Expy Cleanup Thread

@BrashBuster re:Rosenkreuzstilette

While she doesn't really resemble Vile in terms of personality, I do feel like she was meant to fill the same role in the story as him and Magma Dragoon, the latter moreso since he's also another turncoat met in the prologue level that defected simply due to their love of fighting. I do concede that it runs into the "multiple character" issue that would disqualify adding it anyway, but at the time I thought it was noteworthy enough to point out.

The only things I can say about the others are that Count Zeppelin and Raimund should be kept as clear cut expies of Dracula and Death, since those two are very much meant to evoke those specific Castlevania characters, fulfill the same role in both gameplay and story. There are differences you already mentioned in your case, but I don't believe they're enough to really disqualify them.

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter

On Characters.Fate Type Redline:

This is sort of odd as narrative-wise, Kanata and Tsukumo fit the roles of Kohaku and Akiha from Fate/koha-ace where Tsukumo/Akiha are the ones who actually tried to enter Holy Grail War, but their summoning were hijacked by Kanata/Kohaku. But the dynamic they have are more similar to Shirou and Rin, though this might be Type-Moon fans trying to compare new characters with old ones. Kiritsugu part is bit eh since the same thing happened in Fate/koha-ace, so it is a reference to a reference.

Edited by TPPR10 on Apr 28th 2022 at 11:11:17 AM

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

Over on Characters.Amphibia Main Characters, this entry was added for the Calamity Box:

• Expy: Of the Chaos Emeralds. While there are three gems instead of seven, they still have similar properties: They are capable of inter dimensional travel, can empower people with forms that cause hair to change color and stand upright, be used to power machines, their power can be depleted, but can be restored at temples, are sought out by the heroes and villains, and were abused by an ancient civilization.

It was deleted by myself as a misuse, but then redded with the claim that because the creator was a fan of Sonic (I don't know if this is true or not) that it was possible that the jewels of the Calamity Box were an expy of the Chaos Emeralds.

Edited by LadyErinNY on May 3rd 2022 at 9:38:34 AM

Pretty much all of those traits are very standard Mineral MacGuffin traits, and things that really make the Chaos Emeralds stand out to me (like there being 7 of them) are lacking

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

Yeah, just seem like standard power jewel things.

Sometime ago, someone deleted an Expy entry I once wrote on Flare's section on Redo of Healer because they thought the similarities were "superficial". However, I want like to add it back because I honestly think the similarities clearly aren't "superficial". Here is my new version, though it has more similarities that I didn't mention in the previous version:

• Expy: She's one to Malty. Like her, Flare is a Dirty Coward, the unloving older sister to another important female character, and a busty Ms. Fanservice with a knack for Stupid Evil moments. The two additionally manipulate others into thinking they're Nice Girls. They're actually cruel, arrogant, selfish, and evil princesses who tormented the protagonist of their respective works which caused him to become resentful and vindictive towards her. They also both display symptoms of anti-social personality disorder.

EDIT: Expanded on this slightly.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Aug 26th 2022 at 6:06:19 AM

Thing is, sharing a lot of traits isn't what Expy is about. It has to be an unambiguous copy, and I'm not feeling that from your example.

TRS Wick Cleaning

Why are you "not feeling it"?

For starters, and speaking for myself, do we know for certain the similarities are intentional and not coincidence?

As-written, there are multiple similarities, but nothing confirming that they are based on Malty as opposed to just being a similar type of character that just happens to resemble Malty.

Given how revenge stories like Redo of Healer contractually oblige any enemy of the main character to be a monster in order to justify the revenge, we need more than "they're both monsters"

Edited by sgamer82 on May 25th 2022 at 11:23:19 AM

Please see Tropes Are Flexible.

One or two could be coincidental (i.e. being an important female character's unloving older sister), however, that's only if you ignore that there are many other similarities. While I know a couple of similarities can be coincidences, multiple clearly make it unlikely (I'm talking about in general when it comes to Expy examples, not this one in particular).

EDIT: That example I listed also covers traits that don't have to apply to "monsters".

SECOND EDIT: Improved this.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Aug 4th 2022 at 7:34:01 AM

"Could be" intentional, and "clearly make it unlikely" makes this seem speculative. Intent is crucial to an expy, so unless we know, without question, that Flare is based on Malty she's not an expy.

