Hindsight Cleanup

Oh boy.

• Aneurysm:
  • Creator mortality. Unless the final strip has some kind of connection to his death, but I feel like it wouldn't have been printed if it had.
  • The next war that the US would be involved in would be horrible for everyone involved. In other news, grass is green and bears shit in the woods.
  • Not sure about this.
  • Companies are bought out by other companies.
• Harsher:
  • General example.
  • Not sure.
• Hilarious:
  • That's Foreshadowing, not this.
  • Zero-context.
  • Zero-context.
  • Zero-context, as Weblinks Are Not Examples.
  • "Two unrelated works have a character with the same name" misuse.
  • "Two unrelated works have a character with the same name" misuse, except they don't even have the same name.
  • Bob Dylan is a human who gets older as time passes. In other news, grass is green, bears shit in the woods, and the Vietnam War was horrible for everyone involved.
  • The strip unintentionally references a bad translation? I'm not really sure how this is supposed to be hilarious.
  • Companies are bought out by other companies.
  • Because, as we all know, sexual harassment didn't exist before 2017.
  • Not sure.
  • "lol jojo's refrance".

Edited by Serac on Sep 24th 2020 at 11:34:56 AM

Another George Floyd-related addition under Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

• SHIELD being thoroughly infiltrated by HYDRA and trying to subvert what America stands for becomes much more chilling now that it's increasingly apparent that White Supermacists have been infiltrating local and state level law enforcement agencies for decades. Which has become that much harsher when American police nationwide started openly aiding white supremacist militias, attacking protesters, and fired upon reporters during the 2020 George Floyd Protests.

While I think this specific work is more germane to these types of additions than the usual given how topical its specific themes are^spoilers the major plot twist being that the supposedly heroic law enforcement agency has been irreparably infiltrated by literal fascists and the only solution is to destroy it and start anew; social media and algorithms being used as a tool for authoritarian suppression of dissent; Nick Fury explicitly makes reference to police racism, and that many aspects of the Trump administration and ACAB activism fit this film like a glove, this particular example isn't the best.

Amazing how the original entry points out that white supremacist infiltration has been an issue for decades, and yet the addition still implies this is only a recent issue.

Trump examples (even neutrally-written ones) still can't count until the administration is over anyway, even if they would fit.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Saying that white supremacists have "infiltrated" local and state law enforcement agencies presupposes that there was ever a time in this country in which law enforcement has been free of white supremacy and racism.

Edited by HighCrate on Sep 24th 2020 at 2:17:44 AM

Racist cops helping racist extremists isn't a new event.

Even if one insists not all cops are bad, some cops have been doing this for as long as cops have been a thing.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

While it's true that the police tend to disproportionately pull in bigots, the example cited, aside from being mentioned to avoid possible Flame Bait and ROCEJ, points out that this was a case of a concerted and organized top-down effort. Same with Operation Insight and the citation for Cambridge Analytica scandal, otherwise it'd be general Ripped from the Headlines.

One part of me does want to add something about how the current wave of ACAB activism is a seeming validation of the film's "the nation's law enforcement agency is so corrupted and filled with rights-ignoring fascists that we should destroy it all and start anew" Aesop, which was quite shocking then, especially from a blockbuster popcorn flick. But Values Resonance requires around 20 years to count, and this film was released in 2014, and I'm not sure whether it constitutes either harsher or heartwarming.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 24th 2020 at 5:30:01 AM

Arguably, that was the whole point of Winter Soldier: tempering patriotism with realism. Recognizing that you can love your country, love its people, love its culture, and still recognize that its institutions are kind of fucked.

Edited by HighCrate on Sep 24th 2020 at 2:20:02 AM

Just to be sure, would a Hindsight entry that's not about BLM, George Floyd, or police brutality, but rather about the popularization of the ACAB sentiment in wake of The Winter Soldier's message still be prudent for the YMMV page?

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 24th 2020 at 6:49:03 AM

If the connection is just “work presents an anti-cop view”, then it isn’t a good Hindsight example, because that’s too general of an idea- we do have Cop Hater and Anti-Police Song, after all. However, if you do think there’s a stronger connection to be made, then I’d like to see it.

