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Mar 16th 2019 at 11:06:46 AM

If we rule that Our Titans Are Different is a Sub-Trope of Our Gods Are Different, then all titans would need to be gods. Several examples of Our Titans Are Different (such as Attack on Titan and Dungeons & Dragons) would need to be deleted.

I think defining Our Titans Are Different such that all titans need to be gods would be overly restrictive. Therefore I would argue that OTAD is not a Sub-Trope of OGAD.

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 16th 2019 at 1:31:36 PM

[up] I'm inclined to agree with that.


[up][up] Sorry; I don't usually use text colours and I've been busy with other projects. Text in    Evil    is deleted, text in Pink is added.

  •    The individuals should be of approximately the same lifespan. Otherwise, it's a Mayfly–December Romance.   
  • Presuming normal human lifespans, the partners must be at least 30 years apart in age and at different stages of life. Presuming normal human lifespans, the older needs to be at least 50 and of a senior citizen age. Similarly, the younger can be no more than 35, because the younger one is in the spring of their life.
  • The ages are from when the relationship started. If a 50-year-old and an 85-year-old are a couple, this trope would qualify if they've been together for 30 years, but not if they started dating last week.
  • Age is based on time actually living. Time spent frozen or otherwise in a suspended state is irrelevant. If a character goes into suspension at age 30, and comes out 100 years later,    he's    they're 30, not 130, for the purposes of this trope.
  •    For creatures with extended (or very brief) lifespans, apply the above rules generally. The older should be vastly more experienced than the younger in practically all ways. For example, a 1000-year-old vampire dating one still within a human lifespan would apply as this trope, but not if dating a 500 year old one.   
  • The difference has to be noted In-Universe as an unusually large age gap. The ages of the actors   /actresses    are immaterial.    Many a movie involves a male character of older appearance with deliberately vague age being interested in a girl whose actress is young enough to be the actor's daughter, but the gap is never brought up. This has a lot more to do with double standards against older actresses than overcoming age hurdles in a relationship. Voice actors in animated works definitely do not count.    Many movies use older male actors whose character's age is deliberately vague being interested in a girl played by a female actor who is young enough to be their daughter, but the gap is never brought up. This applies for live-action and voice acting.
  • This is a Romance trope. There has to be an actual romantic relationship of at least a modest length to qualify; brief flings or one-off encounters don't qualify.
  • For creatures with lifespans different from the human normal (extended or ephemeral), apply the above rules generally. If a 1,000 year-old ageless vampire is dating a 100 year-old vampire, this trope could apply, but not if they are dating a 500 year-old vampire. You might consider Mayfly–December Romance instead, where one creature has a (much) longer life expectancy than the other (but isn't always in different stages of life).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Mar 17th 2019 at 3:11:20 PM

So... Til Murder Do Us Part, and Domestic Abuse don't wick to each other, except for the former having this example:

Should they crosswick? Would Til Murder Do Us Part be when Domestic Abuse leads to a death? Or does it have to be premeditated murder instead of just accidental?

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crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 17th 2019 at 4:47:15 PM

To answer your last question, no. However, I'm not sure they need to Cross Wick. I'm also uncertain why The Bluebeard and Black Widow are mentioned on Domestic Abuse.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 23rd 2019 at 5:23:42 AM

Living a Double Life, and I'll rely on You've Got Mail for the argument; Meg Ryan falls in love with the penpal who also the guy she hates for pressuring her out of business.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Mar 23rd 2019 at 2:56:26 PM

Faux Death is the magic version of Human Popsicle? Or any kind of stasis, but not cryogenically?

I'm de-wicking Suspended Animation, and I'm not sure, plus I might've put some things in the wrong trope...

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crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:02:20 PM

I'm inclined to think of Faux Death as a very broad Super-Trope, and Human Popsicle as the sci-fi subtrope involving cryogenics.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:11:31 PM

[up] - Instituting that world take a TRS though, wouldn't it?