Edited by sgamer82 on May 25th 2022 at 11:49:05 AM

That was just a mistake with the wording on my end. EDIT: Also, I improved it now.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on May 25th 2022 at 11:42:48 AM

The changed wording doesn't really affect my point.

Is there anything on the record from the author that Malty was the inspiration for Flare? Some direct reference to Malty in Redo (ex: a series I know calls its Superman Substitute "an ubermensch that draws power from the sun" to make the reference unmistakable).

If Flare is an expy of Malty, could her sister be an expy of Melty?

Yes it does; you said it made it appear "speculative", which you were using against this as a key part of Expy is that's done intentionally. Additionally, Word of God isn't required and this series doesn't have any examples of Word of God. The comparisons between the two franchises are also noteworthy.

EDIT: and Honestly, you're being too strict imo.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Aug 26th 2022 at 6:05:32 AM

I said it appears speculative because it appears speculative. Nothing said so far changes this.

Word of God isn't required, but being able to cite it would remove the doubt.

From Expy, emphasis mine

Edited by sgamer82 on May 25th 2022 at 12:05:13 PM

To add to , I want to once again bring up Ivankov from One Piece as a clear example of a character who seems like an obvious expy, but isn't.

For those unaware, Ivankov is a character that bears a very striking resemblance to Tim Curry's Dr. Frank-N-Furter character in The Rocky Horror Picture Show. A lot of people assumed the creator even based the character off of Frank-N-Furter.

But then, it turned out that the creator actually based the character on a completely different individual (who, funny enough, would end up being Ivankov's first voice actor). The resemblance to Frank-N-Furter turned out to be a coincidence.

In short, it isn't enough for a bunch of similarities to be present to call a character an expy of another. There needs to be evidence that the similarities are a deliberate thing on the part of the creator.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on May 25th 2022 at 1:12:33 AM

Over on the Characters.The Bad Guys Movie, an expy example was added for Ms. Tarantula.

• Expy: A talkative, brightly colored self-taught hacker who trades barbs with her male cohorts while assisting them through Mission Control? When did Penelope Garcia become a tarantula? Bonus points for Webs being a Mexican spider and Garcia's adoptive parents being Mexican.

While I know that this is a misuse, there is another example, I am not sure about. Over on the sheet for Diana Foxtinton, that I am not sure about as there is no confirmation about this.

• Expy: She's this to her book counterpart, Agent Fox, rather than being a straight adaption like the rest of the cast. Both of them are the love interest of Mr. Wolf and provide him with a good, level-headed person to communicate with as he reforms. While Agent Fox is a former thug that became good and founded a top-secret hero organization, Diane is a former thief who became disgusted with her lifestyle and became governor to make up for her crimes.

Edited by LadyErinNY on Jun 7th 2022 at 4:20:54 AM

Hello! I was wondering if it would be alright if I discussed an Expy example for Pop Windibank from The Great Ace Attorney: Minor Characters which was removed recently along with a lot of misused examples. These are the reasons in favor:

• Pop Windibank, a pawn shop owner, physically looks almost identical to Jabez Wilson from the Granada adaptation of Sherlock Holmes, from his build to his facial hair and spectacles. This was done deliberately, as the original concept art notes on the character state he was designed after a Sherlock Holmes character and that anyone could guess which one just by looking at him.
• Jabez Wilson, in the story, is also a pawn shop owner. He is essentially tricked by a criminal who poses as his new assistant in order to tunnel under his shop to steal funds being stored by a bank nearby. While Windibank has a different role in the game, this whole plot is referenced by Sholmes during a deduction sequence, as he suggests (erroneously) that this is a criminal character's plan in visiting the shop.

Reasons against:

• Pop's last name, Windibank, is taken from another Sherlock Holmes character
• Pop ultimately has a different fate from Jabez.

Is that enough to disqualify? And if so, would it be acceptable to add different trope for this instead? Like Composite Character (Granada ver. Jabez Wilson with James Windibank) or Shout-Out (the game being a Holmes adaptation referencing another Holmes adaptation.) Sorry if this is a dumb question,

Edited by Octoya on Jun 13th 2022 at 8:46:26 AM

Deleted multiple Expy examples from Characters.Valorant, of the two examples that weren't ZCE or Speculative, only one seemed to be detailed enough to make me think it could be valid, but all it does is list similarities.

