Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
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- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.
As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 13th 2024 at 9:30:24 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
This might warrant a deeper cleanup since it is a recurring problem we can't really do much about here.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
That sounds like an end-run around policies on troping real life people. Yes it is available as words typed onto pages bound into books, but it doesn't make it tropable.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
To be honest, from a quick glance I wonder if that trope (Lover and Beloved) needs a TRS trip. A lot of examples are "same-sex relationship with a large age-gap" but appear to lack the "mentor" aspect.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Threw it on Tropes Needing TRS for now.
Here's a summary of the examples from Lover and Beloved that I thought could possibly run up against NRLEP. (I'm only focusing on examples with this particular issue; there are other examples with other problems as Septimus Heap mentioned.) I've included my own thoughts on some of them but would love to hear other people's.
- Les amitiés particulières (1964), the film version of Roger Peyrefitte's novel of the same name, set in a Jesuit Boarding School for boys. In the book, the schoolboy lovers are fourteen and twelve; in the film, they are fifteen and thirteen. Peyrefitte met his twelve-year-old beloved on the set. That last sentence is clearly troping real life. Cut it.
- In John Schlesinger's Sunday, Bloody Sunday (1971), a doctor in his fifties is having an affair with a 25-year-old male artist, who's also having an affair with a woman. Both partners are a bit jealous over their younger lover. We also see another man in his 20s whom it's implied the doctor has had sex with before, perhaps paying him for it. Originally, the age difference wasn't intended to be so large: Schlesinger had wanted Alan Bates, then in his mid-thirties, for the part of the doctor, but Bates couldn't do it so Peter Finch, mid-fifties, played the role instead. Schlesinger got the idea for the film from a relationship he himself had had with a much younger man. They'd broken up but remained on amicable terms. Incidentally, Alan Bates also had relationships with younger men. The last sentence should definitely go; arguably the last three.
- Gerard Blain's <<Les Amis>> (The "Friends") won the Golden Leopard for Best First Film at the 1971 Locarno Film Festival. In the film, fortysomething Philippe and sixteen-year-old Paul have a classic lover/beloved relationship. Philippe is a fairly wealthy businessman who has no children and whose marriage has become a formality. He is in love with Paul and sexually attracted to him. He pays for Paul to stay at a fancy resort and have riding lessons, comforts him when he gets his heart broken by a girl, supports him in his ambition to be an actor, and despite his own private feelings of jealousy and possessiveness, encourages Paul to go off with friends his own age, in the interests of Paul's development. Paul, though basically heterosexual, is happy to sleep with Philippe and loves him back, "in a different way", according to Blain. Being fatherless, neglected by his family, and poor, he is grateful for all Philippe gives him. Un enfant dans la foule (A Child in the Crowd), a 1976 film by Blain, is set in Paris during and just after the Second World War. A thirteen-year-old boy, also fatherless, poor and neglected by his family, is taken up by various men and also by one woman, who a friend of one of the men. They all have sex with him. One man and the woman are only after sex and treat the boy quite cavalierly, though not cruelly. Another man, a teacher, separated from his wife and kids, temporarily becomes a good mentor to the boy, though the man eventually decides that he can't provide what the boy needs because he doesn't want to take responsibility for him. Blain's films on this subject are highly autobiographical, drawing on his experiences with adults when he was a kid. The teacher in particular is based on someone, also married with kids, who was very important to him back then. Setting aside the wall of text issue (I'm not familiar enough with the material to edit it down), are the ending sentences crossing a line?
