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Dec 24th 2016 at 5:48:00 PM •••

Haven't been able to confirm this, but I remember reading somewhere that, according to the script, Luke's reaction to Rey was because he knew exactly who she was and what her presence there meant.

Or something. It was a pic I saw online, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

Aug 29th 2016 at 6:08:36 PM •••

I don't really know if Kenny Baker was "in" this film. He was the "R2-D2 Consultant", but he isn't an actor. The Artoo used is remote-controlled.

May 14th 2016 at 1:31:11 PM •••

Maz Kanata's dive bar withstood over a thousand years of shady characters and whatever drama attended them... only to be reduced to rubble within minutes of hero arrival. I recognize a trope there, but I am having trouble putting a name to it, maybe because it's a subtrope of something more general.

Granted, our heroes are hunted, which means they're disaster magnets. However, there's some extra irony in having survived for so so long only to be wrecked as soon as the plot runs over it.

Edited by Uncle_Jeff
Apr 23rd 2016 at 5:08:39 PM •••

Could anyone clarify the line about "the first ever Scottish accent to be heard in Star Wars" please? I reckon Darth Sion has a better claim in Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

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Feb 13th 2016 at 12:04:03 AM •••

What is the best way to deal with things that are revealed in the book and/or the official screenplay in the wiki sections?

I think the book and the screenplay lend some depth and understanding of some scenes, but some of what they go into isn't so explicitly confirmed or denied in the movie itself, and at the very least the book was based off an older version of the script.

How I would do it is have any tropes be centered around what happens in the movie, but if there is some added information from the book or screenplay, to put that either as an add-on sentence, or in parenthesis. Is there an official guideline for it?

Feb 13th 2016 at 12:00:59 AM •••

Now that the film has been out for a while, what are the things that we should still put in spoilers on pages for this movie that require it?

There are definitely some things that should continue to be spoiler tagged, but I've noticed more than a few places where the spoiler tagging is a little ridiculous, and sometimes even for things that were either pretty obvious or revealed in the trailers.

For example, in the Characters: The First Order section, for the character JB-007, the line quoted for him tends to be written thus: "I will tighten those restraints, scavanger scum!" Now, I can definitely understand some parts of the character and his scene should be spoiler tagged, but that quote seems a bit ridiculous.

Jan 27th 2016 at 1:50:29 PM •••

Re: the following entry under Shout-Out:

Han Solo: Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you. You know it's true.

Compared to a line in the DIC Entertainment/Cloverway English dub of Sailor Moon R: Promise of the Rose...

Sailor Mars: You're the one who's been tricked! Kisenian wants to rule alone. She'll destroy you, Fiore. Once she gets what she wants, you're history and Darien will be too!

It... seems like a real stretch to call that an intentional Shout-Out as opposed to a coincidental similarity, unless someone can cite Word of God or some other evidence to support it.

I don't want to get into an Edit War about it, though, as it's been taken down and put back up at least once, so I wanted to bring it up here before removing it again.

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Jan 27th 2016 at 1:56:23 PM •••

I agree it definitely needs more evidence to make sure it's a Shout-Out. The two pieces of dialogue presented are hardly unique and not even that similar to each other.

Jan 28th 2016 at 9:18:52 AM •••

For the record, another troper took the issue to Ask The Tropers and is proceeding with cleanup of the entire Shout-Out section after a short discussion there.

Jan 22nd 2016 at 9:26:46 PM •••

Wait, is it now confirmed that Kylo Ren's real name is Ben Organa, not Ben Solo?

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Jan 23rd 2016 at 2:16:25 AM •••

There is a discussion in Ask The Tropers about Organa vs. Solo.

Jan 9th 2016 at 11:18:04 AM •••

Rey being left with (and assumed cared for) by the "portions guy" on Jakku, is rather similar to Anakin being raised by Watto. Not sure if that belongs anywhere, just tossing it out there.

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Jan 12th 2016 at 12:53:20 PM •••

There are some parallels, but ultimately I think more differences than similarities.

