Marvel's Spider-Man has an abnormally long Broken Base for a a show that premiered less than three months ago.
- Broken Base:
- Peter's personality in the first short. Some love it, praising the portrayal of the character as Adorkable and more obviously geeky than his Ultimate Spider-Man portrayal, who's been criticized for being too stupid for most of the series. Others feel the show is trying way too hard to play him up as a geek, to the point he no longer speaks like a real person and gets somewhat annoying. In essence, complaints are going in the opposite direction.
- There's also the art style. Some think it looks cheap, which could possibly reflect the supposed mediocre nature of the show. Others point out that it looks fine, a new art style helps indicate it's of a different continuity than that of the other Marvel shows. Others however argue that the animation, backgrounds, and the character design lack the streamlining featured in The Spectacular Spider-Man which despite a limited art-style spared little expense in dramatizing the fight scenes and the rich detail of the New York City skyline.
- Similar to Ultimate Spider-Man, there's been debate over the de-emphasis of Peter's classic supporting cast in favor of the adjacent Spider-characters like Miles Morales, Gwen Stacy, and Anya Corazón. The argument boils down to whether the "Back-to-Basics approach" the show billed itself as taking should've also entailed more focus on Peter's normal supporting cast, or if this approach is fine since characters like Miles, Gwen, and the normally underutilized Anya all have their dedicated fanbases.
- In the fourth short, some people actually prefer The Scarlet Spider outfit, due to its very cool modern makeover and a good lead up to the classic Spider outfit. While others prefer the outfit that was eventually chosen for its original design, as well as being a nod to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
- Much like with Spider-Man: Homecoming, there's some debate about Peter attending a STEM school. As detailed in the They Changed It, Now It Sucks! section below, some fans argue that it ruins his underdog appeal, since he's no longer the proverbial big fish in a small pond. Others note that (much like in Homecoming) Peter attending a STEM school makes far more sense than the alternative, since in 2017 it stretches the Willing Suspension of Disbelief to claim that someone as obviously-brilliant as Peter Parker would still be attending a public high school. They also point out that Peter attending a STEM school would provide him with much more expectations and challenges, something that did pop up rather quickly. Critics still point out that it compromises the verisimilitude since the series is set in New York City, when state-of-the-art STEM research and bleeding edge technology is associated with MIT (and Boston in general) or Silicon Valley, and by making Peter and his classmates rival geniuses, the series makes Spider-Man far less relatable than before. However, others feel that Peter attending a genius school and being the principal's personal assistant simply puts that much more pressure to perform on Peter's shoulders rather than just having him be a Normal Fish in a Tiny Pond, which would highlight Peter's "underdog" status
- The general way people tend to hate either Spider-Man or Peter in this series has been diverse. While it is indeed a staple of the comics with most of the people in Peter's life becoming annoyed with him due to being unaware of his hero life in early stories and general misunderstanding on the hero side of things. The way it's handled in this series, however, comes off as rather forced. Many a review have already mocked the Anya example due to the fact she couldn't seem to realize the danger her device was causing in the first episode despite it being fairly obvious (she was right next to it when she activated it). Later on,however, she simply seems to joke about it a bit. Harry also rather quickly grows to distrust Spider-Man just for the Spider-Slayer incident with no clear motive other than just an assumption. Some don't mind it too much since it at least gets the plot moving to get to other plot points faster. But some would rather these gradually build up and be more believable such as it was in The Spectacular Spider-Man.
- This isn't specifically about the show itself, but rather the state of how recent Spider-Man projects are. Even before the trailers and teasers came out, many people weren't pleased about having yet another Spider-Man show that focuses on him as a teenager trying to balance his social life, school life, and superhero career, feeling that it's getting tired and redundant, and that Marvel is refusing to let the character grow, especially considering the vast majority of interesting stories with an adult Peter Parker. Others defend the idea, or at least don't mind it too much, since Spider-Man is meant to be the first teenage superhero who can stand on his own, his teenage persona is far more recognizable, and the two earlier shows that focused on a more adult Peter Parker have been commercial and critical failures. Not helping things are how some of the adult Peter comics are divisive.
- Peter's scientific method, and overall nerdy attitude. Some people welcome it with open arms, being as Pete's geekiness in the other adaptations (particularly Ultimate Spider-Man) was rapidly becoming an Informed Attribute, but others feel like it's being crammed down their throats with how smart he is.
I had no idea this series even existed, so I can't comment on the validity of those examples, but that is just painful to read through, so my subjective opinion is that at least some of it has to go.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm not familiar with that show, but many of these appear to have been written either before or right after an episode had aired, and they don't seem to really be major, Flame War inducing issues that split the fanbase into two opposing factions.
