NaNo 4328 / 50,000
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I'm inclined to agree with that.
Sorry; I don't usually use text colours and I've been busy with other projects. Text in Evil is deleted, text in Pink is added.
- The individuals should be of approximately the same lifespan. Otherwise, it's a Mayfly–December Romance.
- Presuming normal human lifespans, the partners must be at least 30 years apart in age and at different stages of life. Presuming normal human lifespans, the older needs to be at least 50 and of a senior citizen age. Similarly, the younger can be no more than 35, because the younger one is in the spring of their life.
- The ages are from when the relationship started. If a 50-year-old and an 85-year-old are a couple, this trope would qualify if they've been together for 30 years, but not if they started dating last week.
- Age is based on time actually living. Time spent frozen or otherwise in a suspended state is irrelevant. If a character goes into suspension at age 30, and comes out 100 years later, he's they're 30, not 130, for the purposes of this trope.
- For creatures with extended (or very brief) lifespans, apply the above rules generally. The older should be vastly more experienced than the younger in practically all ways. For example, a 1000-year-old vampire dating one still within a human lifespan would apply as this trope, but not if dating a 500 year old one.
- The difference has to be noted In-Universe as an unusually large age gap. The ages of the actors /actresses are immaterial. Many a movie involves a male character of older appearance with deliberately vague age being interested in a girl whose actress is young enough to be the actor's daughter, but the gap is never brought up. This has a lot more to do with double standards against older actresses than overcoming age hurdles in a relationship. Voice actors in animated works definitely do not count. Many movies use older male actors whose character's age is deliberately vague being interested in a girl played by a female actor who is young enough to be their daughter, but the gap is never brought up. This applies for live-action and voice acting.
- This is a Romance trope. There has to be an actual romantic relationship of at least a modest length to qualify; brief flings or one-off encounters don't qualify.
- For creatures with lifespans different from the human normal (extended or ephemeral), apply the above rules generally. If a 1,000 year-old ageless vampire is dating a 100 year-old vampire, this trope could apply, but not if they are dating a 500 year-old vampire. You might consider Mayfly–December Romance instead, where one creature has a (much) longer life expectancy than the other (but isn't always in different stages of life).
So... Til Murder Do Us Part, and Domestic Abuse don't wick to each other, except for the former having this example:
- Julia Valerian poisons her abusive second husband in A Voice in the Wind.#
Should they crosswick? Would Til Murder Do Us Part be when Domestic Abuse leads to a death? Or does it have to be premeditated murder instead of just accidental?
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
To answer your last question, no. However, I'm not sure they need to Cross Wick. I'm also uncertain why The Bluebeard and Black Widow are mentioned on Domestic Abuse.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Two-Person Love Triangle, is it a Sub-Trope of either Living a Double Life, or its Sub-Trope, Secret Identity?
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Living a Double Life, and I'll rely on You've Got Mail for the argument; Meg Ryan falls in love with the penpal who also the guy she hates for pressuring her out of business.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Faux Death is the magic version of Human Popsicle? Or any kind of stasis, but not cryogenically?
I'm de-wicking Suspended Animation, and I'm not sure, plus I might've put some things in the wrong trope...
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I'm inclined to think of Faux Death as a very broad Super-Trope, and Human Popsicle as the sci-fi subtrope involving cryogenics.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
- Instituting that world take a TRS though, wouldn't it?
New thing, since Kill Tally has been launched.
Is Kill Tally a Super-Trope of Body-Count Competition, or not?
I'm not sure, since you don't need a physical tally, if you just count in your head...
Kill Tally says:
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Man, I need to avoid forgetting about this thread.
Yeah, I think Kill Tally and Body-Count Competition are just sister tropes that revolve around the same concept but tackle different aspects of it. Not sure if there's a missing supertrope, though.
~High Crate ([1]
: Yeah, well, that's the problem when the word "titan" is often used as a fancy alternative for "giant". The Titans of Attack on Titan and Dungeons & Dragons are just examples of Our Giants Are Bigger that happen to be "titans" In Name Only; the former especially lack much of the traits that are explained in the description, while the latter — at least in 5th edition, apparently — are explicitly said to be favored by the giants' gods. So I say that these examples belong in Our Giants Are Bigger, if they're not already there. Perhaps we should even make a trope about the conflation of actual titans with giants, a la Dinosaurs Are Dragons, and keep Our Titans Are Different strictly about true Titans/Primordials.