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Mar 24th 2019 at 12:38:18 PM

New thing, since Kill Tally has been launched.

Is Kill Tally a Super-Trope of Body-Count Competition, or not?

I'm not sure, since you don't need a physical tally, if you just count in your head...

Kill Tally says:

If you have two or more people doing this to compete at who's the best at taking down enemies, that's Body-Count Competition, which may or may not come with a physical kill tally. If the medium itself is keeping track of dead bodies rather than the characters themselves, that's separate from this trope.

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MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Apr 10th 2019 at 1:36:40 PM

Man, I need to avoid forgetting about this thread.

[up] Yeah, I think Kill Tally and Body-Count Competition are just sister tropes that revolve around the same concept but tackle different aspects of it. Not sure if there's a missing supertrope, though.

~High Crate ([1]: Yeah, well, that's the problem when the word "titan" is often used as a fancy alternative for "giant". The Titans of Attack on Titan and Dungeons & Dragons are just examples of Our Giants Are Bigger that happen to be "titans" In Name Only; the former especially lack much of the traits that are explained in the description, while the latter — at least in 5th edition, apparently — are explicitly said to be favored by the giants' gods. So I say that these examples belong in Our Giants Are Bigger, if they're not already there. Perhaps we should even make a trope about the conflation of actual titans with giants, a la Dinosaurs Are Dragons, and keep Our Titans Are Different strictly about true Titans/Primordials.

Just to add to the fun, in Norse Mythology the terms "Titans" and "Giants" designate the same group.

~crazysamaritan: I like this. The first deletion confused the hell out of me, but that was answered by the final added line.


I'm de-wicking Suspended Animation
... How the hell is that not the trope name, rather than Human Popsicle? I really hate the favoring of wittiness over accuracy and/or clarity in older trope names, and the insistence on Grandfather Clause-ing them barring admin fiat.


Reading Superior Successor, it claims the following to be subtropes. All of them I find to be dubious. In fact, Surpassed the Teacher is the only trope listed on the article that I indeed agree to be a subtrope.

  • Asskicking Equals Authority
  • Born Winner: You can be a Born Winner who's also the child of Born Winners, maybe even from an entire family of nothing but Born Winners.
  • Enfant Terrible: What exactly is innately "superior" about them? They could simply be a child who also happens to be a psychopath, with no improved abilities/skills over their peers whatsoever.
  • Fetus Terrible: Again, nothing innate about the trope that implies "superiority" to the predecessor.
  • Flawed Prototype: This is one possible counterpart to this trope, not a subtrope thereof.
  • Goo Goo Godlike: See Born Winner.
  • Klingon Promotion: It's about being promoted as a direct consequence of you arranging for your predecessor's death, whether directly or indirectly. It doesn't mean that you're actually superior to them; in fact, you could be no better or even worse.
  • Lamarck Was Right: This just involves the passing on of acquired traits to your descendants. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll be better than you.
  • Obsolete Mentor: Just because this trope is a natural consequence of Superior Successor doesn't mean it's a subtrope.

What are your thoughts?

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 12th 2019 at 10:57:28 AM

Mostly responding to [up], but I've got one new question which I'll include at the end of this post.


I think Kill Tally and Body-Count Competition are just sister tropes that revolve around the same concept but tackle different aspects of it. Not sure if there's a missing supertrope, though.
If I had seen the trope in TLP, I would've encouraged Kill Tally to be Tally Marks, making a physical record of events, be it days in prison, sexual encounters, or confirmed kills.
Perhaps we should even make a trope about the conflation of actual titans with giants, a la Dinosaurs Are Dragons, and keep Our Titans Are Different strictly about true Titans/Primordials.
Because of that conflagration, until we make such a trope, I think Our Titans Are Different overlaps with both the gods and giants.
I really hate the favoring of wittiness over accuracy and/or clarity in older trope names, and the insistence on Grandfather Clause-ing them barring admin fiat.
If you can demonstrate evidence, like the past twenty times people added an example, it was to the Suspended Animation wick instead of the Human Popsicle wick, that can also be used to bring about a rename.
Reading Superior Successor, it claims the following to be subtropes. All of them I find to be dubious. In fact, Surpassed the Teacher
I'm a little muzzy from being sick for a few days, so I'm going to support wiping that entire list from the page, but I'm open to hearing arguments afterwards that one or more of the ones other than Surpassed the Teacher also count.
My question; does Trilogy count as an example/Sub-Trope for Multi-Volume Work? Is there something I'm missing where Trilogy Creep disqualifies it from being a Multi-Volume Work?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Apr 24th 2019 at 3:47:08 PM