Edited by jandn2014 on Sep 24th 2020 at 6:55:06 AM

back lol

It's more the above-mentioned Aesop of "the nation's law enforcement agency, as well as various members of the US government proper (Senator Stern, etc.), is so thoroughly corrupted and crawling with civil rights-ignoring fascists that the heroes believe in destroying it all and starting anew rather than try to remove the rot; all the Good Cops/Agents prove their goodness by joining in the rebellion to take it down rather than stand idly by".

The main reason I hesitate is because I'm not sure if there's other, older media with that same exact moral. But it's a fairly on-the-nose take, amidst several other elements that were also an oddly prophetic mixture of Ripped from the Headlines and speculative science fiction, and I can get further specific if you'd like.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 24th 2020 at 7:22:24 AM

At best, I'd say that's probably a case for Values Resonance, since the movie's themes have become more relevant over time. However, Values Resonance requires a 20 year waiting period before new entries can be added, so we can't post any entries like that for quite a while.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 24th 2020 at 7:18:24 AM

Figured as much, Values Resonance was the first closest trope I thought of.

Found this on Hercules under Hilarious in Hindsight:

• Hades pointing to Pain's Hercules shoes and asking 'What are those?'
  • As noted by a viewer, Hades' scheme has went on for 18 years. This movie came out in 1997, 18 years later is 2015, the same year the "What are those" trend happened. Yep, Hades predicted the trend itself.

Honestly? That's so improbably precise that I think it's keepable. Just needs to be rewritten to have correct Example Indentation.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 24th 2020 at 5:49:46 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

That, and correct "has went on" to "has gone on".

Got it:

• Hades pointing to Pain's Hercules shoes and asking 'What are those?'. Hades' scheme has went on for 18 years. This movie came out in 1997; 18 years later is 2015, the same year the "What are those" trend happened. In a way, Hades predicted the trend itself.

---

Though while we're here let's check the rest of those HIH examples:

• The Hades in this movie is incredibly similar to Kid Icarus: Uprising's Hades, both even having a Credits Gag. It's almost as if Disney predicted another Hades would troll us again.
• Also, Hades's design being based off of Jeffrey Katzenberg. He returned the favor with Lord Farquaad, whose design was based off Michael Eisner and was voiced by one of the original casting choices for Hades, John Lithgow.
• The film's climax has Aphrodite passionately kissing Phil. Phil is voiced by Danny DeVito, and in the TV series Aphrodite would be voiced by Lisa Kudrow. Friends fans will recall a memorable episode where Danny DeVito plays a stripper who repulses Phoebe at her bachelorette party.
• Rip Torn, who voices Zeus in this movie, would later play a role in a very different take on Greek mythology.
• A few people^note including Grant Morrison believe this movie to be one of the best movies of Superman ever made. Just the year before Hercules came out, an Elseworld comic, Superman / Wonder Woman: Whom Gods Destroy, had Superman and the women of his life (Lois Lane and Lana Lang) all being used in power games of the Greek Gods. (Despite the title, Wonder Woman, who is generally connected to the Greek Gods in the comics, is only a red herring.)
• A Greek tale with gospel-inspired musical elements, which includes a journey to the Underworld to rescue a soul from Hades? Hmm.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢

This is what I have; feel free to get a second opinion:

— The Hades in this movie is incredibly similar to Kid Icarus: Uprising's Hades... Well, because he's Hades. Cut.

— Also, Hades's design being based off of Jeffrey Katzenberg... Unsure on this one. I almost want to say cut if it sounds like a simple tit-for-tat.

— The film's climax has Aphrodite passionately kissing Phil... Sounds like "two actors appear together then do so in another work". Cut.

— Rip Torn, who voices Zeus in this movie... Looks like he voices Hephaestus in GoW. No real connection here other than the Greek pantheon. Cut.

— A few people believe this movie to be one of the best movies of Superman ever made... Sounds like Spiritual Adaptation. Move to that trope?

