Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Yes to Bathory, Redgrave, Horace, Hamartia, Brera, and Bentley.

If I remember correctly, this guy David orchid is a keeper. 4 murders and one attempted which is decently high as the show normally does around two, All violent: Strangulation, dismemberment and bludgeoning someone to death with a sledge hammer. His motivation was because uh his girlfriend didnt want to marry him.

Edited by miraculous on Sep 20th 2018 at 1:20:00 AM

Sounds great, but have you seen the episode yourself?

Yes I have. Thats how I know that since the wiki isnt giving much details on him on his page.

Would anyone be cool with collabarating with me on Midsomer. It's a big show and we have the bodycount list to see who to pick.

Sure there, Mirac.

Nice, I'll send you a PM to set a date.

So quick update on one of my candaites I approved awhile ago from recent novels.

So Blind Michael is in the newest book was given posthumously more backstory. Apperntly he and his wife Acacia were Star-Crossed Lovers (There also Half-siblings as for both there father is Oberon but uh let's not get into that) as she fell in love with him despite him being a son of Maeve and her mother than tried to kill them both for it. The two fleeded and resetled and formed the releam that they would take up residence. Nothing disqualifying here as he does in the present torture her and abuse her all the time but worth noting.

As far as new crimes. It's revaled that several as in dozens upon dozens of michael's riders died thanks to the abuse they were given by him and that he's used there bones to create spells and architecture (The stable itself was created from them). So yeah turns out I was wrong when I said he didnt have a bodycount but a unique niche. He actually has the third highest after Oleander and her employer Evening Winterrose. Should I do an expasnion ?

Edited by miraculous on Sep 20th 2018 at 2:36:09 AM

to Lighty's bad boys, Bentley, Balthory, and Kilgrave's long lost immortal brother Redgrave.

Yes to everyone since my last post.

I'd say an expansion's warranted.

Will Evening Winterrose be getting effortposted?

Edited by ACW on Sep 20th 2018 at 5:51:09 AM

Yeah evening counts pretty easily in fact. She started a genoicde on her sister's people simply because they were...happy and helped destabilise the mists kingdom by hriring oleander to kill Gilead. Thing is she's the main villain of the entire series and hence is already bound to show up again, so it makes me hesitant to do an ep now rather than wait even if she doesnt have any redeeming qualties at the moment at all.

Yeah Seanan McGuire makes sure to release the novels every year on schedule. The fact that she's writing 3 separte series at the same time (October Daye, InCryptid and Wayward children. All of which are pretty good which is impressive

Edited by miraculous on Sep 20th 2018 at 3:46:42 AM

Oh, if she's gonna show up again, then yeah, no harm waiting. Especially since 8 books have come out since the last ASOIAF novel, so Schedule Slip doesn't seem to be an issue.

Wow, that's impressive. So what's GRRM's excuse, or Kentaro Miura's excuse?

BTW, once the Sherlock Holmes image goes up, I'll wait 1 or 2 days before requesting the lock.

Edited by ACW on Sep 20th 2018 at 7:31:28 AM

Everybody from Redgrave to here.

This thread works really, really fast. 5210+ pages is nothing to sneeze at. Hot damn.

Anyway, I dunno if this will go anywhere but here's an effort post for two more CMs for Baldur's Gate: Neb and Rejiek Hidesman. My thanks to ~Lightysnake for giving Hephernaan a successful effort post in the meantime.

What's the work?

I'm sure plenty of you know what Baldur's Gate is at this point, but for those who don't, it's a series of old-timey Dungeons & Dragons Role-Playing Games which take place in the Forgotten Realms setting and use the 2nd edition ruleset. The games center on a young character called Gorion's Ward, nicknamed Charname, who discovers they are a descendant of Bhaal, the deceased Lord of Murder, and the continued havoc this wreaks on their life as several malevolent parties plot to exploit their heritage for personal gain in some way. They are forced to become an adventurer and build their own party from a cast of quirky and compelling characters they meet around the Sword Coast, Amn and Tethyr while fighting to unravel various conspiracies involving them and survive to see the final number.

The characters in question are two minor villains from the first two games, Neb appearing in both the original game and its sequel and Hidesman appearing only in the sequel.

Who are they?

• Neb is a gnome criminal first met in the first game when you are arrested by the Flaming Fist in the penultimate chapter if you don't have Shar-Teel in your party. You're forced to make a deal with him in order to escape the cell you're locked into. He comes back in the second game as a minor villain encountered in a sidequest centered on acquiring Illithium ore.
• Rejiek Hidesman is a tanner based in Athkatla who turns out to be a deranged Serial Killer. He's the bad guy of two sidequests — one in the Bridge District of Athkatla, the other in Trademeet.