So, Title by Number is just "Title has a number in it", right?

So, Numbered Sequels, is a subtrope?


Is Episode 0: The Beginning a subtrope of Numbered Sequels as it says it is?

Edited by Malady on Apr 24th 2019 at 3:49:19 AM

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crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 24th 2019 at 4:16:43 PM

Yeah, I'd be okay with Title by Number being a rather general "Title has a number in it" trope, so long as we're turning it into an index for the subtropes. That would make Episode 0: The Beginning, Numbered Sequels, and Running Time in the Title subtropes.

Yes, I think Episode 0: The Beginning should be a subtrope of Numbered Sequels, as a Prequel numbered 0.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Apr 24th 2019 at 4:58:12 PM

Do you think we should take changes to the Description Improvement Thread? I'm fine with changing it from what we've got here, if you're okay with it.


So, if we describe Episode 0: The Beginning as a Numbered Sequels subtrope, then this would be wrong, because it's not a number indicating a prequel, a.k.a a separate work, so much as it's numbering a year?

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crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 24th 2019 at 5:37:37 PM

I figure wait a bit to see if anyone else has comments, but otherwise yes.


The "Year 0" question is interesting, I tried to do a bit of analyzing, and you're right that it's just a Sequel, not a prequel. It might still fit your Year Of Title TLP, though.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Apr 25th 2019 at 9:02:42 AM

If I had seen the trope in TLP, I would've encouraged Kill Tally to be Tally Marks, making a physical record of events, be it days in prison, sexual encounters, or confirmed kills.
We could still unlaunch it for that very purpose, since it's a very recently made trope.

If you can demonstrate evidence, like the past twenty times people added an example, it was to the Suspended Animation wick instead of the Human Popsicle wick, that can also be used to bring about a rename.
... How the hell would I be able to prove something like that? Besides, a much stronger argument would be that nowhere else besides this site uses the term "human popsicle" the way it does; elsewhere, it seems to simply mean "human who has been entirely frozen up; being for cryogenic purposes or even the continuation of the human's life not required". If anything, I'd be unsurprised if I find out that the majority of Human Popsicle's thousands of inbounds are from people looking for that general concept and not expecting the suspended animation kind.

My question; does Trilogy count as an example/Sub-Trope for Multi Volume Work? Is there something I'm missing where Trilogy Creep disqualifies it from being a Multi Volume Work?
I don't see any reason why Trilogy or even Trilogy Creep don't count as subtropes of Multi-Volume Work, especially considering the last paragraph of the definition.

Other times, the works are meant to be individual stories that stand on their own. This can be the intention of the author from the start. Other times, such as with an unexpected Cash Cow Franchise, one book that was meant to be self contained becomes outrageously popular, prompting sequels.


I'm of the mind that several of Mixed Ancestry's listed subtropes should be axed for not requiring mixed ancestry.

Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 25th 2019 at 8:21:03 PM

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 25th 2019 at 12:45:42 PM

We could still unlaunch [Kill Tally] for that very purpose
I'd be more comfortable if it was discussed/decided in TLP Crash Rescue. I don't think this project should be sending tropes back to TLP for any reason.
... How the hell would I be able to prove something like that?
Days/weeks of work, comparing timestamps. Or even active monitoring to catch when new wicks are added. I did mention I was sick wen I wrote that post, right? We used to be able to find where people were coming from, and showing multiple articles that use the term Suspended Animation while linking to our page on Human Popsicle might be considered strong evidence in favour of a rename as well.

