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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#927: Jul 25th 2019 at 6:26:18 AM

EDIT: Repeated post, sorry.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 25th 2019 at 8:27:25 AM

Watch me destroying my country
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#928: Jul 25th 2019 at 6:46:55 AM

If anyone else wants to vote on Jagi, please do so now.

I just want to make sure the effortposts aren't ignored.

Rawr.
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#929: Jul 25th 2019 at 6:48:16 AM

As for me, I already said yes to Jagi.

Sure to the candidates I missed between my last post and now.

Not sure if I got enough votes for my three first candidates. Here's the EPs if you want to vote for them.

So... Might as well go all out and propose all of my candidates. Going to separate them in folders so that's easier to read.

Let's start with Basam-Damdu, of Blake and Mortimer fame.

     Blake and Mortimer - Basam-Damdu 
What's the work?

The Secret of The Swordfish was the first story in the Blake and Mortimer Belgian comic album series by Edgar P. Jacobs. It describes how a far eastern empire takes over the world and the adventures of two Britons, Blake and Mortimer (helped by their Indian Muslim friend Ahmed Nasir) as they try to bring about the development of a weapon, the Swordfish, which will enable them to fight back. Drawing elements from the recent events of World War II as well as the emerging Cold War, the trilogy is set in an alternate reality of the 1950s, in which a Third World War is played out. It was originally released in the Tintin magazine between September 26, 1946 and September 8, 1949.

Fun fact : Jacobs and Hergé were close friends, and Jacobs assisted Hergé in colorizing the black and white strips of the earlier Tintin albums. Under the name "Jacobini", Jacobs even made several cameos in Tintin albums. They also tried to create a comic book together but never went any further than a pilot.

Let's talk about our candidate!

Who is Basam-Damdu? What has he done?

Few things are known about his origins, or how he became such a monster, but it is known that Basam-Damdu is an usurpator, who took over the Yellow Empire. He has his ambassadors claim that he will help keep the peace... And then he attacks world capitals, destroying Paris, London, Bombay, Rome, London, America and others world capitals in order to break the free world's minds, and successfully takes over the world.

In the second volume, Basam-Damdu and the Great Council summons Olrik, Basam-Damdu's Dragon-in-Chief, and does not hide their displeasure. The Yellow Empire is having more and more difficulty controlling their land; rebellions and acts of terrorism have continued worldwide, and despite their best efforts, they have still not been able to sweat the Swordfish plans out of Mortimer, whom Olrik captured. As chief of the Empire's security service, Olrik is the natural scapegoat for this state of affairs and is essentially blamed for the resistance against the Yellow Empire. If Mortimer doesn't reveals the plans in two days, Basam-Damdu will sent someone to torture him, all the while subtly threatening Olrik.

In the third vokume, Basam-Damdu, seeing that La Résistance is slowly starting to fight back, loses his mind. He wants to launch the tons of atomic rockets on the whole world out of spite. When one of his advisors tells him that he risks destroying the Empire as well, Basam-Damdu flat-out says that he doesn't care about his own empire, saying that what he cares about is his will being carried out. When Olrik reports, Basam-Damdu, due to Olrik's failures, wants him to be strapped to the first rocket. As he's about to fire, a squadron of Swordfish nuke his capital, taking the Empire and him with it before he does so. note 

What makes him personally despicable

Selfishness, Pettiness and Chronic Backstabbing Disorder : the guy is ultimately nothing more than a backstabbing scumbag who wants to Take Over the World or to destroy it should he fail. Add to that that he feels increasingly superior to La Résistance, even though without Olrik, he likely wouldn't have went that far.

Freudian Excuse? Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity?

FEH!

Verdict?

Easy yes.

On to the next candidate : from DryBonesKing's Naruto fanfiction True Potential, Karitoriki, who appears in the Kirigakure Civil War Arc.

    True Potential - Karitoriki 

What's the work?

