Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
the Retromancer
Just noting that MemeticBadass.Chuck Norris can stay if Memetic Badass is made NRLEP, since it's about a fictionalized version of the actor and not about the actor. Can be discussed somewhere else if it needs cleaning or merged with Chuck Norris Facts. Everything else is in foul with the policies.
Edited by Amonimus on Oct 15th 2022 at 8:59:45 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I would agree that the C-No examples can stay, it's not even indexed under the Real Life page anyways.
I'm more concerned with the page that lists everything from Legos to Voice Actors to Finnish politicians. Half are just memes without any explanation that make me realize how old I am ...
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
the Retromancer
How do ClusterFBomb.Real Life and PrecisionFStrike.Real Life look? I feel they may be too common.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
The Draftsman of Doom
- In 1984, the German Green Party member Joschka Fischer (foreign minister 1998-2005) said to the Vice President of the Bundestag (the German parliament) probably the most famous line of German post-war politics,
With all respect, Mr. President, you are an asshole!original quote
- A fine example from the Dáil, the Irish Parliament. Paul Gogarty to Deputy Stagg:
Paul Gogarty: With all due respect and in the most unparliamentary language, Fuck YOU, Deputy Stagg! FUCK YOU! I now apologize for—
Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Gogarty, that is most unparliamentary language.
Paul Gogarty: It is most unparliamentary language and I now withdraw it and apologize for it. - Barack Obama, on Kanye West's infamous MTV Video Music Awards interruption: "He's a jackass." The language may be tame compared to the rest of the examples here, but it's still harsher language than expected of the president.
- Obama's also looking for an ass to kick regarding that puddle of oil in the Gulf. His statements in the interview were immediately songified by Schmoyoho.
- In the wake of the 2015 Charleston church shooting, Obama used the N-word during a podcast when making a point about the epidemic called racism.
- Obama's also looking for an ass to kick
- Joe Biden, upon the passage of the Affordable Care Act, could be heard saying "This is a big fucking deal!" to Barack Obama after a nearby microphone picked it up (he probably thought that the microphones couldn't hear him at the time). Biden sort-of leaned into the phrase, as his 2020 campaign website said that any donations made by people were "a big freakin' deal". Biden would later describe Trump the only way he could (given his declining mental state) upon entering the White House as President for the first time upon discovering a virtual golf simulator Trump had installed in the White House.
What a fuck ass.
- John Kerry once referred to a secret service agent as a "son of a bitch".
- Twice. Long after the guy knocked him down while they were snowboarding.
- The "Shit Heard Round The World", as uttered by then-President Bush in conversation with then-P.M. Tony Blair. Neither man apparently noticed that they were on a live mic at the time.
- Before a speech during a 2000 campaign stop, an open mic caught George W. Bush calling New York Times reporter Adam Clymer "a major league asshole". It was made into at least one Stupid Statement Dance Mix.
- An especially fiery Special Comment excoriating G.W. Bush for "giving up golf" to show he supported the families of servicepeople he'd sent to die in Iraq, ended with journalist Keith Olbermann shouting "Shut the HELL up!" Viewers could tell he wanted to say "fuck", but was constrained by MSNBC's rules. On his web video series, he could drop all the precision F-strikes he wanted.
- Republican New York State Senator Roy McDonald, on crossing party lines in support of gay marriage:
You get to the point where you evolve in your life where everything isn't black and white, good and bad, and you try to do the right thing. You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, fuck it, I don't care what you think. I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm tired of Republican-Democrat politics. They can take the job and shove it. I come from a blue-collar background. I'm trying to do the right thing, and that's where I'm going with this.
- "To the members of the California State Assembly: I am returning Assembly Bill 1176 without my signature. Fuck you. Sincerely◊, Arnold Schwarzenegger." Spot the hidden message. Where is it? Years later, Schwarzenegger appeared on the Late Late Show to confirm what everyone else had suspected all along: that the vulgar acrostic was, indeed, deliberate.
