Hate Sink cleanup

Sorry I haven't gotten to writting Chris Hooker's entry yet, I had got a little distracted. There's quite a bit of other Hate Sink candidates that caught my attention from way back when. One of them I also put on here before there was a thread.

Ironically I wanted to EP them on Father's Day because of how a number of them are father or father figures. I just never had time.

Beyond: Two Souls is a video game by David Cage which tells the story of the life of Jodie Holmes, a girl who grows up to eventually go in the run with the American Government planning to use her as a pawn (this game isn't subtle on how the government are bad guys, best represented by its Greater-Scope Villain and resident Complete Monster General [McCarth]. But that's not who I have in mind at the moment.

Now throughout the game and most of her life, Jodie has to put up with her fair share of assholes, but with a combination of psychic powers and a spiritual tether to her stillborn twin brother Aiden, Jodie finds a way to pull through. One of the earliest pricks of her life is her adoptive father Phillip Holmes.

Who is Phillip Holmes ?

Phillip and his wife Susan Holmes are Jodie's adoptive parents who end up taking Jodie in at birth for the DPA (Department of Paranormal Activity) when her birth mother is placed in a medically induced coma by McGarth. The Holmes family settle for a seeming suburban life, but still under the watch of the DPA. Jodie grew up but by the time she was eight, Aiden and her powers begin to manifest. Phillip becomes more strict, impatient and verbally abusive parent to Jodie, in contrast to the more stable, empathetic and caring Susan.

One winter, when Jodie was eight, she is encouraged to go play with neighbourhood kids...who quickly begin to bully her and one tries to smother her in the snow, before Aiden begins to intervene. Phillip walks in and does he stand up for Jodie and tell off the kids ? Comfort his daughter and see if she's alright ? Nah, he on her case for leaving the property and showing her powers ? Phillip starts to yell at Jodie and nearly smacks her before Aiden scares him down.

Later the player/Aiden can see Phillip and Susan begin talking about Jodie and the increasing paranormal activity. Phillip tells us how he really feels; clearly Jodie is a demon or monster in a little girls skin, and he's annoyed and confused that his wife would defend her. After an actual demon attacks Jodie in her room, Phillip and Susan decide the best course of action is to drop Jodie off in the care of the DPA, with Phillip eventually telling her that they decided to leave indefinitely, getting annoyed at Susan's emotionally goodbye. Should the player choose, Aiden can non fatally choke Phillip but all this will do is make Susan scared of Jodie and Phillip will have to be dragged out as he cusses Jodie out as being a "monster".

Despicability and complexity ?

Phillips not a cool guy so let's not even start with this.

As for complexity ? Well he and Susan do share a sad part where they had a child of their own who died in infancy before adopting Jodie. It's implied that this is part of the reason Phillip became disdainful of Jodie, and why Susan is so protective of her and unwilling to let go. It's also implied he has fundamentalist reasons for his disdain as a bible can be seen in the Holmes home, and Phillip's use of the word "demon" when describing Jodie and with it, is as scared and confused about the increasing paranormal activity surrounding Jodie (also there's the fact she is a genuine demon magnet, one of which attacks her in her bedroom in the Holmes house). He does have two small if fleeting Pet the Dog moments; he and Susan rush to Jodie's room during the demon attack, with Phillip kicking down the door; and Phillip potentially regretting leaving Jodie behind at the DPA, which is only really subverted if Aiden attacks him.

What makes him particularly hatable ? This game has a lot of assholes, people who pick on and antagonizing Jodie in an effort to make her as sympathetic a hero as possible, be it bullies, arsonists, demons, the government, and two attempted rapes. The Crying Child of FNAF 4 has it easier than her. As for Phillip, I found him one of the more personally despicable antagonists in the game on the front that he is one of Jodie's father figures, and a verbally and emotionally abusive one at that. On top of that, all this was happening when Jodie is seven or eight years old. He's (mostly) apathetic to her plights then and just as apathetic to his wife for caring for Jodie, getting annoyed when Susan defends her; describing Jodie as a demon or monster, never showing concern when she's nearly smothered in the snow, it's probably worth noting that if Aiden strangles Phillip, Jodie's other father figure Nathan will tell her she did the right thing, indicating he didn't even like Philip.

Phillip.

for Phillip.

Phillip.

to Philip.

Now...

What's the work?

The Flash is a Tv adaptation of the DC Comics charachter of the Same Name. Focusing on Barry Allen Who's mother died years ago, He's granted superspeed and becomes the Flash.

Major Spoilers for season 2

Who is He?

