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Cadmus
topic
11:12:37 PM Jun 24th 2014
edited by 24.177.125.170
"Ink Stain Adaptation: Best Wishes flaws has unfortunately added fuel to the already intense vocal hatedom towards Pokémon Black and White,further ruining its reputation, despite the anime are usually separate from the games."

This is the first time I've heard this complaint. I haven't seen anything come up about this particular trope in any of the major Pokémon forums, and considering the general disinterest the western fandom has with the anime in general, I'm curious how that would affect BW's reception.
ANewMan
topic
08:02:01 PM Jan 21st 2014
This comment in the Ensemble Darkhorse entry concerning Ghetsis really didn't belong: Many fans took this as one of the many signs in Generation V that the series was finally growing up.

Um, the previous generation had a very complex and disturbed Omnicidal Maniac Nietzsche Wannabe with a tragic background and A God Am I motivations for destroying the universe. And the Team Galactic plot in general had many mature and morally ambiguous themes to it. That is, if anything, more sign of the franchise "growing up" than a fairly one-dimensional but incredibly evil villain. (Though I object to the use of "growing up" in reference to getting Darker and Edgier in general.)
CabbitGirlEmi
topic
07:01:18 PM Aug 2nd 2013
Should this be a meme?:

http://hospitalvespers.tumblr.com/post/22338865423/i-hate-fighting-tympoles-because-i-feel-like-im

By the way, that wasn't me who originally posted it; I go by a different name on Tumblr.
ANewMan
11:39:08 AM Jan 17th 2014
Are memes really YMMV material? I've always wondered that. It should not be subjective at all what's a meme and what isn't.
SeptimusHeap
11:44:55 AM Jan 17th 2014
FreezeBolt
topic
03:33:52 PM Jun 3rd 2012
edited by FreezeBolt
Regardless of whether he's monstrous or not, I have noticed that every mention of him on this site links to the CM entry. I'm not going to argue over the accuracy, but doesn't it seem like overkill?
ANewMan
09:05:55 AM Apr 17th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.43
^ It IS overkill, yes. But on the flip side, removing all Complete Monster refrences to him (even on Sugar Wiki!) because he's apparently "officially not a CM" is pretty extreme too. There were, and are still, many fans who see Ghetsis as THE Complete Monster of Pokémon, and for YMMV, that should at least be made known even if the wiki itself doesn't agree to call Ghetsis a definite Complete Monster. Opinions matter on this site, don't they?
lightning37
06:04:19 AM Dec 19th 2013
So from what i've collected, the whole reason Ghetsis isn't a Complete Monster is because it's proven that N isn't his real son? Because that's what i'm getting here.
ANewMan
08:56:45 PM Jan 9th 2014
edited by 98.25.4.230
No, that's not it at all. Even if N ISN'T his real son, he's his adopted child, and treating him the way Ghetsis did is unarguably wrong. The reason Ghetsis isn't considered a CM anymore is because he's apparently "small potatoes" and his world domination schemes, plus all the despicable actions he took in the name of it, isn't heinous enough when compared to other villains. Nevermind the whole thing about scale and opportunity, since Ghetsis does make the most of what he's got and is the worst he can possibly be. But the site managers aren't changing their mind about this.

Had I gotten Ghetsis to be seriously considered for the trope, this would be my writeup:

Deadbeatloser22
moderator
01:46:43 PM Jan 10th 2014
A New Man: That is a point that should have been made in the project thread. Making a passive aggressive attack on another troper because you disagree with the decision is also not something we are required to tolerate.
ANewMan
04:20:26 PM Jan 10th 2014
What's the project thread? And I apologize if anything I said was a passive aggressive attack on anyone.
Telcontar
moderator
01:11:29 AM Jan 11th 2014
The project thread is here.
ANewMan
05:44:23 PM Jan 11th 2014
I can't make this point on the project thread because right there on the first page, Ghetsis is in the "Never Again" list, meaning that it's a case that's been closed forever, the wiki does not think he qualifies, he is not to be reconsidered and he should never be discussed on that thread again - hence, NEVER AGAIN. So I won't attack any more tropers or the wiki, I won't ever not think of Ghetsis as a Complete Monster despite what the wiki tells me, and I won't ever bring him up on the project thread because it's against the rules to do so.
ANewMan
08:04:02 PM Jan 21st 2014
edited by 98.25.4.230
Oh, apparently there are still some references to Ghetsis being thought of as a Complete Monster. In the Love to Hate entry on him and the Fan-Disliked Explanation entry for the sequels' YMMV. Go figure.
Zuruzukin
topic
06:45:18 PM Nov 21st 2011
I don't see why Ghetsis is listed as a Complete Monster when he's clearly a Magnificent Bastard.
SomeNewGuy
06:47:21 PM Nov 21st 2011
There's nothing Magnificent about him. He's the epitome of a Smug Snake.
Zuruzukin
06:55:04 PM Nov 21st 2011
edited by Zuruzukin
At the same time, there's nothing Monstrous about him. So why is he listed as one?
SomeNewGuy
07:21:53 PM Nov 21st 2011
...Nothing monstrous about him? Did we play the same game?
SparkyLurkdragon
12:27:46 AM Nov 22nd 2011
He does hit all three major points: the other characters are revolted by him once his motives and actions come to light, said actions are never presented in a good light, and if he regrets what he did, I'm a Miltank.

The guy's the nastiest Pokevillian since Cipher, and the nastiest mainline game-canon villain, full stop.
Zuruzukin
07:38:23 AM Nov 22nd 2011
edited by Zuruzukin
Regardless, his treatment of N makes him a saint in my eyes. I hated that little green-haired bastard, and like to imagine that Zekrom dropped him into a volcano afterwards.

Look, I don't want to talk about this anymore, okay?
VeryMelon
09:16:29 AM Nov 22nd 2011
edited by VeryMelon
Eh, whatever.
SilverHelios
06:31:54 AM Feb 15th 2012
Well, when you think about it, the worst thing we actually see Ghetsis do is insult N. Still, I guess this is a perfect example of varying mileage.
TroperOnAStickV2
04:31:03 PM Apr 9th 2013
... I'm sorry. When was it decided Ghetsis doesn't qualify for Complete Monster? I admit, I missed that.
ANewMan
09:18:47 AM Apr 17th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.45
^ There was a HUGE discussion on that. He was ultimately removed because 32_footsteps was a stubborn ass....I mean, because he "failed the heinous standard" compared to Cyrus. Even though Cyrus had no bearing on Pokémon Black and White whatsoever.

There's nothing Magnificent about him. He's the epitome of a Smug Snake.

I'm actually in agreement here. A guy who boasts "I AM PERFECTION!" and throws a tantrum when his plans fall apart is totally a Smug Snake rather than a Magnificent Bastard.

He does hit all three major points: the other characters are revolted by him once his motives and actions come to light, said actions are never presented in a good light, and if he regrets what he did, I'm a Miltank. The guy's the nastiest Pokevillian since Cipher, and the nastiest mainline game-canon villain, full stop.

I agree with all this, but try telling this to the mods who've outlawed Ghetsis as a CM. They'll just argue about too much Offscreen Villainy and how his villainy wasn't as heinous as the previous Big Bad.

Regardless, his treatment of N makes him a saint in my eyes. I hated that little green-haired bastard

WOW. Just...WOW. Draco in Leather Pants / Ron the Death Eater much?

Well, when you think about it, the worst thing we actually see Ghetsis do is insult N.

Everything bad that happened in the first game was the outcome of his scheming. While said scheming was all off-screen and in backstory, we DO see the results of it all coming to fruition, and then we see him not only want to eliminate the player character, but expresses that he longs to see him/her break in despair and lose all hope. What tops it off isn't just that he insults N, but he insults him after revealing how he raised him up to be what he is now, which means he's insulting his "son" for being exactly what his whole plan hinged on him being. Hypocrite.
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