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YMMV: Pokémon Black and White

  • Alternative Character Interpretation: Are Reshiram and Zekrom two separate entities that have come to despise each other because they are polar opposites never to meet, or do they long to turn back into the original dragon they were before and be together? The latter seems a fairly popular interpretation on Pixiv.
    • Was Team Plasma sans Ghetsis truly Stupid Good Well Intentioned Extremists who thought they were doing the right thing ŕ la N, or were some in on Ghetsis's true intentions and merely playing up the facade in order to gain brownie points from the guy when he finished his conquering? The Sages at the very least seem aware, since they slip up occasionally and refer to Ghetsis as their leader (followed by him correcting them that he's one of the Sages and supposedly no more powerful than the rest of them). Similarly, they hint that N's desire to fight the player is interfering with Ghetsis's plans. Then there's the fact that the Shadow Triad is loyal to Ghetsis even after he reveals the truth... The two grunts who kick the Munna early on hint that they were aware that Ghetsis was lying.
    • N is often subject to this, especially considering the fact that every time you fight him he has a new party of Pokémon, as well as the more vague aspects of his backstory.
      • Plus interpreting him as a tragic, sympathetic Woobie who's shipped with the player characters or a mouth-breathing Stalker with a Crush...who is shipped with the player characters.
    • Even gym leaders get this. Are Cilan, Chili, and Cress just innocent novice gym leaders or are they hiding something? Is Elesa really The Stoic or is she a poser due to being a Volkner fangirl? And while Skyla acts like a Nice Girl, the way she has you reach her in the gym implies she may actually be a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing or at the very least a cruel prankster.
    • As hinted below under Anvilicious, Ghetsis may be a Take That towards the more competitive "Stop Having Fun" Guys; he merely sees Pokémon as tools, and as for his poor treatment of N and other people in general, keep in mind that there ''are'' some people who prioritize their own virtual pet monsters over their friends and family in a similar way, though maybe not as much.
      • At most, the sequel shows him as being the living, breathing antithesis to the games' message - he's the guy who simply will not listen to or tolerate the ideals of others since he only thinks of himself, and he cannot be reasoned with, given his Redemption Rejection. Which could be Anvilicious or a case of Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped about how there are some people who are just intolerant assholes.
    • Victini's cry has lead many players (and YouTube commenters) to believe that he is laughing at them.
  • Americans Love Zekrom: While it's quite popular in Japan (but less so than Reshiram), it's easily the most popular of all Generation V Pokémon stateside, with a fanbase rivaling that of Mewtwo and Charizard. It's also responsible for White selling more English copies than Black. That's not to say Reshiram is unpopular per say, but there's definitely a larger fanbase for Zekrom.
  • Angel/Devil Shipping: N X Hilda, Ghetsis X Anyone (except someone like his own Hydreigon).
  • Anti-Climax Boss: Morimoto's team has levels on par with the League Champion, but it consists mostly of the evolutions of early-game Com Mons. It is possible to challenge him before your team is likely to be anywhere near as high-leveled as his own, but still ultimately for disappointing for what's the series' first Creator Cameo battle.
    • Also, the final battle with N. His legendary dragon can be easily defeated by your own due to Artificial Stupidity (it loves to use its signature move, which you're resistant to and can power up your own dragon's signature move as well), and most of his other Pokemon can be one-shotted with the proper type matchups. Then you face the real Final Boss, who isn't nearly as much of a pushover...
  • Anvilicious/Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: The message about trying to get along with people whose opinion differs from your own is dropped with all of the subtlety of a sledgehammer. However, considering this day and age, where people constantly hold grudges against others solely based on differing in views (i.e. political parties), it may be a pretty solid Aesop.
    • Some people really feel like since Karen didn't do a good enough job back in 2000, that N needed to be a lot more Anvillicious about the "Stop Having Fun" Guys who only see Pokémon as tools.
  • Applicability : The themes and dialogue of the games may show parallels to many real-life issues and debates, beyond (obviously) animal rights.
  • Awesome Moments: Many Pokémon which earlier weren't catchable in wild, now are. You don't have patience (or resources) to grind up that Dratini? Go fish in rippling water at Dragonspiral Tower, it's 1 in 100 for Dragonite, 9 in 100 for Dragonair, 3 in 10 for the rare variant of Basculin and 3 in 5 for Dratini. You plan to use the Fire Stone on something else than Vulpix? Don't worry about it, you can find Ninetales in Abundant Shrine's rustling grass. Yeah, most times it's Audino (which is EXP Cow anyway), but it's bound to appear eventually. This "tradition" carries over to the sequels.
  • Awesome Music: Opelucid City and Route 10, for starters. The Team Plasma battle theme generally rocks, too.
    • Cold Storage/Twist Mountain, the Surf theme, the Gym Leader theme (especially the Theme Music Powerup when they're down to their last Pokemon), and the Champion battle theme as well.
    • And then there's N's theme...especially during the Final Battle.
    • DENNIS and the Village Bridge theme, the first songs in the entire series to have actual singing.
    • Unlike in other entries in the series, the Elite Four battle music is quite different than the gym leader theme. It's actually dark and cerebral, which is a nice departure from most battle music, and fitting for the more intellectual Elite Four. Even better is the fact that it doesn't change inside the Pokémon Centre, meaning you can listen to it from beginning to end.
    • The ending song also counts as this, giving an impression of a Sequel Hook, which actually turned into a reality.
  • Base Breaker: Serperior and Samurott. They have popular designs, but are often mocked for their poor competitive potential, especially compared to their successors Chesnaught and Greninja in Pokémon X and Y. This is in contrast to Emboar, which is widely disliked both for its lack of competitive viability and its design, and its recycled type combination.
    • Aside from the starters, you have Vanillite and Trubbish, who have been the start of many flame wars. These evolutionary lines are the most commonly criticized Pokémon of the fifth generation, and are the go-to examples for people who believe Game Freak is running out of ideas. But you will find just as many people defending them, either because they genuinely like these Pokémon's designs, or they just think the hatred is taken too far.