A Resident of the parallel reality known as Earth 2, James Zoloman was a Soldier who fought in the "War of the Americas". He was the Father of the Second Seasons Big Bad Hunter Zoloman. One night He had an Outburst and Killed his wife, But not before Making sure his son Hunter was there to watch it. After that he was arrested as His son was sent to an Orphanage of Fear.

What makes him Persoanlty Hateable?

According to Word of God he was an Abusive prick To his wife and Son, and in the show proper James Forces his son to watch Him kill his mother

Freudian Excuse? Complexity? Evil Is Cool?

Zip. He exists solely to give Hunter an FE. And ruthlessly succeeds.

Final Verdict?

Pretty easy keep.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 26th 2019 at 5:34:33 AM

James Zolomon.

James.

Time for me to try again. A while ago, I made a report that four candidates didn't get enough votes. I didn't get anywhere, so I'm asking again. Do you think they fit?

The Gold-Toothed Doctor from Fullmetal Alchemist and Blumiere's nameless father from Super Paper Mario need one or two more votes now.

Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 27th 2019 at 9:47:02 PM

Throwing in a to all four candidates. I’d say that Chisaki counts more as a zig-zagged example then a full subversion since he has redeeming qualities but is still shown to be unsympathetic and hateable.

In that case, I'll toss in a writeup for The Crowd. (It would go under "Humanity In General" on the Characters page.)

The Protomen: The crowd of humans are the most cowardly individuals in both albums. In Act I, they watch as Proto Man seemingly dies and do nothing, before demanding the revived Proto Man be killed for insulting them and degrading his memory. In Act II, they happily allow Dr. Wily to take over the city and demand the death of the innocent Dr. Light.

Lusamine is listed as a Hate Sink on Pokemon's page. Did that example go through the clean-up thread? With Lusamine's change in character since the original SM, I'm not sure if she counts. She's a villain but I think a lot of her hate comes from her being Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

For reference, the example:

• Lusamine in Pokémon Sun and Moon is one of the most horrible characters in the series at least originally. Just like Ghetsis she's an Abusive Parent. The main difference is that she has two children she abuses, she tortures Nebby to near death, sets the Ultra Beasts to invade and destroy Alola, freezes Pokemon to add to her collection and attempts to kill Lillie her own daughter. Until the end of the game she's a big case of The Sociopath and Vile Villain, Saccharine Show. However the end of the game reveals that she is actually a Tragic Villain that was brainwashed by Nihilego, making her similar to a drug addict, in addition the Ultra Beasts lost her husband.

Cut for now.

I found the only known example for Pretty Cure - available here under Masato Aisaki:

• He is introduced as an unlikable sexist Control Freak who disapproves of her tomboyish actions when she's playing the guitar for Ruru which he puts her down prompting Ruru to stand up for her and telling him off. He gets even worse when he tries to prevent Emiru from participating in the fashion show that Henri invited her to which also prompts him to stand up for her as well as he cross-dressing in a white dress. Fortunately the next episode, he quickly leaves this trope as he accepts Emiru's goals and supports her by giving her concert tickets for her and Ruru.

If anyone has a reason to him, speak and let the truth be told.

Maybe an effortpost to be sure?

What is the work?

Hideout is a one volume horror manga about a former writer who takes his wife on vacation one day so that he could kill her. But they both get caught in the rain with their car breaking down. They find a cave where inside is some humanoid monster who eats male stragglers and kept the women as prisoners.

Who is she? What has she done?

Miki Kirishima is Seichi's wife and the mother of the late Jun. She was having a falling out with her husband in light to the tragic death of their son...which was kind of her fault to begin with. One day while her husband was negotiating with his editor during work, she decides to go out and buy herself a purse, something that she obviously did not need to begin with. She tells her son that she was going out, and when she left, Jun went to get the laundry that was drying on a clothes line on the balcony. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened next. During the funeral of their son, rather than just acknowledge that it was an accident on both of their faults, Miki instead blames Seichi for the death of their son. Their marriage worsens, but Seichi believed that they could come to terms with the death of their only child and he proposes that they have another child and start over. Her response? Utterly disgusting. She chews him out on that idea and reveals that she never even wanted a child to begin with. She shuts that suggestion down and forces her husband to continue to cater to her needs.

When she learns about her husband's true motivations behind the vacation, she flees only to be captured by the monster lurking in the cave. After getting tended to by the monster, she tries to leave her husband to the mercy of the monster gloating that she would be the survivor. But then, the monster stabs her through the front of her head with a spear.

Freudian Excuse? Complexity? Evil Is Cool?

She outright stated that she never wanted a son to begin with. What more do you need?

