Pickering
The Unknown Unknown
Okay, so just one EP. Happy B-Day to your boy!
Now, going back to Fire Emblem. Back in the day, BK/Zelgius, Sephiran, and Naesala were put up from the Tellius games. As our standards of evaluation evolved, I believe there might be one more candidate we should consider.
What's the work?
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn is the sequel to Path of Radiance as well as the second and finale of the Tellius duology. Set a few years after, it explores the ramifications of the events in the first game, ties loose ends, and deals with other machinations. It tells the narrative in 4 different "Parts."
Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?
The Silver-Haired Maiden, the Dawn Priestess, a Branded born of a Heron and a human, a seer, vessel to the Goddess of Chaos Yune, and a woman of a pedigree clearly of its own category: Micaiah.
Wandering in life, Micaiah was but a humble fortune teller in Daein. During this time, she met a young boy named Sothe, and they promised to look after each other forever. However, due to the fact that Micaiah was Branded, the prospect of Sothe traveling with her and catching the backlash of the prejudice she would receive was unthinkable, and with that, she left him.
Then Path of Radiance occured, involving Mad King Ashnard trying to sow a war to empower Lehran's Medallion, the Fire Emblem. Micaiah reunited with his Sothe—who was one of the Crimean soldiers serving under previous protagonist Ike—eventually, whereupon she promised never to leave him again. Good thing too because all's well that ends well... did not happen. The Empire of Begnion occupied Daein post-war, took control of Daein, and uh... ran it into the ground. Micaiah — alongside many of the people of Daein — resent their neighbors and the former heroes of the past war, blaming them for their plight. Thus, Micaiah and Sothe joined up with folks named Nolan, Edward, and Leonardo and form the Dawn Brigade, a group of freedom fighters officially led by Nolan to fight for a free Daein.
The Dawn Brigade unearth a rumor that the son of Ashnard, Prince Pelleas, is secretly raising a liberation army in Daein's Desert of Death. The Dawn Brigade finds an abandoned fort where Pelleas is supposedly hiding out, helping the then-small Liberation Army defend against the attacking Begnion soldiers. The Dawn Brigade meet up with Prince Pelleas and his assistant, Izuka. Pelleas recognizes Micaiah instantly and immediately appoints her as the vice-commander of the Daein Liberation Army. Once Daein is freed from Begnion's rule, Pelleas promotes Micaiah as the supreme commander of Daein's armies. She resolves to restore Daein to its former glory, giving farewell to some of her allies as they left for other lands.
When the Laguz Alliance learns that Begnion has committed the unforgivable crime of killing an innocent Laguz messenger, alongside being responsible for the destruction of Serenes Forest, it then declares war upon said country. King Pelleas then proceeds to order Micaiah to lead Daein's armies into battle.... on the side of Begnion. Obviously, no one can understand why Pelleas wants to do that, but there's a little thing called a Blood Pact in this world. Basically, an ironclad agreement that must be held or else a lot of people die. And poor Pelleas here got suckered into writing one with the Begnion Senate during his coronation ceremony after Daein's abdication from Begnion's rule. This essentially means that Daein is placed under full control of the Begnion Senate, and boy, those guys are DICKS.
Anyway, lots of war happens, Part 4 Endgame arrives, and eventually the Goddess of Order Ashera is interrupted from her thousand-year slumber and awakens. She petrifies everyone on the continent of Tellius, including the vast majority of Micaiah and Ike's armies. The only people who can take a stand are those placed under the protection of Yune. To help undo everything, Yune possesses Micaiah's body to explain that the only way to undo the petrification is to travel to the Tower of Guidance and defeat Ashera. Their first battle in its walls was with Lekain, still holding the Daein Blood Pact; after his defeat, Micaiah rips that fucking agreement and frees the land finally. During this time, it is revealed that Micaiah is Empress Sanaki's long-lost older sister, and the true apostle of Begnion. She fights in the final battle against Ashera, still as Yune's vessel, and through her Yune channeled all of her power to Ike to deal the final blow to Ashera.