Just to add to the fun, in Norse Mythology the terms "Titans" and "Giants" designate the same group.
~crazysamaritan: I like this. The first deletion confused the hell out of me, but that was answered by the final added line.
Reading Superior Successor, it claims the following to be subtropes. All of them I find to be dubious. In fact, Surpassed the Teacher is the only trope listed on the article that I indeed agree to be a subtrope.
- Asskicking Equals Authority
- Born Winner: You can be a Born Winner who's also the child of Born Winners, maybe even from an entire family of nothing but Born Winners.
- Enfant Terrible: What exactly is innately "superior" about them? They could simply be a child who also happens to be a psychopath, with no improved abilities/skills over their peers whatsoever.
- Fetus Terrible: Again, nothing innate about the trope that implies "superiority" to the predecessor.
- Flawed Prototype: This is one possible counterpart to this trope, not a subtrope thereof.
- Goo-Goo-Godlike: See Born Winner.
- Klingon Promotion: It's about being promoted as a direct consequence of you arranging for your predecessor's death, whether directly or indirectly. It doesn't mean that you're actually superior to them; in fact, you could be no better or even worse.
- Lamarck Was Right: This just involves the passing on of acquired traits to your descendants. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll be better than you.
- Obsolete Mentor: Just because this trope is a natural consequence of Superior Successor doesn't mean it's a subtrope.
What are your thoughts?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Mostly responding to , but I've got one new question which I'll include at the end of this post.
My question; does Trilogy count as an example/Sub-Trope for Multi-Volume Work? Is there something I'm missing where Trilogy Creep disqualifies it from being a Multi-Volume Work? Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
So, Title by Number is just "Title has a number in it", right?
So, Numbered Sequels, is a subtrope?
Is Episode Zero: The Beginning a subtrope of Numbered Sequels as it says it is?
Edited by Malady on Apr 24th 2019 at 3:49:19 AM
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Yeah, I'd be okay with Title by Number being a rather general "Title has a number in it" trope, so long as we're turning it into an index for the subtropes. That would make Episode Zero: The Beginning, Numbered Sequels, and Running Time in the Title subtropes.
Yes, I think Episode Zero: The Beginning should be a subtrope of Numbered Sequels, as a Prequel numbered 0.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Do you think we should take changes to the Description Improvement Thread? I'm fine with changing it from what we've got here, if you're okay with it.
So, if we describe Episode Zero: The Beginning as a Numbered Sequels subtrope, then this would be wrong, because it's not a number indicating a prequel, a.k.a a separate work, so much as it's numbering a year?
- Psychedelic Epiphany Series: Yearly Epiphany: The first chapter, Year 0: Hearthswarming Epiphany, about the beginning of the first year, or zeroth year, of Epiphany's life.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I figure wait a bit to see if anyone else has comments, but otherwise yes.
The "Year 0" question is interesting, I tried to do a bit of analyzing, and you're right that it's just a Sequel, not a prequel. It might still fit your Year Of Title TLP, though. Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Other times, the works are meant to be individual stories that stand on their own. This can be the intention of the author from the start. Other times, such as with an unexpected Cash-Cow Franchise, one book that was meant to be self contained becomes outrageously popular, prompting sequels.
I'm of the mind that several of Mixed Ancestry's listed subtropes should be axed for not requiring mixed ancestry.
- Ambiguously Brown: You don't have to be of mixed ethnic ancestry to have an ambiguously brown skin coloration.
- But Not Too Black: Ditto.
- But Not Too Foreign: The description explicitly names several possible variations that don't require mixed ancestry, e.g. born in one country but raised in another.
- Hiding Your Heritage: The "heritage" can be that you're the son of a notorious criminal, and that connection alone makes TheGovernment out for your blood by default even if you never committed any crimes yourself.
- Chocolate Baby: It's qualified in the list with "sometimes", so I assume it refers to cases where the child isn't actually biologically related to either of the supposed parents, and their real parents are shown/stated to be not of mixed ancestry.