What makes her personally despicable?

Being from a snobby, rich family. Not giving one lick of sympathy towards her husband's blatant unhappiness in the marriage. And that she blames him for their son's death even though it's hypocritical because she later confesses that she never wanted a child. Again, what more are you expecting out of her?

Verdict

I just absolutely despised this woman. I greatly wish that she'd be a CM because of how much I loathed her, but sadly, she wasn't heinous enough. So, this is the next best thing.

@Sky Cat 32 I'm a little late, but I think an effortpost should be a good idea as long as no reason against cutting Masato comes forward.

Miki Kirishima.

I spoiler tag the whole thing because Akio Ohtori's status as the Big Bad of Revolutionary Girl Utena is a major twist. It should stay this way in HateSink.Anime And Manga, but since he's a Walking Spoiler, this shouldn't apply to his character page. Feel free to edit in Hate Sink Drafts.

• Revolutionary Girl Utena: Akio Ohtori seems to be at first a rich gentleman and the only Reasonable Authority Figure in Ohtori Academy who wins the trust of his 14-year-old housemate, Utena Tenjou. In truth, he, under the alias of "End of the World", runs the Rose Duels that passes his sister, Anthy Himemiya, around as the docile Rose Bride to the victors, abusive or otherwise. He claims to be the only one who can love Anthy and save her from taking the Swords of Hate in his place as a Wicked Witch, but he has no qualms about raping her during their weekly tryst, letting the Swords stab her, using her as a meat shield against Utena, or ordering her to stab Utena in the back literally. He only sees his fiancée, Kanae, as a means to stay as the acting chairman, sleeping with her mother and implicitly disposing of her in secret. He seduces the blissfully unaware Utena, with her age making their sex questionable at best. When confronted, he offers Utena a chance to become his princess and leave Anthy in distress, telling her that she should stop fighting because "dresses don't go with swords". He refuses to take responsibility for his atrocities, going as far as to tell Utena that she has compromised her morals by sleeping with an engaged man and that Anthy enjoys being a Wicked Witch.

Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 29th 2019 at 8:27:40 PM

In regards to Lusamine, Game Freak was trying to do something more complex than your typical Hate Sink. In fact, she may be a good case study to deal with characters who initially appear to be Hate Sink but then have more character depth and sympathetic qualities at the very last minute. Include Severus Snape and Finn's father for good measure as well.

Miki.

Alright, I have two candidates for Batman: The Telltale Series. Technically it's three, but I'm getting ahead of myself. For now let's talk about Candidate Number One.

Who is Hamilton Hill? What does he do? Hamilton Hill is the corrupt mayor of Gotham City. Back in the day, he was in a partnership with Carmine Falcone and Thomas Wayne. At the beginning of the game, Hill is running for re-election against Harvey Dent, who's being backed by Bruce Wayne. While Hill makes no physical appearance in Episode One, he authorizes a warrant so the police can search Wayne Manor for incriminating evidence against the Waynes, which would hurt Harvey's chances of election. In Episode Two, Bruce finds out that Hill is in league with Oswald Cobblepot A.K.A. the Penguin. Bruce then pays Hill a visit either as himself or Batman. Regardless of the decision, Hill tells Batman/Bruce that Thomas Wayne used to unlawfully commit citizens to Arkham Asylum to gain their land and wealth. If Bruce visited Hill, he'll agree to tell him more, but only if Bruce agrees to stop supporting Harvey. If Bruce refuses, Hill angrily has Bruce thrown out. Hill is next seen at a live mayoral debate with Harvey. There, the Children of Arkham, led by Cobblepot, break in and hold the candidates and the audience hostage, Cobblepot "makes" - if you've played the game, you'll know why I put "makes" in quotations - Vicki Vale drug Harvey and Hill to force them to convince their true intentions for Gotham. Harvey goes on about how beautiful Gotham is, while Hill rants about how he wants to incinerate the poor. The Children of Arkham then show the audience a video tape of Thomas and Hill drugging Esther Cobblepot and commiting her to Arkham Asylum. A fight then breaks out between Batman, Catwoman and the Children of Arkham. When Hill is at Cobblepot's mercy, he, in a final bid for his life, confesses that he had the Waynes killed. This doesn't stop Cobblepot, and, despite Harvey's attempts to save him, Hill is shot to death by Cobblepot.