- Montreal Main (1974), a highly autobiographical film by Frank Vitale. A photographer in his late 20s, also named Frank, ostensibly straight, lives with a bunch of gay hippy types and his Heterosexual Life-Partner of five years, who is a straight man of the same age, nicknamed Bozo. Frank and Bozo experiment with mutual masturbation together, but it's not much fun. Then Bozo starts a relationship with a young woman. Frank strikes up a friendship with a 12-year-old boy, Johnny. The nature of the friendship is ambiguous; according to the filmmaker, Frank isn't sure what he wants from Johnny. Frank's gay friends object, not because of the potentially sexual aspects of the relationship — one of them at least has had sex with younger guys — but because of the emotional intensity, which they say could be damaging to a young kid. Johnny's father forbids Frank to see Johnny again, but the boy comes round declaring he wants to live with Frank, who is too scared to go through with it, declaring that he's not ready to be Johnny's father. There's also a scene in which a man eyes up two boys, Johnny and a pal, playing an arcade game, and is chased off by one of the gay friends. This is a film a someone made about himself; is that any different from a memoir?
- Butley (1974), the film of Simon Gray's play about a professor of English whose wife and younger boyfriend each, on the same day, leave him for another man. The eponymous protagonist is played by Alan Bates, who himself had several relationships with younger men. The second sentence is irrelevant. Cut it.
- Die Konsequenz (The Consequence) (1977), based on an autobiographical novel of the same name by Alexander Ziegler. Martin, an actor of about 30, is, like Ziegler was, sent to prison for sex with his 15-year-old boyfriend — who now has a girlfriend. Martin meets Thomas, the 16-year-old gay son of the prison warder, and the two fall in love and, at Thomas' instigation, have sex. When Martin gets out of prison he finds that Thomas' parents and boss reject Thomas because of his homosexuality, so he and Thomas leave town together, get an apartment and plan for Thomas to go back to school. However, Thomas is taken away by social services and sent to a very unpleasant home for delinquent boys. Martin breaks him out, but Thomas ends up with an older man who says he'll help him but instead blackmails him into becoming his boyfriend. Then the older man throws Thomas out and Thomas becomes a prostitute and finally, having nowhere else to go, returns to the boys' home. At 21 he is released and he and Martin, who in the meantime has had a casual boyfriend nearer his own age, reunite, but Thomas seems irretrievably damaged. He attempts suicide and then runs away from hospital, and there the film ends. The example mentions that the source is autobiographical, but only discusses the film itself and not its real-life inspiration. I'd say keep as is?
- The Lost Boys, a 1978 BBC miniseries by Andrew Birkin. It's a fictionalised account of J. M. Barrie's (Peter Pan) relationships with the five Llewellyn Davies boys. Birkin is the world's foremost Barrie expert and also wrote a factual account, J. M. Barrie and the Lost Boys.
- In Abuse (1983) by Arthur Bressan, who spent most of his career making gay porn films, a 31-year-old gay film student is making a documentary about child abuse. He meets Thomas, a somewhat effeminate 14-year-old whose parents have brutally physically mistreated him for the past six years, and Thomas becomes the centrepiece of the documentary. Thomas is also gay and becomes interested in the filmmaker. They have a relationship, and eventually run away together so that Thomas can escape from his awful parents. Bressan says this was based on his own experiences with a real boy like Thomas; they became "friends, then lovers, then finally ex-lovers", although, as in the film, Bressan's friends disapproved of Bressan's being involved with such a young boy. This film was praised by Vito Russo, author of The Celluloid Closet. The direct quote from the filmmaker about his real-life relationship makes this dodgy for me.
- Voor een verloren soldaat (For a Lost Soldier), a 1992 film set during the Second World War, portrays the brief love affair between a twelve-year-old Dutch boy and a young Canadian soldier, with elements of this trope invoked. The source book, an autobiographical novel by choreographer Rudi van Dantzig, portrays the soldier pretty much forcing himself on the boy, who is upset by this but is also drawn to the soldier and keeps coming back to him. The film turns this into a gentle, consensual romance. Once again, the example mentions the autobiographical source but doesn't shoehorn in extraneous detail. Keep as is?
- Wilde (1997), a fictionalised account of the relationship between Oscar Wilde and Bosie. Stephen Fry plays Wilde.
- Gods and Monsters (1998), a fictionalised depiction of the last days of James Whale. Whale is famous both for directing Frankenstein (1931) and Bride of Frankenstein and for being openly gay in 1950s Hollywood. The film portrays him becoming attracted to his new gardener, a handsome young ex-Marine. The gardener is straight but Whale assures him that he has no sexual intentions. This turns out not to be the case, and the gardener freaks out. Including this because it seems like the right way to write this kind of example. Keep as is.