Anakin is mostly looked after by his mother, and they are both owned by Watto, Anakin is a slave and has to do Watto's bidding, although all things considered Watto seems to like Anakin and treat him reasonably well.

Rey may have been left with Unkar Plutt(sp?) but there seems to be no indication that he raised her or cared for her, at least beyond the short time it would have taken her to learn to fend for herself on Jakku. Per the novelization Plutt respects Rey and keeps his thugs away from here because she brings in good salvage more than actually caring for her wellbeing, and is shown to turn on her quickly when she does something that displeases him.

Jan 7th 2016 at 2:11:48 PM •••

Hey everybody. I was just curious if someone could help me with a potential entry.

"For the 'Force for Change' charity promos, Mark Hamill does his promo while walking around Hollywood in Stormtrooper armor, 38 years since he worn one the first time."

What tropes would this entry be under?

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Jan 7th 2016 at 9:03:34 AM •••

On BB-8 "clearly" giving Finn a thumbs-up: To me, he clearly was giving Finn a vulgar middle-finger-analog gesture. Finn just coerced BB-8 into forking over classified information to keep up his masquerade by putting the little ball on the spot in front of an unsuspecting Rey. And his choice of little tools with which to make the responding gesture was a little blowtorch. Typically, fire is not something nice in such a context.

Edited by MadCat221 Hide/Show Replies
Jan 7th 2016 at 12:23:54 PM •••

Frankly, because Star Wars is a family-friendly 'verse where people don't flip one another off.

And you say that as if he has a huge array of tools that would've approximated the gesture.

Jan 7th 2016 at 2:58:11 PM •••

Frankly, That's the whole reason the "Getting Crap Past the Radar" trope exists.

And yes, I do say that. He's an astromech droid. That's their whole purpose: to be a tool kit with a droid brain attached.

Edited by MadCat221
Jan 7th 2016 at 3:15:20 PM •••

I know that you aren't the only person who sees the scene that way and it would kind of make sense given Bb-8's initially hostile reaction to Finn.

However, in the scene itself, Finn asks for BB-8 to help him maintain his web of lies, BB-8 makes what sound like happy beeps and gives what looks like a thumbs up. BB-8 proceeds to help Finn maintain his web of lies.

If BB-8 was angry it would have been a lot clearer. We see/hear him being both angry and happy throughout the film and his response to Finn looked happy, not angry.

Jan 6th 2016 at 1:12:43 AM •••

Can Rey count as an Audience Surrogate of sorts? Just the way she acts kinda screams over-excited, dedicated Star Wars fan. Eating with a Rebel Pilot helmet, nerding out with the Original Power Trio... you get where I'm going.

Jan 4th 2016 at 5:07:29 PM •••

I know I heard the number 47 somewhere in the film. With the exact reference, would that qualify for The 47 Society?

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Jan 5th 2016 at 7:31:01 AM •••

How is just the number 47 appearing a reference to whatever that is?

Jan 7th 2016 at 3:32:42 PM •••

If this were Star Trek, it might be part of the ongoing gag concerning the number 47. But this is Star Wars. 1138 is the ongoing joke number here.

Dec 28th 2015 at 3:14:31 AM •••

The scene with the Baton Stormtrooper (nicknamed "TR-8R") who fights Finn could be a case of One-Scene-Wonder or Memetic Bystander?

Dec 27th 2015 at 11:21:58 PM •••

I see a few things about Kylo Ren "unwittingly unlocking Rey's Force abilities", this strikes me as conjecture. My reasoning:

  • Rey flies the Millennium Falcon with no training (Akin to Anakins's "Jedi Reflexes" allowing him to pod race in The Phantom Menace.)
  • She has a reaction to Luke's Lightsaber, which calls to her.
  • After the reaction Maz tells her to close her eyes and let the force flow through her, (Akin to Obi Wan telling Luke to use the helmet with the blast shield down in A New Hope.)

All of the above happens before Rey meets Kylo Ren.

So the force could have been awake in her already or activated by any of those previous encounters. So I vote for removing Nice Job Fixing It, Villain! and anything that refers to Kylo as enabling the Force in Rey.