After Ashera falls, Sanaki implores her big sister to stay in Begnion, but Micaiah would rather go where her heart is. They resolve to work to bring their countries closer than ever. Micaiah is then crowned the 15th Queen of Daein, ushering a new era of peace and prosperity after Pelleas.
Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligent, Adaptable, etc.)? Why or why not?
She is treated as hero by the people of Daein. They call her the Maiden of Dawn for her contributions to the kingdom. She is respected even by her enemies, with Ike openly saying he doesn't want to kill her should they fight in Chapter 3-13. Tibarn even spares Sothe despite her refusal to back down. She evens gets Nailah back on her side, despite her opposing her fellow laguz. She was a huge Base-Breaking Character back in the day, but she became Vindicated by History and therefore one of 'the most popular Lords for several reasons: fans have come to respect Micaiah's character and appreciate her story for being unique among Lords, Radiant Dawn become more widely talked of, and even more'' controversial Lords in Corrin and Edelgard showed up.
Micaiah acts as the leader of the Dawn Brigade, using her visions to ensure that her group doesn't get caught. The Dawn Brigade successfully liberates Daein from Begnion's grip. This involves freeing imprisoned soldiers and rescuing civilians, the latter of which was intended as a trap for her that she overcame. During the chaos of Part 3, Micaiah loses her power to see the future, but is still able to act as The Strategist to Daein. She creates a plan that involves dumping oil onto an enemy army, then using fire arrows to kill them. After becoming bedridden from the stress of war, she continue to fight and Hold the Line until a miracle saves her army.
For some snags that need mentioning? Part I Micaiah had some Idiot Ball moments. This includes wandering away from camp without telling anyone where she was going and getting cornered by Jarod and his men. The only reason she survived that is because the Black Knight showed up to bail her out. Thankfully, this is just Part 1, and from then on, she shows much improvement and doesn't do dumb things like that anymore. Having to pick up Pelleas's slack since he got duped into making a Blood Pact causes her some stress, but she very much earns her happy ending. How Pelleas is dealt in your first playthrough has his mother call them out on killing him over a glorified guess, but subsequent playthroughs have Micaiah take a better option, so I think we can pass on this.
Micaiah does her best to navigate past the Blood Pact, and she gets Daein her freedom—even if she does some dark deeds as you will see below.
And, finally, one last thing to clear up... Her relationship with Sothe. She's old enough that she looked after Sothe when he was really little, and their automatic A-Support means you will have go out of your way not to make them married by the end of the game. They're also treated as a canon Official Couple. But. BUT. She was still young enough to be Sanaki's sister, and the chronology puts an age ceiling over her end to make the gap a few years at best. By the time they even reunite, Sothe is in his early adulthood and therefore grown enough to make his own choices and spent ample time away from Micaiah (see Path of Radiance). In fact, Sothe is the more proactive one in starting the relationship. So, no, I don't think there's anything skeevy on this part to disqualify Micaiah.
Bastard? Not too much of one?
During Part 3, Micaiah leads Daein's army to war against the Laguz Alliance despite them having done next to nothing wrong. She commits these actions despite Sothe having once been an ally of some of the heroes, making his decision to fight them harder. At one point, she tries to lead an army of knights and the apostle into a trap that would have them all killed; this leaves the heroes on the other side disturbed. When Tibarn kidnaps Sothe and threatens his life if she doesn't surrender, Micaiah has a My God, What Have I Done? moment.
Now, that alone might not be quite enough... So, how does she meet the quota? I believe one tactic she employs is too dark not to be considered. In Part 3, Micaiah has prepared a canyon full of Laguz and allies to be doused in oil and lit aflame. Yes, you heard right, for the sake of Daein, Micaiah had prepared to set a bunch of folks on fire, including Begnion's child empress Sanaki (who we all later learn is Micaiah's sister). Although circumstances and a change of heart thankfully averted this tragedy, it speaks miles to Micaiah's morally ambiguous nature, and those with knowledge of the matter were disturbed.