- La virgen de los sicarios (Our Lady of the Assassins) (2000), based on Fernando Vallejo's semiautobiographical novel of the same name, portrays the love between a 50-year-old writer and a 16-year-old hustler and hitman in MedellÃn, Colombia. Semiautobiographical suggests enough distance from Real Life to be kept, maybe?
- Eban and Charley (2000). 29-year-old Eban meets Charley, just turned 15, and they fall in love. Somewhat subverted in that Charley initiates the sex. The filmmaker said this was based on a true story he knew of: a teenaged boy, mature for his age, had an older boyfriend; the man's friends disapproved of the relationship because of the age gap and the man broke up with the boy, who was devastated. In the film the lovers get a happy ending: they run away together. I'm more inclined to keep this since it's an anecdote with no names attached.
- Lord Byron wrote a series of celebrated love poems about John Edleston, whom he had fallen in love with when Byron was 17 and Edleston 15, and who died six years later. He also wrote a poem of unrequited love to 15-year-old Loukas Chalandritsanos, 20 years younger than Byron.
- Ralph Chubb, an outlier of the Uranian group, created rhapsodic woodcuts and drawings about the beauty of the adolescent male and the liberating joy of sex between men and boys. In real life, except for a brief fling with a 15-year-old when he was 19, his sex life was unfulfilled. Chubb developed an involved personal mythology, claiming among other things to have had a vision which made clear that he was the prophet of a boy-god who would arrive to save England. "I announce a secret event as tremendous and mysterious as any that has occurred in the spiritual history of the world. I announce the inauguration of a Third Dispensation, the dispensation of the Holy Ghost on earth, and the visible advent thereof on earth in the form of a Young Boy of thirteen years old, naked perfect and unblemished." Cut the sentence that literally starts with "in real life".
- Stefan George, a German poet of aristocratic sympathy whose verse often echoes Greek forms, wrote love poems to adolescent boys, most of them dedicated to the cult of a dead lad named Maximin, whom George had loved.
- The Priest and the Acolyte, a short story by Oxford undergraduate John Francis Bloxam, who had also written a couple of romantic poems about boys. In the story, a 28-year-old Anglo-Catholic priest and a 14-year-old acolyte (all acolytes were boys then, of course) fall in love with each other. The boy is the one who starts their relationship: he comes to the priest's room at night and confesses his love. They don't have sex, but they kiss and hug and at night they spend hours together in the priest's rooms, the acolyte sitting on the priest's lap. Their love brings them both happiness and helps them conduct Mass better too. Eventually another priest, the protagonist's superior, discovers them together, whereat the protagonist responds to this other priest's condemnation with a passionate defense of his own nature and his love for the boy. Afraid of the fallout, and wanting to be together forever, the priest and the acolyte commit suicide together by drinking poisoned Communion wine at a two-person Mass, said by the priest and served at by the acolyte, for the repose of their own souls. This story appeared in the first and only edition of Bloxam's periodical The Chameleon: a Bazaar of Dangerous and Smiling Chances. Bosie Douglas' poem Two Loves, containing the line "I am the Love that dares not speak its name" also appeared in this magazine. The contents of the magazine were used against Oscar Wilde at his trial, giving Wilde the opportunity to make the speech in which he said: " 'The Love that dare not speak its name' in this century is such a great affection of an elder for a younger man as there was between David and Jonathan, such as Plato made the very basis of his philosophy, and such as you find in the sonnets of Michelangelo and Shakespeare. It is that deep spiritual affection that is as pure as it is perfect. It dictates and pervades great works of art, like those of Shakespeare and Michelangelo, and those two letters of mine, such as they are. It is in this century misunderstood ... It is beautiful, it is fine, it is the noblest form of affection. There is nothing unnatural about it. ... The world mocks at it, and sometimes puts one in the pillory for it." This speech got Wilde a standing ovation. Wilde also said that The Priest and the Acolyte was badly written but refused to condemn it as immoral; this refusal weighed heavily against him. While Wilde's health was being broken in prison, and then while he was dying in exile, Bloxam became an Anglo-Catholic priest and lived a quiet and apparently blameless life, well-liked by his parishioners. This wall of text starts out fine and then turns into a history lesson. Everything that isn't the plot of the story should go.