  • Breather Boss: If you just bring a decent Electric-type to fight Skyla, you've won. Almost everything in the cave just prior to fighting her will sweep her whole team with no effort at all, with the possible exception of Boldore, because it's weak to Water. Doesn't help that her main Pokémon is doubly weak to Electric.
    • Brycen's gym is based around the Ice type, the flat-out worst defensive type in the series, bar none. If your Pokemon are near the 35 that the gym expects of you, a properly-equipped team will demolish it all, Victini or no.
      • His signature Pokemon also has an extremely low base defense of 30 which puts it at risk of being knocked out even by Tackle. There is no way anyone programming this could have thought this guy would be a challenge.
      • Burgh is in between two gyms that are fairly difficult, but is easily taken care of. Likewise, Iris or Drayden is really almost too easy at that point in the game, as your Pokemon will easily be the same level and they only use 3. Their premier Pokemon's main attack also forces it to move last, which ignores its own Dragon Dance boosts and exacerbates its unimpressive hit-taking ability.
  • Broken Base: Expected, but some examples follow:
    • There are serious debates over the designs of the PCs, whether the starters are awesome or not, and the animations of the sprites. Some people hate the idea of triple battles.
    • Likewise, the Unfortunate Implications of Lenora's appearance has created a rift between those that feel it's a stereotypical design and those that don't. Discussion on the matter has been (permanently) banned on the Bulbagarden forums.
    • Also, some don't like the fact that there are no Pokémon from the older generations in the Regional Dex, whereas some think that it is a refreshing idea.
    • There was a broken base the moment the first fifth generation Pokémon was revealed. Some were overjoyed to see new Pokémon at last, others grumbled that it should have ended back in the second generation and that Game Freak needs to end the franchise.
      • Mysteriously, now that there is a Generation V, what happened to the people who said this about Generation IV? They're nowhere to be found!
      • On the other hand, Generation VI draws far fewer complaints of this type than Gen V due to its heavy focus on classic Mons, so you're more likely to find fans still complaining about Gen V this way than Gen VI.
    • Even the names caused this — some were happy to see the return to color names and admired the more simplistic nature of them, others thought they were boring and running out of ideas. Some even used this as proof that the fifth generation would be the worst thing to happen to the franchise.
    • On the competitive side of things, there has been a backlash over the fact that when battling via Wi-Fi or console link, the opponent's entire team (and their nicknames) are all revealed, without an option to turn this feature off (in the manner of the Pokémon Stadium series). Some see it as a welcome addition to competitive tactics, and others believe that it will ruin the metagame forever. Also serves as a premature nerf to Zoroark, due to its unique ability becoming less effective.
    • Seasons. They're not real-time-based: Spring is in January, May, and September, summer is February, June, and October, fall is March, July, and November, and winter is in April, August, and December. You can go to places in some seasons that you can't reach in others. Some fans love the idea, but a lot of people aren't wild about seeing snow in August and the fact that you sometimes have to wait months to get certain places (well, you could tinker with the clock, ya know...)
      • Probably shouldn't tell those people that don't want to see snow in August about the southern hemisphere then...
      • There's also the whole, "...you're complaining about weather in a game where you can cause a sunny day in the middle of a building or call a rain/hail/sandstorm in the middle of a building?" aspect, too. If it was realistic, you'd have to tinker with the clock and set it all the way until December/whenever the game decides constitutes winter if you wanted to get an Ice type in the wild without having to go into Cold Storage.
    • The English names have created a divide in the fanbase too, especially since the region name got changed more dramatically than before.
    • Oshawott's family is Love It or Hate It, no point in between. Some people love the otter unconditionally, while there are people who think it has the stupidest character design and lamest evolutions ever.
    • Cheren is an example of a character that is popular and also absolutely loathed at the same time. Many feel it's annoying that he shows up after almost every gym battle to challenge you and is also present for a good half of the game, has a somewhat uninteresting subplot that's full of Wangst, and is touted as being a better trainer than Bianca and potential champion, even though he's terrible at battling.
    • Bianca is in a similar boat. Many people find her cute and her story of finally being able to go out on her journey by coming to terms with her father to be great characterization. Others think she's obnoxious, is present for far too much in the game, and should just go away and not bother you while you're trying to go about your own journey.
  • Casual-Competitive Conflict: It doesn't help that the fifth generation is often considered the Magnum Opus of competitive play with its large number of options. Additionally, with Dream World Abilities and the like that were impossible to find if you didn't know where to look, casual fans have called foul against the C-Gear and the lack of natural-growing berries. Gen VI attempted to reduce this conflict by making the usual competitive tricks (IV breeding and EV training) much easier for players. And by turning fan-favorite Mons such as Charizard into top-tier threats through Mega Evolution.
  • Demonic Spiders: The Patrat line. They learn Bide, Detect, Sand-Attack, Hypnosis, Confuse Ray, Super Fang, and Crunch - moves which either annoy your Pokémon or hurt a lot. And they're very common in the wild (especially Watchog). Worst of all, Team Plasma absolutely LOVE to use these things.
    • The first Watchog you'll be seeing is Lenora's, and it makes her battle a living hell for many players.
    • Swoobat is an example that's used by Trainers. If they're in the 25-35 range of levels, expect to fall victim to Attract, watch them boost their stats with Calm Mind, and proceed to flinch you time after time with Air Slash. Thankfully, it doesn't appear in the wild.
    • If you don't have a way of one-shotting them, preferably by a fighting move, Audino can be really hard and annoying to kill midgame, especially with weaker Pokemon. Attract spam, very good defensive stats, Refresh, STAB Doubleslap.
  • Die for Our Ship: Some N x Hilda shippers love to make Cheren and Hilbert Crazy Jealous Guys who may even go as far as to hurt N or Hilda. N x Hilbert fans sometimes cast Hilda as a Jerk Ass or too masculine for N or Hilbert. Hilbert x Hilda fans occasionally write N as a perverted creeper, outright excluding his sympathetic qualities.
  • Disappointing Last Level: One of the games' noted weaknesses is the lack of post game content, combined with the Forced Level Grinding to stand up to wild Pokemon let alone the trainers and going for the title of Champion at the Pokemon League.