- Brian Mulroney telling Peter Newman to go fuck himself. note
- After it was revealed that Obama won the 2012 election, a crowd uproared and praised at his democratic center in Chicago; the censors did not catch this, but a man screamed "America, Fuck Yeah!!"
- Apocryphally, George V was told on his deathbed he would soon be able to return to the resort of Bognor Regis; the King replied, "Bugger Bognor," and died.note
- The reality is just as obscene, however; the doctor injected the King with a combination of cocaine and morphine to ease his passing, which led the King to mutter, "God damn you."
- When Rob Anders blamed Tom Mulcair for Jack Layton's death, Peter Stoffer's response was to call Anders a dickhead.
- During a speech in the Canadian House of Commons in December 2011 on the Kyoto Protocol, then-Environment Minister Peter Kent was called a "piece of shit" by Liberal MP (and future Prime Minister) Justin Trudeau.
- In 1975, Swedish Prime minister Olof Palme referred to Francisco Franco and his government as "fucking murderers" ("satans mördare") in a speech after they executed several dissidents. The phrase went through Memetic Mutation in Sweden for years afterwards.
- In the late 1960s, the Swedish Communist Party (renamed Vänsterpartiet Kommunisterna, roughly "Communist Left Party" in 1967) faced several severe splits, with the maoist faction leaving in 1967 to form KFML, while the internal debate regarding the party's relationship to the USSR became fiery after the Prague Spring. The party chairman CH Hermansson responded to the split with what has later become celebrated words;
Nån jävla ordning ska det va i ett parti! (There should be some fucking order in a party!)
- Napoleon once said to his then-Minister of Foreign Affairs, Talleyrand: "You're a piece of shit in silk stockings."
- And from the same era, General Cambronne's famous word when asked to surrender at Waterloo. note
- Julia Gillard saying to the media "don't write crap."
- Historian Robert Conquest wrote a book, The Great Terror, about Josef Stalin's purges of the 1930s (and the poor response of Western intellectuals). Writer Kingsley Amis spread the (apocryphal) story that when Conquest was asked to suggest a new title for a new edition, Conquest responded, "How about, I Told You So, You Fucking Fools?"
- When remarking on snubbing some American generals and politicians at a cinema, Josef Stalin, as quoted by Simon Sebag Montefiore, remarked: "Fuck them!"
- In 2012 during a session of the Spanish Parliament in which were announced several budgetary cuts, among them to the unemployment subsidies, Andrea Fabra — congresswoman of the People's Party, the party that governed Spain in that year — was caught saying this:
Andrea Fabra: (...) ¡Muy bien, muy bien, que se jodan! ((...) Very well, Very well, fuck them!)note .
- In 1970, during hearings regarding labor practices in the Senate Caucus Room of the Russell Building, the future Hillary Clinton heckled Joseph A. Califano, shouting, "You sold out, you motherfucker, you sold out!"
- When attending the 1987 VSDA convention, then-MPAA president Jack Valenti had this to say about changes made to American copyright law just a couple of years before:
Jack Valenti: First offenders go to the Goddamn slammer, folks, we mean to put them there!
- How did former Mexican President Vincente Fox react to Donald Trump's promise to build a wall along the US border with Mexico and get Mexico to pay for it if he was elected President?
Vincente Fox: I declare, I'm not gonna pay for that fucking wall.
- President Franklin D. Roosevelt is quoted — most likely apocryphally, but the sentiment is certainly visible in US foreign policy of the time — as describing a Latin American dictator (most likely Anastasio Somoza Garcia or Rafael Trujillo) "He is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". You see, the leader(s) in question were running a People's Republic of Tyranny, but they were on friendly terms with the US.
- DNC Chair Tom Perez speaking about the Republican health care plan:
Tom Perez: They don't give a shit about people!
- Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) expressed similar sentiments during a speech to the Personal Democracy Forum at NY University.
- Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) expressed similar sentiments during a speech to the Personal Democracy Forum at NY University
- It has been fascinating to see how news agencies and shows have covered President Donald Trump's describing many immigrants as coming from "shithole countries". Many TV newsmen and newspapers have directly quoted the president at least once in their coverage; other sources like NPR will not use the word on air but will use it in their online articles. (This was made into one of the most pleasant autotuned remixes Schmoyoho has ever done.)
- And the foreign media in languages other than English was presented with the issue of a) finding a culturally appropriate equivalent and b) dealing with their own country's different standards on vulgarity. Some outright poetic results came about.
- Future President Benjamin Harrison cursed for the only time in his life when he discovered the body of his father, Rep. John Scott Harrison, in a medical school while looking for a much younger body snatching victim.
- During the Battle of Monmouth, General George Washington, who forbad profanity in his army, famously cussed out Major Charles Lee for an act of insubordination.
George Washington: I've heard a most disturbing report from a young fifer traveling in the wrong direction from the battle.
Charles Lee: Sir, I... I thought you a day behind us...
George Washington: Why are your men in retreat?
Charles Lee: Th-There's been some confusion, sir.
George Washington: There remains some. Why are your men in retreat?
Charles Lee: Circumstance prevented a proper advance, and I did not think a major action was in the best interest of America at this time.
George Washington: You did not think!? You damned poltroon, you never tried them! You should not have requested this command if you did not intend to attack! Cornwallis had only six thousand men with him! There were even two men within your command who had experience fighting against the Rangers! You should have consulted them! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ABOUT, MAN?!?!? - Prince Philip: "Just take the fucking picture."
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., in his Letter from Birmingham Jail, listed "when your first name becomes Nigger, your middle name becomes Boy (however old you are), and your last name becomes John" as one of many generic reasons why black people in the South during the Jim Crow era have found it severely difficult to wait.
- According to family legend in the Danish Royal family, the Queen's mother, Crown Princess Ingrid, reacted to the news that the Germans had invaded Denmark in 1940 by exclaiming: "Those SHITS!".
- The morning following the siege of the Capitol building by Trump supporters on January 6, 2021, Joe Scarborough, a former Republican congressman, went on a rant on MSNBC against the police for doing barely anything to stop them from invading the seat of American government while people of color get shot for minor offenses, in which he dropped an f-bomb on live television.
Joe: If these insurrectionists were black, they would have been shot in the face. And my God, if these insurrectionists were Muslim, they would've been sniped from the top of buildings. So I want to know from the Captiol Hill Police, what-what is it just white people? Or is it Donald Trump supporters? Why do you scream at people for walking across the street three blocks away from the Capitol? Why are you not as badasses around the Capitol? But then, Trump supporters come in and you open the fucking doors for them! You opened the doors for them and let them breach the People's House! What is wrong with you?
- Likewise, from Alexandria Ocasio Cortez:
- Ukrainian soldiers on Snake Island were told to surrender by a Russian warship during the 2022 invasion. Their reply?:
Soldiers: Russian warship, go fuck yourself! Original Ukrainian
- Beto O'Rourke, at the time running against Texas governor Greg Abbott, calls a heckler a "motherfucker" for laughing during a speech about school shootings.
In the most unparliamentary language, the politics section of PrecisionFStrike.Real Life alone is fucking overblown.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 16th 2022 at 8:35:06 AM
Rawr.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It is. I wanted to note this tidbit:
I can't tell if this is referring to Biden or Trump, but whoever this is referring to, it's a probable ROCEJ violation.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
the Retromancer
Why is CoolBoat.Real Life formatted like this?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
The Draftsman of Doom
I cannot understand what that is trying to say.
That's referring to Biden, and it's a definite ROCEJ violation.
How sweet it is
Poisonous Friend is now a disambiguation per TRS, so it's being removed.
Should False Friend take its place as a morality trope?