- John Henry Mackay, individualist anarchist, born in Scotland and raised in Germany, wrote various political works and also, from 1905 to 1913, a series of works dedicated to the emancipation of pederasty: Die Bücher der namenlosen Liebe (Books of the Nameless Love). In these books, the boys loved by men are 13 to 18 years old. One book, Fenny Skaller, is a thinly fictionalised account of Mackay's own life and his attraction to and romantic love for boys of 14-17, and particularly those of 15-16. The title character finds that some of the boys willing to sleep with him sponge off him; others are only after thrills; others disappear from his life without warning. Another book in the series, Am Rande des Lebens (On the Margin of Life) is a collection of Mackay's poems: about unrequited love for boys, about quick casual sex with boys, about sentimental longing for boys only seen once or twice, about judges who condemn men who like boys. Mackay also wrote the pederastic novel Der Puppenjunge (The Hustler). In the novel, a 15-year-old boy, Gunther, comes to Berlin from the countryside and becomes a hustler. Hermann, a young man working for a publisher, falls head over heels in love with Gunther, who at first doesn't care, and leaves him for a wealthy count who simply likes to watch Gunther lying naked on a bearskin. Gunther grows bored and returns to Hermann, who is deliriously happy, but then Gunther is picked up on the street and taken into care by the authorities. He escapes and comes back to Hermann, whom he grows to love in return. Then they are discovered, Hermann is imprisoned for 'gross indecency', and Gunther is sent away to be a butcher's apprentice. Christopher Isherwood praised this book's realistic portrayal of the Berlin homosexual world. The last bits referencing the poetry collection and the novel are maybe salvageable. Everything else, yikes.
- Some writings by Karol Szymanowski, one of Poland's greatest composers. He wrote four poems in French, then the lingua franca of Eastern Europe, to his fifteen-year-old Russian boyfriend Boris Kochno, and also wrote a pederastic-themed novel, now lost.
- Wilfred Owen, the greatest poet of the First World War, wrote romantically-tinged poems to the various boys he befriended, as well as one about a boy prostitute and another about surreptitiously kissing the hand of a boy acolyte.
- Siegfried Sassoon, who knew Owen during the war, wrote a few poems about his grief over death from a bullet wound of young David Thomas, with whom Sassoon had been in unrequited love.
- T. E. Lawrence wrote a couple of poems about Dahoum, an Arab youth whom he loved and who died young.
- Jan Hanlo, one of the most important Dutch poets, also a prose writer in the latter part of his career, was attracted to boys and wrote a lot about his feelings. Of particular significance are his love poems to a twelve-year-old named Josje, and a book of letters, Go to the mosk, which concentrates mainly on Hanlo's sexual orientation.
- Jean Genet's novels, memoirs and poems record his attraction to, infatuation with and relationships with various somewhat younger men.
- Harold Norse, Beat poet, wrote several poems about attraction to and sex with 14-year-old boys.
- Frits Bernard's two 1960 novellae. Costa Brava is about the love between a Venezuelan man and a twelve-year-old refugee boy during the Spanish Civil War. The man succeeds in reuniting the boy with his family; they lie to him, telling him the man has died, but years later the two meet again by chance and affirm their love for one another.Vervolgde Minderheid (Persecuted Minority) is about a fifteen-year-old boy's love affair with his male teacher; the man is imprisoned for the relationship and makes up his mind that on his release he will emigrate to get away from the Netherlands' legal and social condemnation of pederasty. Bernard was a psychologist and sexologist who campaigned for the acceptance of homosexuality and particularly pederasty.