The potentially valid example, under Omen:

• Expy: Of Reaper. Both are living ghosts who can teleport, turn into smoke, wear creepy masks, have growly voices, and prey on their enemies' fear.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 20th 2022 at 9:38:37 AM

So I'm looking at Characters.Odd Squad and I'm wondering if this trope should stay here or if this should be replaced with Expy or another trope.

• Contrasting Sequel Main Character: While only a new cast for a new season, this still applies as Otis and Olympia have the exact opposite dynamic as Olive and Otto, save for Olympia being the one who's the protocol fiend and the chipper bouncy one while the more reserved Otis is frequently sighing in irritation at her antics.

Is the second season of a show considered a "sequel"? And I wouldn't say they have a different dynamic...they're explicitly stated in-universe to be replacements of Olive and Otto, Olympia being referred to as "the new Otto" specifically, but reading the initial post in this thread, the only thing she has in common with Otto is that he's a Keet while she is the trope's Distaff Counterpart, a Genki Girl. Otis has more in common with Olive, being serious and stern.

Also, characters can't be expies of numerous characters, but what happens if Word of God states otherwise? Does Word of God trump the rules of the trope or is it the other way around?

Omar is listed as being an expy of both Olympia (being The Pollyanna) and Otto (being a bit of a ditz at times and being a Big Eater) in the pitch bible for Season 3, which was written by both creators. I'd argue he fits more as an expy of Olympia than Otto, since the only trait he shares with Otto according to the pitch bible is that he's gullible, which...neither character is. They're both stupid at times but I'd hardly call them gullible. On the flip side of the coin, he's listed as being "enthusiastic and optimistic" like Olympia, and it definitely shows in-universe, hence why I want to keep Olympia as the sole example.

This entry for Opal was also cut for not being deliberate and because sharing a single personality trait doesn't qualify enough for the trope. It's deliberate — it was mentioned in both the pitch bible and the casting call form for Opal's actress — but I'm willing to cut it anyway because I don't know Peter Quill as a character well enough to make a solid judgement and because sharing a single personality trait, indeed, does not qualify enough for the trope.

• On a much lesser scale, she is one to Peter Quill from Guardians of the Galaxy, although only in the sense that she wants the Mobile Unit to be seen as an elite team the way Peter wanted others to call him "Star Lord".

Kaito is an alien and he is kinda spacey, coming from the universe to party and go crazy!

The Peter Quill connection noted is extremely weak.

That seems like a bunch of shallow similarities. I don't play Valorant though, so I couldn't tell you if the similarities go deeper.

So, bullet list for readability

• No, that's a very weak connection and the two characters have major differences, so Olympia is not an expy of Otto.
• WOG does not trump it, the character is simply not an expy, just inspired by/based on multiple characters.
• Again, shallow connection. Unless there's more similarities between them other than "enthusiastic and optimistic", likely not an example.
• It may fit deliberate, but even so, if it doesn't check all the boxes, not an expy.

---

General question for potholes since I want to clean up some of this mess. What should be done for examples that essentially boil down to:

• The Alice expy punches David in the face with her metal arm.

or

• Claire, an Alice expy, punches David in the face with her metal arm.

The former doesn't even name the actual character that the example is about. The latter just adds it on as an unnecessary qualifier. Ignoring the context issues in my hypotheticals, what should be done with these types?

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors

Just cut it as word cruft I guess, it's irrelevant to the example.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Using other, usually unrelated, works in place of description is not good.

Is it essential for the entries to mention specifically that the action doer is an expy? Looks like no.

For the first: I'd be inclined to cut the expy part, since it is not essential for the entry, and, if the grammar doesn't make sense, comment it with a note saying the entry needs to be reworded.

For the second: easy removal of "an alice expy".

That's what I thought. I'll go ahead and remove that then.

All righty. In the case of Olympia and Otto, I'll remove the trope.

Is there such a trope for characters inspired by other characters that isn't Expy, by chance? I don't think "played with" can be applied to that trope.

AFAIK there aren't any other similarities between Omar and Olympia. Being enthusiastic is as far as it goes, so I'll remove the example and other examples on the page based on criteria.

EDIT: Just noticed there's another example on the same page, of the Puppy Master being an expy of Cruella de Vil, which is...no. They're vastly different characters. Cutting it.

Edited by ilovewildkratts1 on Jun 21st 2022 at 8:40:36 AM

Kaito is an alien and he is kinda spacey, coming from the universe to party and go crazy!