She deeply regrets using oil against the Laguz Alliance and views her actions in the war as Necessarily Evil. During said war, she becomes a Well-Intentioned Extremist who truly wants to save Daein. After seeing no further reason to fight enemies she doesn't hate, Micaiah pulls a Heel Face Turn and spends the rest of the game as the Deuteragonist. There's even a moment where she gives Sothe permission to rejoin Ike, whom he worships.
She may be at worst an Anti-Heroine, but before Three Houses came along, Micaiah was distinguishably the most morally gray Lord of the franchise, and it shows.
Competition?
Tellius has no shortage of planners and schemers. The Begnion Senate manipulated Sanaki and Sephiran for their own slimy ends. Micaiah had to reluctantly help them against the Laguz Alliance because of the Blood Pact on Pellas and, by extension, her and Daein itself. Much of them are scumbags who get theirs at the Tower in Part 4. She gets the last laugh.
Ashnard stoked the fires of war to generate enough energy for Lehran's Medallion, but that's all confined to Path of the Radiance and he's long dead by the time Micaiah takes her stage. Finally, Micaiah's strategies largely don't intersect with the Black Knight/Zelgius, Sephiran/Lehran, or Naesala, so none of them cannibalize each other and are allowed to stand on their own. The Black Knight does ensure Micaiah stays alive so Sephiran can have the goddess awaken, but depending on the game, Micaiah can help Sephiran see the error of his ways.
Conclusion?
What do you guys think?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I hate spoilers
The Avatar sandbox has a description that labels the titular character as "it". That seems kind of messed up for a Messianic Archetype.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh hey, it's this. I was wondering when this would come up, but I didn't want to rush any products.
Couldn't you just use "they"? That's also Gender Neutral Writing.
Edited by 227someguy on Apr 8th 2021 at 1:31:10 PM
Everyone look at my sandbox
Professor Gigachad
The Avatar can reincarnate as both Male and Female so that does kind of make sense.
I... uhh... don't think Micaiah is enough of a bastard being perfectly honest having played the game. Sure, she uses dirty tactics at times, but it's all from being ordered by Pelleus and thus the Begnion Senate. Happy birthday though, man.
I'd say the difference between her and Edelgard is that Edelgard is more morally grey, while Micaiah is more a pure hero forced to do awful things.
Edit: I forgot she endangered Sanaki, count me as a . Though Sanaki does come out of it unharmed, so honestly I'm leaning yes, but my doubt is reasonable. She's definitely morally grey enough, but most of her cruelty from being ordered to do things. So abstain for now.
I'm curious, despite the fact he dies on most non Blue Lions routes (ironically just like Edelgard) could Dimitri theoretically count? He's certainly enough of a bastard, but I think he might be too insane, thinking back. Then again, we've had insane keepers in the past. Honestly, I know Rhea is probably too evil, but Dimitri is kind of a mixed bag from what I remember. I think the problem with him is he doesn't have Edelgard's adaptability.
If you'd like to do Dimitri, erazor, you'd be more than welcome to.
Edited by Klavice on Apr 8th 2021 at 11:36:47 AM
Goku Black
Grimm (hey I love that film) and Pickering.
Grimm
Hello, I'm back after a very long time. There was simply one Magnificent Bastard that has recently cropped up that I could not resist EPing. I have waited for the 2 week spoiler policy to pass before discussion of this character.
Today's candidate is Abra Kadabra from The Flash. I haven't had much luck with Arrowverse candidates in the past, but I think this one will change that.
Who is Abra Kadabra and what has he done?
Abra Kadabra (real name revealed to be Philippe) is a time travelling criminal who hails from the 64th century. He uses advanced nanite technology that can be passed off as magic. At some point he got stuck in the past with no way of returning home. So he travels the multiverse looking for parts to make a working timeship, during which he has a run-in with Gypsy of Earth-19 and kills her partner. Gypsy swears vengeance and pursues Abra throughout the multiverse.