— A Greek tale with gospel-inspired musical elements... Because "Orpheus and Eurydice" has never ever ever been done before, and gospel-inspired music is super duper rare throughout history. Cut.

Found this one on the Cloverfield movie YMMV:

• Harsher in Hindsight: The opening events of the attack on New York City, in which two gargantuan explosions at the harbor set the ground quaking and send fire and debris hurtling hundreds of feet in the air, became far more painful to watch after two tremendous ammonium nitrate explosions wracked Beirut, Lebanon, killing over 150 people and injuring thousands, on August 4, 2020. Especially harsh was Showtime Next's ill-timed airing of the film on August 7, even as trapped victims and unknown numbers of corpses were being excavated from the Real Life catastrophe site.

The only connection I see is that they both have cities being destroyed. Otherwise connecting this 2008 film in New York to Beirut in 2020 is a streeeeeeeeeetch.

Cut?

Easy cut.

From YMMV.The Goonies.

• "Funny Aneurysm" Moment:
  • Chunk's lie about Michael Jackson supposedly stopping over at his house to use the bathroom becomes a bit hard to watch in light of Jackson being accused of child molestation. Looks legit
  • In one scene, Mouth (Corey Feldman) mistakes John F. Kennedy for Martin Sheen. In 2020, Corey Feldman opens up about Sheen's son, Charlie Sheen, allegedly sexually assaulting his friend Corey Haim. It gets even more uncomfortable since Haim originally auditioned to play Mouth. No real connection
• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • The joke about Martin Sheen being a president (despite having played Kennedy in a mini series and a presidential candidate in The Dead Zone) is funnier after he played President Bartlet in The West Wing. So he did played a president
  • Mikey's speech about how the quest and the danger they're marching into is necessary because is all about saving their homes and staying together so they can't give up before it's finished is a bit Narmy in the film, but seeing as that's the future Samwise Gangee? It can be a bit hard not to picture The Shire instead of the Goon Docks. I don't know
  • The gang subduing Josh Brolin. In Avengers: Infinity War, some Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy try to subdue Thanos. Easy Cut since there's no connection
  • After Chunk drops the statue (apparently a smaller Michelangelo's David), the genitalia break off. This is similar to how male Stigoi lose their genitalia in The Strain (TV series) in which Sean Astin (Mikey) played Jim Kent who's spared said fate by way of a Mercy Kill, but not in the novel. No Clue

From Hades under Harsher in Hindsight:

"The game implies the Greek gods invented guns, but pray they're never used by mortals. The TV version of American Gods introduced Vulcan, Hephaestus's Roman counterpart, who co-opted guns to remain relevant in the modern world (gods in that series die if humans cease to worship them)."

This just seems like a non sequitur to me, both works feature guns adjacent to ancient gods and, that's it? It barely seems related let alone "harsh"

This could be copy-pasted as a response to a very large percentage of examples that come up in this thread.

Huge stretch. Cut.

For The Goonies:

— "Chunk's lie about Michael Jackson..." It does sound cringy, I think this is keepable?

— "In one scene, Mouth (Corey Feldman) mistakes John F. Kennedy for Martin Sheen..." Cut as the connections are too much of a stretch.

— "The joke about Martin Sheen being a president..." Sheen played a president before, and actors play Presidents fairly often. Cut.

— "Mikey's speech about how the quest and the danger they're marching into..." If Sean Astin said a very similar speech in a similar situation in LotR, keep. Right now, I say cut as all there is is the common surface element of "losing your hometown".

— "The gang subduing Josh Brolin..." I don't know what this is supposed to be besides "subdue". Cut.

— "After Chunk drops the statue..." Genitalia "breaking off" or otherwise isn't too uncommon. As this has to stretch into the novel, it's too much. Cut.

This is on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs under Harsher in Hindsight:

• The original German dub comes across as a quite bit creepier when you remember that the voice of Queen Grimhilde died at Auschwitz just five years after the dub was recorded for Swiss audiences. Even sadder, the same fate befell no less than three other voice actors in the dub, including the dub director. Out of all the Jewish cast members for the dub, only Happy's voice actor escaped the Nazis.