Quote from the fanfic's article :

"It's a For Want Of A Nail fic, with the divergence point being that Naruto becomes friends with Hinata and Shikamaru during the Academy. The Sandaime Hokage notices this, and subsequently places the three together as a genin team. Their sensei is the rather unusual choice of Anko. The story slowly spirals outward from there, with many marked changes from the original canon."

Who is Karitoriki? What he has done?

Karitoriki is infamous in Kirigakure (especially in the middle of Yagura's genocide of whoever has a Bloodline Limit) as the "Bloodline Limit Hunter". After the destruction of his home village, he entered Kiri's ranks to become a shinobi. How did he made a name for himself in Kiri, especially during the Civil War? By offing bloodline wielders, and being a merciless executioner who loves to 'torture' all of his subjects. When he appears, he whip up a civilian village's toxic hatred of people with Bloodline Limits and he's about to execute 5 people who's sole crimes is to have... Bloodline Limits! Said people are Kenshin (from the Hemo Clan, a clan who was loyal to the Mizukage prior to the genocide ; sadly, they were accused of attempting a coup... But according to Kenshin, it wasn't the case at all), Guren (yes, that crystal manipulator from a Shippuden filler. Due to Orochimaru's death in the fanfic, she became a Death Seeker, and came to Kirigakure in order to kick the bucket), Kemuri Kimiko (a woman who was unfortunately a member of the Kemuri Clan, who wiped out Karitoriki's home village. However, she explained that she didn't had a hand in this... Only for Karitoriki to tell her to shut up and to stab her in a rage), Daisuke Yuki (Defiant to the End, nothing much to say about him) and Mari Kaguya (let's see... She's still a child, is a member of the Kaguya clan, is pretty much distraught by the whole ordeal, and is only asking not to die... Something Karitoriki won't respect in the slightest. He even Kick the Dog by taunting her about her parents' death after the Kaguya Clan's destruction). When Shikamaru, Honoka, Kiri (a character, not the village) and Haku attempts to crash the execution and rescue the 5 persons, Karitoriki (after being freed from Honoka's chains by Guren) reveals that he saw that kind of operation coming and had placed explosives inside the 5 bloodline wielders' hearts just in case. He then spitefully blow them up, killing them all. His only regret? That he wasn't able to torture them. However, since he's outnumbered, he retreats. When the rebels invade Kirigakure, he ends up fighting a very pissed off Shikamaru, who's obviously here to avenge Mari (especially knowing that only moments before her death, Shikamaru promised Mari that she would be safe). Karitoriki hypocritically accuse Shikamaru of targeting innocents, even though it isn't the case at all. He also argues that once Yagura wins, Kirigakure and Water Country will be at peace once more and that there will be no more violence. Even though Yagura started said violence in the first place. Shikamaru eventually defeats Karitoriki, and immobilize him with his shadow jutsu, before sticking 20 explosive tags all over his body. When Shikamaru points out Karitoriki's death is going to be no different than the five hostages', Karitoriki gives a Hannibal Lecture to Shikamaru, claiming that the latter is no different from the former since Shikamaru took a path of revenge much like him. He dies laughing madly as Shikamaru blows him up. Shikamaru later proves Karitoriki wrong, when Hinata points out that unlike Karitoriki, Shikamaru regretted enjoying killing him, but killed him to ensure that no one else is hurt by Karitoriki's actions.

What makes him personally despicable?

The guy's Fantastic Racism turned him into a madman hell-bent on genocide. Would Hurt a Child, Would Hit a Girl, he's pretty much ready to do anything to kill you if you have a bloodline, but not before enjoying torturing you.

Freudian Excuse? Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity?

He has a Freudian Excuse, but while it explains why he is so horrible, and would have certainly made him sympathetic if he didn't become the monster he is, it doesn't justify it in the slightest : He was from a village that was wiped out during the Third Shinobi World War by a Kemuri Clan shinobi. They were a clan of shinobi that had a Super Smoke kekkei genkai. His whole village was wiped out with the exception of ten people. Karitoriki was one of them. And neither his family nor his friends made it out alive.