  • Dork Age: While Black and White are very good games, many fans consider its Pokédex and selection of available Pokémon to be this, due to the large number of Replacement Scrappies and generally weak mons, as well as the postgame selection of National Dex Pokémon leaving out many fan-favorites and classic species (even Series Mascot Pikachu).
  • Draco in Leather Pants: While N is certainly sympathetic and a well-written Anti-Villain who was a pawn of Ghetsis' plans, many fans treat him as if he's completely innocent, forgetting that he's a complete man-child who tries to make you his friend regardless of whether or not you consent, he kicked Alder while he was down by bringing up his late friend and called him weak for being compassionate, and despite his best intentions, the nature of his plan was very diabolical. The way his Heel-Face Turn was handled at the end made it look like he was being left off the hook too easily despite all the damage he had caused, which just makes it a little too hard for some people to swallow.
  • Ear Worm: Dream World players who go daily online to do activities there will, I repeat, WILL remember the damned happy-go-lucky themes. They're screwed if they don't mute the music in time.
  • 8.8: A strange variation- many fans complained over Famitsu giving it a perfect score, claiming that they've gone soft over the years and just are biased to the franchise. These complaints cropped up before the games were released anywhere.
    • And then Gamespot gives it a 7.5 while most other publications give it 8.0 plus. Cue the angry mob.
  • Ensemble Darkhorse: Quite a few.
    • Charles "The Heartbreaker".
    • Ghetsis, for being the most twisted, vile, hateful, cunning and downright evil villain in the series, according to some.
    • The Striaton triplets, Elesa, Skyla, Grimsley, and the Battle Subway masters all have fairly strong followings as well.
    • While Hilda is one of the player character options and doesn't qualify as this within the game itself, she is this among the player characters as a whole. Many male fans (and some females) appreciate her being the first teenage female protagonist in the series, complete with an outfit that's simultaneously cute, sexy and Badass - even well into Gen VI, after the hype for her generation has died down and the criticism has become more prominent.
    • As far as the Pokémon go, many of them became instant fan favorites - too many to list here - due to the sheer variety that went into creating a Kanto-ish regional Dex filled with completely new Mons.
      • Special shoutout to Stunfisk, who was so huge in Japan, Stunfisk merch would sell out almost instantly after release.
  • Evil Is Cool:
    • Despite Ghetsis being an irredeemable wreck of a human being, he is also a major Love to Hate character. His badass Pokémon team and battle theme also help.
    • This also applies to Hydreigon as a species.
    • N (kinda). Zekrom, too, but in appearance only. For this reason, the Evil Is Cool crowd tends to associate Zekrom with N and the more angelic Reshiram with Hilbert/Hilda.
  • Evil Is Sexy: Believe it or not, Ghetsis. Sure he's utterly twisted and evil- but still good-looking. If it wasn't for those ridiculous clothes, he'd be second to Johan Liebert as the sexiest contender for "most evil person in history." He's already won awards for most handsome abusive father.
    • While Ghetsis' appearance does turn off some, his adoptive son N is considered very attractive.
  • Fanon: Many Japanese fan artists interpret Hilbert and Hilda as siblings, sometimes even twins. In-game the character you don't choose treats the one you do like a new friend, but that hasn't stopped fans.
    • Many fans tend to exaggerate just how evil Ghetsis can be; yes, he's certifiably insane and did abuse and manipulate his adopted son for purely selfish reasons, but no, he's never been seen feeding anyone to his Hydreigon with sadistic glee or the like. See Memetic Psychopath below.
  • Fan-Preferred Couple: The main character (both the girl and the boy) x N is already quite popular, as is shipping the player characters together, especially compared to past main character couples. This may be due to the characters being older this time around, as well as both playable characters being pretty warmly received by the fandom for the first time in a while.
    • Hilda and N is especially popular. She's a strong, mature Tomboy according to Fanon, he's a kindhearted, honorable man who's been through unimaginable hell... Honestly, you could make an over/under bet based on how many Shipping Fics based around the "forbidden love" in a month appear on Fanfiction.net based on that description alone.
    • Elesa/Skyla came out of nowhere to completely explode with fanart.
      • This is acknowleged in the sequel with a memory link scene.
    • Cheren/Bianca is a common Beta Couple to Hilbert/Hilda, N/Hilda, and N/Hilbert in Fanon.
    • Lenora/Burgh is starting to gain its place in fan art.
      • And then there are fans who see them as a One True Friendship, since a lot of fans view Burgh as being Ambiguously Gay, and Lenora's Happily Married. note 
    • A variation: Subway Masters Ingo and Emmet are often paired with Litwick/Chandelure and Joltik/Galvantula, respectively, in fanart.
    • Fairly minor, but among the starter Pokémon, the pairing between the Oshawott and Snivy lines seems to be popular.
  • Fashion-Victim Villain: Ghetsis. A collar made to look like the top of a castle tower? Seriously?
    • His robes were probably meant to keep with the yin-yang theme of the game, but he ends up looking like Wind Waker's Ganondorf walked through a paintball fight. The chunky red monocle, triangular hair fringes, and his hilariously skinny ankles on display just put the last nails in the design coffin. If not for his big-time Knight of Cerebus nature, nobody would've taken him seriously.
  • Freud Was Right: Upon seeing Oshawott for the first time, some people mistook the seashell on its chest for a penis marking. (Long straight shape in the middle, rounded shapes on the sides.) Also, Reshiram sure chose a nice place to grow a wang - WING! I meant wing!
    • Beartic has a suspicious-looking patch of fur on its crotch area as well, though to be honest, a lot of Pokémon had that same or similar patch of fur on their crotch-area. Blaziken included.
    • Krookodile's big long nose. I swear, if I hear it one more time...note 
  • Foe Yay: As mentioned with Hilbert under Ho Yay, when Hilda is the main character, she goes on the Nimbasa City ferris wheel with decoy Big Bad N. Then there's his speech about Hilda continuing his dreams at the end.
  • Genius Bonus:
    • When you consider his obsession with formulas and equations, N is likely named for the fact that n is a commonly-used variable in mathematics.