- Twofer Token Minority: Even an ethnically homogenous Black person can qualify for this trope if they're female, homosexual, Jewish, or belong to some other group with a history of persecution as a societal minority.
- Warring Natures: Despite the description, the laconic and the examples show that the trope extends to cases of Liminal Being that don't involve Mixed Ancestry.
Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 25th 2019 at 8:21:03 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
. I don't think this project should be sending tropes back to TLP for any reason.
An article about Literally Shattered Lives that accidentally links to Human Popsicle would be great evidence in favour of renaming.
Mixed Ancestry: I think most of these belong more to the See Also section. I think we should list Super-Trope (Liminal Being), then subtropes, then "The following tropes have frequent overlap with Mixed Ancestry:" for the rest, including Child of Two Worlds, Extra Parent Conception, Lineage Comes from the Father, Semi-Divine, and Nephilim.
I'm pretty sure Ambiguously Brown is impossible to do with Mixed Ancestry, since knowledge of the ancestry is supposed to explain the skin colour. Not 100% certain, though. It's recently come up elsewhere on the wiki.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
What, if any relation, between Characterization Tags and Content Warnings?
A tag can also be a content warning, if it's Dark! or Angsty! or someother things that some readers might not want?
I thought I saw some fanfics that tag their content, not just their characters, but that's few and far between?
"Anime Addventure" did it.
Would Content Warnings be just a site-wide trope, or would it apply to fics as well, since the author would be the one tagging their stories like in Fimfiction.net has Dark, Gore, Sex, etc, tags?
"Dark" would count as a vague Content Warning, right? Like in Dungeon Keeper Ami?
Edited by Malady on Apr 27th 2019 at 6:22:07 AM
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I think you're confused about what Characterization Tags are. Sounds like you're thinking of the long list of tags at the beginning of an Archive Of Our Own fanfic, where there's definitely overlap, as those tags are used as Content Warnings.
But actually, Characterization Tags is a shorthand notation to convey an Alternate Character Interpretation for a specific character. I.e. Fem!Bob or Rational!Alice or Angry!Gay!Charlie. I have a hard time seeing how these could be used as Content Warnings, unless you did something like Suicidal!Bob or Transphobic!Alice, which is not common usage.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
^ - Fanfic Header is a redirect to Characterization Tags...
But I think you might be right.
However, "Dark!Harry", would that be an implied Content Warning that the fic is gonna be dark, 'cause a character is?
Edited by Malady on Apr 27th 2019 at 8:04:40 AM
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I wouldn't make that assumption, but I don't know if other people would. There's "dark and broody" and "thinks/does murder". I can see either getting Dark!Harry tags. A Harry that emotionally invests in the fact that his parents were part of a wonderful world, that they would've been the ones to teach him about magic and quidditch and diagon alley... Except for one fateful Halloween night... That would be a Dark!Harry, but probably not Dark warning. Again, I don't know if other people would assume that character tags would be content warnings.
Yes, Fanfic Headers is a broader concept than Character Tags.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Let's solve Fanfic Header first, because it's easier.
Do we have a better trope to point it to, and/or if we're disambig-ing, where should it go?
Do we have a general thread for splitting off redirects into their own separate tropes?
Like Tritagonist pointing to Deuteragonist? Since they're different terms and mean different things?
Edited by Malady on Apr 28th 2019 at 5:43:44 AM
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I'm not aware of any. I think it's just taken to TLP.
Those two are similar enough to be the same page.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
- Ok. No change to Tritagonist.
Speak in Unison is indexed in Mind Manipulation, and Paranormal Tropes...
Since not all examples are going to fit under those indexes, should I remove it from them?
Also, does Finish Dialogue in Unison seem specifically different enough from Speak in Unison, to get its own trope?
Edited by Malady on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:57:01 AM
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If we rule that Our Titans Are Different is a Sub-Trope of Our Gods Are Different, then all titans would need to be gods. Several examples of Our Titans Are Different (such as Attack on Titan and Dungeons & Dragons) would need to be deleted.
I think defining Our Titans Are Different such that all titans need to be gods would be overly restrictive. Therefore I would argue that OTAD is not a Sub-Trope of OGAD.