Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids!
"Innocence is chrysalis, a phase designed to end. Only when we are free from it do we know ourselves."
When a character (primarily in dramas) is asked to go beyond their job and help with "a cause", the character sometimes refuses, and afterwards the other person asks, "What's happened to you?" or "Since when did you stop caring?" the answer sometimes comes down to the character saying, "I grew up
," implying that the character "grew" from a Wide-Eyed Idealist
to an embittered cynic
. It's also often used by the Anti-Hero
or Straw Nihilist
to mock the idealistic methods and beliefs of the Ideal Hero
and his ilk; such naive
wishful thinking has no place in the grown-up, paranoid, cynical
world that the Anti Hero lives in. Alternatively, a Retired Badass
might have genuinely gotten too old or set in retirement to do what's being asked of them.
Considering that many shows and media that are on the idealistic end of the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism
or are just plain Lighter and Softer
with simplistic plots are primarily targeted towards children, while cynical media with more controversial plots are often targeted to adults or attract controversy from Moral Guardians
, there can often be a tendency, especially among more cynical people, to associate idealism with childish or simplistic thinking, something to outgrow, rather than an actual, legitimate, motivatingnote
philosophy that adults can also make use of. This conditioned bias is a major reason for why many people believe True Art Is Angsty
It should be noted that a secondary reason is the association in working class culture between adulthood and the abandonment of lofty goals. The general idea is that you get a job and stop daydreaming, and eventually come to peace with the idea that you probably won't be famous or single-handedly reshape the world, and is as much a survival mechanism as it is crab-bucket reflex.
Sometimes the result of the character crossing the Despair Event Horizon
. The Sour Supporter
often expresses it, especially in the face of Least Is First
. May be accompanied by a warning that Hope Is Scary
. Subtrope of Jade-Colored Glasses
. See also Silly Rabbit, Romance Is for Kids!
. Could also overlap with Obstructive Bureaucrat
, and Noble Bigot with a Badge
Expect this phrase to be uttered in Crapsack World
settings and Real Life
. Especially by the more Machiavellian Realpolitikers
when they lecture idealists about the deceptive dog-eat-dog world of international relations. Also hordes of edgy teenagers, but the pro-idealism side of things has plenty of those as well.
Contrast Good Is Old-Fashioned
, where idealism is regarded as only for the children's grandparents. The intent is much the same: To imply that the good/idealistic person is unfamiliar with the here and now. The character may say that what they are dealing with is Above Good and Evil
, and the idealistic character should not drag in such childish morality.
It's not all one-way, however; the idealist may fire a few shots back in return
. The cynic may be dismissed as a 'sell-out' who gave up on doing the right thing for their own selfish gain under the false pretense of logic and realism
. For instance certain characters just aren't willing to jeopardize their careers, and livelihoods just to change the status quo (this could be Truth in Television
depending on how romantic one is and who you happen to be looking at). Or maybe he'll even be called a 'coward' and a weakling who gave up the good fight because he found it too hard and instead resigns oneself in wangsting
about bad things. For those kinds of call-outs, see Silly Rabbit, Cynicism Is for Losers!
. Of course, a true cynic would
also be cynical about their cynicism.
Compare and contrast Knight in Sour Armor
, who still hold ideals, just not as idealists. A converted holder of Silly Rabbit Idealism Is For Kids views may turn into a Knight In Sour Armour
, keeping to the appearance of cynicism while reluctantly pursuing idealistic goals. Also contrast Silly Rabbit, Cynicism Is for Losers!
, for when excessive cynicism and pessimism turns out to be just as blinding as too much idealism or optimism.
A direct antithesis of Good Is Not Dumb
. These characters could also fit under the Stopped Caring
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Anime & Manga
- Partially due to his Heroic BSOD in Season 3, Judai in Yu-Gi-Oh! GX developed a “Stop Having Fun” Guys mentality towards Duel Monsters during his journey into adulthood between Seasons 3 and 4, effectively losing the optimism that he had for two and a half seasons.
- Oddly enough, before that he was big on 'It's a game, have fun!' Pretty big turn around.
- In the final episode Judai duels Yugi and regains his passion for dueling.
