NATTER ALERT!

From Tales of Symphonia:

• Deconstructor Fleet:
  • Pretty much every main character, including the Big Bad, is a Deconstruction of a standard RPG character archetype. It's particularly savage towards the idea of The Chosen One and just what self-esteem issues a Messianic Archetype could potentially end up with. It tears into the Determinator and Idiot Hero tropes too.
  • Just to clarify a bit, being a stubborn idiot may have been the only thing that kept Lloyd going when a smarter person of the same upbringing would have been done, and his unflinching idealism lead to a major Heroic BSoD or two when he learned what was actually going on.

We just deleted the second bullet entirely as a stopgap, but these could probably be combined more elegantly by someone else who actually understands what a "deconstruction" really is.

Bringing this up from Network Decay's Slipped subpage. This features a fair bit of run-on natter, plus some pretty complainy and snarky language.

• The Lifetime Movie Network (now known more by their catchy initials, LMN) used to exist to air nothing but Lifetime Movies of the Week, which also included TV movies that aired on the Big Three networks. With the broadcast networks completely ditching TV movies outside of Jesse Stone, the Hallmark Hall of Fame and the Walmart/Proctor & Gamble films which have to get on TV as if they were paying for an Infomercial, and their mother channel's new A&E ownership deciding to invest more in reality shows and Ripped from the Headlines TV movies which will age horribly in only a couple years, LMN began to air Hollywood films that fit the channel's focus group, shifting away from the Damsel in Distress rut it was in for many years. However, in line with the speedier Hollywood release cycles, even this move didn't help maintain the ratings.
  • In the summer of 2013 LMN began a quick slide towards decay from their format; Sunday nights were filled with 'dramatized murder' programming, in an attempt to be more like Investigation Discovery. and a Saturday block of repurposed Bio ghost story shows.The murder doc programming is cheaper to make, doesn't involve writers or celebrities or unions, and is certainly faster to watch.
  • Lifetime Original Movies produced for the network, while still being fairly diverse fare aimed primarily at housewives, have let their thriller series fall into a very tight formula. For a good while, every movie was called The Perfect ______, where the blank is either the victim if the antagonist is obvious or the villain if they can pretend to be normal for the first 15 or so minutes. The stories always played out the same way, ending with the antagonist threatening to kill themselves, the object of their obsession, the "competition", or some combination. The predictability of it was a selling point to some, though.

This is on The Parent Trap (1998) under Alternate Character Interpretation (relevant part bolded):

• The "11 years and 9 months later" caption gives the implication that Elizabeth got pregnant very quickly after meeting Nick - suggesting that may have been the reason they got married in the first place. The odd thing is that "about 12 years" would've served the purpose equally well. It's not like Annie and Hallie remark that they just barely turned 11 when they meet at camp anyway, they've been 11 for at least a few months.

That feels less like natter and more like pointless whining, either way it can be cut.

This is on Designated Monkey:

• In Warhammer 40,000 the Dark Angels Space Marine Chapter are atoning for an ancient sin committed by half their brethren 10,000 years ago. In order to pursue the surviving perpetrators of this crime, they often abandon their main mission and leave other Imperial forces to be destroyed. This is considered highly suspicious behaviour and treated as a serious problem in the background material. However, almost every other Space Marine Chapter treats normal humans with total contempt too and displays signs of deviance and autonomy that are tolerated only because The Imperium aren't in a position to do anything about it. It's not clear what makes the Dark Angels' relatively minor disobedience so awful.
  • Could be Deliberate Values Dissonance in action. The "ancient sin committed by half their brethren" was to betray the Emperor and almost destroy the Legion (not yet separated into Chapters) in their own civil war while the Imperium as a whole was being torn apart by the Horus Heresy. Considering the other Legions that did so were declared heretics with orders to kill on sight, the Dark Angels justifiably fear that if the knowledge of so many of the Legion being traitors was to become widely known, they would suffer the same fate, and so their efforts to eliminate the remnants of those traitors results in erratic, unexplained behavior that makes them appear suspicious; other Space Marines Chapters follow their own agendas, but at least they're relatively open about what they're doing.
  • It is also important to note that Dark Angels and their successors are killing Inquisitors investigating their chapter without a second thought and at least on one occasion, they destroyed Black Templar vessel that came into contact with Fallen. Their Unforgiven backstory also indicates that Dark Angels Chapter Master effectively holds a legion's worth of military power in his hands. ^note Which is ten-to-twenty times more than the largest Loyalist chapters and roughly a hundred times more than a codex-compliant chapter. Dark Angels chapter itself is also at above-codex strength. And they have access to incredibly powerful plasma technology they are unwilling to share with anyone in the Imperium. Fandom rightfully calls them Closet Heretics.^note As opposed to Alpha Legion Close loyalist tendencies.

Aside from natter, I'm not sure it belongs there. They are not butt-monkeys, in that their suffering isn't played for laughs. It seems to be complaining of an in-universe double standard, that the natter explains away. There may be a better place to put this, but I'd like to know if this explanation is fan speculation or not.

At YMMV.I Feel Sick

• Jerkass Woobie: Yes, Devi is being mentally assaulted by a parasite her murderer once-date accidentally gave her. Yes, she is under a lot of stress. Yes, she is often an utter bitch to her best friend, laughs with her at the idea of some random dude setting himself on fire, throws a little girl and stomps a cat to death, and spams F-bombs. Read the comic and there's more! What. The. Fuck.

Should it be cut entirely or it can be rephrased? I don't know the work.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:07:32 PM

That's not really natter, I'm not sure I actually see what the problem is.

Is it not? The entire example is written like a conversarion with irrelecant intesifiers.

I mean, it's poorly written but it's not written like a conversation, it's essentially saying "yes, she's a woobie but yes, she's a jerk".

It's written very badly. Those "yes"s can go, and those last two sentences can also be cut. It gives both too much detail and not enough at the same time.

Definitely needs a rewrite.

It feels like it's intended to be an Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry.

I mean, it does hit the Jerkass Woobie points, just in a very unhelpfully written way.

I'm not disputing it's a bad entry — I'm just disputing that it's a nattery one.

Bringing up this snark-riddled mess from Money, Dear Boy. It really needs to be condensed into one sentence (plus there's an unneeded quote from an obscure online reviewer)

• Joan Crawford, for much of her life, was an in-demand actress who reigned at the box office. However, after she got fired from Hush... Hush, Sweet Charlotte, originally intended to be the Spiritual Successor to Whatever Happened To Baby Jane, no one can deny that her film choices later in life were less motivated by the need for fame and more influenced by cold, hard cash (which was apparently caused by her star power fading and her being ousted from the board of Pepsi, formerly run by her deceased husband). This would explain why she went from dramatic leading roles to scenery-chewing in various cheap horror films produced by William Castle or Herman Cohen, as well as appearances in several short-lived television series — although she did also appear in the most guest-star laden episode of The Man from U.N.C.L.E. ("The Five Daughters Affair").
  • This Woman Is Dangerous she only did because her house had a mortgage and her children were in school. She later disowned it.
  • In the latter part of her career she starred in a string of B-horror movies because she needed the money, lamenting that they were a far cry from the days when she made thousands a week as an in-demand actress. As Neil Deagle of Bad Movie Night explained about Trog (her final film), "It's really sad to see such a huge star (like her) be consigned to the Z-grade abyss of films like this. But, hey, a girl's gotta eat."
  • Though often cited as Crawford's lowest moment as an actor, Trog is in some ways an inversion: the director was a personal friend of hers and she did the movie more as a favor to him than in need of a paycheck. She was paid very well for the movie too, and a good portion of the budget was spent to ensure she had her own wardrobe van.

Edited by DongwaChan on Aug 6th 2023 at 3:09:26 PM

I'm a bit confused on which subpages Natter is allowed on and which it's not. Conversation in the Main Page mentions it's allowed on Headscratchers but not if that's the ONLY page it's allowed on and I can't find a quick answer at the moment.

Not a lot, but a few parts on Pikmin 4's Fridge page seem to be natter:

• The "Albino Dwarf Bulborb" is a true Bulborb juvenile and looks like a proper intermediate between the Bulborb Larva and the adult Red Bulborb. But why is it called an "albino?" And more importantly, why do adult Bulborbs protect the Breadbug mimics if they look different from true juvenile Bulborbs?
  • The Piklopedia already explains that this is just their first molt, and they'll gain their actual colors on the second molt. The Breadbug Mimics specifically mimic that stage. As for why they're called "Albino", it's because it hasn't gained any of its colors yet, leaving it in pale colors.
• The raw materials are said to be an "amber-like substance", and can be crafted into clay, building materials, weapons and...dog treats? Is this raw material somehow edible?
  • Yes. Amber is specifically fossilized tree resin, and there are multiple types of tree resin that are edible, not to mention other organic compounds like wax that are both used as a crafting material and as ingredients in food.
• Moss was found by Olimar already resident to PNF-404, but refers to her as a "strange creature", implying he is unfamiliar with her species. Meanwhile Oatchi is of a species that the Rescue Corps have trained for many generations. Are Oatchi and Moss even the same species?
  • Oatchi is from the planet Giya, which could easily be located a long distance from Hocotate. It's entirely possible that his species simply doesn't live there and Olimar isn't super familiar with every creature in the entire universe. Also, the Ancient Sirehound's description in the Piklopedia almost confirms that Oatchi and Moss are the same species, and they both descend from the same PNF-404-native species.

Edited by INever on Aug 8th 2023 at 11:40:54 AM

My policy is that if Fridge Logic entries get explanations, I move the whole thing to Headscratchers. (The difference between the two is one that has long eluded definition.)

Bringing up this snark-riddled mess from Money, Dear Boy. It really needs to be condensed into one sentence (plus there's an unneeded quote from an obscure online reviewer)

• Joan Crawford, for much of her life, was an in-demand actress who reigned at the box office. However, after she got fired from Hush... Hush, Sweet Charlotte, originally intended to be the Spiritual Successor to Whatever Happened To Baby Jane, no one can deny that her film choices later in life were less motivated by the need for fame and more influenced by cold, hard cash (which was apparently caused by her star power fading and her being ousted from the board of Pepsi, formerly run by her deceased husband). This would explain why she went from dramatic leading roles to scenery-chewing in various cheap horror films produced by William Castle or Herman Cohen, as well as appearances in several short-lived television series — although she did also appear in the most guest-star laden episode of The Man from U.N.C.L.E. ("The Five Daughters Affair").
  • This Woman Is Dangerous she only did because her house had a mortgage and her children were in school. She later disowned it.
  • In the latter part of her career she starred in a string of B-horror movies because she needed the money, lamenting that they were a far cry from the days when she made thousands a week as an in-demand actress. As Neil Deagle of Bad Movie Night explained about Trog (her final film), "It's really sad to see such a huge star (like her) be consigned to the Z-grade abyss of films like this. But, hey, a girl's gotta eat."
  • Though often cited as Crawford's lowest moment as an actor, Trog is in some ways an inversion: the director was a personal friend of hers and she did the movie more as a favor to him than in need of a paycheck. She was paid very well for the movie too, and a good portion of the budget was spent to ensure she had her own wardrobe van.

I don't see any reason to keep those subbullets, tbh.

Found this on Characters.Jujutsu Kaisen Cursed Spirits And Curse Users (Toji Fushiguro; bolded) which I'm unsure is natter.

• Baritone of Strength: He's one of the strongest characters in the series, being the first person to defeat Gojo onscreen (granted it was while the latter was still a student who hadn't unlocked his full potential yet), with Takehito Koyasu giving him a suitably deep voice.

The main paragraph could be condensed to something like:

• Joan Crawford, for much of her life, was an in-demand actress who reigned at the box office. However, after she got fired from Hush... Hush, Sweet Charlotte, it seems that she found her star power fading and she was ousted from the board of Pepsi, formerly run by her deceased husband, she needed money more than anything. She went from dramatic leading roles to appearing in various B-grade horror films produced by William Castle or Herman Cohen, as well as appearances in several short-lived television series. In particular, she only did the film This Woman Is Dangerous because her house had a mortgage and her children were in school.

Bringing this up from the Real Life subpage for Worst News Judgement Ever. Not only does it have a snarky and bashy tone on top of the natter, but it also includes a very needless Have I Got News for You quote.

• The UK's Daily Star often prioritises gossip over news, and as such runs into this quite a lot. Most notably, the UN sanctioning action in Libya was relegated to page nine, after a model's tits, coverage on the personal life of Katie Price, whose last action of note was in 2004, and Comic Relief. The front page didn't even mention Libya. At the same time, its stablemate, the Daily Express, was more concerned with petrol prices than covering the actual conflict.
  • The Daily Express is notorious for finding any excuse to put stories about Princess Diana on the cover (especially conspiracy theories about her death), which has earned the paper the nicknames Diana Express, Di'ly Express and Daily Ex-Princess. When other papers were reporting Saddam Hussein's death sentence, the Express ran with: SPIES COVER UP DIANA 'MURDER'. In 2007 this was temporarily replaced by the Madeleine McCann kidnap story, which the Express ran on one hundred consecutive front pages.
    • "The Chicago Tribune's headline read "Dewey Defeats Truman", but due to the time difference, Britain's Daily Telegraph had "Truman Defeats Dewey"; the Times had "Truman Defeats Dewey"; and the Daily Express went with "Princess Diana To Be Born In Twelve Years' Time.""

Edited by DongwaChan on Aug 15th 2023 at 5:35:58 AM

Before doing any cleanup, I would like to ask if we should have that section at all.

This Watched It for the Representation entry is 5% describing the audience reaction and 95% rattling off every single way the movie is diverse. Any suggestions on how to balance the two?

• Turning Red was praised for its many different types of groundbreaking representation both on and off the screen. It is the first Pixar film to have an Asian lead character^note unless you count Russell in Up, the first to be directed by an Asian woman, the first directed solely by a woman and the first to have an all-female creative leadership team. It is Pixar's first diabetic representation, and its first feature-length film set in Canada. The main characters are all female and represent Chinese, South Asian, Korean, and (likely) Jewish ethnicities. Other characters are Black, multiracial, Vietnamese, Caribbean, and Polish. Background characters include Muslims and Sikhs. Languages spoken in the film include French, Cantonese, and Korean in addition to English. There are background characters in wheelchairs and several characters wear glasses. There are main and supporting characters strongly implied to be bisexual or gay. All of the characters have realistic varied body shapes. In addition to all that, the film serves as a rare opportunity to see Toronto portrayed on film as itself and not someplace else.

I'm pretty sure the most important representation that lured people in was the Asian-Canadian tween girl representation, and maybe the Ambiguously Bi moment with Priya. The other diverse characters aren't given as much weight as those identities are, and I don't think anybody watched the film for the extremely brief background disability rep, or because someone wore glasses (which isn't uncommon for background characters in a Disney film at all).

The link in this entry from YMMV.Not For Broadcast is a bit natter-y, how can I incorporate it into the spoilered part?

• Signature Scene: Many players will note that the second half of Day 296 is the most memorable scene of all, and quite an accomplishment, especially if you've played the path of Disrupt. Warning: This video contains spoilers and some content that may be deemed as disturbing, such as pointing guns at people and the Driven to Suicide trope.

I wouldn't call it nattery so much as a very wordy ZCE.