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
The Draftsman of Doom
Possibly.
So to summarize we have:
I agree these are both too common, they each have their own separate subpage full of times people have said the F word. Also there is a ton of politics examples which seem to be ROCEJ issues. I lean towards a crowner.
We cut Cool Plane because it was too common and full of needless gushing and whatnot. Looks like Cool Boat is in the same boat.
I guess this is more of a policy question because there is no RL section currently.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
The Draftsman of Doom
Fair assessments.
Given that Heroism Addict is slated to be merged into Engineered Heroics, I am thinking we should make the latter no real life examples due to being a morality trope.
The former trope has two real life examples (serial killer Niels Hogel as well as the general phenomena of firefighter arson) the latter has one example (a rescue dog who pushed people into the river).
Edited by randomtroper89 on Oct 16th 2022 at 4:52:24 AM
I guess the question is, does Engineered Heroics (like False Friend above) belong on the morality index, and thus be automatically NRLEP'd? Because it would be silly to crowner a trope with one or two RL examples otherwise.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
It's unfortunate that Precision F-Strike has gotten so overloaded with real-life examples, because there are a few (such as le mot de Cambronne or the reply in Arkell v. Pressdram) that have entered popular culture.
How is Your Approval Fills Me with Shame a morality trope? It's about character reactions, not moral judgements.
It's a reaction for when horribly evil characters say something nice about someone. In real life we try not to label people as horrible or evil, that would be a moral judgment.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Arbitrary Minimum Range and Arbitrary Maximum Range both strike me as impossible in real life (or possibly narrative? what's the gameplay tropes equivalent of narrative?). range limitations in real life are not arbitrary, but dependent on the relevant physics activity that causes the weapons to not function properly. the examples on both pages are full of this misuse; just "weapon has a minimum/maximum effective range", which is both Chairs and too common - every weapon has a minimum and maximum effective range. if it's not arbitrary, i.e. having no reason other than developer decision, it doesn't apply.
Oh god it's a swarm of military natter (milnatter?) How many different ways can someone add an entry about closing inside a person's swing/attack?
Anyways, you're right, it's narrative trope (video games have it for gameplay, but films/books will often have arbitrary ranges just to heighten suspense. Also I'm not even sure why we have two separate tropes for what is essentially the same thing, but that's a topic for another thread.
I'lld second the crowner.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
She / Her
(x4) While it's true that that involves a reaction, it also involves a hero getting praised by one of the following: a Sociopathic Hero, villain, or Anti-Hero.
EDIT:Yeah, making those NRLEP sound like a good idea.
Edited by RandomTroper123 on Oct 16th 2022 at 10:45:15 AM
Ok, so the crowner is at eleven entries, and there are five tropes that were discussed for crowner. I guess if sixteen is too many we can leave Cool Boat til next time.
- Cluster F-Bomb - Too Common, also ROCEJ issues with politics (and others) section. (added Oct. 18th)
- Precision F-Strike - Too Common, also ROCEJ issues with politics (and others) section. (added Oct. 18th)
- Arbitrary Maximum Range - Impossible in real life, weapon ranges are determined by the laws of physics and chemistry, not arbitrary. Attracting lots of military natter. (added Oct. 18th)
- Arbitrary Minimum Range - Impossible in real life, weapon ranges are determined by the laws of physics and chemistry, not arbitrary. Attracting lots of military natter. (added Oct. 18th)
- Cool Boat - Too Common, what makes something "cool" is subjective, attracts gushing and bloat. (added Oct. 18th)
EDIT: Changing to the 18th since it's less than twenty minutes away (east coast)
Edited by laserviking42 on Oct 17th 2022 at 11:44:10 AM
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
i think sixteen is fine for this one as long as we cap it there.
She / Her
I actually think sixteen is fine.
The mods have limited prior crowners at fifteen entries, which is why I said what I said, it's up to them and not really a debate.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
^^ Added.
Macron's notes