- Technically, he was supposed to have regained it during the pair duel that season, but then the writers said "screw it" and had him re-learn that exact same lesson for the finale.
- Great Teacher Onizuka: Often a particularly jaded character (such like Urumi, Miyabi, Ms. Daimon...) will go in a rant about the rotting of the society, Adults Are Useless or abusive/perverted creeps, kids are delinquents, you can trust nobody or they shall abuse you or take advantage of you. However they sooner or later are confronted with the opposite trope and being told they are just blind cynics and that mindset is one of the roots of those troubles.
- Mazinger Z: In a story arc of the Gosaku Ota manga alternate continuity Baron Ashura manages kidnapping Kouji Kabuto and tries to talking Kouji in joining him. When Kouji refuses, Ashura goes in a What Is Evil? rant, stating "justice" and "peace" are only meaningless, empty words invented by people because they are too coward and weak to accept the truth (Might Makes Right according him) and protect themselves, and then he taunts Kouji telling the only thing his idealism has got him are troubles and humilliations.
- Subverted in Rurouni Kenshin. When the villains try to Break the Cutie Kaoru by saying that martial arts are for killing, the titular protagonist agrees.. but also says that he prefers the idealism over the truth.
- Used in Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei the first time Itoshiki Nozomu teaches the class.
- To expand on it, Nozomu tells his class to write down their "Despairs for the future", essentially the students writing down their "Hopes for the future", what they are aiming at becoming, which Nozomu shoots down by saying "It's hopeless", and then giving them a Breaking Lecture on their unrealistic goals... And then Fuura Kafuka shoots HIM down simply by stating that no matter how unrealistic your goal is, as long as you do your best to achieve it "the possibility exists" that you'll succeed. note
- In Fullmetal Alchemist both Miles and another Briggs soldier mention this, as when they were Ed's age they thought they could get through life without killing anyone either.
- The Token Mini-Moe in Heat Guy J gets in an argument with a Defective Detective, when he tells her that money isn't everything. In her world, where she and her mother barely have what they need to survive, money is everything, and she has become jaded. She tells him that believing in ideals like "money can't bring happiness" is all a fantasy.
- Monster: Johan seems to be trying to teach this to Tenma, and toward the end says "The only thing humans are equal in... is death."
- This trope is inverted in Black Lagoon when Takenaka, a Terrorist Without A Cause, attempts to interrogate Rock into giving up some info by convincing him that they're Not So Different. Rock refuses, and asks Takenaka why he keeps fighting for a cause he's already lost. Takenaka explains that he's long since lost any ideals about being able to do anything constructive with his actions, but "keeps preaching" because it's the only thing he finds meaning in doing.
- One can argue that then entire series is about this trope when it comes to Rock's character. He's had to face this trope many times.
- Used in Tiger & Bunny to highlight the duality between Kotetsu and his partner Barnaby. Barnaby, a Punch Clock Hero who views superheroics as "just another job", finds Kotetsu's still-intact idealism and aspirations towards being The Cape to be childish and naive. The twist is that Kotetsu is at least ten years older than Barnaby, and seems to be holding on to the virtues of "the good old days" in an era where superheroes have become marketing mascots.
- As the series progresses and he starts to rub off on Barnaby, the focus of the trope shifts from the two of them to Kotetsu and Lunatic, a Vigilante Man whose sense of justice involves burning criminals alive.
- In his case, it turns out his mindset is based on the knowledge of what the Stern Bild idea of 'justice' actually entails. For much of the series the HeroTV heroes are ignorant of the the massive corruption and violence that lies behind the glitzy theatrics, giving another reason (if one were needed) why the others don't see where Lunatic's coming from. Hopefully time will tell what the reactions of them and NEXTs in general will be to Maverick's setup being uncovered.
- In One Piece, when the Sun Pirates helps a young human girl (whom they had grown to cherish) return to her village, Arlong is quick to ruin their mood by stating that Koala will grow up to hate fishmen like any other human. While he was wrong about Koala to the point that she's a Revolutionary and substitute teacher of the Fishman style of martial arts, he was right about the people of Koala's hometown, who repaid Fisher Tiger's kindness in returning the ex-slave child by reporting him to the Marines, who mortally wounded him, purely out of Fantastic Racism.