Edited by pittsburghmuggle Hide/Show Replies
Jan 2nd 2016 at 9:14:08 PM •••

She didn't know she was Force sensitive until he started probing her. This is more of a wording issue.

Jan 12th 2016 at 11:58:20 AM •••

I think the trope still works, she has likely been unconcsiously using the Force for survival ever since she was left on Jakku, and while the Force Vision and Maz reveal her Force Sensitivity to her before she meets Kylo Ren, he still unwittingly:

a)gives her the impetous to try to conciously control and use the Force for the first time

b)gives her the first(harsh) lesson in how to control the Force

c)teaches her the basic technique of getting into someone else's mind, allowing her to do the Jedi Mind Trick

d)reminds her that she can call on the Force to help strengthen and focus her during their duel, which to that point she had fallen back into just using the Force instinctually.

Edited by doorofnight
Dec 26th 2015 at 6:34:09 PM •••

The following was entered under Composite Character:

  • Composite Character:
    • Poe borrows most of Leia's place in the story A New Hope combined with Han's dashing attitude and Luke's flying skills.
    • Rey has Han's piloting skills, Leia's intensity, and Luke's strength in the Force.
    • Finn shares Luke's eagerness to save others combined with Han's Badass Normal skills.
    • Maz Kanata shares Yoda's ancient alien background and Lando's history as a colleague smuggler of Han's.

This is not what the trope Composite Character is about. Composite Character is about the distillation required when adaptating a work from a Loads and Loads of Characters medium into an adaptation without sufficient time and space for all of them—the example given is Real Life as real life has more characters than you can fit into a movie.

The Force Awakens is not an adaptation of anything but is an original work. The examples cited above are basically new characters that folks perceive as having character traits from earlier Star Wars movies. That may or may not be lack of originality, but it isn't Composite Character.

Dec 26th 2015 at 12:14:44 AM •••

Under the trope "The War Has Just Begun" it says "We have just merely witnessed the opening shots of the Second Galactic Civil War." I thought they were 2 coexisting governments. like I don't think we'd call Britain vs France a civil war is what I mean. I'm not saying that the page is wrong I'm trying to get the facts for myself. Is my impression wrong? is there something in like books that expands on this? I'm not gonna read em so yeah

Dec 24th 2015 at 5:11:57 AM •••

Vader's status in context.

So, I need help. I know there's a trope at hand, here, but I can't narrow it down. Basically, the writers, confronted with the fact that any villain they could write in couldn't even hope to stand in Vader's shadow, they made Vader's iconic status part of the story in context. What should that trope be? I thought of Real Life Writes the Plot and Ascended Meme, but they don't seem to match. Do we even have a trope for this? If not, I feel we should.

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Dec 24th 2015 at 8:08:43 AM •••

I see what you mean, but Legendary in the Sequel matches that better (I added it to the page some time ago).

My issue is about "Vader's fame in the real world forcing the writers to acknowledge it in-story", in opposition to "Vader's deeds in-story making him famous in-story". (While yes, the second one is obviously true.)

The best I can think of is Reality Subtext, but the trope seems to vague for the current situation.

Edited by WalkingTheShades
Dec 23rd 2015 at 11:59:37 AM •••

Seeing how the heroes have until the Starkiller base finishes slurping a star to stop it from firing again, should we add Race Against the Clock to the examples?

Edited by Katabaktun Hide/Show Replies
Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:18:22 PM •••

I think that's very appropriate. They even mention that they have until then in dialogue.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 5:27:39 PM •••

Several tropers keep adding either Kylo Ren as The Dragon or him and Hux as Co-Dragons.

This is part of a widespread pattern of misuse of The Dragon as "the Big Bad's top enforcer or second in command." The Dragon is a pre-existing term going back to Joseph Campbell that is defined (at least here for troping purposes) as the penultimate challenge or obstacle which tests The Hero's worthiness before they face the Big Bad.

As the Big Bad (Snoke) has not yet been faced, we do not yet know who The Dragon of this new trilogy is. It might be Kylo Ren, it might be someone else, or there might be no Dragon at all in this story (although that last is pretty unlikely considering how closely Star Wars hews to Joseph Campbell). I'm of the opinion that it will likely be the first, but that's speculation and doesn't belong on the example list yet.

I've added a commented-out note to that effect in the hopes that it will stem this particular misuse.

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Dec 23rd 2015 at 12:04:41 PM •••

I think you are right; Hux fits better in Number Two or something like that (Mouth of Sauron? Mook Lieutenant?), and Ren definitely is The Heavy.

Edited by Katabaktun
Dec 21st 2015 at 9:47:21 AM •••

[[Spoiler:About Han's fate...should it be said firmly he's dead?]] There's huge debate raging over it because we only know that all the cast is returning in ep 9...contrary to a trope in Han's section, no one knows yet if [[Spoiler:Han]]will be in flashbacks or they'll pull a miraculous save because there's no Word of God yet.

Edited by chicagomel Hide/Show Replies
Dec 21st 2015 at 10:30:05 AM •••

Please spoiler tag that. Also we go off the tropes as they are presented in the work. All speculation stays in WMG.

Dec 21st 2015 at 10:56:03 AM •••

Spoiler tags have to be in lowercase. Like this: [[spoiler:

That said, the dude was stabbed with a lightsaber, then fell down a bottomless pit on a planet that then turned into a sun. I don't think there's any coming back from that.

Edited by MrDeath
Dec 21st 2015 at 3:13:30 PM •••

Yeah, remember Mark Hamill got top billing despite only being in for a few minutes. My guess is Ford will record Han's hologram will.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 9:45:18 AM •••

The only plausible element that could justify that is never found the body. But even then. A force sensitive character feels his death after it happens (Leia). So I'd say it's called until proven otherwise, and any argument to the contrary is likely just wishful thinking.

Dec 21st 2015 at 5:44:55 AM •••

Since the page is still locked, can someone add this later?

  • Portmanteau: Kylo. Skywalker + Solo.

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Dec 21st 2015 at 10:58:27 AM •••

No, because that's really contrived, and we don't know that's where the name comes from.

Dec 20th 2015 at 8:33:24 PM •••

There was no avoiding the new Star Wars Villains being accused of being a Darth Vader knock off. So I think it was a brilliant move for TFA to make that part of the plot, he's a Darth Vader Clone In-Universe

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Dec 20th 2015 at 11:25:10 PM •••

Yeah its definitely an invoked trope, since Ren's goal seems to actually be "Become Vader 2.0".

Dec 21st 2015 at 12:30:39 AM •••

They could have gone Thrawn route, with the villain being someone who's unable to use the Force but being dangerous by being smart.

Edited by Ratbatter
Dec 20th 2015 at 3:28:49 PM •••

When will all these locks be removed?!!

Edited by Ilya_Rysenkov Hide/Show Replies
Dec 20th 2015 at 5:19:52 PM •••

I'm also curious about this as I will be up all night tonight and would like to know if I can do some editing after everyone else is asleep.

Dec 20th 2015 at 11:19:28 PM •••

Probably at 1201 on the tropes time code.

This one says 1119 so about 45 more minutes

Edited by TheLaughingFist
Dec 21st 2015 at 12:48:34 AM •••

Damn, guess its whenever the mod unlocks it

Dec 21st 2015 at 1:55:31 AM •••

I've tried "Force" unlocking it, but no dice.

Dec 21st 2015 at 2:23:23 AM •••

Yes, The Force is stronger on this side...

Anyhow, the unlock question has been posted here.

Dec 20th 2015 at 2:01:04 PM •••

Who was the girl wearing black and white who was cuddling with the big alien in Maz's bar and then went and informed the First Order that the droid was there? She looked familiar, though I'm not sure if it's a famous cameo or just an actress who looks like another actress.

Dec 20th 2015 at 11:06:03 AM •••

Could we perhaps remove the reference to Finn being a "fledgling Jedi" in Contrasting Sequel Main Character (and, by proxy, Rey being more a more powerful Jedi than him)?

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Dec 20th 2015 at 12:27:16 PM •••

Yeah, the problem with setting up pages before works are released is we have to wade through months of people's wrong guesses. Speculation of the work before the work is even released is often WAY off.

The WMG pages across TV tropes have huge issues with this, people have had to stuff all the pre-release WMGs into a folder because they make so little sense after a work is finally released.

Edited by pittsburghmuggle
Dec 20th 2015 at 8:56:01 AM •••

It's more a reference to the entire original trilogy, as there's a lot of scenes that are echos of Empire and Jedi too.

Dec 21st 2015 at 12:31:36 AM •••

YMMV, I found it very disappointing for being a copy of the Original Trilogy.

Dec 21st 2015 at 12:47:17 AM •••

It's the Same, So It Sucks has been the most common criticism I have seen even amongst those raving on how great it is.

Dec 19th 2015 at 7:39:29 PM •••

Should we add Rule of Three for Rey needing to take three times to do the Jedi mind trick on the guarding stormtrooper?

Edited by EternallyTerrified Hide/Show Replies
Dec 19th 2015 at 7:15:48 PM •••

It will be added when the page is unlocked at the end of this weekend.

Dec 20th 2015 at 2:26:40 AM •••

That's stupid. Why wait? That's what we have bloody spoiler tags for. I want to see what I might have missed!

Dec 20th 2015 at 11:44:31 AM •••

Because there's inevitably going to be people who vandalize the page with untagged spoilers then abuse the edit-lock system to keep them there until they're banned. By keeping it locked for a while we're discouraging that, since there's very little reason to dickishly spoil things when everyone already knows them.

Edited by Dirtyblue929
Dec 19th 2015 at 5:06:06 AM •••

Tropers who want to add, but cant, please take the time NOW to understand this page is going to go nuts with lockouts once it is opened. To help out on this now, you can:

  • Get a head start now by typing up your changes separately in the Wiki Sandbox or in a text file on your desktop, then cut and paste them over when the editing is opened up. Remember, this is not a race to see who adds the trope first.
  • When the article opens, PLEASE DON'T READ OVER THE ARTICLE IN EDIT MODE. This locks out the article for a while and there may be a line waiting to add tropes as you're reading - while on most trope pages this is not a problem it is a problem when a work is popular. Read the article in normal mode until a week or so has passed, use paper and a pencil to make notes on stuff to do. Then get in, do your edits, get out. The article will be up for years and years, there will be time when the hype dies down for you to give an in-depth going-over.

Edited by pittsburghmuggle
Fighteer MOD
Dec 15th 2015 at 5:30:13 PM •••

Moderator Note: All articles under this title have been preemptively locked against early-bird spoilers. They will be unlocked after opening weekend.

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Dec 19th 2015 at 4:49:06 AM •••

Sad troper has a sad. But he understands.

Dec 21st 2015 at 6:47:36 AM •••

Given that the opening weekend is over, when will the locked be lifted?

Jun 16th 2015 at 11:33:43 AM •••

Just to clarify, the Red-Armed C-3PO images are real. They come from an official merchandise leak that happened a few weeks ago. The mug that came from Mexico is questionable, but the images are the real deal.

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Dec 19th 2015 at 4:49:41 AM •••

The red arm is pointed out, but is not explained in film. C 3 PO does say he will have to get his proper arm restored.

Edited by pittsburghmuggle
Apr 17th 2015 at 6:11:28 PM •••

Is Luke's beard an example of a Badass Beard or a wizened old man beard (who happens to be a warrior priest)?

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Apr 18th 2015 at 9:56:15 AM •••

It's a badass beard since he's grown it after becoming a full fledged warrior priest. The description could make that clearer though, will edit.

Dec 18th 2015 at 6:52:17 AM •••

Could be a literal lampshading to Growing the Beard?

Edited by MrValle
Dec 18th 2015 at 1:06:41 PM •••

Growing the Beard is an entirely different trope about a series improving over time (like an inverted Jumping the Shark). That trope isn't even inferred in the film.

Dec 19th 2015 at 2:23:56 PM •••

I know, but i saw this trope referred also to individual characters, so i thought this could have been the case

Edited by MrValle
Apr 16th 2015 at 12:00:47 PM •••

I don't know if there's going to be conflict over this but count my vote for the new page quote.

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Apr 16th 2015 at 12:19:49 PM •••

Yeah, pulling it. It shouldn't have potholes anyway. Where'd it come from? I haven't seen a new trailer yet.

For context:

"The Force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it, my sister has it. You have that power too."
Luke Skywalker

Apr 16th 2015 at 12:28:04 PM •••

I'm okay with removing the potholes but I think it's a much better quote than the last one. Source is Teaser 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs

Apr 16th 2015 at 12:31:48 PM •••

It came from this teaser, just came out today. I guess we could discuss which would be the better page quote.

Apr 16th 2015 at 12:40:01 PM •••

Yeah, it's a legit quote from the new trailer that came out today.

Apr 16th 2015 at 12:43:40 PM •••

I think it works better because it highlights the whole Passing the Torch theme that's apparently going to run through the new trilogy. The old quote was basically Vagueness Is Coming and didn't really add anything to the page.

Apr 16th 2015 at 1:07:32 PM •••

Well, the entry for Vagueness Is Coming needs to be edited, at the very least.

Apr 16th 2015 at 4:08:47 PM •••

Seems to be general agreement that quote is okay now that it is confirmed to be from new teaser. Will re-add, edit entries with positional comparatives.

Edited by ashlay
Apr 17th 2015 at 12:43:29 AM •••

He DOES say it in ROTJ, just later in the conversation. "You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time, you'll learn to use it as I have."

Apr 17th 2015 at 3:23:53 AM •••

I have reservations about using it as the page quote since it's just rearranged audio from ROTJ. Yeah, the "awakening" one is the weaker quote because it's vague, but it's definitely brand new.

Here's the original scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYX_PgorRY

"You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it, and... my sister has it. Yes. It's you, Leia."

If they had Mark Hamill say it again, I'd be fine with it. But you can tell it's all old audio because of "my father has it". If it was newly recorded, they'd have him say "my father had it".

Edited by fusilcontrafusil
Apr 17th 2015 at 7:28:45 AM •••

Who cares if it's reused audio? They wouldn't use it in the trailer if it didn't thematically make sense/ hint at the film's plot. I mean, the implications of using that specific quote in the new trailer are huge. I say we use it, since it's definitely a better quote.

Apr 17th 2015 at 8:05:53 AM •••

I lean more towards the original quote, myself. A line from ROTJ that we assume is relevant but don't know exactly how isn't too reassuring.

Apr 17th 2015 at 9:10:57 AM •••

Honestly, why the heck not? It's clearly been carefully included in the trailer for a specific reason.

Apr 17th 2015 at 10:11:52 AM •••

We could go with "Chewie... we're home.", or would that be a spoiler?

Apr 17th 2015 at 12:21:30 PM •••

Seems more appropriate as a Stinger, rather than a quote.

Apr 21st 2015 at 6:03:45 AM •••

FYI: Took it to the Quote Thread to discuss it there. The loose consensus was to go with the original quote. If you'd like to discuss it further, that's the place.

Apr 21st 2015 at 8:38:12 AM •••

Troper who originally posted the ROTJ trailer quote here. After thinking about it some more, it's probably best we go with the original quote. If the trope pages for the other films are any indication, it's just going to end up being replaced by the text from the opening crawl once that gets revealed.

Dec 19th 2015 at 4:52:01 AM •••

I nominate "Why Are You Helping Me?" "Because It's The Right Thing To Do." for Page Quote.

Dec 19th 2015 at 2:11:33 PM •••

For the above, may I suggest adding the rest of this particular exchange, which is "You need a pilot, don't you?" "Yeah, I need a pilot."?

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