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So I did a tentative wick check of about 35 wicks.
Here it is. I want to make sure the criteria I'm looking at works before I look at the other 100 wicks for the check.
I think this tentative wick check supports most of the rules in the OP. For the rule about kids shows, I'm not always certain about whether it is or not, especially if it's an anime, so that may skew the stats a bit.
I think we may want to discuss Awesome Moments as it relates to this trope, not because there's proof of it being a problem (the wick check ain't done, yo), but rather because some things can be awesome and scary, and other wicks might combine the two. idk it's just something to pull from this partial wick check.
Notes and Things
Technically, every wick from something other than the YMMV/ or Nightmare Fuel/ namespaces are misuse (according to the Nightmare Fuel page), but I'm specifically looking for that which can help us determine (a) if these rules are applicable and (b) what direction we should go for this rule-making process and the inevitable clean-up effort.
NOTE: Two of the randomly selected wicks needed to be replaced or compensated for, so I used the wicks immediately preceeding them in the related page.
NOTE x2: Some wicks had multiple responses (e.g. "On the whole page there are good examples and bad ones"), but I only included the largest example or the response that was in the majority (e.g. by bullet counts). You can view all the responses in the "Evidence" section. The following responses had to be modified for not being in the majority for that particular wick. Note that this was already taken into account for the "Descriptive Statistics" section so you don't need to change those numbers based on this list.
A Good wick includes those that did not count as a Bad or Neutral wick. That seems like a no-brainer, but the way we've stated the rules and such make that sort of criterion a logical necessity. I included Ascended Fridge Horror if it showed up, and I also included those wicks from kids' shows if it's particularly notable. There was a comic, for example, that had a particularly terrifying issue, and I'd say that would count since nobody could have expected it, etc.
A Bad wick includes those that are normal for Bad wicks (from How To Do A Wick Check): Verbal Tics, Sinkholes, Gushing / Complaining, General Misuse (defined as "no clear explanation as to applicability"). I also included, as Bad examples, any of the following:
A neutral wick includes a Zero Context Example. That's always how I think of them for these things since it could be a good wick or a bad wick but there's no context to figure it out. Also, if the entry was written in first person or something like that. There weren't many of these.
EDIT: This folder was messing with the other ones.
I'll need to break this folder when I post the finished wick check.
edited 17th Aug '17 7:13:44 AM by WaterBlap
That is a lot of good work there Water Blap.
Perusing your results it is not a promising indicator initially. The numbers may balance out a bit more if you really want to crunch the rest of the wicks.
Do the wicks include the sub-pages?
edited 15th Aug '17 7:39:01 PM by TuefelHundenIV
Added YMMV.Chaosic Rune to the cut list since the only example is a zero context example
Since there's over 14,000 wicks, 6 wicks aren't really gonna affect the set (that's less than 0.05% of the total wicks). Also, the last number in the random set is 14,045, so if I were to tack on those six wicks to the end to see if they'd be added there's, like a hundred wicks between.
'Kay but I'm still including that in the wick check, which is why I didn't cut it yet.
Total Wicks in this Tentative Check: 59
I might not be able to finish this for a few more days, but I'll chip away at it. These are so much easier when it's just 50 wicks, lol.
Just a nitpick, but the statistical power of a sample is not a function of the ratio between the size of the sample and the size of the thing sampled. 6 is still too low, though.
True but Water Blap is continuing work and it looks like the general trend for the 59 some odd wicks is holding. It is looking like the whole thing needs a work over period with all the other problematic wicks like sinkholes and ZCE.
edited 17th Aug '17 12:25:18 PM by TuefelHundenIV
Something I thought of about this rule:
Perhaps we could reword it like this:
I think that is a good add.
Yes, that's a good qualifier.
I would like to point out that My Little Pony Friendship is Magic has many pages of Nightmare Fuel despite it being an all ages kids show. Look at this.