No one is sympathetic in the slightest for him, especially knowing that due to his actions, Suigetsu went through a similar tragedy when Mangetsu was executed by Karitoriki. When he believes that Shikamaru will become just as much of a vengeful monster as he is, Shikamaru proves him wrong by actually not using Mari's loss as an excuse to hurt tons of people. In comparison, for one bloodline clan's actions, Karitoriki went genocidal against anyone who had a Kekkei Genkai.

Even his loyalty to Kirigakure is up to debate : he only joined the village after his home village's destruction, and joined Yagura's side only because Yagura started offing anyone with a Kekkei Genkai.

It also gives him a bit of complexity and personality, but at the end, it's very much implied that even that is thrown out the window, when he tells Shikamaru that he became his "legacy to this world" pretty much saying that Shikamaru is going to commit revenge against him just for the sake of revenge.

As for Evil Is Cool... Hashe (In Comorian : not at all/no) !

Verdict?

Up to you guys.

Finishing with two more Echoes candidates : Kitsune's world!Fugaku and Mikoto Uchiha on one part, and Ame!Verse Yagura on another part.

What's the work?

See Kenta's EP.

    Echoes - Kitsune's world!Fugaku and Mikoto Uchiha 

Who are Fugaku and Mikoto Uchiha? What have they done?

Much like canon, Fugaku is the Uchiha clan head, and Mikoto is his wife. Their marriage is an unhappy one... And then it lead to disaster.

Jealous of Kushina and Minato's marriage, they (more precisely Mikoto, in spite of being Kushina's best bud) revealed their location to Amateratsu (Kitsune's World!Madara Uchiha), which lead to the Kyuubi attack, which lead to Minato and Kushina's sacrifice and tons of deaths in Konoha.

Regrets? None.

After the Kyuubi attack, Fugaku contacted his nephew, Shisui, abused his loyalty to the clan, and had him brainwash Konoha's Inner Council so that they oppose any of the Hokage's policies that doesn't benefit the Uchiha (a coup in all but name, in other words). They also requested Amaterasu's help in taking over, not caring if Konoha is destroyed in the process (Fugaku went as far as to say that he'd rather rule over a grave that not rule at all) since Amaterasu will try to damage Konoha as much as possible on the meanwhile. When Amaterasu told them that he will consider helping them if they give him Kitsune (Insane!Naruto, who is still a child by that point), Mikoto happily accepts. Shisui, having secretly watched the whole meeting, realizes that he was essentially manipulated by Fugaku. Amaterasu, who decide against helping them because he's not fond of betrayal, gave a Breaking Lecture to Shisui. Driven to borderline insanity by these revelations, Shisui pulled a Thanatos Gambit by brainwashing Itachi into killing him, thus gaining the Mangekyo Sharingan and starting the Uchiha massacre. Much to everyone's relief, Fugaku and Mikoto weren't spared.

What makes them personally despicable?

Their sheer pettiness, ego and selfishness is a sight to behold. Because they were jealous of Minato and Kushina's happy marriage, they were totally willing to screw an entire village, with no care whatsoever for what happens next. They don't even love each other. They just happen to have common targets.

And with their coup attempt, they were willing to cause a ton of deaths. Fugaku stated that he'd rather rule over corpses that not rule at all. Despite claiming that they cared for their clan, they had no problem putting it in danger. In fact, even one of the Big Bads of the story, Amaterasu, was disgusted by them and gave them "The Reason You Suck" Speech. They didn't even listen, only proving him right.

Danzo (and pretty much everyone who had suspicions about them) was utterly and completely right about them.

Their supposed loyalty to the clan goes out the window when you know that they sell out Kushina and Minato to Madara without consulting the rest of the clan, thus putting the clan in jeopardy out of pettiness towards Minato and Kushina. Fugaku tells Shisui that the coup is for the good of the clan, but he just wants to gain power for himself. No need to mention that Fugaku had no qualms in manipulating his own nephew. On top of that, they're overconfident (Mikoto's ego is almost comparable to Alpha's), expecting Amaterasu to help them, without thinking that Amaterasu could betray them. Barring Teikoku!Obito, they might be the most selfish Uchihas in the fanfiction. No wonder Shisui went genocidal.