What have they done?

• Talking to Neb reveals he knows a secret way to escape the cells, but he wants a favour from you first. Specifically, he wants you to correctly answer a riddle. At this time he cheerfully admits to you that he's actually a Serial Killer who specifically targets children, and the riddle is to correctly guess how many kids he's killed. The correct answer is a whopping 33 kids. He'll give you other riddles to solve if you don't get it right, but either way he gets away and you have to concern yourself with Sarevok and co. while he legs it. That's not the last of him, though, as he crops back up in another sidequest in the sequel. Specifically, this is the sidequest to get Illithium ore for Sarles the Sculptor. If you decide to go the path of acquiring genuine Illithium ore instead of just grabbing an alloy, the duergar merchant Unger Hilldark explains to you how Neb stole the ore from him and is currently holed up in an unoccupied house in the Bridge District of Athkatla, having run there to escape the authorities of Baldur's Gate. Once you confront him, he decides not only to fight you, but also to summon four of the spirits of his young victims to help him in battle. The fight ends, any child spirits you didn't kill are released with a thank you and you take his head to the authorities for a reward and the Illithium ore for whatever purpose you please. And in case you have doubts about how awful he is, here's the actual description of his head as an inventory item: "This is the head of Neb the gnome. Rarely has a more despicable being roamed the land."
• The first quest featuring Rejiek Hidesman involves solving the Skinner Murders, a series of brutal killings in the Athkatla Bridge District wherein the perp kills paupers and beggers in the most painful way possible — skinning them like beasts while they're still alive. At first he denies any knowledge of these killings, but a persistent player can uncover evidence linking him to them. Once you confront him about it, he tacitly admits to being the Skinner Murderer, and the only thing he regrets is that he got careless and ended up incriminating himself. Once the player declares their intention to arrest or kill him for his crimes, he legs it to the bottom floor of his house while you pursue him. To get there you have to pass through his distinctly Creepy Basement, with several dead bodies lying around (implied to be skinned) and a shirt made of Genuine Human Hide left on one of his beds. Also, you're given the quest by one Lieutenant Aegisfield of the city guard; if you bring the evidence to him before you confront Rejiek, you find his body crammed into a container of some kind in said basement. By the time you reach the bottom floor he's escaped, leaving a necromancer friend and his undead minions to delay you. He crops up again later in a Trademeet sidequest that further expands on what he's been up to. Talking to a young man named Tiris reveals that he and his girlfriend Raissa were attacked by a skinless man on the city's outskirts. Go there and you find Darsidian Moor, who is secretly Rejiek's crony and eventually leads you to a part of the city where Rejiek is seemingly lying, heavily wounded, and Raissa, who exhorts you to kill him. As it turns out, the "Rejiek" on the ground is actually the real Raissa, whom Rejiek has turned into a kind of monster called a "skinless dancer", along with himself, and the "Raissa" is Rejiek in disguise. You see, apparently skinless dancers are separated from their skins in such a way that allows them to take the skin of other people and pass themselves off as those people. At this point he and his crony drop the act, shed their skins and attack you, but even that's not the end of the story. Raissa takes her skin back, but the skinless dancer curse threatens to make her a mindless monster unless you cast a Restore spell on her to turn her back to normal. Not even death is enough to stop his atrocities.

Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Factors?

101 Dalmatians of no. None are ever offered, they themselves never bring their pasts up and the only things we see them do or having done are cruel, sadistic murders.

Heinous by the standards of the story?

I don't know how they fare against the existing CMs in the series like Irenicus, Hephernaan, Amelyssan (whose name is misspelled in her entry by the way) and the guy from Dark Alliance, but I know that most Arc Villains in BG sidequests fall well short of the heinous standard. The only ones who stand out in any way apart from these two, at least in my opinion, are Lady Galvena (the madame of a brothel that's run more like a modern-day human trafficking ring, complete with kidnapping and killing people for trying to leave), Firkraag (pulls a False Flag Operation on you to frame you for killing knights of the Order of the Radiant Heart for a petty grudge he held against your foster-father) and Isaea (a Manipulative Bastard who hired trolls to conquer De'Arnise Keep, a Dirty Cop, involved with slavery, a total arrogant bastard and in general a supremely unpleasant person) from Nalia's personal quest. Even then, Neb and Rejiek are way more evil than any of them, and besides that they really stand out considering they're two characters who are so minor in the long run that you can completely miss them or only see some of their actions unless you know where to look for them. Also, Neb's obsession with killing children and the flaying and weird dead-raising-type thing Rejiek has going on are pretty unique niches in the setting, in the sense that there are no other mentions of skinless dancers in the setting or any other title set in Forgotten Realms and only one other instance of a kid being murdered by an adult in the game itself, which is still only a guy who killed one kid and took his teddy bear (far be it from me to downplay the immorality of killing a kid, but the difference killing one kid and killing at least 33 of them is akin to that between threatening someone with a lit match and setting an apartment block on fire — both bad, but different orders of magnitude). In that regard, I'd say they pass it solidly.

Final Verdict

On the one hand I find these two douchebags to be the single most despicable and hateable non-major antagonists in the series that are not part exclusive to the Enhanced Edition, not to mention the most prolific. On the other hand, that doesn't automatically mean they're Complete Monsters, and I am worried too many of their misdeeds happened when we weren't looking for them to count. Ultimately my vote is on both counts, but I leave the rest to you guys.

Edited by MinisterOfSinister on May 26th 2019 at 10:45:13 AM

Yes to those two. Easily. The spirits of Neb's victims erase any concern about Offstage Villainy and the two sound handily bad enough for minor villains. Kind of a similar case to Castrofari in Xenoblade 2 — small fish who only appears in a sidequest, but easily bad enough considering he's a bottom tier villain.

With Rejek, it seems we might see enough for him to count; unsure on Neb, though it seems he might JUST make the cut.

As for the heinousness...Lighty or anyone else who's played the series, what say you?

If Lighty or others who've played the game think they're bad enough, I'll toss in a yes vote too.

Thanks for catching the misspelling; I've fixed the YMMV page and requested the change on the CM page.

Edited by ACW on Sep 20th 2018 at 7:45:51 AM

to Neb and Rejieck

Hey guys with the Shadow of the Tomb Raider discussion date coming out (I know that Knack has already reserved that), so I went back to look a Mathias entry from Tomb Raider (2013) and felt like it could use some work.

Here's Father Mathias entry as it is now:

• Tomb Raider (2013): Seeing his fellow survivors as liabilities, Father Mathias tricked many into sailing off Yamatai island to their deaths to prove that his theory escape by boat was impossible. Forming the violent Solarii Brotherhood, Mathias uses religious teachings he doesn't even believe in to distract the other survivors while he escapes alone. Initiating recruits into his cult by forcing them to go days or even weeks without food or water, many are driven to cannibalism, while Mathias is callous to their suffering; he kills one for objecting to his order to blow up a bridge some of the cult members were on to stop Lara Croft. Convincing Dr. Whitman to betray the other survivors, Mathias later leaves him to his death while trying to flee.

Aside from some re-wording I see Mathias' pothole to Big Bad. Now I wouldn't consider Mathias to be the sole Big Bad of the game as ultimately he part of a Big Bad Duumvirate to Himiko who caused the island's curse in the first place. If anything he's more like The Heavy since he's still the biggest obstacle to Lara. So with that said here's my re-write of Mathias:

• Tomb Raider (2013): Father Mathias, upon being strand on Yamatai island tricks many of his fellow survivors into sailing off said island to prove that escaping by boat was impossible, uncaring about their deaths. Forming the Solarii Brotherhood based around Himiko, he only uses the Sun Queen to distract his followers while he tries to escape alone, showing no true loyalty to her or his cult; he has his initiates go through days or even weeks without food or water, many are driven to cannibalism. Callous to the deaths of his followers and allies alike, Mathias kills one of his own for objecting to his order to blow up a bridge some his men were on, and leaving Dr. Whitman to his death after convincing him to betray the other survivors earlier.

How does it look?

Also, I was wondering if the Sun Queen Himiko in the same game also counts, since she's the reason from the games plot to happen and has no redeeming qualities herself. There's a canon comic book series taking place right after the game where Himiko manages to successfully posses Lara's best friend Sam, while driving her insane.

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 20th 2018 at 4:07:53 AM

Part of me is releived, the other part of me is 'DAMMIT!' I was gonna do them tomorrow! Well done, Minister. I'll be doing Belhifet next, easy yes to both, great work.

Wow, how many more Baldur's Gate CMs are there total now or forthcoming? BTW, I'll wait until ALL of them (the two new ones, plus Lighty's tomorrow) and just submit the entire tree at once (Shar still goes this week).

Edited by ACW on Sep 20th 2018 at 7:55:19 AM

Neb and Hidesman

to Neb and Rejiek Hidesman.

Absolute yes to those two, especially Neb.

TBH, I'd like to see a post for Galvena now. Firkraag I'd be reticent on....now, Belhifet. This is gonna require some huge spoilers and a discussion of two different games.

Who is Belhifet?

A powerful devil, or Baatezu, of Baator who dwells in the first level of Avernus. Now, Belhifet had the desire to conquer the material plane, and also had an intense hatred and rivalry with a Tanari'ri (demon) named Yxunomei...

Now, Icewind Dale is set in the far, cold north, in the Ten Towns area....the game is narrated by a kindly old man voiced by the late, great David Ogden-Stiers (Cogsworth from Beauty and the Beast)...now, weird stuff happens in the north and the heroes are met by a warrior named Hrothgar who is leading an expedition to figure out what's going on. On the orders of Belhifet, frost giants wipe the group out with only the mains surviving.

Belhifet, having returned to the mortal plane, is amassing an army, under the guise of a cleric named Brother Poquelin while also manipulating the heroes to set them against his hated enemy Yxunomei. One of the good guys, Arundel? Belhifet has been torturing him, resulting in his death, while plotting on overrunning the Ten Towns and Icewind Dale, killing and abducting multitudes of villagers. Those killed will have their souls all reaped by Belhifet, enslaved into his army.

Now, Belhifet plans to open the gates to Baator, invade Ten Towns and wipe it out so he can amass an army for even more attacks, but the heroes slay him. In DND lore, killing a devil or demon on the material plane destroys their physical form, but sends their souls back to their home plane, and renders them incapable of returning for a century....oh, and the kind narrator? Is revealed to have been Belhifet the whle time. Now's where things get dark. Belhifet, before he fell? Raped multiple women to impregnate them with his half-devil children, including one of his followers, the elf Ilmadia who gave birth to twin cambion children and killed herself. Belhifet steadily manipulates things there with the twins (who are serious Woobie Destroyerof Worlds types ending up being the main villains)

Now, years later? Caelar Argent as a child accidentally ended up by Belhifet...Belhifet was about to seize and make her his plaything, when her uncle rescued her, leaving him rotting in Avernus under Belhifet's tortures. Belhifet then put together the plan with Hephernaan to manipulate the Shining Crusade, so Caelar would make her way into Avernus, allowing Belhifet the chance to invade and raze Faerun and all Toril. ...he offers Caelar a "in for a penny in for a pound" damnation argument...if Caelar accepts the offer, she has only one request: kill Hephernaan first. Belhifet more than happily does so. Or Caelar resists. Either way, the Bhaalspawn hero and team face Belhifet once and for all, ending by striking him down. Remember how I said killing a devil on the material plane sends them home? Well...kill them in the Nine Hells? They are gone forever. Belhifet is summarily Killed Off for Real, but Caelar (if she survived), to atone? Stays behind to seal off the pathway to the Hells, sacrificing herself.

Heinousness?

Pretty dang bad Even by devil standards. A lot of corruption, murder, conquest, soul reaping, over two dozen counts of rape, being the one behind the Shining Crusade and a Baatezu invasion...he's worse than most of the Archdevils. The only other who's a known Serial Rapist is Mephistopheles, and Belhifet is far weaker than Meph is. I'd say he passes here.

Mitigating Qualities?

Fun fact...even other devils thought his enmity with Yxunomei was a little excessive and banished him from their ranks. Now, Devils are, to a one, Lawful Evil while demons are Chaotic Evil. Obviously Belhifet has no redeeming qualities. The reason I don't think devil nature is an issue is that for starters, he's nastier than most devils we see to begin with, and also? Devils are, if I recall my lore right, fallen angelic beings who turned to darkness. Even that aside, devils can possess redeeming qualities or good aspects. Very notably Asmodeus, the ultimate lord of all Baator? Loved his dead wife, and loves his daughter Glasya who is fully loyal to him in turn. Belhifet is creatively nasty and ambitious beyond most other devils and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Also, it's almost comical that the second Caelar makes her joining him conditional on his killing Hephernaan, that Hephernaan gets turned into charcoal. It's not out of any honor. Belhifet just gloats that for such a pittance, he gets a REAL devilish feather in his cap: an Aasimar Blackguard bound to him? Now that's devil bragging rights there.

Conclusion?

I'd give Belhifet a keeper. What say?

Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 20th 2018 at 5:28:52 AM

Baldur's Gate duo.

Belhifet seems like a yes. I don't know where exactly he'll go (maybe just at the top of the video games group?).

Sure to everything and I did Mathias’ last rewrite—though not the potholes, that would have been ACW—but I’m fine with G’s (re-)rewrite.