    • Scolipede and its Japanese name Pendoraa are derived from Scolopendra, the scientific genus for giant tropical centipedes.
    • Gigalith is known as the "Compressed" Pokemon. If you know your geology, you'll know that it is based off Metamorphic rock, rocks that have been compressed under extreme heat and pressure and are usually found along with crystals (explaining the crystals on it).
  • Goddamned Bats: Bide, Hypnosis, Confuse Ray, Super Fang, Mean Look... Patrat and Watchog could single-handedly kill a Nuzlocke run.
    • The Durant that appear so frequently on Victory Road, either. If you don't have a Fire-type to exploit their one weakness For Massive Damage, their high attack/defense powers and speed will cause you some serious trouble.
      • Not just fire type, any special attack can simply defeat Durant.
    • Tympole, at the entrance to Pinwheel Forest. They can be a real pain to fight, what with their high speed, ability to hit hard with Bubblebeam, and Supersonic.
    • Boldore and Roggenrola. They appear as frequently as the Gravelers and Geodudes you're used to seeing in every single cave, but they're even worse because of the new mechanics for the Sturdy ability, which prevent you from killing them in one hit. Effectively, every Boldore and Roggenrola you meet is holding a Focus Sash, forcing you to waste more time and PP dealing a second hit, and giving them a turn to fight back and hurt you.
  • God Never Said That: Rather egregious, if this article is any indication. Cue them linking back to the Fan Dumb page.
    • Pokemon Sunday reported that "No old characters like Oak will appear", which mutated and really got confusing when some Gen IV characters showed up in the games.
  • Hilarious in Hindsight: In Pokémon Red and Blue, a female trainer in Rock Tunnel wished she could have a pink Pokémon with a floral pattern. Now, in Gen V, she's finally gotten her wish in the form of Munna! With the number of abandoned and eventually reused Pokémon designs, it could have been an injoke.
    • A scientist in Devon Corp. back in Ruby and Sapphire stated "I'm trying to develop a device that visually reproduces the dreams of POKÉMON... but it's not going well." Munna's evolution, Musharna, can release "Dream Smoke", a materialization of the dreams it has eaten. With it, Fennel created a device that lets you "sync" your Pokémon with the official website and do minigames and such with it, and catch special Pokémon.
    • The ending a villain is the final boss instead of a proper champion. Robopon did that years earlier, in the first game in its series.
    • In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, the Pokémon trainer's final smash was Triple Finish. The generation after Brawl introduced Triple Battles. Combination attacks were added, too, but only between two Pokémon at a time, and the results are supporting field effects rather than flashy Limit Breaks.
    • People often claimed that Team Plasma is the Pokemon PETA. A while later...
    • Shoko Nakagawa, an actress who has played many side roles in the movies and is one of the hosts of Pokemon Sunday/Get TV, is also the artist behind Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann's opening theme. Come three years after TTGL ended and a while before Reshiram and Zekrom's typings were officially revealed, she accidentally blurted out her desire to catch Zekrom because she loves Electric-types. Keep in mind that Zekrom's tail engine highly resembles a drill.
  • Ho Yay: Both the male and female player characters get one Gay Option for the Ferris Wheel Feeling Check. Hilda gets a Waitress. Hilbert gets a Hiker. I mean, come on.
    • N also takes the character on the Ferris wheel... Even when you're Hilbert.
    • Fennel and Juniper don't even share a lab while at work (Fennel's work is primarily done in Striaton City), but this hardly stops the fans from interpreting the two this way. To be fair, though, when Fennel was first revealed, all that was known was that she was "Professor Juniper's Assistant," and once that allowed for certain implications, the idea of Juniper/Fennel took off.
    • Lots of fans likes to pair Elesa with Skyla in a rather suggestive manner, despite the two girls not even sharing a word with each other in the game (except for the fanservice part.)
    • There's also Cynthia hanging out with every important female Pokemon League official at her villa, and Iris being Bianca's "bodyguard".
      • In turn, Bianca being Professor Juniper's "bodyguard".
    • One of the female swimmers in Undella Bay asks if you've come to see Cynthia wearing a bathing suit. Yes, if you're playing as Hilda.
    • After beating Cynthia, she'll talk for several text boxes, finishing by saying that travelling has improved her life because, "[she] met you and [her] world became wider."
    • In the battle subway, one trainer you can fight (Lady Won), says you look gorgeous at the beginning of the battle. If you defeat her, she says that she "feels drawn to you". The same interactions happen if you play as Hilda.
  • Hype Backlash: Even before the game was released in English, some fans were already complaining about the hype. The perfect 40 score in Famitsu didn't help matters.
  • Internet Backdraft: Long before the game was released, debate raged over whether Unova was based on Manhattan, Shanghai, Hong Kong, perhaps Aomori, or somewhere else. Also, discussion on the Unfortunate Implications of Lenora's appearance, as well as the starters' final evolutions.
    • Some blogs continued to point out that it might have been China, such as saying that Braviary was probably based off of chinese kites and that Iris was a stereotypical chinese. When this was Jossed, it was removed - said blog(s) had a policy of "Don't go with popular theories until Word of God confirms them".
    • The English names. Bring them up- especially the human names- and brace yourself for cries of it being ruined and how the translation team is more incompetent than a room full of monkeys.
      • Oh my god! They changed the Japanese puns to ENGLISH Puns!
  • Incest Yay Shipping: Oddly enough, shipping the Striaton brothers seems to be rather popular, even though there's no real Incest Subtext in the games between them.
    • They're brothers, they're cute, and they're a Power Trio. You do the math.
    • The Subway Bosses are commonly paired together as well.
    • Ghetsis and N. It's a lot more common than you think. It also depends on wether you believe they're related or not.
  • It's Easy, so It Sucks: Some people are claiming this. Apparently people missed when Masuda stated multiple times in interviews how all the games in the franchise start out easy in general so everyone can enjoy them, with more difficult side challenges like the Battle Subway and the option to battle against real people for more advanced players... or how the original games could easily be curbstomped through with a decent Psychic type, with the next generation only requiring Feraligatr and how you could easily glitch your way to victory.