Freudian Excuse? Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity?

Nothing for Fugaku.

For Mikoto... She has a Freudian Excuse : Kushina (or Minato) rejected her advances so she had her, Minato and a good part of Konoha killed. Yeah. Disproportionate Retribution at it's finest. No better, absolutely no better.

But apart from that? No Evil Is Cool traits, no complexity.

Verdict?

For characters who appeared in only one chapter, and in flashbacks, it's surprising how unlikable they managed to be.

     Echoes - Ame-Verse!Yagura 

Who is Yagura? What has he done?

Much like canon, Yagura is the Fourth Mizukage. But unlike canon Yagura, who has been Brainwashed and Crazy, not only Ame-Verse!Yagura willingly and gleefully commits the brainwashed canon Yagura's crimes (which includes a graduation program in Kiri's Ninja Academy consisting of students killing each other, (in order to weed out the weak in favor of the strong) but he goes much further : with his "Blood Police", Yagura kills any "weak" civilian, shinobi, clansman and started a Final Solution to the bloodline wielders' question. When allying with Ame's Hanzo, he chose to kill Nagato, Yahiko and Konan not due to his alliance with Hanzo, but because he hated them, saying that he would have killed them even if he wasn't allied with Hanzo. After having killed Yahiko, he laughs at Konan while she cries over Yahiko's death, and mocks Hanzo when the latter regretted Yahiko. After being challenged with Hanzo in a fight by Kazama (the original Naruto) and Tsukiyomi (Kazama's World's Madara Uchiha), he almost kills part of the audience (I don't know, people from his own village) during one of his attacks, attempted to eat Kazama during the fight, and released the Sanbi from his body out of spite after his defeat, telling it to avenge him.

What makes him personally despicable?

Fantastic Racism and Final Solution, pettiness, social darwinism, Bad Boss tendencies (killed some of his own men for petty reasons), sadism and Kick the Dog tendencies (enemy and ally alike, as Konan and Hanzo can attest to). He doesn't even bother to be Faux Affably Evil, gleefully reveling in his villainy.

Evil Is Cool traits? Freudian Excuse? Complexity?

His sheer villainy is superior to any Evil Is Cool moments, and in the present day he's nothing more than a genocidal Caligula.

That said, he has a Freudian Excuse : when he started his rule, he suffered from a 0% Approval Rating, no matter how much he tried to improve the situation. The Sanbi then manipulated him into becoming a villain.

That said, since he now absolutely enjoys committing his crimes, and he's presented as a "all-around monster" his acts destroy any sympathy he could have had.

Verdict?

Up to you guys.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 25th 2019 at 3:58:47 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#930: Jul 25th 2019 at 6:54:33 AM

[tup] the above candidates. The "FEH!" was a nice touch. I was not expecting to see anyone else do that.

[down][down] Welcome to the thread. In order to make your tenure in this thread a positive one, I recommend expanding and reading the forum header.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 25th 2019 at 11:52:09 AM

Rawr.
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#932: Jul 25th 2019 at 8:31:56 AM

I do believe Damien and Paul from Pokémon should count and they should also stay if they are already there.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#933: Jul 25th 2019 at 8:38:34 AM

You can't just say both count without effort posting them.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#934: Jul 25th 2019 at 8:50:36 AM

I guess that means we have to effortpost Joffrey and Ramsay properly, although if the writeups for them are good enough and explain what makes them personally despicable, we can keep the entries as is.

Still, I recommend a proper effortpost.

Rawr.
Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#935: Jul 25th 2019 at 11:45:49 AM

[tup] to the above. Was thinking of Effortposting Grubba from Paper Mario TTYD if he hasn't been discussed before especially since he's not cool and his affable attitude to "Gonzales" is an act. The only thing that MIGHT save him from this trope is admitting Mario gave a good fight but then again, that's mainly for his Blood Knight nature.

Also I'm pretty sure Paul redeems himself in a later arc. Damien definitely is worth an EP though.

