During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mary
Happy Birthday Mir! Your finally able to get drunk legally.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I wish I was living at Alberta, Canada like you. At least you guys have Justin Trudeau, while we have well... getting off topic
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 18th 2019 at 7:11:21 AM
Happy birthday, Mir.
I love living in Alberta.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Mary.
Happy B day Mir!
Things are really about to get Fun around here
to Mary.
Happy Birthday, btw.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yes to Mary and HBD Mir!!! 
The Unknown Unknown
Yes to mary.
Happy 21st, Mir! Now go drink.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Lizzid people!
Mary Quite Contrary
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Hello. The candidate I'm about to discuss involves twists that spoil the entire plot of the series, so if you haven't finished watching the series yet and don't want to know, stop reading now.
What is the work?
Tweeny Witches is a High Fantasy anime about a young girl named Arusu, who finds herself trapped in the Magical Realm, where witches, warlocks, and fairies live. As Atelia arranges for her to live as an apprentice witch, she embraces the local lifestyle, though she always goes against every single custom she finds unacceptable, like capturing fairies as the source of magic and banishing failed witches. During the second half of the series, she discovers the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm, the forbidden dark magic, the legendary magic of light, and the truth behind her Disappeared Dad, Jidan, and the True Book of Spells that he once gave to her.
Who is Grande? What has he done?
The Big Bad of the series, Grande is the leader and general of the warlocks. He continues the government's at least 2-century-long ethnic cleansing campaign against the wizards. Unlike most warlocks that no longer use magic, the wizards are a Dying Race of magic-using warlocks that are forced to live in the barren Miche Village as second-class citizens ever since the foundation of Wizard Kingdom, the technologically-advanced underground capital city of the Warlock Realm.
Before the beginning of the series, Grande conducted an Evil Plan to destroy the Human Realm with dark magic in hopes of making a new home for his species to escape the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm. Dark magic is a forbidden spell that uses The Power of Hate, distrust, and despair to destroy everything. It's implied that more than 14 years ago, his Evil Plan caused the warlocks to steal the True Book of Spells from the Grand Master of Witches, who then ordered Atelia to fight them in Wizard Kingdom alongside the wizards to get it back. One day, he found Jidan, the future father of Lennon and Arusu, trapped in the Magical Realm. He imprisoned Jidan, who just wanted to know the truth behind magic and even pleaded with the warlocks to believe in the innocent human.
At the beginning of "The Warlock Sigma", he introduces himself by basically telling a prophet that dark magic is the only way to save the Magical Realm. When the prophet opposed his Evil Plan and foretold the coming of a savior, Grande had the prophet Swallowed Whole as punishment for disobedience in front of the prophet's young son, Sigma. When Jidan came back to the Magical Realm in search of his son, Lennon, Grande allowed the police to imprison the human again for 6 years.
After a hydra fairy's attack on the Witch Realm, the warlocks discover that all the captive fairies have escaped from the Witch Realm. Grande orders the military to invade the Witch Realm in search of the 100 fairy species, the True Book of Spells, and a witch, all of which they need to cast dark magic. He eventually discovers that Eva is the one capable of dark magic because she has darkness in her heart, particularly inferiority complex about being an inept witch. He shows her a vision of a mysterious old man encouraging her to stay hopeful, helping her Take a Level in Badass to make sure that she will do anything to get her magic back when she will fall to a Mystical Plague that causes its victims to lose access to magic. The Mystical Plague afflict the witches and warlocks as the light of the Sanctuary, the source of all life in the Magical Realm, is fading away.
After the destruction of Wizard Kingdom, he takes over the Witch Realm by siding with the special task force, a villainous Amazon Brigade that have replaced the Grand Master of Witches and the Three Sages as a new government. Long after Eva grows weak from the Mystical Plague, he offers to give her back her magic with the True Book of Spells, which she accepts as his Unwitting Pawn. During her time as the unwilling caster of dark magic, she suffers a Fate Worse than Death as she turns into a monstrous combination of herself and a huge Beast of the Apocalypse made of the 100 fairy species. Before his Uncertain Doom, he becomes mad with the power of dark magic, boasting about how dark magic will spread its darkness to keep the Warlock Realm alive and let him be the ruler of all.
Heinousness?
Every crime he commits is played seriously. He is easily the worst in the story, continuing an ethnic cleansing campaign, attempting a dimensional genocide, imprisoning an innocent human for years, killing his advisor for disobedience in front of the latter's young son, and manipulating a young girl into driving every living thing to despair with the evilest spell. Specifically, his murder of the prophet is the only moment in the series where an authority figure kills their subordinate.
Mitigating factors?
No Freudian Excuse is ever mentioned. He claims to be making a new home for his dying species, but the Grand Finale reveals him to be a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist who only believes Despotism Justifies the Means. He has no qualms about oppressing his magic-using fellow warlocks and killing one of his people for disobedience. He shows no remorse for driving every living thing, including his species, to such despair that the creation of a new home is impossible. He has a full understanding of good enough to manipulate Eva behind the mask of a wise, helpful old man.
Conclusion?
I think he's an easy keeper.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 24th 2019 at 10:04:54 PM
Me: Tweeny Witches? Really-
"Grande is the leader and general of the warlocks. He continues the government's ethnic cleansing campaign against the wizards."
Aaaaand I stand corrected. Yes.
Sounds like an easy keeper. Never judge a book by its cover, sometimes.
Goku Black
Grande
Not the first work to come to mind I guess with an example but uh we've had weirder were somone counted...
Also thanks guys for the birthday wishes.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Easy to Grande.
I mean, being fair, if something like Pretty Cure can pack in so many nasty bad guys? I don't see a remote issue with a work like this making the cut. Villains in magical girl shows can get wicked.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yes to Grande
Eh... I covered some animes with cutesy stuff while having a vile candidates so no issue here
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:56:37 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I took a quick look at His charachter Page, he's listed as a Well-Intentioned Extremist. I'd reocmend cutting that(Still suspended. God I need to work on that) and replacing it with Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist, Casue even without the fact hes coming up here the other Tropes on his page Make it pretty clear he isnt a WIE.
Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 18th 2019 at 10:58:23 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Gentle Laborer
Previous baddies and HBD Mir! I'm back family, and with a candidate. She has been discussed before but i believe she never got properly effort-posted, so here we go.
What is the work? Silent Hill is the first live-action adaptation of the video-game franchise of same name. Sharon Da Silva is a young little girl who has been suffering from sleepwalking incidents involving a mysterious abandoned town called Silent Hill, and to help her find an answer to this problem, her mother Rose Da Silva takes her to the town but oh oh, Rose crashes the car and Sharon goes missing, things only go From Bad to Worse. Our candidate is definately not Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds Alessa or (surprisingly) her mother, but someone who manages to be way worse than the monsters of Silent Hill.
Who is she? The manipulative Christabella (no relations with Christabella LaRoache from the comics) is the scheming sister of Dahlia Gillespie and at the same time her counterpart; Game!Dahlia is an approved CM but here she is a tragic figure who genuinely loved her daughter. An unforgiving fundamentalist, Christabella is both the headmistress of Midwich Elementary School and the leader of her own zealous cult, the witch-hunting Brethren, brainwashing them with the belief that "faith is the only truth". Being the religious extremist that she is, Christabella despised her innocent niece, the nine-year-old Alessa, for the crime of simply being born out of wedlock, condemning her as a witch and encouraging the other students at Midwich Elementary to bully and torment her daily. When Alessa was raped by the school janitor while hiding from the other children, Christabella told her sister that this was Alessa's fault and used the incident as proof that the girl was "filth". Convincing Dahlia that she would "purify" Alessa and restore her innocence, Christabella took Alessa to the Brethren's sacrificial chamber and hung her over a bowl of hot coals, slowly burning her alive; Dahlia realized what her sister was actually doing with Alessa and called the police but it was too late. The ritual failed catastrophically and the fire eventually reached a coal mine beneath the town, causing another massive fire that destroyed part of Silent Hill.
Alessa, suffering from severe burns and filled with nothing but hate, used her powers to trap the Brethren inside the Fog World, where they would be hunted down by monsters as punishment for what they had done to her. Using a church as her base of operations, which was protected from the horrors of Silent Hill by the Brethren's blind faith, Christabella continued to use the Brethren's ignorance to her advantage, blaming Alessa for their situation and using fear to keep her followers under her control. When Rose and her police companion Cybil Bennett arrived at the church after their Tag Along Kid, the Brethren cultist Anna, had been skinned alive by Pyramid Head, Christabella showed how apathetic she is towards her followers by informing Anna's mother that her death was Anna's own fault. After Rose explained her situation to Christabella and how she only wanted to find her missing daughter, Christabella took Rose and Cybil to Brookhaven Hospital, where they could have information from the "demon", but also did not expect them to return to her church. As Christabella was about to return Rose's locket, she saw Sharon's picture and noticed that she was identical to Alessa, calling them witches and quickly ordering his men to brutally beat Cybil while Rose managed to escape.
Believing Sharon to be the demon's spawn, Christabella found her with Dahlia and took them to the church, where she had Cybil burned alive at the stake and was prepared to do the same with Sharon, another innocent child, forcing her sister to watch everything. When Rose returned to the the church, Christabella immediately wanted to burn her alive, only for Rose to try to inform her followers that Christabella had been manipulating them for years while also critizing Christabella's obsession with burning everything that she cannot control. Angered by her comments and fearing her followers would finally accept their guilt, Christabella took out a dagger and fatally stabbed Rose to stop her from continuing to reveal the truth, except Christabella had been a victim of her own plans again, as Rose was saved by the essence of Dark Alessa within her and her tainted blood allowed the church to be corrupted by the darkness. Alessa, still scarred and strapped to her bed but as powerful as ever, appeared to protect Rose from the cultists and get her long-awaited revenge, starting by suspeding Christabella and using her barbed-wire Combat Tentacles to tear her in half from the inside out, a Cruel and Unusual Death for someone who loves to give this to her victims.
Heinous? Do i even have to say? Christabella is directly and indirectly responsible for every tragedy that we see, same as Game!Dahlia. Christabella is nothing but a cold-hearted monster who believed that fanatism was more important than family, and was ready to burn her own niece alive to prove that. Christabella was bad to the point in which her own actress, Alice Krige, openly said in an interview that playing such an evil and manipulative character was not an enjoyable experience for her.
Mitigating Factors? There have been claims of her being a Well-Intentioned Extremist who wanted to prevent the Apocalypse from happening... except no, Christabella is explicitly said to use this fear to make the Brethren follow their twisted religion. The only thing "positive" about her? She was in fact a Reasonable Authority Figure when she led Rose and Cybil to the hospital against the Brethren's wishes, even apologizing for not returning Rose's locket earlier and advising her to memorize the hospital's map for better chances of survival. With that being said, Christabella is an expert at being Faux Affably Evil as she did expect Rose to survive at all and was shocked when she returned to her church alive, that and she did not think twice before declaring Rose and Cybil as a witches for wanting to save Sharon.
Conclusion? What you say, my friends? I believe she will be my last candidate from the SH multiverse as the Big Bad from the sequel doesn't even come close to Christabella in terms of heinousness.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 19th 2019 at 8:30:01 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure there to Christabella. I remember watching the video about CM defeats and it listed her as one
@miraculous Also, np buddy :)
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Mar 19th 2019 at 1:29:42 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Christabella.
For a Second, I Thogut we were discussing the comics charachter XD.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Grande and Christabella
Also, I've got a truncation for one of my lengthier writeups (and nastiest candidates). Kung from Burning Paradise should be cut down a bit:
- Burning Paradise: Lord Kung, warden of the Red Lotus Temple, is a horrifying, hedonistic sadist who has turned the temple into his own personal den of torture. Kung forces his prisoners into virtual slavery and sadistically kills them—be it through his traps, as subjects in duels to the death, or to paint with their blood—regularly enough to bloat the caves underneath the temple with hundreds of corpses, even decorating his temple with the bodies and bones of those who have transgressed him. Kung also rapes his own concubines for pleasure, murdering those he tires of and setting up their bodies as trophies and terrorizing his latest—Chou Chou—by ripping off the head of a servant to break her first before raping her on the spot, even promising to turn her over to the pleasure of his soldiers once he's tired of her. Kung gleefully drags everyone around him into the hell he's turned the temple into, with even his own loyal servants knowing they'll never be able to escape his cruel whims.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 19th 2019 at 1:35:42 PM
To Grande and Christabell.
Mary, Grande and Christabella.
Happy Birthday!
How's this look?
Edited by SumDumNerd on Mar 18th 2019 at 10:28:26 AM
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.