Re: Dangonronpa, why not just redirect it to the main Broken Base page and move the valid entries there? That way anyone who goes searching for Dangonronpa Broken Base entries will be redirected to the place where the few valid entries currently live.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
Waxing Name just added (or readded) this entry for Fire Emblem.
edited 19th Oct '17 11:06:10 AM by RAlexa21th
Where there's life, there's hope.
Mad Archivist
I'm not seeing the no middle ground criterion, cut it. Nor the "exceptionally vicious conflict". Most people lean on one side or another but won't start a war with somebody stating the oppiste opinion.
edited 19th Oct '17 11:11:56 AM by Yumil
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
He didn't re-add anything, to clarify. That said, can an archtype count as a character anyway? I mean, those are generic examples, instead of specific members of the archtype being an issue. It's pretty clearly misuse due to this factor too.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
It had been agreed upon that most of BrokenBase.New Danganronpa V 3 did not qualify, so even if we can't cut the page, I may as well just trim down all the petty squabbles while we figure out what to do with the subpage.
I also noticed that other games in the franchise have dubious Broken Base entries. I'll start with Super Danganronpa 2 since it has only one:
- The LP translation for this game on the Something Awful forums included several attempts at Cultural Translation, which were met with mixed reactions; for example, there were accusations that the translation was overly liberal to the point of harming characterization.
The first Danganronpa has quite a few more, however:
- There are a fair amount of people who were disappointed when it was revealed that Junko Enoshima was the mastermind. This might be partly because the JUNKOS meme became a Discredited Meme on Something Awful around the time that the Let's Play reached the last trial, and people had been arguing for and against its increasing credibility.
- The anime of the game is slowly causing this. Some fans find the adaptation disappointing since it has scenes that look like they came directly out of the game (such as executions and trial scenes) and there is nothing new, not to mention they cut down on many character-establishing scenes, while others enjoy it and are happy that it is so faithful and occasionally add up extra scenes that enhances the existing scenes (such as Leon's breakdown and desperate attempt to escape, or Kiyotaka's utter breakdown at Mondo being guilty and not defending himself).
- The Funimation dub takes it to a new level. Mainly by replacing the main cast (bar Bryce Papenbrook) with their voice actors. The explanation as for why is that they hold the rights of the anime before the game was a success in the west. However, because Funimation didn't shy away of hiring the original voice actors from other adaptations (Neptunia, Blazblue, Disgaea) that still makes people wonder why they didn't recast the original voice actors after the fact.
- This however, is explained further in the Blu-Ray commentary track. Bryce Papenbrook was available to reprise his role by chance; he was already at Funimation to record for Attack on Titan, and therefore was available for the dub. However, the scheduling conflicts and cost of travel to bring every other voice actor would have resulted in the production going over-budget, so the decision was made to recast the entire dub sans Makoto.
- The fashion sense of the Big Bad! Some think Junko fully deserves the title of the Ultimate Fashionista, and hold her up as an example of Evil Is Sexy. Others dislike her wardrobe and label her a Fashion-Victim Villain.
- Dangan Ronpa IF, too. Some people praise it for dwelling more on the relationship between Junko and Mukuro as well as making the latter an Ascended Extra. Others accuse it of making Mukuro a Mary Sue/Creator's Pet.
- The pink blood, especially in the anime. People who aren't familiar with the game thinks that it ruins the suspense and it's not as scary as real blood, while fans of the game accept it and see it as stylistic choice for censorship.
- The various differences in each translation, between the Let's Play, the fan translation, and the official localization. It's nigh-impossible to find people agreeing on which is better.
edited 19th Oct '17 8:00:31 PM by Zuxtron
I removed commented out examples from YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 7 E 25 Shadow Play Part 1 and YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 7 E 26 Shadow Play Part 2 on basis that the episodes haven't aired yet but someone added them back because they've been leaked.
edited 20th Oct '17 12:59:57 PM by Silverblade2
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Were they actually leaked or released officially in different parts of the world? I know that some areas get them earlier than the US.
BB entries are always too early, and at the very least, the actual episodes need to be released worldwide anyway before it's possible to remotely get a proper consensus. And that's unlikely to happen for a while after release as is. Call them here, please.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I've cleaned up the worst of the misuse on BrokenBase.New Danganronpa V 3 for now, since the cut didn't go through.
The Pea Mocker
From Metroid: Zero Mission:
- Broken Base: Is the remake better than the original? This seems to depend on whether you grew up with the original or not. Fans of the original often fall into the They Changed It, Now It Sucks! category, feeling that so much was changed and altered that it really doesn't feel like the original in any way and just billed as such for increasing the sells. The remakes defenders feel like the former crowd just have their Nostalgia Goggles on too tight to see how much more of an improvement the remake was of the original game, with tighter controls, better exploration and a lot more improvements from modern 2D Metroid games, to the point many feel it outbeats the other 2D Metroid game on the GBA at the time. Generally speaking, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who's True Neutral on both games, let alone someone who likes both equally.