An article about Literally Shattered Lives that accidentally links to Human Popsicle would be great evidence in favour of renaming.


Mixed Ancestry: I think most of these belong more to the See Also section. I think we should list Super-Trope (Liminal Being), then subtropes, then "The following tropes have frequent overlap with Mixed Ancestry:" for the rest, including Child of Two Worlds, Extra Parent Conception, Lineage Comes from the Father, Semi-Divine, and Nephilim.

I'm pretty sure Ambiguously Brown is impossible to do with Mixed Ancestry, since knowledge of the ancestry is supposed to explain the skin colour. Not 100% certain, though. It's recently come up elsewhere on the wiki.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Apr 27th 2019 at 6:20:51 PM

What, if any relation, between Characterization Tags and Content Warnings?

A tag can also be a content warning, if it's Dark! or Angsty! or someother things that some readers might not want?

I thought I saw some fanfics that tag their content, not just their characters, but that's few and far between?

"Anime Addventure" did it.

Would Content Warnings be just a site-wide trope, or would it apply to fics as well, since the author would be the one tagging their stories like in Fimfiction.Net has Dark, Gore, Sex, etc, tags?


"Dark" would count as a vague Content Warning, right? Like in Dungeon Keeper Ami?

Edited by Malady on Apr 27th 2019 at 6:22:07 AM

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naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Apr 27th 2019 at 7:40:29 PM

[up]I think you're confused about what Characterization Tags are. Sounds like you're thinking of the long list of tags at the beginning of an Archive Of Our Own fanfic, where there's definitely overlap, as those tags are used as Content Warnings.

But actually, Characterization Tags is a shorthand notation to convey an Alternate Character Interpretation for a specific character. I.e. Fem!Bob or Rational!Alice or Angry!Gay!Charlie. I have a hard time seeing how these could be used as Content Warnings, unless you did something like Suicidal!Bob or Transphobic!Alice, which is not common usage.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Apr 27th 2019 at 8:04:06 PM

^ - Fanfic Header is a redirect to Characterization Tags...

But I think you might be right.

However, "Dark!Harry", would that be an implied Content Warning that the fic is gonna be dark, 'cause a character is?

Edited by Malady on Apr 27th 2019 at 8:04:40 AM

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 27th 2019 at 9:32:48 PM

I wouldn't make that assumption, but I don't know if other people would. There's "dark and broody" and "thinks/does murder". I can see either getting Dark!Harry tags. A Harry that emotionally invests in the fact that his parents were part of a wonderful world, that they would've been the ones to teach him about magic and quidditch and diagon alley... Except for one fateful Halloween night... That would be a Dark!Harry, but probably not Dark warning. Again, I don't know if other people would assume that character tags would be content warnings.

Yes, Fanfic Headers is a broader concept than Character Tags.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Apr 28th 2019 at 3:57:30 AM

Let's solve Fanfic Header first, because it's easier.

Do we have a better trope to point it to, and/or if we're disambig-ing, where should it go?


Do we have a general thread for splitting off redirects into their own separate tropes?

Like Tritagonist pointing to Deuteragonist? Since they're different terms and mean different things?

Edited by Malady on Apr 28th 2019 at 5:43:44 AM

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 28th 2019 at 7:00:06 AM

Do we have a general thread for splitting off redirects into their own separate tropes?

I'm not aware of any. I think it's just taken to TLP.

Like Tritagonist pointing to Deuteragonist? Since they're different terms and mean different things?

Those two are similar enough to be the same page.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Apr 28th 2019 at 7:54:29 AM

[up] - Ok. No change to Tritagonist.


Speak in Unison is indexed in Mind Manipulation, and Paranormal Tropes...

Since not all examples are going to fit under those indexes, should I remove it from them?


Also, does Finish Dialogue in Unison seem specifically different enough from Speak in Unison, to get its own trope?

Edited by Malady on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:57:01 AM

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