FanPreferredCouple Cleanup

Delete Rean/Jusis because they both have more popular ships with other characters and add in a mention that Emma is a romanceable option for Rean to the Machias/Emma entry so it's clear she has a creator preferred ship and perhaps specify that it's only her most popular ship, not Machias's. Other than that, it's good.

Done!

Okay the Comic Books page is a mess and we need to discuss it.

• The Batman franchise has numerous couples that fans prefer.
  • Many fans love Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon together (excepting the Dick/Starfire fanbase, that is). They've gone back and forth between being canon or not, but usually the two are incredibly close. While both had new love interests for a long while in the New 52 there was always tons of Ship Tease whenever the two interacted, and it seemed the writers for everything the two appeared in very much wanted the two together but just weren't allowed or something. The only love interest who got even a slight degree of support was Helena Bertinelli, who was in a relationship with Dick Pre-Flashpoint, and even then it was considered nice for a temporary romance, and as part of the Fish out of Water nature of Dick's series. Creator preferred.
  • Cassandra Cain, her most popular pairing from Cassandra/Stephanie, whose following, in itself, surpasses any of her canon love interests put together.Fine.
  • Bruce himself has had many girlfriends over time, yet the woman most fans want to see him with is Selina Kyle, Catwoman. Notably, the Golden Age versions of them were together and even had a daughter, Helena Wayne (the original Huntress), who has endured in the mainstream comics in spite of anything else that happens. Over recent years, Selina being presented as Batman's one true love has received a major boost in mainstream works—from the Dark Knight trilogy, to the Arkham video games, to the Gotham TV series, and finally to the comics themselves, this couple has received the same kind of fundamentally important treatment as other comic couple standbys like Lois/Clark or Barry/Iris. So it was particularity egregious for Bruce/Selina fans that after announcing that Batman and Catwoman would get married Tom King the writer back-peddled in Batman #50 with Selina being the Runaway Bride, with the crappy justification of "Batman can't be Batman if he's Happily Married" aka Status Quo Is God. Creator preferred and on most sites he is paired with Clark.

• Carol Danvers, the original Ms. Marvel and current Captain Marvel, became a potential love interest for Spider-Man following One More Day. After Spidey got her to go on a date with him, the two grow to be close friends (they bonded over a shared love of New York street food) and a battle where the Venom symbiote took control of her for a bit and hinted his crush on her was mutual. While it went nowhere because Spider-Man's then writer, Dan Slott, was against it, they remain good friends, and there is still a dedicated fanbase for the two - Carol's successor as Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan, openly ships them, to Spidey's bafflement. No creator preferred pairing mentioned.

• Due to his relationship with Daisy being rather rocky at best, Donald Duck has a few of these, the most notable being the one with Reginella, queen of the planet Pacificus, who he first encountered in the 1972 story "Donald Duck in the Underwater Adventure". She is considered a preferred option due her sweet nature, her tragic character, and being the one who actually has a chance (and would have already won four times had something not always forced their separation), and is still popular enough to have a song dedicated to her and to receive new stories once every few years. The fact that Scrooge approves certainly helps.Him and Daisy is more popular.

• Spider-Man/Mary Jane Watson. Mary Jane's relationship with Peter was mostly written out of the books following One More Day, and different love interests have been brought in to be Peter's romantic partner since (like Deb Whitman or Carlie Cooper). However, Mary Jane is still popular with many fans and from the very start of their relationship, many fans have preferred Peter to be with MJ. The duo remain a couple in some places, however, such as the Spider-Man newspaper strip and the alternate universe The Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows. The main universe version of Peter and MJ eventually got back together when Nick Spencer took over the writing of Amazing Spider-Man in 2018.
  • Back when Gwen Stacy was still Peter's official love interest, Mary Jane Watson's unexpectedly huge popularity with the readers was a serious problem for Stan Lee and John Romita. They tried a lot of things to tone MJ down and make Gwen more "exciting", which in some respects only lampshaded their problem as it made Gwen more and more resemble MJ, most notably by changing her original hairstyle into a variant of Mary Jane's. Stan Lee ended up writing later that even he slowly began to find Gwen less interesting than MJ.
  • Gerry Conway who succeeded Lee was a fan who ended up Running the Asylum (he was 19 when he wrote Spider-Man). He like the majority of older fans preferred MJ to Gwen, and so he wrote The Night Gwen Stacy Died which was all about getting rid of Peter's bland Designated Love Interest for as Conway put it, "the most interesting female character in comics at the time" and Peter and MJ under his pen became the Official Couple, which later went into adaptations where MJ often has Adaptational Early Appearance and is set up as Peter's number 1 girl right from the start. It should be noted that one of the more well-liked Spider-Man animated adaptations, The Spectacular Spider-Man, would have had Peter and MJ as the Official Couple but for most of the first two seasons played with the Love Dodecahedron of the comics. Unsure.
  • In the Ultimate Marvel universe, many fans prefer to see Peter paired with his one-time girlfriend Kitty Pryde due to having more in common and better chemistry with her than his Designated Love Interest Mary Jane.Him/MJ is still more popular.
  • After the team up comic Spider-Man/Deadpool, the Spideypool ( Spider-Man x Deadpool) pairing really took off. Due to their developing friendship and the huge amount of Ho Yay between the two. Including the two being "heartmates" and being friends in their old age. They have the second most fanfics together on Archive of Our Own for any Spider-Man media, after the platonic one between Peter and Tony, and the most for any Deadpool media.Fine but needs a rewrite.