Long running or not, I doubt it should have that many examples. (Not that kid shows aren't with Nightmare Fuel but this doesn't make sense, that's more than Madoka or Evangelion)
Seems kind of odd and probably fulled with misuse. Not that I care about MLP much, I don't watch it.
edited 18th Aug '17 3:14:31 PM by ReynTime250
That was brought up on the first discussion thread, MLP FIM is absolutely overflowing with misuse and exaggerations. There are so many things that need to be cut from these pages, and I'd be happy to do it as soon as the rules are in place.
Looking at other pages, there's Pokémon Sun and Moon, so I've decided to review some examples.
Honestly this one could be considered decently scary if you're younger considering the contrast between this and previous games (Namely referencing death properly) but the last part is just meant to be a reference to the voice actor of Pikachu. I don't see how that makes it any creepier.
I don't think this is all that bad. That sounds weird but not something that would give me nightmares. Minor case of the Uncanny Valley at best.
Straight up cut, nothing more to say here.
Move to Fridge Horror page for the game.
Wall of Text incoming
The Ultra Beasts are mainly a minor case of Cosmic Horror Story so them being on the page is fair but there's a part of it that mentions Fridge Horror. I would cut that but leave the rest as it is. Also Lusamine is a complete psycho so her being there is very fair.
I would cut this and put it in the Tear Jerker page.
Other than that I'm not seeing any others as problems. The games were dark for an E rated title.
edited 18th Aug '17 3:33:32 PM by ReynTime250
That last one doesn't belong on Tear Jerker since it doesn't even actually exist. It's a purely fan-made invention. Just cut it outright.
Roger that, doing it now.
The other ones (Except Salazze's trial) I want more opinions on.
edited 18th Aug '17 3:46:22 PM by ReynTime250
I'd add that ghosts being a type of pokemon and thus a staple of the series, the (implied) existence of one shouldn't shock anyone.
After looking at those Pokemon examples, I'm wondering why spoiler markup even works on the Nightmare Fuel/ pages. I hadn't thought about it 'cause I always leave "Show Spoilers" on, but this seems like a page that you should expect to find spoilers for the work.
edited 18th Aug '17 4:26:54 PM by WaterBlap
That is a valid point, especially since Nightmare Fuel specifically says this:
Going by this rule, we already have the right to remove all spoiler tags from these pages. So go ahead and purge the spoiler tags wherever you see them.
Doing it right now, this may take a while.
EDIT: Took a lot quicker than I expected but it's now done.
edited 18th Aug '17 5:10:04 PM by ReynTime250
The Lusamine entry is legit (she's pretty messed up) but seems exaggerated and overly dramatic.
The Totem Salazzle and Pokemon Cemetary ones can be easily cut.
Do you mean you manually removed all spoiler tags from the page? Because there's a tool for that on Itty Bitty Wiki Tools.
Wow, this is really useful, wish I knew about that before I manually removed them all from the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure pages.
EDIT: The tool seems to sometimes insert � symbols or replace certain characters with that. Be sure to check for them before saving the page.
SECOND EDIT: The tool also leaves plenty of broken wicks due to sometimes removing the wrong closing brackets, removing it from a Pot Hole or external link instead of the ending of the spoiler tag.
edited 18th Aug '17 8:13:15 PM by Zuxtron
I keep forgetting about those tools.
So we want add or make any changes to rules proposed or does anyone have any other ideas or thoughts to add? It would help finish that part up so we can point to something more concrete and transfer it to the main NF page.
Just been checking out the Madoka page, not so bad except the abundance of spoilers and that there's a picture for every single episode. But that's Image Picking problems.
edited 19th Aug '17 6:37:09 AM by ReynTime250
There seems to be Nightmare Fuel/ subpages for Recap/ pages. Should those be moved to the main works page's own Nightmare Fuel page? I noticed that My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic had some of this. (There's also a devoted clean-up thread for that work's YMMV items).
I really don't think that a single episode is worthy of having its own page. Cut them, and move the examples to the show's Nightmare Fuel page.
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How well does it match the trope?