Season 3:
Eventually Abra Kadabra arrives on Earth-1 where he continues his thefts while also killing those who get in his way. Eventually he is confronted by the Flash, only for Abra to reveal he knows he is Barry Allen as he is the Flash's longtime enemy from the future. Abra also reveals he has knowledge about the Flash's enemies, including current Big Bad Savitar. Desperate to defeat Savitar, Barry wants to get information out of Abra more than anything else. However, they get interrupted by Gypsy's arrival who attacks Abra, to which Abra teleports away in the confusion.
Abra arrives at STAR Labs and incapacitates several Team Flash members, but this time Barry succeeds in capturing him and locking him in a cell. Abra then tries to bargain for his freedom by revealing Savitar's real identity, knowing that Gypsy will execute him. However after Gypsy reveals Abra killed her partner, Barry is torn on what to do. Joe makes the decision for him, agreeing to release Abra in exchange for the information, but just as Abra is about to say Savitar's name, Gypsy shows up and he uses the chance to escape. When Joe reconfronts Abra over not going through with the deal, Abra muses they both changed the terms of their agreement. Abra acquires the last part he needs for the time ship, but gets surrounded by Team Flash and Gypsy, so he detonates a bomb as a diversion and escapes.
Finishing his timeship, Abra is about to return to the future, only for Barry to interfere and pull him out of the ship so it departs without him. Now in Gypsy's custody, Barry pleads to any honor that Abra has to help him defeat Savitar. Abra looks amused and tells him he was always jealous of Savitar being able to break Barry like no one else, but by withholding information from him it was like he got the chance to kill Iris too.
Season 7:
Following the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Abra is also restored on the post-Crisis Earth-Prime, having managed to escape Gypsy's custody. However he begins experiencing memories of a life he never knew, which he deduced were in-line with the effects of a speedster messing with the timeline. This leads him to the Flash Museum where he acquires a device Cisco made that restores pre-Crisis memories, and remembers he had a son and wife in the previous reality who no longer exist due to Crisis. Abra is convinced that it was the Flash who changed history by not vanishing during Crisis. Abra returns to the present intending to either destroy Central City along with the Flash to correct history, or if that doesn't work then to make Barry suffer just as he is.
Abra begins using his powers to turn structures around Central City into obelisks, as well as killing any witnesses. Team Flash figure out Abra is back and manage to apprehend him, but Abra escapes shortly after and continues making obelisks. When confronted by Barry, Abra materializes a harness around the Flash. He references their last encounter where Barry has asked him to find hope, only for Barry to steal it, so now Abra would do the same to him to Central City. It's revealed Abra has used the obelisks to create an antimatter bomb, with just enough power to wipe out Central City. Team Flash wonders if they can disarm the bomb by having Barry phase through, only to discover that Abra has made the bomb out of indestructium that cannot be penetrated by anything but antimatter.
Barry instead tries to reason with Abra, having found out the true motive behind his actions being his family got erased from existence, as well as revealing he lost someone close during Crisis too. Abra comes very close to charging up the bomb just seconds from 100% but finally is persuaded by Barry's kindness, realizing that destroying Central City won't bring his family back and that they would not appreciate him destroying a city in their name. The two former enemies reconcile, with Abra revealing his real name is Philippe while Barry reveals he lost Oliver Queen during Crisis. However their moment gets interrupted when they are attacked by a strange hulking enemy. Abra attempts to use the anti-matter bomb on this new enemy, only for it to have no effect, and Abra is killed by said monster. Team Flash later honor Abra Kadabra's passing and agree he died a hero.
Charming? Charismatic? Magnificent?
Abra Kadbra is one of the most cunning of The Flash's enemies on the entire show. During his two-episode tenure, he has managed to outsmart Barry and Team Flash on multiple occasions. He has a knack for slipping away with a quick diversion, or enticing Team Flash members to get what he wants. Even when he does get taken by surprise, he is able to quickly come up with a counter. Both times he has a Near-Villain Victory with the first time, he had completed his timeship and only got thwarted by Barry at the last second, while the second time I'd say technically he won he just instead voluntarily chose to pick a different form of victory that didn't involve blowing up the city.