  • It's Hard, so It Sucks: On the other hand, some difficulty factors can make the main game unbearably difficult. Particularly, the rigged experience point scaling makes matching levels with the gym leaders unfeasible in some circumstances. note  This would not be bad, but add two things, and it becomes complicated: a) There are only 130-40 Pokemon available before the Elite Four in this particular series, and that they tend to have shallow movepools; and b) Said selections of Pokémon in this generation tend to be either really frail, or really slow. For people who returned to Pokémon via XY, and started playing BW out of curiosity, an additional complication was the announcement of the DS Wi-Fi shutdown in March 2014, forcing some people to finish the game/Pokedex within 2-3 months before the shutdown in May in the same year, further adding the stress.
  • It's the Same, Now It Sucks: The Fire-type starter's evolutions were revealed to be Fire/Fighting types. Just like the last two generations. Some fans got pissed, due to perceived laziness on the part of Game Freak. There are plenty of people complaining about the other starters being respectively pure Grass- and Water-type as well, but it's generally not seen as bad as giving the Fire starter the same secondary type three times in a row.
    • Klink's evolution line can also apply to this, due to each evolution stage essentially consists of adding an extra gear part onto Klink.
  • Just Here for Godzilla: Some fans couldn't care less about the improved plotline. Some even hate its existence and the fact that it plays with Pokémon's usual formula a bit, as well as the fact that they have to get through it to get to postgame goodies like older Pokémon.
    • Play the Game, Skip the Story: The plot is more prominent in these games than in others, but that doesn't stop some fans from viewing it as such and only getting in the way of the gameplay.
  • Launcher of a Thousand Ships: Surprisingly, it's more so the male protagonist being shipped with a lot of Pokémon characters, mostly being ship off with N, Hilda, Bianca, Cheren, Professor Juniper, Skyla, Caitlin ... Also Snivy and Reuniclus (NO, SERIOUSLY!).
  • Love to Hate: Ghetsis, big-time. So much so that, back when the games came out in Japan, tropers on this very wiki were quick to label him as a Complete Monster. This helped drive much of the hype for his character due to the trope's implications in contrast to the family-friendly nature of the Pokémon franchise itself, with various websites and blogs picking up on his (former) status as one.note 
  • Magnificent Bastard: Ghetsis Harmonia. As bad as he is, he still has fans (though not in that way) for his Dangerously Genre Savvy Chess Master nature.
  • Magnum Opus: Masuda believes that this game is "the masterpiece" out of all the games he's made.
    • So Cool It's Awesome: These games are hailed by a large number of critics and fans as among the series' best; to many of them, these, along with the Gen II remakes, marked the point where Game Freak actually started trying to be innovative again.
    • Critical Dissonance: While these games have gotten excellent reviews, they also tend to be the most controversial pair of games among the fanbase. Quite a few less vocal fans of the earlier gens also don't like the reboot-ish feel of the games, and the unfamiliarity caused by the lack of old Pokémon until the postgame.
  • Memetic Badass: Hilda and Snivy/"Smugleaf".
    • Hilbert had some elements.
    • Oshawott's evolutions, especially Samurott, are this.
    • Genesect. Thanks to its possible name origin (genocide + insect), as well as its classification as the Paleozoic Pokémon, it's been theorized that it caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. And it snowballed from there.
    • Braviary, A TRUE AMERICAN EAGLE.
    • Zekrom. Fans often consider it to be the singular most Badass entity in all of Unova.
    • Terrakion also gets this treatment, for its design, its stats and its curbstomping tendencies in both the games and TCG. Smogon even labeled it the manliest Pokémon in Black and White.
    • Victini. If you have him in your team, you automatically win every battle (supposedly).
  • Memetic Loser: Emboar.
  • Memetic Mutation: EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Zoroark, the female Player Character, the starters, and Castelia City all became memes within days.
  • Memetic Molester: N, Grimsley.
    • Ghetsis will probably end up like this. It's understandable.
  • Memetic Psychopath: Ghetsis often gets this treatment from the fandom due to his Knight of Cerebus nature. It's common to depict him in fanfictions as outright murderous - which is somewhat in-character, but has never been depicted on-screen unless you count his fairly ambiguous freezing alive-or-to death of Nate/Rosa.
    • He did say he'd have to "eliminate" Hilbert/Hilda in order to keep word of N's defeat from getting out. Sounds like murderous intent there.
  • Memetic Sex God:
    • The protagonists. Hilbert's general fanon characterization is of a charming gentleman no girl could resist. Hilda is considered this in a non-ironic sense (most likely due to her being the first teenage female player character in the series).
    • Gothitelle (being a partial Expy of the infamous Gardevoir).
    • Snivy also got this a lot during the peak of the "Smugleaf" meme.
    • The rivals and N also apply, with Cheren and N being somewhere between this and Memetic Molester.
    • The title still stands for Cynthia. Her Memetic Molester status has also increased, due to a reference to the previous protagonist, and her own reappearance.
    • Skyla and Elesa has already succeeded (but not upstaging) Cynthia in this department. Their fan-work magnet designs might be intentional too.
    • Grimsley is gaining a reputation as this amongst certain fan circles.
  • Misblamed: No, sorry, Ken Sugimori didn't design every single Pokémon - Some, like Vanilluxe's line, Golurk's line, and the pre-evolution of Mandibuzz (the vulture type) were actually designed by NoA employee James Turner.
    • Misreported: Early reportings actually had Bianca as the champion the first time you beat the Elite Four, and that Alder would replace her on subsequent fights. Turns out that the truth was far, far different.
      • The traditional "This series sucks, why do people still like this?" threads are up. Pokémon has been around since the 1990s - we knew what happened in the games since before they were released outside of Japan thanks to the internet. And yet people still are pointing fingers at Nintendo, one of the publishers, for stuff that is clearly out of their hands. Poor Game Freak - they saved the Game Boy and still have received no credit outside of Japan.
  • Moe: Bianca can be viewed as this.
    • Hilda also comes off as this to some whenever she's not The Lad-ette. Or both.
    • Fennel comes off this way.
    • N has been described as this a couple times.