- Hakim Bey, anarchist Sufi, writes a great many poems about man-boy relationships as a form of liberation from the chains of the family and society.
- In Stephen Fry's The Liar, the main character writes a play with a Victorian setting, in which a man rescues a 14-year-old boy from prostitution but then, to his horror, kind of accidentally sleeps with him. Said main character is in love with a slightly younger boy at his boys' school and also spends a while ...or does he? as a prostitute working Piccadilly Circus, picked up by older men. He's in his later teens at this point; some of the other boy prostitutes are as young as 11.
- The schoolboy version of this trope is a major element in Fry's memoir Moab is My Washpot, although he mentions that sometimes older boys just went for younger ones because they still kind of looked like girls. The young Stephen also had a comparable but platonic relationship with a younger boy whom he saw as kind of a cute, helpless little pet and therefore decided to take under his wing. His main schoolboy crush was a boy his own age, though. Shoehorning in the memoir as a subheading under a fictional example. Cut that part.
- Fernando Vallejo's semiautobiographical La virgen de los sicarios (Our Lady of the Assassins), which was later made into a film, portrays the love between a 50-year-old writer and a 16-year-old hustler and hitman in MedellÃn, Colombia.
- Tom Robinson's classic gay anthem from 1976, 'Glad to Be Gay', contains, among other condemnations of mistreatment of homosexuals, the line "Make sure your boyfriend's at least 21." At the time, the UK age of consent for heterosexual acts was 16, whereas for homosexual acts it was 21. This caused not a few hassles for men with younger boyfriends. Later it was lowered to 18, but not until 2000 were the ages of consent equalised. By that point, the idea that a grown man and a 16-year-old boy might want to have sex together had become pretty taboo, so the campaigners' arguments focused on equality and the rights of teenage gay lovers.
- The full line is "Make sure your boyfriend's at least 21/So only your friends and your brothers get done." (Note: 'to get done' in UK slang means to get into legal trouble.) This was a reference to Peter Wells, a young man who had been imprisoned for having sex with a lad of 18. Robinson sang this very pointedly at the Secret Policeman's Ball, an Amnesty International charity concert. Amnesty were at the time refusing to acknowledge those imprisoned for homosexual offences as human rights cases.
- Christopher Marlowe:
- In Edward II, a character recites a list of famous male/male couples, justifying homosexual relationships by saying that "The mightiest kings have had their minions...And not kings only, but the wisest men." Most of these are lover/beloved couples: Hercules and Hylas, Tully and Octavius, Socrates and Alcibiades, Achilles and Patroclus — Achilles and Patroclus are not said to be lovers in the Iliad, but were seen as erastes and eromenos by later Greeks, although in the Iliad Patroclus is the elder. Alexander and Hephaestion, who were coevals, are also mentioned in the list. The historical Edward and his boyfriend Gaveston were actually the same age, but lover/beloved was the predominant homosexual trope in Marlowe's day: people learned the trope from the Greek and Roman classics they read at school, as the list shows. Marlowe himself is supposed to have said "All they that love not tobacco and boys are fools." Another last-line shoehorning.
- Gender-Inverted Trope in Christa Winsloe's Gestern und Heute (Yesterday and Today), about a young teenaged girl's experiences at a strict single-sex Boarding School. The girl falls for a young female teacher, who loves her back but sticks to a chaste mentoring role. Things come unstuck because of the harsh, unfeeling way the school is run. The play, also called Ritter Nérestan (Knight Nérestan) and Krankheit der Liebe (Sickness of Love), was very popular. It is based on Winsloe's novel Das Kind Manuela (The Child Manuela), itself based on Winsloe's own experiences at boarding school. It was later filmed as Mädchen in Uniform (Girls in Uniform), with a screenplay written by Winsloe. I think a play based on a novel based on reality is distinct enough from reality to be tropable.
Now I'm going to go wash my brain.
Yes, any mentions of the RL people should go.