Edited by Klavice on Jul 25th 2019 at 11:47:39 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
kablammin45 Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward from Misty Brook (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward
#936: Jul 25th 2019 at 3:50:06 PM

Are we allowed to contest already existing entries on the pages? Because I feel like the entry for D.W. on the Western Animation sub-page is exaggerating her worst qualities:

  • D.W. Read herself is considered to be one of the most intentionally dislikable characters in the entire show. Given the fact that this show is a PBS Kids show that is impossible to put a traditional villain into, the creators did the next best thing and put in an annoying Bratty Half-Pint for the viewers to despise. She clearly exists just to be a pest towards her older brother, Arthur, only being nice to him whenever the plot demands it. In fact, some episodes show her to be somewhat of an Enfante Terrible to boot, two notable examples being "D.W. All Wet", wherein she voices her desire to see Arthur eaten by an octopus, and "D.W.'s Baby", where she tries to have her baby sister Kate trafficked out of jealousy, plus she can be manipulative and her treatment of Arthur is sometimes downright sadistic. She does manage to frequently escape punishment from her parents but she does fall victim to several misfortunes in quite a few episodes.

"I shall not be foolish again, my dear Gwendolyn!"
Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#937: Jul 25th 2019 at 4:41:05 PM

She's beloved by little kids, especially little girls, so if anything it's a Peripherary Hatedom. Pretty sure that is all played for laughs. "Oh hey, a little girl just put her sister up for sale."

I don't really see anyone from Arthur as a Hate Sink.

I'd also contest Angela Anaconda as I don't think we should be counting mentally ill people. That is very bad taste. You can't really be anything else if you have fantasies of eating your enemies.

Diamond Tiara, Blueblood and Neighsay from MLP can all be cut too as they are all redeemed either on screen or in a side story.

Edited by Klavice on Jul 25th 2019 at 4:49:35 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#938: Jul 25th 2019 at 4:54:31 PM

[tup] Governor, Basam-Damdu, Fugaku and Mikoto, Karitoriki, and Yagura.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#939: Jul 25th 2019 at 4:56:23 PM

[up][up] the fact they get redeemed isn't an automatic cut.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#940: Jul 25th 2019 at 5:19:46 PM

Author's intent has her as being what you'd imagine a realistic brat would be like.

kablammin45 Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward from Misty Brook (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward
#941: Jul 25th 2019 at 6:39:18 PM

I agree that it really does feel weird to call anybody from Arthur a Hate Sink at all. The only example I feel even comes close to one is the one other example from that show currently listed on the page (Cousin Cora) since I don't recall her ever being portrayed in a sympathetic light at all during her lone episode (it's been ages since I've watched said episode so I don't remember for sure).

I will also mention that the more exaggerated parts of D.W.'s entry on the page were added by a user who seems to have a personal vendetta against D.W. and has a history of claiming on the show's YMMV page that D.W. is a blackhearted Enfant Terrible who lives to make everyone around her (especially Arthur) miserable and tries to prove their point by taking scenes of her brattier behavior and painting them in ludicrously overblown contexts (such as painting D.W.'s fake illness in "For Whom The Bell Tolls" as a Moral Event Horizon because, supposedly, it was all a ploy to enslave Arthur and only that, even though the only reason Arthur was waiting on D.W. in the episode were because of circumstances in the episode that D.W. is way too young to have accounted for), so most of said entry probably doesn't even accurately reflect D.W.'s actual personality at all.

So should we cut D.W.'s entry and possibly Cora's as well?

Edited by kablammin45 on Jul 25th 2019 at 9:42:37 AM

"I shall not be foolish again, my dear Gwendolyn!"
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#942: Jul 25th 2019 at 6:59:53 PM

I think we should cut for now, and then EP.

Rawr.
kablammin45 Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward from Misty Brook (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward
#943: Jul 25th 2019 at 7:04:09 PM

Okay, done.