What makes Hill personally despicable? Hill is, at the end of the day, nothing more than a greedy politician who only cares about keeping his power, and is willing to go any lengths to do so, from driving the Cobblepots insane so he can steal their land and riches, from having the Waynes assassinated so Martha won't expose him.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse? Nay on the first and third. As for complexity? While Thomas at the very least loved his wife and son, and even Falcone speaks of the Waynes with genuine fondness, and acts fairly Affably Evil to Bruce at the start of Episode Two, there's no sign that Hill cared for Thomas or Falcone as anything other than business partners, and while he can act friendly to Bruce - giving him his cuff links and warmly telling him to call him Hamilton- he only does this if Bruce agreed to stop supporting Harvey. If he didn't? He just angrily has him thrown out of his office. Before Oswald kills him, he says he had the Waynes killed because he felt they were going too far, but in Episode Three, Oswald reveals in an optional conversation that the real reason he had them killed was because, as I already mentioned, Martha was going to expose him.

Verdict? A solid keep.

Edited by Connor2107 on Jun 28th 2019 at 7:36:10 AM

Hamilton.

Hamilton.

Here's two from Life Is Strange: Before the Storm. They both have entries already and both aren't very descriptive, I bring them up here, because one does have complexity issues. I'm gonna go with the easier one. Before the Storm is the prequel to the popular teen drama game Life Is Strange focusing on Chloe Price and the start of her friendship with Rachel Amber. It's less mystery focused than the first game, and more of a family drama, but I digress.

Here's the first candidate and someone who particularly gets under my skin, Eliot Hampden.

Who is Eliot ?

The games tertiary antagonist, named after (and inspired by) Eliot Rodger, Eliot is Chloe's obsessive "friend" who makes it no secret that he has an unrecruited crush on her, but was apparently there for her when her friend Max moved years ago and thus thought he was entitled to Chloe and her affection. Eliot visits Chloe a few times throughout the game, were he tries to hit on her. At one point, Chloe can go into his room and discovers he writes poetry...about his fantasies about murdering Chloe for rejecting him. He also isn't shy about showing jealousy/"concern" about how close Chloe is getting with Rachel, how much "influence" Rachel has over Chloe, and how Rachel is an object of Chloe's affection.

Later, when Rachel is injured and hospitalized by an encounter with the games antagonist, Damon Merrick, she has Chloe sneak into her house to confirm some suspicions about her father. During the stay, Eliot is also visiting the hospital visiting a mutual friend of his and Chloe's (also attacked by Merrick). Eliot follows Chloe to Rachel's house and corners her in Rachel's fathers office; he then begins to lay down the law to Chloe about how Rachel is a terrible person, how Chloe should be with him and how he deserves her and generally refusing to take no for an answer, slowly trying to force himself on her. Chloe can subtly call for help by getting police on speakers on the phone. Should she fail, Elliot will try to assault her in a fit of frustration, and Chloe will activate the security alarm. Either way, Eliot is arrested for breaking and entering, and/or stalking harassing, and is ultimately kicked out of Blackwell.

Complexity or posives ?

Maybe to incels and neckbeards, but no, Eliot is a creep, stalker and obsessive "friend" of Chloe's who thinks he's entitled to her because he was allegedly "there for her" when she was going through a bad time.

He is a Constrasting Sequel Character to Warren Graham of the first game, who is a nerdy kid who has an crush on Max and a genuine if awkward friendship with her (and can take Max's potential relationship with Rachel very well). Eliot ? He's based off of Eliot Rodger, immaturely believes he deserves to be Chloe's love (fantasizes about killing her for rejecting him in his "love poems") and takes her perceived relationship with Rachel, very, very badly; trying to gaslight and emotionally manipulate Chloe under the blanket of "concern for his friend" before snapping and showing that all he wants is Chloe to himself.

to Eliot

Here's Candidate(s) No. 2 (and 3) of Telltale's Batman.

Who are John and Patricia Vale? What do they do? They're Victoria Arkham's foster parents. In Episode Four, Batman investigates the Vale household, where he finds the Vales brutally murdered. In episode 5, after Alfred is kidnapped by Lady Arkham, Batman once again visits the Vales household, where he discovers a creepy Torture Cellar. Batman deduces that the Vales used this cellar to brutally abuse their adopted children, including Vicki and the boy from Episode Four.

What makes the Vales personally despicable? They adopt kids, and, for an unknown reason, chain them up in their basement, and whip them with a belt. They're pretty fucked up, to say the least.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse? The only thing we know about them is that they adopt and abuse kids. The nicest thing the Vale boy can say about them is that they gave him a home, which doesn't even begin to make up for brutally torturing their own kids.

Verdict? Another solid

Edited by Connor2107 on Jun 28th 2019 at 9:52:23 AM

Eliot and the Vales.