Is this an example?

Going by whats happening, i think thats whats happening to the Humangears; they are starting to feel some sort of joy or satisfaction for their job. Alternatively, they maybe starting to want to help humans by their own choice and not by their programming. The muscle comedian was shown happy to make people laugh and Mamoru was happy to ne appreciated for keeping people safe.

We could wait to see this weeks episode to make truly sure ehats going on.

Sure, but how do we know this isn't normal HumaGear behavior? And how do we know that the bad guys are specifically looking for this behavior? Mamoru in particular seemed to be a target of convenience; I'm not sure the hackers had the chance to scout the scene ahead of time.

Edited by DragonRanger on Sep 11th 2019 at 10:29:22 AM

YMMV.Pom Poko lists it as an example of What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?, but its entry on Super Sex Organs potholes to What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?. Which is correct? IMDb lists it as rated PG.

An update on the Kamen Rider example; it was added today to Grew Beyond Their Programming itself:

• Kamen Rider Zero-One is about a world on the cusp of the technological singularity, with the HumaGear androids that have become a staple of civilization now starting to become self-aware. Their growth is actually portrayed as quite benign, with the HumaGear who reach this point doing so by gaining a sense of accomplishment in their work. However, reaching this point also allows a group of hackers to hijack the newly-aware HumaGear and turn them into monstrous killing machines.

I still have my previously-stated doubts: we don't know for sure if this is in fact "beyond their programming", and we don't know if there is any connection between it and the hacking.

Edited by DragonRanger on Sep 11th 2019 at 9:33:31 AM

In Sakura Wars, Maria started off as a soldier for the White Army during the 1917 Russian Revolution. After her captain was gunned down, however, Maria became a sniper. Three years later, she traveled to New York City to became a mafia hitwoman. Eventually, Maria went back to camouflage when she was recruited into the Imperial Combat Revue's Flower Division to fight the demons. Does that count as an example of From Camouflage to Criminal?

Also, in High School DXD, Riser Phenex comes from a noble family. Unlike his siblings, Riser presents himself as an initially cocky and prideful person until Issei defeats him. Does he count as a true Black Sheep?

Edited by gjjones on Sep 12th 2019 at 10:40:39 AM

From Outdated by Canon:

General examples:

• Before the release of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, it was commonly theorized that Boba Fett would be the one to kill Mace Windu as revenge for killing his father, Jango, in the previous film. Instead, Palpatine kills him with the help of Anakin.
• Diamond Tiara's mother was usually written as her deceased Good Parent Morality Pet. This was before Spoiled Rich was revealed to be very much alive and emotionally abusive.

These are redundant with Jossed, there was some debate over this before. I propose to keep the tropes separate, "General examples" have to list at least one example of a fic so outdated. Or maybe "General examples" shouldn't be allowed as it's redundant. Thoughts?

I asked ATT and it argues for cutting "General examples" as Examples Are Not General. I'd like a second opinion before such a big edit/change.

The examples on Outdated by Canon are split into general and specific, with general taking up half the page. So if those two examples are too general, then the problem is much bigger than just those two.

Is this an example of The Treachery of Images?

• The Dragon Prince: In season 2, Lujanne discusses the perception of reality:
  Lujanne: The arcanum of the moon is about understanding the relationship between appearances and reality. Most people believe that reality is truth and appearances are deceiving. But those of us who know the moon arcanum understand we can only truly know the appearance itself. You can never touch the so-called reality that lies just beyond the reach of your own perception.

Ranma ½ is listed as a Cult Classic on the YMMV page. Is it? It seems too mainstream to be. I wasn't around during the heyday in the 1990s, but it seemed to be within the top 5 anime fandoms internationally in the 1990s.

Maybe it's a cult classic in the western market? Though, that, Inuyasha and Lum are the most popular series for the manga artist.

Lum definitely is cult or lower. But Ranma? Nah!

Lum is Cult Classic in general or just the US?

Italy LOVES Urusei Yatsura aka Lum, but it isnt all that popular outside of Japan.

From Webcomic Time:

• Holby City appears to take place over the course of a single day, but in Real Time it would take a week to shoot the scenes for location filming. However, it's murky about what timescale the show follows, yet Comic-Book Time does not apply here as the characters do age In-Universe.

Not sure if my example needs a slight re-write, since In-Universe the show zig-zags between Extremely Short Timespan, Real Time and very rarely, a flashback episode.

And from Series.Holby City:

• Expy / Captain Ersatz: An expy of Miley Cyrus, and one of Lady Gaga have appeared in background scenes on occasion. Neither are speaking characters.
  • In the episode My Hero a Captain Ersatz of The Vampire Diaries Vicki appeared, as a background character.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Sep 13th 2019 at 7:23:21 PM

YMMV.Ducktales 2017 They Wasteda Perfectly Good Plot:

• While making Magica an Abusive Parent to whom Lena is a reluctant but helpless slave doubles down on Magica's newfound darkness, many commented that it would have been way more narratively interesting if Lena had been so brought up as to legitimately want to help her aunt's evil endeavor, making her dilemma of whether to help Magica or save Webby be more about an actual, personal dilemma of who she wants to be, than a mere, less morally-complex choice of evils. Then we learn that she's Magica's Living Shadow...
• Quite a number of characters have missing/dead family members, but aside from the Della Duck arc, none of the other missing/dead family members are being addressed, including but not limited to Webby's parents (her mother being Beakley's daughter), the triplets' father, Fenton's father, Donald's parents, and Scrooge's sisters. So far, no word on any of their whereabouts or whether they are even still alive. In Lena's case, she doesn't have parents, she's Magica's Living Shadow.
• All of the characters (with the exception of Webby and the boys) just gloss over the fact that Lena is a Living Shadow and is apparently destroyed by Magica. But Beakley and Scrooge not even acknowledging Lena is pretty egregious. In "Terror of the Terra-firmians!", Beakley had expressed interest (and concern) for Lena's family status, not to mention being wary about Lena possibly being a bad influence to Webby - but she is never shown reacting to Lena's true nature, nor does she even mourn her loss. Scrooge promised Lena a place in his family once Magica was dealt with, but he doesn't even mourn Lena's (apparent) death and (seemingly) forgets all about his promise to rescue her.
• Lena being revealed as nothing more than a Living Shadow has drawn the ire of some fans who were hoping that she turned out to be the daughter of Magica's brother, Poe De Spell. On that note, Magica mentions that her family is "nothing but trouble", but given that she doesn't even consider Lena family (or even a real person), the lack of any other De Spell relatives seems like a waste of what could've been a complex Foil to the Mc Duck-Duck family.
• Season 2 spends a couple episodes building up a quite interesting rift between Della and Louie, with Della truly stepping up as a parent to curb his increasing greed and ruthlessness, while Louie still holds a grudge over Della's own recklessness leaving them apart for so long. Then it's all swept under the rug as Louie learns his lesson thanks to a Space Whale Aesop that a monster will come after you if you get too rich.

Edited by LadyErinNY on Sep 13th 2019 at 4:09:33 AM

Reports about complaining go in this thread.

Well I wasn't sure if they were actually complaining or if they counted as this trope.

Does Black Comedy Cannibalism count when dealing with sapient fishes and Mermaid when a mermaid eats the fish like in The Mermaid Princess's Guilty Meal

Does it count as Unintentionally Sympathetic when parts of the fandom hate a character for their actions so much that it retroactively causes other parts of the fandom to defend said character?

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 14th 2019 at 3:45:38 PM

Give an example since im confused.

I was talking about the western hemisphere when I mentioned Ranma. In Japan it was even more popular. I don't think it counts as a Cult Classic either way.

This is the example I was thinking of:

• Unintentionally Sympathetic: Pink Diamond, in a weird way. While it's pretty much agreed that her abandoning of Spinel was a terrible thing to do, many disagree with notion that she's the "irredeemable villain" that so many have wanted from the series. Some feel like it's unfair to completely ignore all the good she did as Rose Quartz (standing up to the other Diamonds, giving Gems a chance to choose their destiny, giving birth to Steven, etc.) and only focus on her few, admittedly huge, mistakes. Adding to this, many have pointed out it's unfair that Pink is apparently "irredeemable" while the Diamonds', who raised Pink and therefore had a large influence on her actions, are forgiven so easily despite having done much worse.

More Pink Diamond drama. I delete it.

Does a Flashback Echo have to actually be shown to the viewers to count? Like if a character is having traumatic flashbacks, does the audience have to see some glimpse of what they're seeing?

From YMMV.The Fairly Odd Parents:

• Unfortunate Implications: The reason "It's a Wishful Life" is so infamous. Timmy Turner, a proxy for the kids in the audience, is told the world is better off without him. (Interestingly, the episode completely ignores Tootie and Mark Chang, who would almost surely be worse off without him...) And if that isn't enough, it's made even worse by the fact that the "improvements" Jorgen shows him make no sense: Mr. and Mrs. Turner have a mansion and a gifted daughter who's won several Academy Awards (which sends very... mixed messages), Francis is not a gray-skinned bully ^note Jorgen tells Timmy the reason he's Francis's preferred victim of bullying and abuse is because he exists. In other words, it's somehow his fault Francis bullies him., AJ has a full head of hair and graduated from high school when he was 5, Crocker is a purple-haired Harvard professor ^note  That one, at least, has a leg to stand on; Jorgen brings up the fact that Timmy's time-travelling in "The Secret Origin of Denzel Crocker" resulted in a young Crocker losing his Fairy Godparents and being twisted into the crackpot he is now. , Chester has a triple-wide trailer on gold blocks and Cosmo and Wanda for Fairy Godparents (and they're happy they have an unselfish child who doesn't wear a pink hat), Vicky works in the hospital spraying laughing gas, Elmer doesn't have a boil on his nose, and the Chicago Cubs have won the World Series. The worst part? Remember the theme song: "Timmy is an average kid"? So, the world is better off without average kids? The other worst part? Jorgen sends people who made the world better by wishing they were never born (sacrificing their existence for the good of all) to what looks like Hell of all places. Jorgen is essentially goading Timmy into committing suicide and therefore sending himself into Hell, all in the name of a particularly cruel test of character. Also, the amount of enjoyment he gets seeing Timmy suffering from seeing everyone he knows having a better life without him is uncomfortable, to say the least, and makes him appear as a full-blown case of God Is Evil. Oh, and don't forget the entry on this episode in Family-Unfriendly Aesop.

Given that the link is a YouTube review, is that considered a valid source for Unfortunate Implications?

Edited by costanton11 on Sep 14th 2019 at 8:41:37 AM