- It's a trait of many villains in the series that they'll spout a line like this. Donquixote Doflamingo especially does it a lot, though it's subverted by the Big Bad Blackbeard, who actually believes in dreams and idealism in his own, twisted way.
- Which makes sense considering he has the Will of D.
- In Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Homura Akemi beautifully sums it up:
"With kindness comes naïveté. Courage becomes foolhardiness. And dedication has no reward. If you can't accept any of that, you are not fit to be a Magical Girl."
- Harry is far more cynical than the more idealist Anakin in The Havoc Side of the Force. Unlike most examples however, he teaches Anakin to be more cynical because he honestly doesn't want the kid to learn the hard way like Harry did.
Films — Animated
Films — Live-Action
- The Brave One: Jackie, the ex-wife of Detective Mercer from this film. Detective Mercer asks Jackie for help and she replies, "I can't help. Besides, I don't do 'pro bono." When Mercer asks why, she responds, "I grew up."
- The Dark Knight: This film is essentially a battle of ideologies between Batman and The Joker, with the Joker trying to prove to Batman that deep down, everyone is just as evil as he is.
- Dragonheart: The hero starts off as this, a cold hearted mercenary who was soured by trying to instruct a king in the old code, the code of honour of the kingdom, who grew up heartless anyway. He later becomes something of a Knight In Sour Armour.
- In The Elite Squad, Neto is insulted as naive by Fabio when the former is incredulous about the precinct commander's getting paid off by the drug dealers. He quickly learns to turn the cops' bribe-taking against them. Matias doesn't.
- Extreme Justice: In this Lou Diamond Phillips film, a lot of the Powers That Be appear to be this way when dealing with Knight Templar cops. Mostly due to the fact they think the ends justify the means, and the lower level powers that be are largely useless due to being in fear of losing their jobs and pensions. And Lou Diamond Phillips' character is mostly seen as naive by his co-workers because he's trying to expose the corruption that people seem to passively aggressively support.
- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: In a Deleted Scene from the fourth film, Moody (actually Crouch Jr.) tells Harry after the Second Task that "if you want to play the hero, I can find you plenty of playmates among the first years."
- New Jack City:
- The charismatic drug lord Nino Brown gave such a speech to the old military veteran, after the veteran tries to reason with Nino that he's destroying his own community and hurting his own people selling drugs. Nino's response:
Nino Brown: Look at you... in a few years they'll be marking your grave. Me? I'll be right here. What can you offer them? Another "I have a dream" speech? Some of that same shit you ripping off to me? Look where we at. Not a pot to piss in, nor a window to throw it out of. You's the fool, old man.
- Nino Brown continued to joke about the war veteran later that night. But the old man would get the last laugh.
- Predator: Dutch finds his special forces team has been duped by CIA agent Dillon:
Dutch: What happened to you, Dillon? You used to be someone I could trust.
Dillon: I woke up. Why don't you? You're an asset. An expendable asset. And I used you to get the job done.
- Revolution (1985): Mr. McConnahay more or less tells Daisy this.
- Se7en: This is Somerset's attitude towards Mills. Somerset's years as a cop have left him disillusioned, jaded, and borderline misanthropic. He scoffs at the younger man's more optimistic outlook on life, at one point even chastising him by saying "You can't be this naive!" When Mills finally succumbs to the darkness by killing John Doe, however, Somerset is clearly saddened to be proven right.
- This Mark Wahlberg film turns into this trope towards the end of the film as the protagonist tries to bring down a corrupt senator, a colonel, and a group of Private Military Contractors. The film even includes the "This is the "real world" type of speech from the Attorney General towards Bob Lee Swagger. Of course, his Exact Words are:
- Star Wars:
- Has this occur later on; Han gets Luke to his destination (as per their deal), goes on a massive detour to save a princess and adds the Empire to the list of people who want him dead, only to be met with criticism from the naive teenager who owes him for wanting to leave after earning his reward. Averted when the Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism tipples ever so slightly towards idealism when The Power of Friendship means that the good guys win.
- Lampshaded in Blue Harvest:
Luke: So, you got your reward and you're leaving? Is that it?
Han: Well, when you say it that way, I sound like a douche. But yeah, that's what I'm doing.