This is mentioned again under They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:
- They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: Fans of the original NES Metroid game tend to hold this view, citing it doesn't really feel like the original game anymore with how much was changed and added. Those who haven't say this game is still really good regardless, though, so it shouldn't be a problem if you haven't played the original back in the day either.
Is this a significant enough divide in the audience to warrant an entry? I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that the original NES Metroid is better than the Zero Mission remake. On the contrary, most fans agree that Metroid hasn't aged very well and Zero Mission is a superior game.
... until SUDDENLY DINOSAURS.
No, the other one.
There are some who think the NES version is better, but I've never heard any sort of real controversy or flame wars about it. Disagreement is not the same as the kind of civil war the trope requires.
Personally, I like both.
Check out my fanfiction!
Goku Black
Yeah cut that and maybe change it to Fandom Rivalry as that would work Better although mention in the entry that it is downplayed.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm a little new to the cleaning up scene, so if there's nothing wrong with what I posted down below, gimme a holler.
From the Crash Bandicoot YMMV page:
- The fandom. Oh, dear God, the fandom. There are the fans who refuse to acknowledge any of the games not made by Naughty Dog and hate the later games, the fans who embrace the series as a whole, and those who only like the newer games and constantly hate on the Naughty Dog games.
- And the fans who love the Naughty Dog games, but believe the series steadily declined in quality after it was sold.
- It is generally accepted that Wrath of Cortex was better once the loading times were made more manageable in re-releases. Whether or not it was a good Crash game, good in comparison to the later series, or it just plain wasn't a good game at all is up to debate.
- There's a lot of fans who dislike all the post-Naughty Dog games except for Twinsanity.
- Crash returning in Skylanders has been met with mixed reactions. He was better received than Spyro due to his design being more faithful to previous designs however fans are torn about it. Many were expecting brand new titles instead of remasters of the classic games and being playable in the controversial-with-adult-gamers Skylanders. Others are happy to see Crash back and hope this paves the way for new titles in the franchise.
A lot of the examples either repeat themselves (3 out of 5 of them are about Naughty Dog games vs later games) or show bias (first example starts off with "The fandom. Oh dear God, the fandom." I feel like a lot of the examples should be merged together or cut out since a lot of it repeats itself over and over, but what do you guys think?
No, the other one.
Yeah, bullets 1, 2, and 4 should be condensed to one, if it's kept.
Bullets 3 and 5 don't describe anything more than differing opinions. Minor points, minor arguments. No fandom civil wars. They should be cut.
Check out my fanfiction!
Bullets 3 and 5 should be edited if they are kept. They're missing commas.
The fact that there are three separate listings on Naughty Dog vs. Other Developers seems to indicate that the bases aren't split enough to actually be broken.
The Sonic the Hedgehog page needs a huge amount of scrubbing. I'm going to take out the ones that obviously don't meet the requirements (characters being "barely announced" before having fan wars break out, or having 5 sides to a debate, any situation where one group is labeled "the indifferent fans"...)
edited 24th Oct '17 11:27:14 AM by VerySunshine
YMMV.Harry Potter And The Chamber Of Secrets
- Broken Base: "There's no Hogwarts without you, Hagrid" - followed by the entire Great Hall clapping. Fans are completely split down the middle on this scene in the film. It's either a Heartwarming Moment, or else Tastes Like Diabetes.
It's so minor I've never heard of this split before.
- Broken Base: At the end of Season 1, Gus killing Malvo rather than Molly, so that Molly and Malvo never even once have a scene together beyond a brief glimpse during the snowstorm shootout.
There's something missing. How is it divisive?
For the first one, I have heard that debate, but it's not even close to something most people passionately care about. (I tend towards thinking the Harry Potter fandom isn't really capable of having Broken Base examples at all - too many factions).
The second one, yeah, I can guess at, but doesn't make sense as it's written now.
No, the other one.
Yeah, the first one doesn't seem like a serious divide in the fandom. And the only thing I've heard people agree on is who was cast as Luna.
The second isn't an example as written. It describes an event in the series, but nothing about the actual trope, like what anyone at all thinks of it.
edited 25th Oct '17 9:44:57 AM by AnotherDuck
Check out my fanfiction!
Yes.
Delete the Harry Potter one. That definitely isn't a sustained and/or vicious issue among the fanbase.
The Fargo example is a Zero Context Example. If the example cannot be backed up, delete it.
edited 25th Oct '17 9:46:36 AM by BZL8
Mad Archivist
ooooooooooooooooooh great. Xenoblade Chronicles X . My bullshit sense is tingling.
