History Main / SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids

4th Nov '17 11:55:10 PM Rissis
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* In the ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'' episode "Heroes and Monsters", Ruby Rose, despite being on the ropes, is still determined to be the hero, save the day and stop Roman Torchwick and the other bad guys from wrecking Vale. Torchwick laughs that off and tells her that if she still wants to be the hero, then she should just roll over and die like every other Huntsman in history. He proceeds to tell her that this world has no room for her type of idealism, that it should die along with her and he'll keep doing what he does best - "lie, cheat, steal and survive!" [[spoiler:A split second later, a Griffin Grimm gives him the ultimate ShutUpHannibal by [[SwallowedWhole eating him]].]] Adam Taurus tells Blake Belladonna the same thing in the same episode: when she tells him that she wanted peace and equality for the Faunus races, Adam roars out that "What you wanted ''is impossible!''"

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* In the ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'' episode "Heroes and Monsters", Ruby Rose, despite being on the ropes, is still determined to be the hero, save the day and stop Roman Torchwick and the other bad guys from wrecking Vale. Torchwick laughs that off and tells her that if she still wants to be the hero, then she should just roll over and die like every other Huntsman in history. He proceeds to tell her that this world has no room for her type of idealism, that it should die along with her and he'll keep doing what he does best - "lie, cheat, steal and survive!" [[spoiler:A split second later, a Griffin Grimm gives him the ultimate ShutUpHannibal by [[SwallowedWhole eating him]].]] Adam Taurus tells Blake Belladonna the same thing in the same episode: when she tells him that she wanted peace and equality for the Faunus races, Adam roars out that "What you wanted want ''is impossible!''"
1st Nov '17 7:17:58 AM RandomnessUnlimited
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Kaeloo}}'': Happens all too often with Mr. Cat and Kaeloo. Kaeloo's optimism is usually crushed when she gets a dose of the real world, with Mr. Cat telling her "IToldYouSo".
19th Aug '17 5:34:02 PM Franco-America2018
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** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting[[note]]which almost surprisedly know cities throughout the United States like San Francisco or Minneapolis and then-recently Maine (even against odds of fight to keep in effect for months by Maine Supreme Court ruling as Unconstitutional in state level) adopted the system within last two decades to get rid spoiler effect, But problem it's way take while due [[StrawmanNewsMedia news media]] still [[PropagandaMachine propagated]] people to vote Democrat or Republican by out ''fear' instead ideological purposes to back them[[/note]] or approval voting to try getting break this effect.

to:

** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting[[note]]which almost surprisedly know cities throughout the United States like San Francisco or Minneapolis and then-recently Maine (even against odds of fight to keep in effect for months by Maine Supreme Court ruling as Unconstitutional in state level) adopted the system within last two decades to get rid spoiler effect, But problem it's way take while due [[StrawmanNewsMedia news media]] still [[PropagandaMachine propagated]] people to vote Democrat or Republican by out ''fear' ''fear'' instead ideological purposes to back them[[/note]] or approval voting to try getting break this effect.
19th Aug '17 5:31:02 PM Franco-America2018
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** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting[[note]]which almost surprisedly know cities throughout the United States like San Francisco or Minneapolis and then-recently Maine adopted the system within two decades to get rid spoiler effect, But it's way take while due [[StrawmanNewsMedia news media]] will still [[PropagandaMachine propagated]] people to vote Democrat or Republican[[/note]] or approval voting to try getting break this effect.
** The mathematics work out this way because American elections work on the basis of a simple ''pure'' plurality[[note]]which is 'First Past The Post' voting system of doing that and becoming hot topic in countries of having this ''very'' long time like the United States and the United Kingdom are worried this becoming too beneficial for centre-right parties in recent decades[[/note]]. So if 3% of the voters vote for whom they perceive to be the best party while 48% vote for the second-best and 49% vote for the worst (again, labels are as perceived by the 3% and maybe part of the 48%), well, NiceJobBreakingItHero. The trick here is that altering the election system would require the cooperation of the party or parties in charge, and it's always in their best interest to keep third-parties as shutout means as possible.