- The Thin Red Line: In this Terrence Malick film, Pvt. Witt is constantly taunted by his superiors for being an idealistic dreamer.
- Training Day: The entire movie is about this trope.
- Watchmen: In this film, as well as the comic, Ozymandias tells Nite Owl to grow up and adapt, as the new world has no place for silly old-fashioned heroics.
- In World War Z, this is the viewpoint of many Jerk Asses in such interviews as the one with former White House chief of staff Grover Carlson. Asked about the response of the White House to reports of the walking dead, Carlson claims it was above and beyond, and brags that Phalanx, a supposed anti-zombie drug, was pushed through the Food and Drug Administration. When the Narrator points out that Phalanx didn't work, Carlson explodes and launches into a tirade that what mattered was that a panic had been avoided, ultimately telling the interviewer to "grow up":
"Can you imagine the damage it would have done to the administration's political capital? We're talking about an election year, and a damn hard, uphill fight. ... Oh, c'mon. Can you ever 'solve' poverty? Can you ever 'solve' crime? Can you ever 'solve' disease, unemployment, war, or any other societal herpes? Hell no. All you can ever hope for is to make them manageable enough to allow people to get on with their lives. That's not cynicism, that's maturity."
- Given that this guy was personally responsible for a number of the dumbass decisions that led the world to ruin, he should feel lucky that his punishment is simply collecting manure for a biodiesel plant. Of course, his viewpoint is that his decisions kept society going long enough for the Redekker Plan to be enacted, therefore making him one of the world's unsung saviors. The reader is left hanging as to this.
- Theo Bell has this exchange with his old friend Angus in a Vampire: The Masquerade spinoff novel, not long after finding out Angus was the one who'd been repeatedly trying to kill him.
- The Decembrist uprising of 1825 is described in such terms for all of Russian high society in The Death of the Vazir Mukhtar; while "the people of the [eighteen] twenties" are generally idealistic if superfluous, impractical and hypocritical, the people who replace them at the forefront of high society after the failure of the Decembrist uprising are more pragmatic, materialistic and outwardly conformist (notably, both sides can be pretty cynical or the opposite regardless of this divide, just in different ways). And then there is the main character, Aleksandr Griboyedov, who is stuck awkwardly between the two groups and is very cynical and contemptuous towards both.
- Animorphs. Jake's brother Tom (who is actually controlled by an alien Yeerk slug) sums the trope up when talking about morality in war:
"Honor and courage aren't what matters, not in real war. What matters is whether you win. After you win, then you start talking about honor and courage. When you're in battle, you do what you have to do. Honor and courage and all that? Those are the words you say after you've killed all your enemies."
- It's telling that by this point in this story, Jake's inner monologue is along the same lines.
- This is also what he tells himself when he sends his cousin Rachael on a suicide mission to kill Tom.
- Within the Animorphs themselves, Marco tells Cassie this a lot.
- In the Bad Future where Yeerks have conquered Andalites and humans, Cassie has become a Knight Templar terrorist happily dynamiting skyscrapers full of people. She tells Jake that now she finally understands war.
- In James Stoddard's The High House, Murmur rebukes Duskin for wanting to join in the defense of the house; his father would have, but that was idealism of youth, which he never outgrew.
- A Song of Ice and Fire seems to run on this trope. It's particularly the focus of Sansa's character development, as she turns from an idealistic, romantic girl into a reserved, suspicious, cynical and untrusting woman.
- The First Law series has this in spades.
- In Gene Stratton Porter's Michael O'Halloran, when Douglas rejects an offical position, he gets this.
"It is painful to a man of experience to see you young fellows of such great promise come up and 'kick' yourself half to death 'against the pricks' of established business, parties, and customs, but half of you do it. In the end all of you come limping in, poor, disheartened, defeated, and then swing to the other extreme, by being so willing for a change you'll take almost anything, and so the dirty jobs naturally fall to you."
- Trapped on Draconica: Kazebar gives a Breaking Speech at the end about how idealism is foolish and everything is about power.