• Owing to a series of continuity reboots, Superman has zigzagged all over with Fan-Preferred Couple status. When the New 52 launched, for the first time in the decades-long history of the characters, Lois Lane and Superman were the Fan Preferred Couple, as he was paired with with Wonder Woman instead of his classic love interest. Wonder Woman/Superman had a staunch foundation of supporters, and furthermore had been teased as a pairing for many years, besides being an Official Couple in various Elseworlds stories. This departure from classic Superman—among others—proved ultimately to be more unpopular than not, so DC brought back the original Superman and Lois into the New 52 Universe for DC Rebirth, which saw the seeming death of New 52 Superman and Lois, only for Superman Reborn to reveal that they were still alive, that Superman and Lois were split into their pre-Flashpoint and New 52 selves, and upon the halves of both Clark and Lois remerging, and history being altered closer to the pre-Flashpoint one (including the Superman/Wonder Woman being Retgoned.Unsure especially since him and Bruce is more popular.
  • Outside New 52 and Rebirth (mostly), Wonder Woman is frequently shipped with Batman as a good number of fans prefer the Goddess and mortal man dynamic over the God and Goddess status with Supes and Diana, especially since Batman isn't usually put in the same situation as Steve Trevor in the comics. The clash between a godly heroine who has no qualms about killing and a dark Anti-Hero who refuses to kill makes for good chemistry, it's also helped by Bruce and Diana's relationship in the Justice League cartoon which was one of the best parts of the show. Interestingly Batman and Wonder Woman's Earth 3 counterparts Owlman and Superwoman are an item so even their evil Alternate Universe opposites get the hint. A few comics pull the Mayfly–December Romance and have the ageless Diana look after a dying Bruce which is quite the Tear Jerker. Their canon ones are more popular.

• Nightwing and Starfire, which naturally causes friction with the Batman fandom. Kory and Dick were consistently portrayed with a supportive, loving relationship that enabled both of them to grow as characters, and the ship quickly became an iconic comic book couple. Fans of the ship were not happy at the infamous break-up of their wedding and are even less happy at the constant downgrading of Dick and Kory's relationship in modern comics in favor of Barbara Gordon. Thanks in part to continued Ship Tease in comics, the 2003 cartoon, and the ongoing live-action show, the ship still has a massive fanbase who would love to see them get together again for good.Not only is it contradicted by the above batman one but it is creator preferred here and on most sites he is shipped with Jason or Wally more.
• Just try finding a fan who ships Donna Troy with her (late) husband, Terry Long. You might find a few people who still defend the wedding issue of New Teen Titans as a classic; but Terry's demanding behavior, coupled with the large age gap between the pair, meant that the ship itself quickly became Condemned by History. No one was upset when the two divorced, or when Terry eventually died. Marv Wolfman thought that Donna would be happiest with an older man, but fans did not agree, and preferred seeing Donna with Kyle Rayner (a ship that Wolfman himself hated).Seems okay.'
• Beast Boy/Raven is very popular, particularly given the overlap between fans of the comics and fans of the 2003 cartoon. They've been on and off for several years; while attempts have been made to pair the two with other characters, none of them have really stuck, and it's far and away the most popular pairing for both characters.Sounds creator preferred

• Wally West has had several love interests in the past, both the comics and out of them, but fans of the character pretty much unanimously ship him with his long-time wife, Linda Park. So much so that them being apart in the DC Rebirth era caused a lot of controversy and is generally seen as a big example of how DC messed up his return by refusing to let the two reunite. They were such a well-regarded couple that the TV Series' versions of the characters are shipped together despite never interacting and the fact Linda was a Romantic False Lead for Barry instead is seen as a huge They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character by fans of the comics.Creator preferred.