to:

** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting[[note]]which almost surprisedly know cities throughout the United States like San Francisco or Minneapolis and then-recently Maine (even against odds of fight to keep in effect for months by Maine Supreme Court ruling as Unconstitutional in state level) adopted the system within last two decades to get rid spoiler effect, But problem it's way take while due [[StrawmanNewsMedia news media]] will still [[PropagandaMachine propagated]] people to vote Democrat or Republican[[/note]] Republican by out ''fear' instead ideological purposes to back them[[/note]] or approval voting to try getting break this effect.
** The mathematics work out this way because American elections work on the basis of a simple ''pure'' plurality[[note]]which is 'First Past The Post' voting system of capable doing that and becoming notorious hot topic in countries of having this system ''very'' long time like aforementioned the United States and the United Kingdom are worried this becoming too beneficial for centre-right parties in recent decades[[/note]]. So if 3% of the voters vote for whom they perceive to be the best party while 48% vote for the second-best and 49% vote for the worst (again, labels are as perceived by the 3% and maybe part of the 48%), well, NiceJobBreakingItHero. The trick here is that altering the election system would require the cooperation of the party or parties in charge, and it's always in their best interest to keep third-parties as shutout means as possible.
9th Aug '17 8:25:49 PM Nicoaln
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* More sentiments of this trope that have been found inside and outside of this wiki have been found in how people used to perceive DarkerAndEdgier as more "mature" while LighterAndSofter was less mature. On this wiki, people used to cite CerebusSyndrome and the progression towards DarkerAndEdgier as part of GrowingTheBeard while ReverseCerebusSyndrome and LighterAndSofter were often filed under SeasonalRot. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment And then there was the talk about how darker works were seen as more mature and more "adult" like]] and the flame wars ''they'' caused.
30th Jul '17 6:35:54 PM Prometheus117
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* ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'''s Archer is a very literal example. He is, literally, [[spoiler:the grown-up version of the WideEyedIdealist main character who followed his ideals and became a hero, gone extremely cynical over the fact that his path towards being a hero is littered with the corpses of those who had to die to keep that ideal.]]

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* ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'''s Archer is a very literal example. He is, literally, [[spoiler:the grown-up version of the WideEyedIdealist main character who followed his ideals and became a hero, gone extremely cynical over the fact that his path towards being a hero is littered with the corpses of those who had to die to keep that ideal.ideal]]. Ironically, in all the routes he ends up begrudgingly conceding that [[spoiler:[[SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers his past self's idealism isn't quite so bad]] and dies usually trusting that Shirou won't end up like him.]]
27th Jul '17 5:38:30 PM Franco-America2018
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** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting or approval voting to try to break this effect.

to:

** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting voting[[note]]which almost surprisedly know cities throughout the United States like San Francisco or Minneapolis and then-recently Maine adopted the system within two decades to get rid spoiler effect, But it's way take while due [[StrawmanNewsMedia news media]] will still [[PropagandaMachine propagated]] people to vote Democrat or Republican[[/note]] or approval voting to try to getting break this effect.
26th Jul '17 3:42:56 PM Franco-America2018
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** In return, the idealists would fire back that it is simply because the system is "too corrupt" and retiring of keeping Status quo maintain to let anyone who is an honest person, an idealist or anyone that is not a SleazyPolitician to take office.
** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting or approval voting.

to:

** In return, the idealists would fire back that it is simply because the system is "too corrupt" becoming broken for while and retiring done of keeping Status quo maintain to let anyone who is an honest person, an idealist or anyone that is not a SleazyPolitician to take office.
** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting or approval voting.voting to try to break this effect.
26th Jul '17 3:30:56 PM Franco-America2018
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** Another critique is not so much about idealism but simply skepticism about the HoldingOutForAHero mentality of third-party and other challengers, who largely equate the power of political change with Presidential elections rather than sustaining an effective grass-roots in local, county, state and congressional elections to effectively build a party. Ralph Nader was criticized by the likes of Chomsky and others for more or less contesting in 1999 and then sitting on the margins for four years and then once again planning a third-party bid in 2003-2004. Mostly, third-party candidates run a campaign of a [[HeroicWannabe "little guy" changing a system all by itself]] without doing any of the groundwork needed to actually make that change happen. After all, the third party in American politics that achieved the most results (the Republican Party of the [=1850s=] which is now [[NonIndicativeName the Grand Old Party) worked exactly that way.

to:

** Another critique is not so much about idealism but simply skepticism about the HoldingOutForAHero mentality of third-party and other challengers, who largely equate the power of political change with Presidential elections rather than sustaining an effective grass-roots in local, county, state and congressional elections to effectively build a party. Ralph Nader was criticized by the likes of Chomsky and others for more or less contesting in 1999 and then sitting on the margins for four years and then once again planning a third-party bid in 2003-2004. Mostly, third-party candidates run a campaign of a [[HeroicWannabe "little guy" changing a system all by itself]] without doing any of the groundwork needed to actually make that change happen. After all, the third party in American politics that achieved the most results (the Republican Party of the [=1850s=] which is now [[NonIndicativeName NonIndicativeName the Grand Old Party) worked exactly that way.
25th Jul '17 7:07:08 PM JulianLapostat
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** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in potential, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans still see the about conservatives who voted for Perot and effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for getting Republicans Elected Every November. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting or approval voting.
*** The mathematics work out this way because American elections work on the basis of a simple ''pure'' plurality[[note]]which is 'First Past The Post' voting system of doing that and becoming hot topic in countries of having this ''very'' long time like the United States and the United Kingdom are worried this becoming too beneficial for centre-right parties in recent decades[[/note]]. So if 3% of the voters vote for whom they perceive to be the best party while 48% vote for the second-best and 49% vote for the worst (again, labels are as perceived by the 3% and maybe part of the 48%), well, NiceJobBreakingItHero.
*** The trick here is that altering the election system would require the cooperation of the party or parties in charge, and it's always in their best interest to keep third-parties as shutout means as possible.
* The very fact that the SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism on this wiki was once called the Sliding Scale of Idealism Vs '''''Realism''''' illustrates this trope well.
** Similarly, it's not uncommon on the wiki to read those deconstructions tends to be DarkerAndEdgier because they take existing tropes and genres and play them "true to life" and as realistically as possible, implying that ''life itself'' is inherently dark and edgy.
* In International Relations theory, the two biggest (though by no means only) schools of thought are usually referred to as Liberalism, which believes that [[TheAlliance countries can]] [[WeAREStrugglingTogether work together]] and that [[GoodFeelsGood co-operation either is or should be a priority for countries in almost all circumstances and is mutually beneficial for all concerned]]; and Realism, which is a [[TheCynic rather more cynical take on things]] [[{{Realpolitik}} that suggests all countries are/should be]] [[ItsAllAboutMe out for themselves at all times]], are mutually hostile, and often are [[PretextForWar barely restrained from outright conflict]] at all times. Although realists were the ones who chose the label, so the choice was probably made with this trope in mind to suggest maturity and to downplay the 'silly' or 'naive' idealism of others.
** And in the middle, we have the Rationalist school, which accepts some elements of both theories.

to:

** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in potential, theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans still see the about conservatives who voted for Perot and as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for getting [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November.November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting or approval voting.
*** ** The mathematics work out this way because American elections work on the basis of a simple ''pure'' plurality[[note]]which is 'First Past The Post' voting system of doing that and becoming hot topic in countries of having this ''very'' long time like the United States and the United Kingdom are worried this becoming too beneficial for centre-right parties in recent decades[[/note]]. So if 3% of the voters vote for whom they perceive to be the best party while 48% vote for the second-best and 49% vote for the worst (again, labels are as perceived by the 3% and maybe part of the 48%), well, NiceJobBreakingItHero.
***
NiceJobBreakingItHero. The trick here is that altering the election system would require the cooperation of the party or parties in charge, and it's always in their best interest to keep third-parties as shutout means as possible.
** Another critique is not so much about idealism but simply skepticism about the HoldingOutForAHero mentality of third-party and other challengers, who largely equate the power of political change with Presidential elections rather than sustaining an effective grass-roots in local, county, state and congressional elections to effectively build a party. Ralph Nader was criticized by the likes of Chomsky and others for more or less contesting in 1999 and then sitting on the margins for four years and then once again planning a third-party bid in 2003-2004. Mostly, third-party candidates run a campaign of a [[HeroicWannabe "little guy" changing a system all by itself]] without doing any of the groundwork needed to actually make that change happen. After all, the third party in American politics that achieved the most results (the Republican Party of the [=1850s=] which is now [[NonIndicativeName the Grand Old Party) worked exactly that way.
** More than one Green Party has been torn between those who want policies that completely minimize our carbon footprint and those who want a chance at actually getting power to implement the lightest of said policies. Usually, the extremists have to break off and form a pressure group.
* The very fact that the SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism on this wiki was once called the Sliding Scale of Idealism Vs '''''Realism''''' illustrates the sentiments for this trope well.
** Similarly, it's not uncommon on
trope, as well as the wiki tendency to read those deconstructions tends to be perceive {{Deconstruction}} as DarkerAndEdgier because they take existing tropes and genres and play them "true to life" and as realistically as possible, implying which can imply that ''life itself'' is inherently dark and edgy.
edgy. Of course, it should be noted that a true [[{{Deconstruction}} deconstructionist]] and [[PostModernism post-modernist]] would question the very idea of something being "liberal" or "real", seeing even such labels or the notion of a particular idea having a particular narrative (i.e. name, meaning, structure) as a mode of fantasy regardless of how edgy said person or idea wants to be.
* In International Relations theory, the two biggest (though by no means only) schools of thought are usually referred to as Liberalism, which believes that [[TheAlliance countries can]] [[WeAREStrugglingTogether work together]] and that [[GoodFeelsGood co-operation either is or should be a priority for countries in almost all circumstances and is mutually beneficial for all concerned]]; and Realism, which is a [[TheCynic rather more cynical take on things]] [[{{Realpolitik}} that suggests all countries are/should be]] [[ItsAllAboutMe out for themselves at all times]], are mutually hostile, and often are [[PretextForWar barely restrained from outright conflict]] at all times. Although realists were the ones who chose the label, so the choice was probably made with this trope in mind to suggest maturity and to downplay the 'silly' or 'naive' idealism of others.
**
others. And in the middle, we have the Rationalist school, which accepts some elements of both theories.theories.



* More than one Green Party has been torn between those who want policies that completely minimize our carbon footprint and those who want a chance at actually getting power to implement the lightest of said policies. Usually, the extremists have to break off and form a pressure group.
* There's a saying in American politics: "A conservative at the age of twenty has no heart; a liberal at the age of forty has no brain." This was derived from a 19th-century remark by a French politician: "A monarchist at the age of 20 has no heart; a republican [small r, as in "believes in a republic"] at the age of 40 has no brain". Of course, these paint conservatism and monarchism as the more mature choices.

to:

* More than one Green Party has been torn between those who want policies that completely minimize our carbon footprint and those who want a chance at actually getting power to implement the lightest of said policies. Usually, the extremists have to break off and form a pressure group.
* There's a saying in American politics: "A conservative at the age of twenty has no heart; a liberal at the age of forty has no brain." This was derived from a 19th-century remark by a French politician: "A monarchist at the age of 20 has no heart; a republican [small r, as in "believes in a republic"] at the age of 40 has no brain". Of course, these paint conservatism and monarchism as the more mature choices. choices and of course today monarchism is pretty much dead as an idea, which should tell you something about that sentiment.
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