- Painfully Deconstructed in the fifth book of the Wings of Fire series, as it delves within the mind of Sunny, local Wide-Eyed Idealist and The Cutie. It shows how Sunny's friends adopting this mindset, constantly dismissing Sunny's ideas on the basis of their idealistic nature, and treating her like a young child has left her with a very raw inferiority streak and a strong desire for acceptance. The fact that Sunny believes in the importance of action and is actually willing to make an effort to make the world a better place, and why this is important to her, is a huge part of her Character Development. She does become slightly more realistic, but as The Anti-Nihilist and one who constantly strives for the better of the world.
Live Action TV
- Music example, slightly inverted: In his song "My Back Pages", Bob Dylan describes his angry-young-man cynicism of a few years earlier, and its gradual evolution into pragmatism, with the memorable (and confusing) chorus "I was so much older then / I'm younger than that now."
- Similarly, Billy Joel in "Angry Young Man":
I believe I've passed the age
Of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving
Was a noble fight...
- Happened with pseudo-anarchist folk/punk band Levellers. Their early albums were all 'times are tough but if we work together we can get past Thatcher and have a time of peace and joy and happiness'. Now, twenty or so years later their songs seem to mostly be about how the world sucks and we're all screwed.
- Green Day has at least two songs directly dealing with or referencing this, Emenius Sleepus and The Grouch. The former is about a friend who underwent the process, the latter, the narrator.
- The Jam in "Burning Sky", though that was meant to be from the viewpoint of a character who'd embraced the capitalist system.
- Both played straight and subverted with Avril Lavigne. Her first album, made when she was just a teenager, was a poppy, punky teen fest, and Sk8er Boi became a hit song among preteens. Two years later and she abandoned the "immaturity" for wagnst and cynicism. Three years after that, and she's a teenager again! But now, she's put out a soft rock/acoustic album, making this a Zig Zagged Trope.
- In I Fight Dragon's 'No One Likes Superman Anymore':
Cuz no one wants to know the man who stands for things we outgrow
He’s too noble and too blind
We’re all older now and we don’t need someone to care about
The innocence we left behind…
- Supertramp's "Dreamer".
- From RENT: "What happened to Benny? What happened to his heart, and the ideals he once pursued?"
- Jean Anouilh's version of Antigone is a rare example of this being taken seriously as opposed to being scoffed at or framed as rationalization. The play is concerned with Antigone's willingness to die as a punishment for trying to ensure that one of her brothers gets a proper burial, which itself is a manifestation of her ideological opposition to Creon, the pragmatic ruler that's replaced her father. Her willingness to die for her principles is framed more as a symptom of youth. She can't appreciate how destructive and foolish dying for her cause might be and so winds up ruining the lives of everyone she loves and not accomplishing anything other than ideological purity. Anouilh regards her youthful lack of perspective as her hamartia.
- In Vanities, Kathy learns the hard way, after losing her boyfriend and her nervous breakdown, that her idea of "an organized life" doesn't work well in adulthood. Then the cast as a whole finds out that their friendship "isn't what it used to be".
- Cyrano de Bergerac: At Act II Scene VII, De Guiche offers us a more sophisticated examples than most, when he counsels Cyrano to study Don Quixote’s chapter of the windmills... implying that Cyrano too will be betrayed by his own idealism.
- Man of La Mancha: This is the attitude of the Duke, and of Dr. Carrasco; the character he plays in the Show Within a Show.
- In Live A Live, the former hero Hash has this attitude; he despises people in general for forgetting him after he saved the day, and considers idealistic heroes like Oersted to be stupid. He recants his position at the end, though, and tells Oersted to keep fighting so long as any one person believes in him. But when the world curbstomps Oersted's idealism too, Oersted decides to get revenge..
- In Deus Ex, two semi-major supporting characters are idealistic teenage members of La Résistance helping you battle the Ancient Conspiracy. By Deus Ex: Invisible War, long after their first plans have failed, they have grown up and become the cold-blooded, manipulative dictators of Earth and the new leaders of the Ancient Conspiracy, claiming that they did what they had to do to preserve human society.
- Also worth noting is that Nicolette and Chad were really only fighting against Majestic-12, NOT The Illuminati as a whole, so they didn't go on to join the same group they were originally fighting (and their expressed goals didn't change as much as their methods did). If you speak to Nicolette enough in the original game, it becomes obvious that she's not entirely innocent even then (and that she sees her alliance with Chad and Silhouette through very cynical eyes - considering their value as a tool of the Illuminati just like her mother did). Chad, however, may have started out more idealistic, and does give a "I can't believe I was that naive" speech in the second game.
- Fate/stay night's Archer is a very literal example. He is, literally, the grown-up version of the Wide-Eyed Idealist main character who followed his ideals and became a hero, gone extremely cynical over the fact that his path towards being a hero is littered with the corpses of those who had to die to keep that ideal.
- Final Fantasy VI: when the heroes deliver their lines on what life is, and how love is so important to each of their lives, Kefka responds with "This is pathetic! You all sound like lines from a self-help booklet!" In fact, all his speeches near this scene convey the same message.
- From Jak X:
- In Devil Survivor, Keisuke winds up playing reluctant mentor to Midori; she refuses to listen to his warnings partly because he feels this way. Over time, he grows more desperate to convince her and more cynical, until he snaps and goes Knight Templar. This doesn't help convince her that he's right, mind you.
- Completely inverted in Final Fantasy VIII. Squall starts off believing that his own cynical, antisocial viewpoints are the correct ones, but as the game progresses and Rinoa and the friends he makes help him both emotionally mature and deal with his mental trauma, he becomes more idealistic.
- This article claims that, since The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess went with a realistic art style, Nintendo ought to have made Link more "realistic", namely, by turning him into an antihero. The author's argument hinges in large part on his assertion that people were "very disappointed" with Twilight Princess because the realistic art style supposedly ought to have been paired with a non-idealistic hero. The article became Hilarious in Hindsight because, a mere three days later, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword was revealed with an art style that was decidedly less realistic than the one in Twilight Princess, with a Link who is just as much of a normal hero as both the one in Twilight Princess and every other Link.
- In L.A. Noire, veteran Vice Detective Roy Earle says this to Cole Phelps when they discuss the crack down (or lack thereof) on illegal narcotics in the city.
Roy: Drugs are prohibited. Doesn't mean people don't want to take them. Limiting supply doesn't mean that we have limited demand.
Cole: I understand that. I know that the average Joe needs to unwind a little, let his hair down at the end of the week. But morphine? Heroin?
Roy: It's important to demonize hop, Phelps. Looks good in the papers. But when all's said and done, it's just another chemical like booze. A lot of people in high places think we are doing the city a favor by keeping the dope rolling into Central Avenue. Donelly certainly believes we need to keep them anesthetized.
Cole: Better jobs and opportunities would go a lot further.
Roy: Will you listen to yourself?
- Subverted in Backyard Sports with pretty much every character in there. They may have grown up, but, fortunately they're just as happy as they were when they were younger kids (maybe even more.)
- This exchange in Dragon Age: Origins.
Protagonist: What could the teyrn hope to gain by betraying the king?
Alistair: The throne? He's the queen's father. Still, I can't see how he'll get away with murder.
Flemeth: You speak as if he would be the first king to gain his throne that way. Grow up, boy.
- In God of War III, Kratos has such an exchange with Pandora, telling her hope is for fools. She responds with a plea that hope gives people strength. Eventually, she proves to be right as Kratos is actually empowered by hope from Pandora's Box.
- This little exchange in Dissidia: Final Fantasy between Cloud and Cecil in regards to Firion's dream of an ideal world.
Cecil: Did Firion give you his answer?
Cloud: Yeah. He says he has a dream...and that he'll keep fighting to make it come true.
Cecil: Sounds like Firion, sure enough.
Cloud: He told you?
Cecil: Yes, although he was embarrassed at first. He said he wants to create a world where flowers grow in perpetual peace.
Cloud: Sounds so...childlike.
Cecil: Honest men have honest dreams.
- Keeper, the boss of the Imperial Agent class in Star Wars: The Old Republic takes this attitude to Agents who make too many Light Side choices. Not so much that he disapproves in principle, but that he fears that idealism will cause the agent to burn-out.
- Cyrus tells the hero/ine of Pokemon Diamond And Pearl that things like friendship, compassion, and love are just illusions people use to block out the horrible reality of their suffering. He then comments on the hero/ine drawing strength from their compassion.
- In Starcraft II this comes up in the cinematic A Better Tomorrow, after the heroes have broken open a prison. Matt Horner claims that the victory was breaking out all the political prisoners. They are fighting to expose Mengsk as a war criminal, build a better tomorrow, and not act of vengeance. Tosh calls this naive saying that tyranny is only ever succeed by tyranny, and all you can do is fight against the current enemy. Raynor comments that the better future will come, but those fighting out of hate (like him and Tosh) will have no place in it.
- Cody Travers from Final Fight and later the Street Fighter series. While it is not actually seen in the games, multiple games tell the story of his downfall, which occur after the ending of the original Final Fight. Cody and his friends go out to save his girlfriend from the Big Bad in Final Fight. On the way, he beats up a corrupt cop named Edi, who later arrests the hero for assault in battery. Next, his girlfriend dumps him, and leaves the country to study abroad. Afterwards, he is let out of jail and tries to get revenge by fighting criminals outside. He gets arrested again, and becomes addicted to fighting within prison. He then eventually breaks out, and joins the Street Fighting cast in their tournament(s). He usually fights alongside his best friend Guy (who also comes from the final fight series), who is always telling Cody that he is a good person. Cody, however, usually claims that he will never be the hero again, and often states that all he has left is fighting (which he often exclaims is pointless).
- In American politics, supporters of third-party candidates aren't congratulated for participating in the democratic system and standing up for what they believe in. Instead, supporters of third party candidates like Bob Barr, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson along with idealistic candidates on both the mainstream parties like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, are often demonized by moderates on their side of the aisle and belittled by the media, with the justification that "compromise is better than idealism."
- In return, the idealists would fire back that it is simply because the system is "too corrupt" to let anyone who is an honest person, an idealist or anyone that is not a Sleazy Politician to take office.
- This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a grey area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that succeeds can be an improvement on either party, at least in potential, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans still seethe about conservatives who voted for Perot and effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for Get Republicans Elected Every November. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like approval voting.
- The mathematics work out this way because American elections work on the basis of a simple plurality. So if 3% of the voters vote for whom they perceive to be the best party while 48% vote for the second-best and 49% vote for the worst (again, labels are as perceived by the 3% and maybe part of the 48%), well, Nice Job Breaking It, Hero.
- The trick here is that altering the election system would require the co-operation of the party or parties in charge, and it's always in their best interest to keep third-parties as shutout as possible.
- The very fact that the Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism on this wiki was once called the Sliding Scale of Idealism Vs Realism illustrates this trope well.
- Similarly, it's not uncommon on the wiki to read that deconstructions tend to be Darker and Edgier because they take existing tropes and genres and play them "true to life" and as realistically as possible, implying that life itself is inherently dark and edgy.
- In International Relations theory, the two biggest (though by no means only) schools of thought are usually referred to as Liberalism, which believes that countries can work together and that co-operation either is or should be a priority for countries in almost all circumstances and is mutually beneficial for all concerned; and Realism, which is a rather more cynical take on things that suggests all countries are/should be out for themselves at all times, are mutually hostile, and often are barely restrained from outright conflict at all times. Although realists were the ones who chose the label, so the choice was probably made with this trope in mind to suggest maturity and to downplay the 'silly' or 'naive' idealism of others.
- And in the middle, we have the Rationalist school, which accepts some elements of both theories.
- A political cartoon in 2008 accused John McCain of pandering to the right wing in his Republican Presidential nomination campaign with his much less moderate views than he had promoted in his 2000 campaign. When asked what happened to the "Straight-Talk Express" McCain of 2000, the cartoon version of him replied, "He lost."
- More than one Green Party has been torn between those who want policies that completely minimise our carbon footprint and those who want a chance at actually getting power to implement the lightest of said policies. Usually, the extremists have to break off and form a pressure group.
- There's a saying in American politics: "A conservative at the age of twenty has no heart; a liberal at the age of forty has no brain." This was derived from a 19th century remark by a French politician: "A monarchist at the age of 20 has no heart; a republican [small r, as in "believes in a republic"] at the age of 40 has no brain". Of course, these paint conservatism and monarchism as the more mature choices.
- A popular modern Russian saying goes "A pessimist is a well-informed optimist".