• For a long time Wolverine/Jean Grey was a lot more popular than the well-established, long-term Cyclops/Jean Grey. The love triangle was popular enough to persist in most adaptations of the characters, but once Cyclops hooked up with Emma Frost, and Jean Grey stayed dead for a longer time than she stayed alive, the ball was thrown back up into the air as to what was preferred. In 2010s stories, Marvel eventually killed off both Wolverine and Cyclops, meaning that all three members of the triangle were dead. In late 2017/early 2018, Marvel announced surprise resurrections for both Jean and Wolverine, with Scott eventually being resurrected in 2019 as well.Unsire her and Scott are more popular on a lot of sites but I can't tell for sure as I'm not a big X-Men fan.

• In X-Man, one of the strangest versions of this emerged with Nate Grey (the titular X-Man) and Maddie Pryor. Nate's surname (and being Cable's counterpart) should clue you into the beginning of the weirdness - but that was just the tip of the iceberg. The UST was gleefully played up by the writers, and Maddie became an epic scale Tsundere: she murdered Nate's other girlfriend at the time, Threnody, and her very existence initially required her feeding on his psychic energy. Nate was disturbed when he found out who she was, but that didn't stop her. Oh no. Just take a look at the... suggestive I have no idea what to make of this one.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 21st 2023 at 12:54:48 PM

From what I can help above.

Cut all creator preferred ones, even in comics, where characters rarely get a stable relationship, you can at least kind of pinpoint what relationships are quite "canon" even if they're contradicting like the Nightwing ones.

Related to above, I kind of want to cut the Peter and MJ (with the exception of the historical one of when Gwen and Peter were the canon one, as that one's fine). Even after OMD, they're still quite creator-preferred, and just returned to on-and-off relationships, with most adaptations prioritizing the two still.

I don't know enough about the Ultimate Spider-Man fandom to weigh on that one. Spideypool I'm unsure, as while it is more popular for Deadpool than any of his other relationships from what I've seen, on the spider side of things, I'm not sure, but might be fine to keep I guess.

Uhhh, no, Lois and Clark is the most popular one from everywhere I've seen, although with Bruce is the second most common one of course. I guess this about the N52 era having Lois and Superman being Fan-Preferred Couple might be worth keeping on the same historical grounds as that PeterMJ one.

Agreed on cutting Batman and Wonder Woman. Donna's example is fine, although worth noting on it that Kyle was also canon, for as little as it lasted.

Lord, the X-Men triangle. I'm not sure what to with it, because while Jean and Cyclops are the Official Couple with little doubt, enough official stories have been written with Jean and Logan that I'm not sure about it.

Can't help with the X-Man one much, if Threnody is the fan-preferred one, the example should certainly be reworded, because as it stands, it only mentions Threnody in passing, while solely focusing on why fans dislike Maddie with him.

Small warning though, there are many parts of the fandom I don't interact, so I might be completely wrong on the popularity of some ships. I did what I could from my experience with it to help here.

Edited by JDMA12 on Apr 21st 2023 at 5:28:59 AM

I have usually seen the reverse on sites like on Twitter, Tumblr, and AO3 But this is mute as I wasn't really suggesting a Bruce/Clark entry be made mainly because I think that would only really count in the Justice League fandom. Within in the Superman fandom it's Clois that is the most popular. Does that make sense? I would also be fine with keeping the new 52 Clark/Lois as a historical example.

Spideypool counts in the sense that even if you ignore the evidence for it being Peter's biggest it's easily Wade's and Wade has multiple canon girlfriends everything else.

That does seem worth noting in Dana's entry.

Yeah the X-men love triangle is a mess of different writers and adaptions having different preferences either way.

Yeah I can't really tell who is the fan or creator preferred with the X-Man example.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 21st 2023 at 3:46:52 AM

I agree with all your assessments Bull.

Sym-Bionic Titan

• Fan-Preferred Couple: Many fans choose to ignore Tartakovsky's statement that Ilana and Lance are supposed to have a platonic relationship. To be fair, the show itself has plenty of Ship Tease between them.

No mention of a creator preferred couple. Maybe Platonic Writing, Romantic Reading?

Yeah, looks like a misplaced example.

I say move it to Platonic Writing, Romantic Reading or some other trope because as writen it doesn't seem to be this.

There were a couple of other characters who Lance and Ilana sort of got teased as developing relationships with, as noted on the trope page, but the show got axed before that really got anywhere so it's hard to say if that plus Genndy's word on their relationship (which I've never read firsthand myself) can count as creator-preferred.

I think it depends. The word of the creator beyond saying he preferred a specific ship can't count as creator preferred, but how big was these ship teases?

Huh, it turns out 16yo Racattack bookmarked the exact interview where Genndy talks about Lance and Ilana's relationship. Neat.