    • Also, the Striaton Trio, possibly.
  • Monde Green: "DEEEEEEEEH-NISSSS..."
  • Moral Event Horizon: Ghetsis' phony claims and selfish desires are bad enough, but then there's his treatment of N...
    • Technically, all of his actions in the game are kicking the dog. Considering the only reason N exists in the first place was to achieve his selfish desires, he's crossed the Moral Event Horizon long ago before the game even started.
      • Long before Red and Blue even started, considering N's age (he looks to be at the very least 15), and the amount of time between those games and Black and White is a mere 7 or 8 years. And who knows how long Team Plasma was alive before N was crowned.
  • Most Wonderful Sound: The sound of rustling grass. Audino exp bashing time, here we go!
    • WOOSH! ding! click. Critical capture.
    • Victini probably has the most adorable cry in the game.
  • Narm: Come on, you HAVE to admit that the battle theme used for BOTH Bianca and Cheren sounds WAAAAY too peppy and joyful to even remotely suit Cheren. Black 2 and White 2 didn't bother to fix this either.
    • N's full name.
    • Ghestis's costume.
    • Anytime the Plasma grunts try to be intimidating they shout their team's name (PLASMAAAAAAAAAAAA!) but the way it played out make them look as goofy as the Galactic grunts instead.
  • Never Live It Down:
    • These games and their sequels are infamous for introducing the garbage, gear and ice cream Pokemon, despite other generations are also guilty of this.
    • Emboar's status as the third Fire/Fighting starter in a row. To a lesser extent, all three starters collectively forming the least powerful set of starters across all five (now six) generations, even beating Johto's. In Smogon's metagame, all three of them were in the NU tier to begin with, with Emboar only rising to a higher tier due to a player abusing a loophole in their tiering system.
    • Series Mascot Pikachu's reputation as an annoying Spotlight-Stealing Squad with Wolverine Publicity got a lot worse during Gen V, possibly more than any other generation. Pikachu only had a cameo in Black and White, and it wasn't obtainable normally in the games, let alone in the regional Dex. However, the franchise outside of the games didn't reduce Pikachu's prominence one bit, making its appearances alongside all the new Unova Pokémon more jarring and asserting the anime's Adaptation Displacement over the games . Pokémon X and Y fixed this from both ends, both by making Pikachu an early-game mon and by slightly downplaying its marketing outside of the anime.
  • Nightmare Fuel: Has its own page. A lot of it tends to overlap with Fridge Horror too, particularly owing to Ghetsis.
  • Nightmare Retardant: Mishearing the Ominous Chanting in Ghetsis's battle theme turns perhaps the Biggest Bad in the series to date into "DEEEEEENNIS".
  • No Yay: Ghetsis and most of the other characters. Except perhaps his own Hydreigon. (Yes, it exists)...
  • Paranoia Fuel: The main plot becomes this when you consider how it would look from N's perspective.
    • N informing you that the Shadow Triad has been spying on you and your friends when you meet him in Chargestone Cave can be pretty paranoia-inducing as well.
  • Purity Sue: According to Word of God, this is what N believes himself to be due to his upbringing: he believes that he is the "perfect" savior of Pokemon. A great part of his Character Development is him learning that being pure doesn't equate to being "perfect".
  • Replacement Scrappy: Many people saw Iris as this, seeing as she would star in the anime instead of the playable female from the games. Rescued from the Scrappy Heap might take effect, however, as she has been confirmed to be the White version's final Gym Leader, training Dragon-Types. And again, as the Black and White season of the anime began to draw tons of fan criticism, thus making many fans indifferent to whether Hilda would have appeared or not (some were even glad that she didn't appear).
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: The ability Sturdy was changed from "immune to Fissure, Sheer Cold, etc." (mostly useless) to "can't be KO'd at 100% health"/"built-in Focus Sash" (which is incredible) AND "immune to Fissure, Sheer Cold, etc"; what's even better is that there are very few counters for it unless your opponent has Mold Breaker.
    • Bug type. In previous generations "new Bug type pokemon" usually meant "A bunch of earlygame bugs, usually early evolving as well, whose stats just plain suck. Also, half of them is Bug/Flying, a typing with some very unfortunate weaknesses (rocks, fire, ice, and electricity being standouts), another half is Bug/Poison" The only ones that are at least playable were Scyther/Scizor, Nincada family, Heracross and Pineco/Forretress. Prior to generation IV, the fact that Bug just sucks was also supported by having no attacks. What did Black and White do? They introduced eighteen bugs. All of them with great stats. Not a single one evolves early. Around half of them have new typings. Three of them are Bug/Steel (only one weakness). Scolipede is able to learn freaking Earthquake and Rock Slide. Galvantula gets a STAB Thunder with much better accuracy thanks to Compoundeyes. Durant has crazy-awesome attack power with its Hustle ability, albeit with a little less accuracy, and it gets even better with Hone Claws, which boosts Attack and Accuracy. And it, too, can learn Rock Slide. Volcarona has the awesome Quiver Dance and a solid Base 80 signature move which has a pretty good chance of boosting its Special Attack. Volcarona is really close to being a legendary, seeing as there's one in the whole game sitting in a tower at level 70, like all legendaries do. And that's a shame, because the title of the first legendary Bug-type in the series goes to Genesect, also introduced in this generation. "Bug trainer" is no longer a stigma.
      • As an extra example: the Champion of the Pokemon League has three Bug-type Pokemon. The most powerful trainer in the land has Bug-types as half his team.
    • And that doesn't count some of the previous generation bugs - Butterfree, Beautifly, Masquerian, Venomoth and Dustox all got the amazing Quiver Dance, which boosts Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed. Masquerian and Venomoth also have Baton Pass to deliver potentially game-breaking Quiver Dance bonuses to their allies.
    • Venusaur was overshadowed by Charizard and Blastoise for having a "less cool design." Generation V gave it a massive buff in the form of Chlorophyll, and thanks to that, Venusaur emerged as the strongest of the original three starters (and one of the strongest starters period) in the competitive scene. This won the Bulbasaur line some long deserved love... until the next generation, where Venusaur's sun-sweeping potential was Nerfed, but all three starters gained useful and powerful Mega Evolutions, putting them on a roughly equal playing field and rescuing them all from the Tier-Induced Scrappy Heap.