Also the small age gaps are just shoehorns (14 and 12 is not this trope) and should go.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Angry babby
I don't think we need to cut all mentions of real life people if it's just objectively providing context that adds Reality Subtext to the fictional example. Additionally, some of these claim to be fictionalized versions of real people, which feels like it's fair game.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I kinda think we do need to,
a) It's just pure natter, unrelated to the trope at all. At best it's Trivia, behind the scenes minutiae that may have contributed to the work, not an integral part of the narrative shorthand conveying a thought or concept (i.e. it would be the same if the author hadn't had such an affair)
b) It's gossipy and potentially ROCEJ (if we're talking about childhood affairs as several of the examples are). We consistently remove controversies and the like off of Creator pages (unless it's something that has truly derailed their career, in which case it's Trivia). I don't see why an end run around that restriction is allowed on mainspace.
c) The lewdness concerns of these entries are already high, tossing more fuel on that fire is not advisable.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Angry babby
It's not natter if it's providing context for the trope's inclusion. That's relevant to the trope and why it exists in media. It's not pleasant but it makes sense to mention it briefly, as long as it doesn't go into gross detail and it's something that has been recorded instead of a creepy rumor.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
It is natter, it is nothing but natter when appended to a narrative trope.
Let's say I wrote a story about an older man having a much younger protege and lover, and Oscar Wilde wrote a similar story. The fact that I have never had such a relationship in my life is irrelevant. The fact that Wilde has had many is also irrelevant. Because the trope Lover and Beloved is exactly the same in both.
True there would most likely be differences in quality, he was a much better writer than me, and had experience in the area while I do not. But that does not change the fact that the trope is exactly the same no matter who wrote it, or what their experiences were. Any difference in perceived quality is YMMV, and any difference in the author's experiences is Trivia.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Redmess
Maybe we could just replace them with one general note that biographies can contain this trope, but we don't want any biographical examples?
Optimism is a duty.
I think Lover and Beloved ought to avoid mentioning that some examples are based on the authors' Real Life experiences. I know that there is Reality Subtext but the problem is that in many instances you'd be insinuating that the authors are perverts or victims.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
the politics section of parody retcon is an obvious attempt at real life section.
Parody Retcon isn't NRLEP. The examples seem fine as far as I can see, but perhaps moving them to a RL folder would be prudent.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Seeking the Missing, Finding the Dead: The first example is general, so that's an easy cut. The other two sound valid, but are unsourced.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
The third example is for an inversion, and RL can't be played with, so that's a cut too.
The second one, while more specific, still seems too general. It doesn't stress the whole seeking the missing part of the trope at all, just says we're finding dead bodies now that we're in a drought.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose meI've cut all three and cited this thread.
Edited by FernandoLemon on Aug 13th 2022 at 5:46:33 AM
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Calling Tattooed Crook for NRLEP due to being a morality trope.
Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Aug 14th 2022 at 11:53:13 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
That's not how you call something for NRLEP. You have to bring it up for discussion first, then wait until at least one day after said discussion until adding it to a crowner. If the crowner entry has enough consensus for making it NRLEP after at least a week, then it can be called for NRLEP.
I see the merit in making Tattooed Crook NRLEP. It's a stereotype.
I brought up Democracy Is Flawed a few pages ago and it didn't get much discussion (and what I did get was in favor of crownering). My argument is that it's too controversial and the RL section has become a dumping ground for complaining about various structures of government the troper thinks aren't democratic enough. It's also very Americentric.
Edited by MissConduct on Aug 14th 2022 at 10:53:05 AM
the Retromancer
I'd vote on it.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Angry babby
I support both being NRLEP.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
I strongly agree for both
What are people's thoughts on PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny.Real Life? It's grown into it's own sub-page, there is quite a bit of misuse (somebody decided to list the United Kingdom in there for good measure), shoehorns (there's a whole section on political parties, which aren't in any way shape or form Republics) and general natter.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
They are neutral already, the problem is that there are dozens of real life troping in Literature folder despite NRLEP tag because it's technically a part of a book.
Edited by Amonimus on Aug 12th 2022 at 1:29:03 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup