Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Sailor Nothing

• Complete Monster — Most Yamiko would be this, but have the solid excuse of being nothing more than a raging ball of id. Radon, however, plays it very straight. Even after having his mind cleared by the priestess he remains a treacherous, backstabbing Starscream. When pretending to be one of the good guys he still comes off as a total Knight Templar, and following his return to villainy he crosses the Moral Event Horizon in about ten seconds flat. He's also an arrogant, unpleasant Smug Snake and Jerkass extraordinare.

This doesn't really explain what he does.

Cut it, and PM the user.

edited 7th May '14 7:09:57 PM by AustinDR

Um, hello. PhantomHeartless5 here. I've been on this site for a while now and I've been wondering how do you suggest new entries for the Complete Monster trope? I'd thought I'd ask first before making big changes like that.

edited 7th May '14 7:48:41 PM by PhantomHeartless5

Normally the best way to propose a new example is through an effort post which tells us as much about the character and the series they're from as possible. Who are they? What crimes have they committed? Are these crimes onscreen? What are the worst crimes that have been committed in the series (this include crimes committed by people other than the person you're proposing, including possibly the protagonists; all of this helps to determine the heinous standard of the work)? Do they have a Freudian Excuse or redeeming qualities? It's important to explain the series as if no one here has heard about it before, so that way we get as much information as possible, as quickly as possible. Once we know enough, the forum can vote on the character if they sound heinous enough to qualify.

edited 7th May '14 8:26:20 PM by OccasionalExister

Oh, just post here. Propose it for us, and write it up if we approve

RE: Trent Easton

He's a jackass but I don't think he ever crosses the line into CM territory, and is pretty in over his head with the Skedar.

RE: Sailor Nothing

Radon is a bastard, but he comes up short in the evil department, due to spending most of the series under a geass that forces him to act as one of the heroes. I don't know that anything he does tops what Argon does in the finale either (taking a girl they all hated and transforming her into a puppet, then forcing them to all watch while pointing out that they all wished this sort of thing on her in the first place). There's also the fact that as The Heartless his moral agency is pretty much shot, much like that of the other Yamiko.

To catch up:

• Le Chiffre is a for failing the overall heinousness standard compared to other Bond CM villains.
• Trent Easton's a Jerkass but not a remorseless villain that goes the extra mile.
• Radon fails the heinousness standard when compared to other villains in his work.
• After rewatching Psycho-Pass, Rikako is a given the amount of damage she does and her Lack of Empathy.
• On the same thread, I'm on the fence for Senguji. Deal with the entries for Makishima and Rikako first.

edited 7th May '14 11:26:18 PM by sanfranman91

I just want it on the record that I am adamantly opposed to creator-specific subpages for this trope that don't have a good reason and/or shared universe to draw on (e.g. Disney, DC, Marvel, Stephen King). I see no reason for the Directors folder under Film, or a Konami page, or a Bioware page, or a Cartoon Network page, or a Jim Butcher page. Whedonverse monsters can probably be repurposed into a Buffyverse page if necessary, but Firefly and Dollhouse examples should be moved.

Now now, the Cartoon Network page makes sense because there are a lot of examples under it, the main page very badly needed to be split and Cartoon Network is almost on par with Disney (which also has it's own subpage due to length issues).

Super Mario Bros.

• Complete Monster: King Koopa has done or threatened to do many heinous deeds, among them trying to kill Santa Claus and potentially turning Dome City's cave people into Chickadactyls so he can feed them to dinosaurs.

Uuuuuh I didn't watch the show but this entry is lacking

So, why was Jessicka Havok removed from the WSU page? Because she was sort of turned in Shine by force? Pretty sure that had no bearing on her role in WSU and she's remained the same crazed woman willing to kill her opponent with a machete and or bury them alive if it gets her a win.

edited 8th May '14 4:23:52 AM by IndirectActiveTransport

Who from the what now?

@ Occasional Exister: As Very Melon stated, Crowley starts caring about his son's wellbeing after receiving a partial demon cure. In the latest episode Crowley saves him from Abaddon and uses his position as King of Hell to prevent his "Prince" from an early death in the 1600s by giving him a new life in the 21st century.

Here are two new write-ups for Longshanks and Stanley, both of whom were deemed keeps.

• King Edward I "Longshanks" from Braveheart is portrayed as far more evil than his real life counterpart ever was. Introduced as a "cruel pagan" who has annexed Scotland to England and just returned from a war with France, he authorizes mass rape in Scotland by restoring the ancient law of Ius Primae Noctis, giving English lords in Scotland the right to claim "first night" of any peasant girl in their domain upon their marriage. He's doing this to win support from the English lords necessary to solidify his rule in Scotland and to gradually end the Scottish as a nation by outbreeding them. He sees his effeminate son Edward II simply as the continuation of his legacy, throws his son's homosexual lover out of a window for daring to speak to him as an advisor and beats his son's face in afterwards. After William Wallace stages a Scottish rebellion against him, Longshanks announces his intent to reduce the country to ashes just out of petty spite at Wallace. During an engagement with the Scots he orders his archers to fire on his own troops while they're busy fighting the Scots, justifying it by stating that his men are expendable. After Wallace is captured by the English due to a conspiracy among the Scottish lords, Longshanks has him slowly and painfully tortured to death in a public execution while listening on from his own death bed.

• Stanley Caldwell from Cabin by the Lake and its sequel Return to Cabin by the Lake is a horror movie writer who moonlights as a misogynistic Serial Killer. To get inspiration for his scripts, he kidnaps teenage girls and locks them up in a soundproof room for several days before he dresses them up and promises to let them go, but instead drowns them in the nearby Lake Summit by weighing them down. He collects the corpses to create a grotesque underwater graveyard, which he frequently visits with scuba gear to tend to the decaying corpses. When his final victim Mallory escapes and his crimes are discovered by the police, he kidnaps her again to kill her succesfully before stabbing a movie director to death and preparing to drown his agent as well. Only Mallory is saved, but they never find Stanley's body and he disappears to continue his kills in secret. When a movie is being made based on his story, he infiltrates the movie set to commandeer the production. He gradually starts killing off the crew, drowning several people, burying the director alive, decapitating the AD with a boat engine, and staging a live electrocution of one of the female leads. When his second murder spree is finally halted by Allison, a screenwriter who discovers his true identity, he kidnaps her to make her the centerpiece of his newest underwater graveyard. Allison at first theorizes that Stanley must have been driven insane due to not being recognized, but he explains that there's no real reason he became a serial killer. He just enjoys watching people beg for their lives and wants to share his crimes with the world to fuel his massive ego.

This possible example I'm not quite sure on myself: Paul Sarone from Anaconda. The actor is incredibly hammy in the role and I fully agree with Roger Ebert's assessment of it being "great trash", but the heinousness of what he's doing is still played straight. Besides, Large Ham (or Ham and Cheese, as the case might be) has never really been a disqualifier. Played for Laughs has.

He's been discussed once and quickly cut for standard villainy. Is he, though? He manipulates and threatens a whole boat crew to capture a giant snake and make a profit off the animal, apparently being willing to sacrifice any of them. He strangles a women to death who tried to avenge her boyfriend whom Sarone had sacrificed previously, ties up two people and showers them with monkey blood to use them as bait, and it's discovered in hindsight that he staged the near-death of the crew's director by a poisonous wasp (he saves his life by performing a tracheotomy, although it's not a Pet the Dog moment but a calculated move to win their trust). He may meet the minimum of heinousness. The guy from Blood Orchid if I recall was a least a Well-Intentioned Extremist who tries to find a rare flower that could extend human lifespans. Sarone is just in it for the money and only shows boredom when his former hunting buddies turn up dead.

edited 9th May '14 9:35:35 AM by Morgenthaler

Well, it was on the works page, its Your Mileage May Vary. Does this thread not cover that?

Fine, I propose adding Jessicka Havok's WSU run to the "Other" subpage...or would if I really cared about that and thought Jessicka Havok's career would be limited to what she did there. I just wanted to know the reason for taking it off WSU, where she has never been anything but a monster and will likely remain so, barring some use of a plot line another promotion did involving Jessicka that might have seen her do something "redeeming". Turning face or revealing some understandable motive for her depravity in Femme Fatales and then that somehow bleeding into WSU story lines is about the only way her status in the promotion is ever going to change outside the company itself coming under new ownership that cares to do something with Havok and gets her approval.

Or in short, she is and will remain a villain with no redeeming qualities in WSU barring a Million to One Chance so why was it removed?

edited 8th May '14 5:51:33 AM by IndirectActiveTransport

Looking at history...

Zero Context Example it looks like. A cut on sight for us.

edited 8th May '14 6:08:12 AM by Lightysnake

Yeah. Now, feel free to make a case for her; keep in mind that the standards for pro wrestling are Ox Baker and Jake Roberts.

Okay, fine. It is a comment out by

If this were an objective entry though, it is evident Jessicka Havok displayed no sympathetic traits as she and her minions antagonized the rest of the roster. AK 47 Allison Kay is funny at least. Not a sympathetic quality in of itself but could lead to a face turn given the way things are going. Sassy Stephanie started out as a face so she's instantly disqualified. Havok was just depraved and having been banned for life, her case closed for the foreseeable future.

Yes, but what did she do? Walk us through her history.

Lighty, didn't you have an addition to Bullseye's entry?

I'll try and work on Madan Senki Ryukendo (does Baron count?), The Man from U.N.C.L.E. (Randolph certaintly seems like a qualifier: 3 murders, one attempted murder, and hitting a woman), Nikita (need to do research), and Crane (ditto) Saturday afternoon. Meanwhile, there's a whole heap of entries that need expansion.

edited 8th May '14 12:35:01 PM by ACW

With wrestling examples most are going to make the cut, since there are an incredibly small amount who stay heels their entire career and one or two who reached CM levels. So what exactly did she do?

Incidentally, Jake the Snake needs to be cut now. He did have a face turn and played the hero in his last appearance, so instant cut material there.

edited 8th May '14 1:55:15 PM by Shaoken

Is he the same character, though, or just the same wrestler playing a different face character?

Are there ANY wrestlers who stay heel their ENTIRE career? Hell, even face I can only think of Rey Mysterio and Ricky Steamboat; even Sting and Undertaker were heels briefly.

What matters is whether the wrestler's persona ever changed though. Ox Baker's performer, Douglas Baker, did play a face at one point, but the Ox persona never changed.

From wikipedia:

edited 8th May '14 4:14:41 PM by ACW

A Gaim watchlist update: After watching Episode 28, I'm adding Mitsuzane Kureshima to my watchlist. Similar to Griffith he doesn't start out as a villain. The last ten or so episodes, however, has shown him slowly but surely tossing all of his redeeming qualities in the trashcan and proving himself to be a classic example of a sociopath. As of Episode 28, fans are comparing Mitsuzane to Kamen Rider Ouja, a character that has qualified as a CM. IMO, he's more like Masato Kusaka without any of Masato's redeeming qualities. Sid and Ryoma are still on track to potentially qualifying, but I might drop Yoko due to her Pet the Dog moments as well as showing respect to her enemies.

I'll also see if I can clean up Rook's entry from the Kamen Rider page.

edited 8th May '14 6:22:35 PM by sanfranman91