  • The Scrappy: Despite the praise that these games got, they are notable for introducing a large amount of Pokémon whose designs were either dismissed or disliked by the fanbase.
    • Oshawott's design has made it the subject of regular bashing since day one, but it became The Woobie almost immediately in backlash. First Broken Base around the game!
    • Zorua and Zoroark have come under increasing fire as well, due in no small part to the fact that both of them are event-only Pokémon.
      • They are event-only by proxy, at least — you must have a Celebi (itself an event-only Pokémon as well) in your party to get your Zorua in the game.
      • Though this has lessened somewhat thanks to Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 not only making it not-event-only, but also giving you one for free half way through the game.
    • Basculin for being the ONLY thing you can find on rippling water since fishing rods are off-limits till post-game. They are not that good either in battles.
    • Pansage already wasn't popular because it was yet another monkey-based Pokémon, but since Panpour and Pansear made an underground monkey of him, Panpour and Pansear, the results aren't pretty. While their evolutions are very different from each other, many people went on to deposit their monkey after the first gym, as they found their evolutions weak, still leading to this trope.
    • The evolved forms of Tepig are yet another Fire/Fighting starter. Emboar remains one of the most disliked starters in the series, even well into Gen VI.
      • Awkward Zombie had a field day with that.
      • In fact, some believe that Emboar is single-handedly (yet indirectly) reponsible for all the Generation V hate among the fandom, both for being Charizard's replacement this gen and for its unoriginal typing and poor competitive value, which caused the entire set of Unova starters to look lackluster to older fans, which in turn caused the entire set of Unova Pokémon to look lame (since the starters are among the most important Pokémon for any gen's image and reputation).
    • The Kami trio have gotten some SERIOUS hate for how similar their sprites are. Their bodies and postures are exactly the same, with the only differences being color, tail and mustache.
      • Another example of getting redeemed by Black 2 & White 2 - their new forms have been pretty well-received. Their original forms still get some flak, however.
    • If people are talking about Gen V Pokémon they hate, Trubbish, Garbodor, and the Vanillite family are likely to come up.
      • Funnily enough, at least a few people have been convinced otherwise of Garbodor once it appeared in the anime, under Poison-type Gym Leader Roxie, thanks to the anime giving it the ability to stretch its arms like whips. For the rest, at least their opinion isn't any worse than it was before.
      • And there are others who thought Garbodor and Trubbish are Ridiculously Ugly Cute Critters from day 1.
    • Since the Global Link was opened, people have been getting mad at Fennel if they can't access the Dream World, thanks to her taunting expression.
    • Audino, due to being so common in the shaking grass patches where there are possibilities of much rarer Pokemon. They tend to make up for it by being Metal Slimes, but it can be pretty aggravating when you just want to catch a damn Emolga. Though the sequels does have a variety in those grasses, including more than just the standard Audino, Emolga and the elemental monkeys.
  • Scrappy Mechanic: Many decisions Game Freak made for this generation are questionable.
    • The XP gain is proportional to the level difference between mons so a low level beating on a higher one will gain more XP but this also means a higher level beating on a lower level will gain less making leveling your mons once you've outleveled everything else difficult.
    • Hey, remember how auto-leveling worked in player vs player battles before Gen V (At least in Gens III and IV)? Being able to have a team of 6 automatically be raised to level 100 or raised/lowered to level 50 was very convenient. In Gen V, the only leveling option you have is the Flat Battle ruleset, which has many of the same restrictions as a battle facility: All Pokemon are dropped to level 50, no more than one of the same Pokemon nor item, and only 3 ans 4 Pokemon can be used in single and double battles, respectively. The only other option available allows you to turn the Wonder Launcher on/off. Also, unlike battle facilities, Pokemon beneath level 50 do not have their levels raised. Combined with the afforementioned mechanic, this means a lot of grinding if you want have a 6 on 6 battle with no restrictions where everything is at an equal level.
    • Most berries can only be obtained via NPCs that hand them out or in Dream World. It's impossible to grow berries in the actual game anymore.
    • The highly-useful menu interface on the touch screen in HeartGold and SoulSilver was replaced by the C-Gear, which, while excellent for multiplayer, was utterly useless in single-player and for people with no friends nearby who had the game. While the C-Gear was active, it continuously used the DS's wireless functions, draining the battery, and it was active by default. Whenever you booted up the game, it prompted you to turn on the C-Gear, and you had to confirm a second time if you wanted to keep it deactivated.
    • Many good Unova Pokemon evolve very late in the games when there is no legit reason for, which doesn't help their rather weak base forms. Coupled with the new EXP gain system, raising Pokemon in these games is chore at best and hellish at worst.
    • While generally not a major problem, Fishing Rods are not available for the player until the post-game. This is made worse that unlike the Gen IV games not even the Good Rod is in these games and Water-types in Unova are very limited just like how Fire and Electric types are scarce in both Hoenn and Sinnoh. To put simply, fans of aquatic Pokemon are not pleased at this decision.
  • Seinfeld Is Unfunny: After the release of Gen VI, these games saw a drop in popularity, largely due to the "new Pokémon only" Pokédex not being new and feeling fresh anymore, and none of the Pokémon becoming classic fan-favorites like Lucario did (yet). The story is still widely regarded as the best in the series, but often looked over. Even Zekrom, arguably the most popular Pokémon in Gen V, was overshadowed by Mega Charizard X in Gen VI, which is a similar black-and-blue dragon but tends to be way more popular due to the Nostalgia Filternote  It doesn't help that most Unova Pokémon (especially the likes of Hydreigon and Scraggy) are affected in the worst way possible by the updated type chart and game mechanics of Gen VI, further generating an unnecessary hate in the process.
  • Ship-to-Ship Combat: The shipping community for the games is usually (mostly) civil compared to the anime, but for some reason, these particular games have caused some very nasty flame wars and Fan Hating on opposing ships. The most notorious of these is the N x Hilda vs. N x Hilbert vs. Hilbert x Hilda war, with Die for Our Ship in full effect for the member of the triangle excluded from one's OTP.