Abra is incredibly polite and charming, being firmly Affably Evil. Being a master of the theatrics, this also extends to his persona. He always greets his foes with the utmost respect. During the scene with Joe, Abra was about to keep his end of the bargain had he not been interrupted by Gypsy.
Magnificence Competition?
While there are quite a few Chessmasters in The Flash, like Eobard Thawne, Captain Cold, Grodd, Devoe. Abra does not ever match wits with them directly and only ever goes up against Team Flash and Gypsy, where he's virtually always several steps ahead and leading them upon a merry dance.
Too much of a bastard?
In his first appearance he just mostly steals stuff and occasionally killing the odd person he comes across. His second appearance while his actions of blowing up Central City are a little more heinous, are nonetheless very sympathetic and not sadistic. But most importantly of all, Abra reveals himself to be a Noble Demon who undergoes a Heel–Face Turn at the end. So no problem with him on this front.
Final verdict?
Probably the most magnificent villain since Captain Cold. Easy
Edited by Snowy66 on Apr 9th 2021 at 3:50:37 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure thing. Will Picks and Micaiah
Dan Brown's third MB?
Edited by Snowy66 on Apr 9th 2021 at 3:48:02 AM
Gotta love Jaws!
to Pickering, Micaiah and Abra.
to Grrimm, William Pickering, Micaiah and Abra Kadabra.
Goku Black
Sure. Kadabra.
Woagh
Here's King K. Rool, our favorite Big Green Tool:
- Donkey Kong: Jungle Climber: In this game, King K. Rool aims to steal the Crystal Bananas to take over the universe. To this end, he and his men steal them from benevolent alien Xananab and flee before the Kongs arrived to investigate, leaving both parties to mistake each other as enemies and wreck the ship. Throughout the game, he stays one step ahead of the Kongs, using the Bananas to power up his minions to distract the Kongs, at one point luring them into a trap and leaving in his space ship before they got out. Eventually being cornered, he tricks the Kongs into preparing to fight him and escapes to Xananab's home world, fighting the Kongs when they follow and find him, first by replicating DK's moves, and then by using the Banana to grow big and try to crush the Kongs.
Anyways, i was gonna save this as a suprise, but this is a candidate that i'm pretty sure warrents a genuine discussion:
So that "mystery Marvel show" was The Super Hero Squad Show, and the candidate was actually Nick Fury, who disguised himself as his brother Scorpio to infiltrate his plan to suck Super Hero City into a black hole. Now, he has the competence and charm down, being a snarky, quick witted superspy who's responsible for Doom's plan failing. Its the Bastard part that i wanna discuss.
Y'see, it's obvious that he wants to prevent people getting killed, but in the process, he also causes property damage via stealing from Stark industries and destroying a good few security bots and beating the crap outta the Squaddies. He also ops to only foil the scheme at the last second, when Doom is about to activate the hole. Also, i should probably mention that the morality in this show really isn't complicated, with most heroes as Nice Guys and the Villains as Card Carrying Villains. So i suppose that a plot like this would be morraly ambiguous enough to count. Any thoughts?
BTW, i'm also looking to research Magneto from this show, who's also a Card-Carrying Villain, albeit an affable one.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The Draftsman of Doom
- Deception Point: Director William Pickering, National Reconnaisance Office Agent Rachel Sexton's seemingly unimposing employer, seeks to prevent the privatization of space travel for the sake of national security. Having sent evidence of a Senator's misconduct to a White House staffer, Pickering had commissioned a forged meteor made from deep sea fossil which was warped using hydrogen fuel. Subsequently placing the forged meteor near Ellesmere Island, Pickering forcibly has a Canadian geologist report falsified information for an unknowing NASA to find before having the geologist thrown to his death. When the forgery is discovered by Rachel, oceanographer Michael Tolland and astrophysicist Dr. Corky Marlinson, among others, Pickering attempts to have the team hunted down to preserve the ruse. During the final confrontation with the trio, Pickering intercepts an SOS from Rachel, telling her Senator father not to release the information about the forgery if he wants to ensure Rachel's survival.
Seems like a classic thief to add!