- Some fans aren't happy about the protagonist being fully customizable whereas other fans don't seem to mind.
- Those who felt really refreshed by the all-British English dub cast of Xenoblade may be a bit miffed by the fact that the English dub will be voiced by recurring American voice actors due to the American origins of the crashed colony ship. However it's been confirmed that the English dub will be voiced by a mix of British and American voice actors.
- See Uncanny Valley: Either this is the worst example in current Japanese character design or it's part of the appeal and charm from Monolith Soft.
- Hiroyuki Sawano as the game's composer is near-universally praised; unfortunately, a split has occurred between fans who like having more musical tracks in the game containing vocals and those who don't.
- Black Tar
, similar to the main Leitmotif of Kill la Kill, another Sawano work, has turned largely divisive as to whether the rap and lyrics make the song more awesome or hurt it by being too Narmful. Others feel it's fine to have vocals in the battle theme, but the choice of lyricists and vocalists could've been better due to the Gratuitous English. The New Los Angeles theme has garnered a similar divide.
- The announcement of online multiplayer elements for the game in a predominantly single-player genre created an even bigger split between the fanbase regarding whether it's necessary for gameplay or a detriment to it.
- Some of the changes in the localization caused controversy, such as renaming the "Dolls" to "Skells", Skell being short for exoskeleton. Some think Skell is a more badass name befitting a giant mecha, while others think the name Skell is too Totally Radical or a Macekre since the term Doll is an explicitly Meaningful Name in the original text. Made more complicated since the word "Skell" is actually a slang term referring to hobos, and even then, some people think it's appropriate since that's what humans essentially are in this setting.
- Localization:
- When it was announced that 8-4 would be helping Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe localize the game, many were happy to see them on board, but many others have lingering resentment left over from their other localization efforts, like Azure Striker Gunvolt, Fire Emblem: Awakening, and Tales of Hearts R, which has caused increased anxiety among the fanbase regarding just how accurate the translation will be to the original Japanese version, and how much will be Bowdlerized.
- The above has come to a head with the discovery of altered outfits for Lin in the European version. Now the divide is between those who want Nintendo's head on a pike for continued censorship of its properties, those who decry the former as being pedophiles for wanting to see an underage character in skimpy outfits, and those who say it doesn't matter since it doesn't affect the core game.
- After the information embargo was lifted on the game, it also came to light that the western version axed the bust slider for female player characters, causing a divide between those who see its exclusion as censorship, those who say the slider as stupid/perverse anyway, and again those who really don't care because it has no effect on the gameplay.
- When it was announced that 8-4 would be helping Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe localize the game
- Rook being a Silent Protagonist. While that is debatable on it's own, what really caused contention was the lack of resolution to their arc. There are those who feel that they were a wasted character, primarily because the actual main characters of the story are Elma and Lin. Others feel that the side quests more than makes up Rook's lack of prominence in the story.
- The fact that the game still has some glitches (most notably the one that freezes the game when one tries to see the character bios on the affinity chart) and balance-breaking issues (the Prog Ares skells being able to decimate everything including Nemesis bosses) not addressed by Nintendo post-launch has angered some of the fanbase.
- The Reward Tickets are either considered a cheap way to get materials for no effort while other see them as a necessity as level 60 gear and Skells requires multiples types (and a lot) of materials from high-leveled enemies, some of them who only have a few or one of their species on the entire planet while others in the same camp say that Monolith Soft should had integrated the tickets without forcing the players to complete Squad tasks and Squadmissions via playing online and being able to get them through credits or Miranium.
half of this shit is pre-release guess. And then the other half is a mix of... random whining (seriously, the base is broken because prog ares is farmgod tier ? nani the fuck ?), things the base isn't split about (where in the hell is there a flamewar because rook is silent or because reward tickets exists ?)
The only remotely salvageable thing would be the whole localization debacle, but condensed into a single bullet point, and maybe the music one. and that's a big maybe.
edited 26th Oct '17 2:37:06 AM by Yumil
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Goku Black
I actually don't think music should be kept as the entry says it is near universally liked with only a few people with different tastes not liking it which is not quite a Broken Base as different people will like different music, so no issue there.
edited 26th Oct '17 6:09:50 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Nah, it's more like Sawano being praised because 90% of the OST is universally liked. Just that remaining 10% isn't, but it's very controversial due to the the quality of the vocals in them which quite a few fans dislike. The idea that it's the presence of the vocals themselves is not the problem though, so that first entry can be deleted. A lot of the issue comes down to people thinking the song shouldn't be rap, or that having rap is OK but the particular rapper/singer combo sucks.
edited 26th Oct '17 10:12:17 AM by AlleyOop
Friggin page topper.
Maybe redirect it? I don't know where to redirect to, though.
edited 17th Oct '17 11:35:21 AM by Karxrida
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?