So yeah, he intended for Lance/Ilana to be platonic. I don't recall him ever saying anything about the ships that were intentionally teased in the show in any interviews, though. Moving the example to Platonic Writing, Romantic Reading feels like the play here.

Edited by RacattackForce on May 7th 2023 at 10:58:47 AM

I agree that, since there's no preferred fanon pairing over a canon one, that it sounds closer to Platonic Writing, Romantic Reading.

Yeah. It doesn't seem to count as this but it is indeed the other thing.

Is this FPC example in I Was a Teenage Exocolonist valid?

Besides the lack of sufficient context, this game has Dating Sim elements, and even if I haven't seen all of it yet, I don't think there's evidence towards a Developers' Desired Date to determine which pairing with Sol is the "canon" one.

I don't think it counts because it isn't consistently canon I think. I also don't feel several viewers complaining about it = the community prefers this couple, so I agree that it lacks context.

Yeah I don't think that counts either.

I removed these from FanPreferredCouple.Western Animation and YMMV.The Ghost And Molly Mc Gee:

• The Ghost and Molly McGee: While the show would introduce Oliver as Molly's love interest in the second season, with the characters having a mutual crush on each other, many fanworks still pair her up with her best friend Libby or rich girl acquaintance Andrea (especially the former). This is mostly due to Molly having a season's worth of moments and scenes with the girls before Ollie joined the cast, and the show gathering a LGBT Fanbase that came off the back of fellow Disney Channel show The Owl House.
• Fan-Preferred Couple: While Oliver/Ollie is Molly's love interest and crush in canon, many fanworks still pair her up with Libby or Andrea, especially when it comes to the former. This is most likely because of Molly having more moments and scenes with the girls (as well as meeting them first long before Ollie came along) and the LGBT Fanbase the series has gathered.

Now I think this counts but unfortunately the season he was introduced in is still on going and there's a one month waiting period for when a work or season ends before we can add this trope.

Edited by Bullman on May 20th 2023 at 11:15:58 AM

From Video Games:

• On a good number of sites for Final Fantasy VI, fics and fanart for Terra/Celes rival those of the canon Locke/Celes; there's even at least one fangame that rewrites the plot of the fourth game to feature the two. This is despite the fact that Terra and Celes only interacted about twice canonically, and are rarely together even outside of that except when the entire party is in unison (Terra vanishes not long after Celes joins the party, and returns just in time for Celes to leave again, and by the time they're both playable again, the cast size has hit double digits). Fans of the pairing tend to cite their strong parallels and contrasts, their status as dual protagonists, and their potential for intriguing interaction. (This may be paired with seeing Locke as a bit of a creep.)

Okay here's the thing this does rival Celes/Locke on a lot of sites and is easily one if the two biggest ships in the fandom, but on no site that I found does it surpass Celes/Locke. It would be fine if I could one website where surpassed the canon, but, since I cant, I don't think this counts.

Yeah, same here. Celes/Locke was easily the most popular ship I've seen for the game back when I was deep into its fandom, and I don't think that would have changed that significantly, nor does it really have seemed to when I checked. Terra/Celes is better off in Ships That Pass in the Night.

Edited by AlleyOop on May 20th 2023 at 11:19:54 AM

From YMMV.Yellowjackets.

• Fan-Preferred Couple: Shauna is married to Jeff in the present and had an affair with him in the flashback storylines, but most fans and fan content instead ship her with Jackie due to their Les Yay filled friendship in the flashback storyline. For example, Shauna/Jackie have the most fics for the show on AO3, with over 200 as of this writing, easily outnumbering Jeff/Shauna. Even Jackie's death has done nothing to stop their being shipped, with many Fix Fics being written where Jackie lives and gets together with Shauna.
  • In addition, the pilot episode was directed by executive producer Karyn Kusama, best known for directing the cult classic horror-comedy film Jennifer's Body. If one paid close attention to the cinematography, they might notice that some scenes could serve as cinematic parallels between Jackie & Shauna’s relationship and Jennifer & Needy’s relationship.

This counts but I don't see what the second bullet has to do with this trope.

Second bullet just looks like irrelevant trivia to me.

I don't see how the second bullet is related either. Plus, the indentation is incorrect.

Okay removed the second bullet.

I was wondering. Do we want to make a Chad/Ethan entry as that seems more popular than him and Tara?

Edited by Bullman on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:48:32 AM

Makes sense. Ethan doesn't really have a love interest though and his creeping on Tara's not that.

That said, yeah Chad's is still legit Tara so it makes sense if more ship him with Ethan then. Poor Liv. Haha.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 4th 2023 at 8:39:10 AM