Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Wait, did we agree to lock DC Animation? I got chastised, but soneone else requested it.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Well, nobody else has commented.

The Black Wolf does indeed have moral agency, as do all the other wolves. He comes up with the plan to get him and his wo9lf pack (well mostly him) all the food they can eat.

It's been years since I have seen Back at the Barnyard, but I do remember it being Darker then the show, however I think Dag could possibly fall into Blue and Orange Morality since all coyotees are meat eaters. If I remember correctly he does mock Otis about his dad's death.

jjj

Well I can do a write up for Joker from the Dark Knight Returns movie, which might be nice to add before locking the page.

edited 28th Dec '13 12:18:41 AM by TheOverlord

I put a post saying to hold off on locking DC Animation for now. Weren't there a few others besides that Joker one?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Re: Helena Cain: I think that's explained by the fact that she doesn't see them as "her" people. It's pretty clear that she has utter contempt for civilian government and needs while they're at war with the Cylons, so they're expendable in her eyes. It's her own soldiers whom she is shown to care for multiple times. The conscripts were only a small portion of them as well — most were already military from the beginning. Rewatching Razor, I'll concede the execution of the XO was out of line, since she essentially went back on her earlier word.

It's the aborted assassination that's the most puzzling, really. Cain had every opportunity to kill Adama and take control of the entire Fleet, yet she chose not to. There's no way to explain that through some ulterior motive. So we've got a solid Freudian Excuse (losing her father and sister to Cylons), a quest for revenge partly motivated by a need to avenge her fallen men, and a situation where she consciously chose not to take the evil option even though she had nothing to gain from it. She falls short of CM-credentials, I think.

edited 28th Dec '13 4:07:57 AM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"

Regarding the Goosebumps examples, I don't think Slappy or Mr. Toggle qualify. While Slappy's actions are repulsive, he's never really accomplished anything, and he's way too goofy to take seriously. Also, Mr. Toggle seems to be more delusional than outright sadistic.

Here are some examples I think should be put down:

• Mr. Chameleon, the unseen school photographer from "The Haunted School." He banishes a class of innocent children to a nightmarish otherworld out of spite, and the ending implies he's going to do it again with the new children.
• The evil uncle from "A night in Terror Tower." He also isn't seen, but it's revealed that he murdered Eddie and Susannah's parents so he could steal the throne, then tried to do the same with them. He also plunges his kingdom into squalor and poverty, and forces the wizard Morgred to work for him under threat of torture.
• Micah Brill from "Revenge R Us" is the most loathsome sibling in the entire series. Too elaborate, he spends the entire book emotionally and physically abusing the protagonist, his younger sister. His bullying is so bad that she goes to a witch to help get revenge. What really cements him as a monster is the realization that he paid off said witch to direct every spell the girl made against herself, thus he set all of this up to ruin her life for fun.

"I am the lord of Purity, who tolerates no deviation." My first online story

Again, I have to disagree on Dag. It's been shown that he has sadistic tendencies, thus throwing him out of the Blue-and-Orange Morality. Slappy, again, tries putting the main character's against them, and he's shown being muyrderous, even though thankfully he's stopped from killing anyone. With Mr. Toggle, I'm pretty sure he has moral agency and is not delusional.

Okay I will try to do a write up for Joker from the Dark Knight Returns:

• Age has not dulled the Joker's Ax-Crazy tendencies in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. Joker was catatonic for a decade until Batman returned, which snapped him out of it and resulted in Joker going on a massive killing spree. Joker kills his therapist with a broken coffee mug and then kills a studio audience at a talk show with poisonous gas. He then tries to sell poisoned cotton candy to kids at an amusement park. After Batman foils that scheme, Joker takes a gun and begins to shoot random civilians at the amusement park. After Batman defeats Joker in combat, Joker commits suicide and attempts to frame Batman for his death.

Does anyone have any more opinions Jev from Star Trek The Next Generation? I just watched the episode with him in it again and it seems like, at first, he was hesitant to Mind Rape counselor Troi a second time, but I wasn't sure if he was doing that because he cared about Troi's well being or because he didn't want to caught red handed after framing his father. He still went through with it and attempted to mind rape her again.

Also I going to say no to Admiral Cain.

edited 28th Dec '13 9:44:02 AM by TheOverlord

Seems good, at least for starters. BTW, is Monster: Western Animation ready to be swapped? We can maybe take care of that and DC at the same time.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Slappy isn't really that goofy, not in the original books. He's a flat out sadist, attempted murderer and potential rapist. And 'delusional' doesn't disqualify you.

1. Mr. Chameleon never appears. We know nothing about him. 2. same for the evil uncle. Heck, a later 'sequel' to terror Tower indicates he's been warped into evil by a magic gem around his throat and when it's removed he goes to being a good guy. 3. Micah doesn't begin to matchup in heinousness to the murderers, monsters and other nasties. He's the nastiest kid in the books, but that's it.

Well, I'll go with a cut for Helena Cain now

Regarding Flashpoint, its been a year or two since I read that series, but I can offer an opinion or two:

Reverse Flash likely counts for the same reason he counts in the animated adaption of the comic, he has actively preventing Barry from undoing the damage he accidentally caused and in the comics, Reverse Flash was responsible for Barry's mother's death, so he bares more responsibility for the world being in a ruinous state.

Heat Wave may count, because he was a vicious and cruel thug, who fought dirty to win (got into a fight with another inmate and won biting off his nose), betrayed everyone who trusted him and attempted to destroy a city simply spite Cyborg for arresting him.

Grodd may count, but may be hampered by most of his actions being Off Stage Villainy. Grodd committed genocide in Africa, but we never see any of that, that happened before the story started. He killed an another ape who admired him in a fit of blood lust, but he still seems to overshadowed by other villains in the series, unless I missed a tie in that gave more context to his actions.

I think Lionel Luthor is overshadowed by other villains in that story, sure he pushed his son Lex in front a rapid Kryptonian dog to save his own life, but that's all he did through out the entire series, he didn't do anything else of note, there are other villains with bigger rap sheets that over take him.

edited 28th Dec '13 10:33:05 AM by TheOverlord

Seems like Reverse Flash and MAYBE Heat Wave are the only ones.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

So for cutting Helena Cain we have Morgenthaler, Lightsnake, The Overlord and myself. That looks like a cut.

Here's the current writeup for Cavil, it needs work.

• Brother Cavil. Made worse by the fact that he was introduced as an Affably Evil, Deadpan Snarker type. That was before we find out that he's the mastermind behind the human genocide, as well as a majority of the other bad things on the show. All because he was unhappy with the body he was made in. We later find out that Cavil murdered a young orphan boy just because they were becoming friends. And if you forget the genocide, using a Scarpia Ultimatum to rape his own mother after having his father tortured and mutilated probably would qualify him for this page on its own.

Yeah cut Helena Cain.

On Fan Works, this entry is a cut:

• The Firefly fanfiction Forward has Inducer One-One-Nine, aka Kathryn Wade, a prime example of how subjective this trope is. She's undoubtedly sociopathically violent, with brutal Mind Rape and mass murder as her first resorts, and she's killed no fewer than a thousand people. However, she is also a definite Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds given the horrors she's suffered and being only nine years old, leaving reviewers torn between loathing her and pitying her.

Kathryn Wade needs to go. She's a mentally unstable little girl and right before she dies, she realizes what she did was wrong: —>"It was wrong," Kathryn said, and Zoe saw tears forming in her eyes. "It was wrong, wasn't it?" —>"Yes," Zoe murmured. "It was." —>"I'm sorry," Kathryn said. It came out as a hoarse whisper. "I'm sorry I hurt . . . everyone. Tell . . . ."

The YMMV page has some other better entries:

• Complete Monster: Niska becomes an even more extreme one when he orders his men to rape River, as a "favor" since she is about to "die a virgin".
  • Lt. Womack, already a corrupt scumbag in the series, turns plain vicious in Silver, where he cold-bloodedly murders most of his associates and suppliers to eliminate the evidence of his organ smuggling operation, and then forces Mal to destroy the last remaining lab rather than risk himself.
    • And at the end of the arc, Womack kills one of his own men in cold blood so he can escape from his crashing ship. Fun guy.
  • The "Mongol" of the Six Rifles. He tortures a man he's been sent to kill with a bit of Dissonant Serenity, and at least one other member of the Six contemplates having to kill him eventually if he goes out of control. Later on, when he captures the young Jayne in a flashback, he goes onto a lengthy monologue about torture, where he offhandedly mentions that he is also a rapist and talks about how much he loves inflicting terror on his victims.

Having been PM'd about one of my fanworks, Futari wa Pretty Cure Dragon, concerning the CM status of two characters, I'll try to analyze them as best as I can remember from what I wrote.

Now that I think about it, Fredo Black may actually be more out of his mind than anything. I think he just left his mind in Chicago.

• He's a sadistic, crazy, and Politically Incorrect Villain who comes from Chicago and pretends to be a stereotypical Mexican just to get on everyone else's nerves. Even his Faux Affably Evil act is just that—an act. At the end of his tenure on the series, he undergoes a Villainous Breakdown in response to a You Have Failed Me threat (which, given who he is and how many times he's tried and failed to defeat Pretty Cure in the past, is wholly understandable), and he kidnaps Cure Fortune and tries to kill both her and Cure Dragon separately.
• Even his own boss seems sick of him and, by his last episode, is all ready to give him the You Have Failed Me treatment. The Big Bad's robotic servants also don't enjoy his company.
• He doesn't seem to have an excuse for what he does, and no excuse is given in-story at all.
• He has zero regret for his misdeeds, and he shows zero remorse. The only respect he has is for himself and for art, and even that's not saying much.
• He doesn't get one chance to redeem himself, and in fact meets his end in flames, literally.

Probably a CM, but even I'm not certain. At the very least, I intended for him to be irredeemable.

As for Boss Yamamoto, we don't see much of him, but he shows how detestable he is even among the rest of the Yakuza in the one scene in which he appears.

• He shows himself to be a bigot against Europeans and women (even going so far as to use a certain slur), and he especially shows contempt towards those who are half-and-half. He also overreacts violently to the smallest word against him and threatens to kill the offender's family.
• The entire Yakuza council seems very wary of him, and the leader of the council, who doesn't appreciate his bigotry, beheads and castrates him for directing the aforementioned slur at her, a slur that came at the tail end of a racist insult to her being half-French.
• No excuse is given for his actions in-story.
• He shows no regret for his actions and is Defiant to the End. He's also clearly remorseless for his violent streak and bigotry.
• His last words are contempt towards half-European women. He gets beheaded and castrated directly after.

Yeah, he's most likely a CM—and a very bigoted one, at that. Who knows what else he got up to before he appeared in the series, but I'm pretty sure he's the most depraved Yakuza to ever appear in-story.

edited 28th Dec '13 4:33:49 PM by ryanasaurus0077

You forgot to say the name of the work. It's Futari wa Pretty Cure Dragon.

Oh! Thanks for reminding me.

Thanks very much for coming here. I'll give a yea to those, particularly the second

Rewrite time.

From YMMV.Kongoh Bancho

• Complete Monster: Gedou Bancho, not only does he try to have Yuu's family killed via explosion and poison if one escaped, but he tortured them while disguised as their big brother.
  • He also kills Medicine Bancho's family for daring to not equip him with metal plates in six hours

Kongoh Bancho is a series about a World of Badass Japan where the mightiest Bancho fight to attain supremacy over Japan. The hero, Akira Kongoh is there to dismantle the project, with a team of fellow Bancho allies. Most of the villains in series aren't really bad people. Most have codes and honor. Even the Big Bad is honorable and just needs to get his skull beaten in to see the error of his ways.

The Gedo (heresy) Bancho is not. His real name is Mudo Gou and he's one of the main villain's top 4 enforcers. One of Akira's friends is fighting for the sake of a group of orphans he considers his own family. Most of the villains are of the Wouldn't Hurt a Child variety. Mudou Gou, despite only appearing for a few chapters, manages to: Disguise himself as said 'big brother' and torture and beat the kids, poisons them fatally and then tries to blow them up. When he loses the fight against Yuu, he takes one orphan hostage with a knife to his neck (thankfully, Yuu is on the Batman level of Crazy-Prepared and out gambits him on all fronts).

So yeah, the guy is basically the most evil in the story and none of the other villains come close to that level of horrible.

• Mudou Gou, or the Gedou (Heresy) Bancho of Kongoh Bancho sticks in a series full of honorable and sometimes heroic villains. When one of the Five-Man Band, Yuu, arrives to see the orphans he considers his own family, we see in flashbacks that Gou tortured and beat the orphans while disguised as Yuu and arranged them to spell out the Kanji for 'Heresy.' When he fights Yuu, Gou reveals he gave all the kids fatal doses of poison just to throw Yuu's game off, and even activates a bomb in the orphanage to blow them all up. He then mocks Yuu about him having to watch the final one with Yuu die slow of the poison. when Yuu reveals he planned ahead for poison and explosions, Gou shows his lack of honor by taking one orphan hostage with a knife to his throat. Despite his brief appearance in the manga, the Gedou Bancho proved himself to be easily the most evil and depraved villain: a fact he acknowledges with his Catchphrase being to ask "Aren't I the lowest?"

YMMV.Kodoku Experiment

It's a ZCE, so I'll rewrite

• Camilla Baruges of the Sci-Fi horror manga Kodoku Experiment begins the series sending a group of soldiers to die on Deronga Five Alpha for 'research.' Twenty years later, she leads an expedition back to witness the end of the planet, only for the last remnants of one of the soldiers she betrayed to infect the ship. As things get worse, Baruges reveals her ambitions: she kills all her commanding officers with preparations she had made beforehand, slaughters anyone who objects and reveals she is responsible for the infectious lifeform plaguing the ship with full intent to spread it throughout human space to ensure survival only of the fittest. Even when she learns one of the soldiers resisting her is her son due to the donation of her DNA, she has no problem trying to kill him.

And last from YMMV.Kurohime

• Complete Monster: Yashahime again, so much so that in one of his better moods, Darkray specifically warned the Death Angels not to get on her bad side. Nice to know even HE had standards.

another ZCE, so here's a rewrite. I'll let her crimes speak for themselves

• Yashahime, the true Big Bad of Kurohime is one of the most powerful Gods and the most evil and insane. Initially a Stalker with a Crush for the God of Death Darkray, after his defeat, Yashahime find Darkray's soul and despite being capable of saving him, destroys him out of disgust. She proceeds to brainwash Kurohime's beloved Zero into the new Death God and relishes using him to destroy Kurohime. Yashahime later brutally attempts to murder Kurohime by slicing her to ribbons and when this is undone, she steals the power of the god of earth by merging with the planet, aiming to devour and sacrifice the lives of all surviving humans to free herself to go on and devour every planet that exists so she can reign over the universe. When Zero rejects her wishes to rule at her side, she remorselessly tries to kill him as well.

And here are my next proposals...

Tyler from Heavy Metal 2000 Who Is He?

Tyler's an insane and sadistic mercenary voiced by Michael Ironside who discovers an Artifact of Doom and becomes obsessed with immortality. To this end, he hunts down beings who are 'special'. He starts by obliterating a civilian settlement and kills everyone there, except one young woman he takes as a hostage. He uses captives to make a serum for immortality as well-not a nice process.

What Does He do?

Besides the aforementioned massacre, Tyler sexually assaults his captive Kerrie and when her sister Julie tracks Tyler down, she finds Tyler trying to rape a waitress. She proceeds to kill him full of holes (he survives thanks to the immortality serum). He later tries to rape Kerrie and make more serum from her. Oh, and he finds a group of lizard men to use for his army and kills the leader to take control, and kills his number 2 when the guy gets injured and tries to get Tyler's last serum.

And he blows up a bar full of people for no real reason save amusement.

I should note he breaches the heinous standard in the film, as the only other Big Bad is there for a few minutes and doesn't achieve anything. The Artifact of Doom doesn't do much beyond give him a lust for immortality, either. He's just as nasty before he finds it.

Next... King Cromwell.

Who Is he And what's he done?

The Big Bad from The Sword and the Sorcerer, a Swords and Sorcery classic. Cromwell starts off by killing the hero Prince Talon's father and later murders his mother as well. Decades later, Cromwell';s looking to expand. Oh, and to achieve his victory over talon's family, he resurrected the evil sorcerer Xusia- and tried to eliminate him when Xusia had done the job. Cromwell tries to take over another kingdom and blackmail its princess into sleeping with him by threatening the lives of her loved ones.

Oh, and when he catches Talon, he has him taken to a banquet where Cromwell's about to assassinate its royal guests to take over their homes. And he has Talon crucified as evening entertainment.

So yeah, no Freudian Excuse unless you count envy and greed. And Xusia is there, having survived his murder attempt, but...well, Cromwell does way more while Xusia's there briefly and a pretty basic evil sorcerer

edited 28th Dec '13 5:41:15 PM by Lightysnake

On the DC Animation page's entry for The Joker from Batman The Animated Series, it says that he's "the only supervillain from Batman’s Rogues Gallery who possesses no sympathetic or redeeming qualities whatsoever", but Arkady Duvall is also listed as an example.

Arkady Duvall technically isn't a member of Batman's Rogues Gallery

Oh, never mind then.

If no one has any objections, I can do a write up for Jev from Star Trek The Next Generation.

If no problems, I'll request a lock for DC Animation today around noon eastern time (around 4 1/2 hours from now).

EDIT: Oh, and this was added to Empowered: Sistah Spooky's Infernal Service Provider manages this quite efficiently in Volume 8. He's a demon, so you expect this kind of behavior, but he really goes all out with it.The whole second half of the volume makes it clear just what an unholy shit he is. Petty, greedy, and willing to cross every line there is to get what he wants, just for spite if nothing else.

edited 29th Dec '13 4:31:31 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Re: Battlestar Galactica: Ok, so Cain is a cut then. And yeah, Cavil's write-up really leaves out most of his character arc. Here's an improved version.

• (John) Cavil aka Number One is the de facto leader of the Cylons and the first model of the Significant Eight made by the Final Five, the progenitors of the race. He proves to be a hateful being angered by his creators' decision to give him a human body. He murders his brother Daniel out of jealousy, wiping out the entire line. He wipes the minds of his five parents and reprograms his siblings to forget about them. Then he puts the Final Five on human worlds to witness the genocide he initiates against the Twelve Colonies and hunts down the surviving humans to spite them and to make them realize they should love him as the "prince of the universe" he fancies himself as. Despite professing to want revenge for the humans' enslavement of the Centurions, he promptly does the same thing. He uses a Scarpia Ultimatum to rape his mother and tortures and mutilates his father. During his time in the human fleet Cavil also murdered a young orphan boy just because they were becoming friends, and at the end of the series tries to dissect little Hera Agathon to uncover the secret to Cylon procreation. He permanently boxes the Threes over the other Cylons' objections. When half of his brethren break with him over his enslavement of the Centurions and Raiders, he promptly wipes out the Sixes, Twos, and Eights, leaving only a handful alive. While John claims he wants to be a robot more than anything, he wilfully succumbs to the lowest human instincts he so hates: vengeance, lust, and sadism.

I'll say yes to Jev and Crownwell, but no to Tyler for now because his moral agency is really questionable. We barely see anything of him before he finds the Artifact of Doom, but he seemed fairly normal. It's not until he touches it that he becomes an Ax-Crazy lunatic and starts killing and raping everyone around him. Is there some scene in the movie where they went on about what a bastard he was before he found it?

Here's some undiscussed examples from YMMV:

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From Las Vegas:

• Complete Monster: Season 4's Vince Peterson is a billionaire gambler who asks Sam to marry him and sweetens the deal by agreeing to buy the Montecito...before drugging her, tying her up, kidnapping her and attempting to rape her. And he takes way too much pleasure in letting Sam know that she isn't even close to the first woman he's done this to.

Leaning towards keep, although it could use a despoilering (shown here without). Murderers were actually quite rare for this show — most of the criminals were thieves or con artists — let alone a rapist serial killer.

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From The Spoony Experiment:

• Complete Monster: Black Lantern Spoony qualifies for this trope, as of the Final Fantasy X review. Not only does he murder Spencer in cold blood, but he attempts to kill Insano and Clone!Spoony at last.
  • The regular Spoony is already a multiple rapist (the Spooning With Spoony series) who murdered a number of prostitutes because the voices in his head tell him too (frequently referenced, made explicit in the Lords of Magik review).
    • The regular Spoony, while an insane killer and rapist, is still sympathetic enough that we don't mind (and can forgive, somewhat) the nastier sides of his personality. Not so with Black Lantern Spoony, who has no sympathetic traits whatsoever.

Cut regular Spoony, who's not even portrayed as a character consistently enough, and what crimes he does have are played for laughs. Leaning towards keep on Black Lantern Spoony.

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From The Real Adventures Of Jonny Quest:

• Complete Monster: Several of the villains qualify, Jeremiah Surd perhaps most of all. Among other things, he prepares to unleash deadly nerve gas on Chicago and smugly compares it to crushing ants while crossing the road, and tries to terminate the Quest team in various horrific ways.

IRRC, Jeremiah Surd (a paraplegic who can only use his body in VR) has a wife he cared for and helped him in his schemes.

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From The Adventures Of Tintin (2011 movie):

• Complete Monster: Red Rackham. He threatens to kill all Sir Francis Haddock's crew unless he tells him where he hid the treasure and even after Haddock shows him he has all the crew feed to sharks anyways.. Also, Sakharine, unlike his comics counterpart, is shown to be more ruthless and greedy, willing to kill anyone who stands on his way in order to obtain the treasure of the Unicorn. Besides, seeing that Rackham is his ancestor, that shouldn't be a surprise.

Tricky, since it's a bit unclear to what extent Sakharine is a reincarnation of Red Rackham rather than just a descendant carrying on his legacy. Red Rackham killing Haddock's crew is the only crime he has to his name, but I don't recall Sakharine ever doing anything beyond standard villainy. Did he even cross the Moral Event Horizon?

edited 29th Dec '13 8:24:46 AM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"