  • Stop Helping Me!: Fennel was rather unpopular once the Dream World website launched in North America given how many a user saw her very image saying nicely that they needed to wait a little more until they could enter the site.
  • Strawman Has a Point: Team Plasma may be hypocritical (and in some cases, dishonest) about their desire to free Pokemon from humans, but the fact remains that Pokemon battles would be a serious case of animal cruelty in a more realistic setting. Furthermore, most sympathetic characters say that Team Plasma is wrong, but never provide a strong counterargument beyond "Pokemon and humans are meant to be friends".
  • That One Sidequest: The Pokemon seek game in the Dream World - Where as the other 5 games that you play to befriend Pokemon (at least the ones available to the states) allow some form of strategy, Pokemon Seek is a Luck-Based Mission.
    • The game is actually rather easy if you know what you're doing. Just race through the maze until you find the missing item, the pokemon you're looking for will be 1-2 spaces near it.
  • They Changed It, Now It Sucks:
    • The Wifi/Competitive play mechanics. There are significant changes to Player vs Player gameplay, including the inability to do IV battles, and the now dominant type being 3v3 instead of 6v6, alongside the ability to preview your opponent's team. The competitive battle circles are having a fit about this, as it throws a wrench into the min-maxing dynamic created over the past 4 generations. Interestingly, a good number of these changes appear to be done specifically to break up the existing Metagame.
    • Competitive players (like Smogon) were not pleased with Rotom-A losing its Ghost typing (as it can no longer prevent Rapid Spin from working.)
    • The protagonists' English names, "Hilbert" and Hilda", were among the few name changes that were universally poorly-received with the fandom.
  • They Just Didn't Care: Emboar's typing. Again.
  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: N's navelgazing about the relationship between Pokémon and humans would provoke a good deal of analysis about the sentience and free will of Pokémon, as well as how it could possibly be symbiotic when humans depend on Pokémon for everything from construction work to conflict resolution. Shame that the franchise is built up on cutesy animals blindly following your every command to win. Even more of a shame that N is in the wrong due to being specifically raised to believe that philosophy.
  • Tough Act to Follow: Although there's still a vocal section of the Fan Dumb who hates Black and White, the reception among the rest of the fandom has made this arguably the most fan-adored versions since Generation II. In particular, the protagonists, version mascots and N are incredibly popular, and most of the new Pokemon are well-designed and have decent to great stats, abilities and movepools. And follow it they did, twice. While the direct sequels have been argued to suffer from this very trope, the Generation VI games are more well-liked - fans tend to prefer the gameplay and generation-spanning, nostalgia-pandering Pokédex of Gen VI, even if its characters and story haven't garnered as much attention as the Black and White characters when they were first introduced.
    • The story's about as strong as a story in a Pokémon game's ever been, plus everything's been streamlined from battles to the tutorial - even the EXP system's got an overhaul. From a production perspective, they've gone the extra mile to iron out every moment that's not quite 100%. It's a proper rebirth - the first since, yes, Generation II.
  • Ugly Cute: Trubbish is probably the most adorable garbage bag you will ever see.
  • Unfortunate Implications: Some fans think the character Lenora looks uncomfortably like the "mammy" stereotype.
    • In the Japanese version, her description in the badge case is, in English, 'Natural Born Mama.' Huh.note 
    • The cutscene at the very beginning of the game shows Ghetsis crowning N, and he appears to be half-black, half-white.
    • There was a bit of an uproar over the cotton Pokémon being exclusive to the Black version.
    • Lilligant being based on a Southern Belle and exclusive to the White version didn't help.
  • Viewer Gender Confusion: Several fans pointed to early screenshots of the male trainer and, based on his sprites, speculated about there being two female player characters to choose from, while wondering when a male trainer would show up. (To give the viewers credit, these were low-quality screenshots from a magazine scan.)
    • Cheren looks enough like a short-haired girl to be mistaken for a bifauxnen before the games' release. Doesn't help that the shirt under his coat looks exactly like Whitney's.
    • N as well. Really not helped at all by the, ah... familiarity of his official art pose.
    • There's also Burgh, the Camp gym leader of Castelia City.
    • N introduces the Shadow Triad as men, but that hasn't stopped the fans from questioning their gender, especially since it is only addressed once. In Pokémon Special, they look like masked versions of Mello. Not helping. At all. Fixed in the sequels, where they have more masculine sprites and one of them speaks with an identifiably male voice in the animated trailer.
  • The Woobie: According to its Pokédex entries, Yamask's gold mask is its face from its time as a human thousands of years ago before turning into a mummy, and it still has memories from those times. It occasionally stares at the mask, sobbing.
    • Believe it or not, Kyurem. Since it's frozen, everyone is afraid of it, and it can't even use its powers to their full potential, Kyurem fans decide that it needs a hug. (No one can prove that it really ate people...)
      • Kinda confirmed in the sequels. The legend about Kyurem eating people is said to be untrue, and Kyurem is indeed made to suffer hard at Team Plasma's hands.
    • Bianca. As if having self-esteem issues, an Overprotective Dad (at first), and getting the short end of the stick starter-wise wasn't bad enough, she enters her third battle with you feeling confident and sure that she'll do well, only to lose all heart (she even says she won't ever be as good as you or Cheren) when you end up defeating her. Yeah, that's right - the game makes you Break the Cutie in order to continue. I'd say that's worth a cuddle.
      • And if it's still not enough, she got her Munna stolen. She got it back, but still...
    • N - his father could give Cipher a run for its money in sheer callousness. That's grounds for a hug right there. And Concordia's words just make it even sadder: "N's heart is pure and innocent. But there is nothing more beautiful and terrifying than innocence." He's also a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.
    • Jerkass Woobie: Gothorita/Gothitelle. According to the pokedex entries it kidnaps children, but only out of loneliness, and when it finally gets a friend, a trainer, it can predict his/her death and cries out of sadness.
  • What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Sigilyph is based off of Nazca Lines's Condor, or the Hummingbird.

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