"I shall not be foolish again, my dear Gwendolyn!"
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#944: Jul 25th 2019 at 7:53:45 PM

Has Marc Brown ever said anything about D.W. being villainous? I assume this was far from the intention.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#945: Jul 25th 2019 at 7:56:11 PM

He had some say on how the TV show went? While the show was based on the books, it's very much its own thing now.

Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#946: Jul 25th 2019 at 9:10:50 PM

Out of curiosity, have Dalton and Queen Zeal from Chroni Trigger been discussed? They probably failed the heinous standard due to Lavos being behind pretty much everything but they have zero redeeming qualities, especially Dalton and while the Queen had good intentions originally, they're long gone by the time the party reaches 12,000 B.C. Plus the Queen uses Lavos to kill Crono .

Edited by Klavice on Jul 25th 2019 at 9:12:18 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#947: Jul 25th 2019 at 10:19:00 PM

[up] we don't use a heinous standard

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#948: Jul 25th 2019 at 10:28:31 PM

[up][up] Hate Sink can be any character as long as you can tell they are meant to be genuinely hated by the audience. If you feel they count, do an EP for them.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 25th 2019 at 10:29:07 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#949: Jul 26th 2019 at 3:25:26 AM

Also @Shadao

Gonna reply to your post earlier. This isn't even necessarily about His qualifications, more in line with how the Audience reacts to a Hate Sink.

"Mysterio has been on my mind in regards to Hate Sink. Namely, how Evil Is Cool can affect the criteria here. This is the kind of villain that people want to see more of. Heck, I recall how many people hoped he didn't actually die in the film. He's smarter than his comic book counterpart (even getting the last laugh on Peter), and he is delightfully hammy with his villainy. It's the reason why he was considered a candidate for Magnificent Bastard."

It's true some people view Mysterio as a Magnificent Bastard type of villain and enjoy his Hamminess, a good deal of the praise I've seen is people who like him BECAUSE Of how much of a Loathsome Bastard he is. The They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot part of the YMMV Mentions that some were disaponted cause they felt his supposed Fate wasn't Cathartic enough.

"The sequence where he does the Mind Rape on Spider-Man is a great tribuite to how Mysterio fights Spider-Man in the comics: surreal illusions with smokes and mirrors. It's possibly the best scene in the film."

I'm not disputing that, but Mysterios In-Universe actions in the scene are considered one of His cruelest moments.

My point is this, a Charachter being Popular doesn't necessarily mean the Charachter is Ineffective at being a Hate Sink or the Audience isn't having the intended reaction. As said before villains can be Popular BECAUSE there Loathsome bastards, The Spades King from deltarune or Dick Hardly from power puff girls are both great examples of that. I think Mysterio is another case of that, to provide an Example, one person I saw praising him called him "One of the most punchable villains in the MCU"

Edited by Kylotrope on Jul 26th 2019 at 3:27:11 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#950: Jul 26th 2019 at 3:25:58 AM

Not only don't we take the standard of heinousness into account for hate sinks, but as stated before, a hate sink can be anything on the sliding scale of vileness from a villany free villain to a complete monster. Fuck, at least three of my candidates are VFVs who fail the baseline of heinousness.

Now, let's hear that effortpost when you're ready.

[up]Yeah, audience reaction doesn't effect this trope in the slightest. It doesn't matter how many people consider him a viable candidate for an MB, being a Draco in Leather Pants is not even slightly enough to save a character from the author's intent. I assume Shadao was merely unsure as to how the narrative treats Mysterio, but to me, it's hard to believe that you are not supposed to hate Mysterio, or at least Love to Hate him, considering what a petty douche he was portrayed as, if Ravok and Kylotrope's EP are any indication.

Also, what is the actual tally for Mysterio? If he has 3 more [tup] than [tdown], he has to be added to pending writeups. That said, I cannot help but get the impression that the people who dismiss Mysterio as a Hate Sink are doing so because they are taking audience reaction into account, despite the latter having no sway on this trope. So I want everyone to clarify their stances on the matter, based on narrative alone.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 26th 2019 at 6:49:48 AM

Rawr.

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