IP discussion: thread reasons, policies, other stuff

• New IP threads don't require approval by the staff to be opened. Still, the staff can and will lock threads with improper reasoning and warn the troper if needed. Please take time to review the guidelines below and make sure your request is solid before submitting it.
• A thread started within two weeks of the closing of a previous thread on the same page that doesn't have a concrete suggestion will be summarily closed.

• Also refer to: About Images and Copyright, How to Pick a Good Image, and Images On Wiki Pages.
• Going through IP for a page that doesn't have an image or an IP tag isn't obligatory, but it is strongly recommended. Otherwise, the image you put up may end up coming to the forum for work or replacement.
• Pages that have gone through IP should have a commented-out tag showing the relevant thread(s) and any related information. Always check for these before adding a pic or requesting an IP thread for a page. If a page does have a tag, please note its information when you start a thread.
• It's recommended to discuss image concerns and thread reasons in the threads that are pinned at the top of the forum before starting a new thread. They may be able to address the issue(s) without needing to start a dedicated thread.
• Keep the quality criteria listed below in mind when making an image suggestion.
• Work pages that don't have an image generally don't require an IP thread to upload one, but feel free to start a thread if you have multiple ideas.
• Animated GIFs can't be uploaded as page pics, so don't bother trying. (The pic on Creepy Changing Painting is a bit of HTML magic and not a true GIF, in case you're wondering.)
• In threads for specific pages, you may see people casting votes by referring to a post number and (if applicable) the number of the image in a given post. For example, "2" would refer to "the image in the second post", and "3.2" would refer to "the second image in post 3".
• We try to operate on "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, and we try not to change an image just for the sake of changing it. In reference to this, someone might call a suggestion a "lateral move". If the image on the page is not otherwise problematic, consider if your suggestion is a clear improvement before pitching it.
• It usually takes 5-7 votes for a pic to be considered to have consensus in a thread; pics can be put up with less than this, but usually only at a moderator's discretion.
  In crowners:
  • An option has consensus if it has a minimum of a 2:1 vote ratio.
  • If a crowner ends with no options having consensus, the crowner and thread are considered to be failed and the thread will be closed unless there is significant ongoing discussion.
  • Crowners normally run for 5 days, but can go longer if more time is needed, and can be closed early for the following criteria:
    • At any point, if the leading option has a vote balance of 10 or more and no other options have consensus. This is considered "super-consensus".
    • After 3 days, if the leading option has a vote balance of at least 8 and no other options have consensus.
    • After 4 days, if the leading option is the only one that has consensus.
  • Crowners can only be made by moderators and engineers, usually after discussion has stalled for a few days. Crowners can be requested by regular users by compiling and linking options in a post and hollering for it to be made into a crowner.
  • Non-moderators can add crowner options to an ongoing crowner, but cannot edit options they didn't add, nor can they call or lock a crowner. If you add an entry to an ongoing crowner, please note this in the thread.

High-priority image issues

• A pic has been changed or removed from a page for a reason that may not be valid, or no reason at all, especially if the pic was chosen by a previous IP thread. These changes can sometimes be simply reverted by a moderator without a need for further discussion.
• Not Safe For Work (NSFW)
  • If you're unsure on whether a pic fits this or not, bring it up in the IP Discussion thread.
  • Classic works of art containing nudity, such as Michelangelo's David or Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, don't necessarily fall into this, but appropriateness for the page in question is the key factor, and SFW options should be considered whenever possible.
• The image is a spoiler. The age and/or infamy of the work the image originates from may prevent this from being considered a valid issue.
• Watermarking. A TV channel emblem on a screencap is a "bug", not a true watermark, and is permissible as long as it's not obtrusive.
• Meme-based images are not permitted as page pics. The sole general exceptions are Image Macro (for obvious reasons) and a work's Memes page, where they should only be considered if there are no better options.^{Other exceptions}TLP Bump, Screw the Rules, I'm Beautiful!
• A page has an image that is obviously from the wrong work / programming block / network / etc.
• Copyright issues:
  • The pic implies TV Tropes is claiming the copyright.
  • The pic has been taken from a site that deals in copyrighted images or videos, especially if a watermark has been removed and/or the site is selling their content. Screencaps from videos from these sites are not permitted, either.
  • The image is the entirety of a product for sale, such as a t-shirt design.
  • Images from illegally obtained materials, such as leaks or camrips, are not allowed.
  • Using an entire work:
    • Basically, if it's copyrighted, we have to get permission to use it. This covers single-panel cartoons, photographs, entire comic strips and webcomics, and similar works. If permission is granted to use a work, it's always noted on the page in some fashion, usually in the caption and/or with the page tag. If an artist requests a specific way to display their connection to the pic, we'll do our best to honor it.
    • The creators of xkcd and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal have given us carte blanche to use entire works as needed. Permission notices for such cases aren't required.
    • Entire cards from card-based games like Magic: The Gathering are impractical but can be used. Using the art from these cards is fine.
    • Any such work that's in the public domain is free to use.
  • Some creators do not want their work used outside their control at all, but fair use means that we are not legally bound to honor this for the wiki's purposes, aside from the aforementioned restrictions. We'll honor a take-down request, but it's up to them to send it. We're not obliged to chase them down and ask them what their policy is. Fair use also allows us to use excerpts of works without seeking permission. In this case, the minimum needed to get the trope across should be used.
  • Per the site owner, AI generated images are allowed on TV Tropes and will be treated just like regular images.

General reasons

• Multiple suggestions for a page without a pic. Single suggestions are currently being filtered through the Image Suggestion thread instead of getting their own threads right off the bat.
• The current pic doesn't adequately demonstrate the trope. Examples of this include:
  • Just a Face and a Caption (JAFAAC)—the pic shows an example of the trope but relies on familiarity with its subject(s) to make the connection to the trope evident.
  • A pic that is nothing but text, or one where the text overwhelms the imagery. "May/Might as well be a page quote" is often used to describe this. There are exceptions (Spoof Aesop, for example), especially for dialogue-based tropes, but generally we want to have actual images as page pics with just enough text to support the expression of the trope.
• Poor image quality. Graininess, motion blur, and compression artifacts are three of the most common problems. Before starting a thread for this reason, see if the Quality Upgrade thread can help find or create a nicer version of the image. Replacing images with a better-quality version is a free action, i.e. can be done without starting a thread.

If the size value in a pic's coding is larger than the actual size of the pic, it will stretch the pic to that width which will introduce artifacts. Check the image's properties before starting a thread; if this is the issue, a change to the coding will fix it.

The age of some works may make getting a truly high-quality image from them difficult. This will be taken into consideration when deciding on a pic.

• The current pic is taken from a multi-panel work such as a comic strip or webcomic and uses more than half of the source material.
• Fan-art on a work page instead of an image from the work itself.
• The current pic is overly fanservicey, especially in the Creator/ namespace. In the case of Fanservice tropes, pics should be as low-key as possible while still getting the trope across.
• Two trope pages have the same pic.
  • While it's preferred that they be separate, a trope page can have the same image as a work page or a character image from a Characters subpage. In these cases, a thread should have at least one replacement suggestion for either page.
  • Similarly, graphics can generally be reused among a work's subpages. Threads that address these will still be accepted, but should also have at least one replacement suggestion.
• You believe you have a suggestion that better illustrates the trope than the current pic (by Image Pickin' standards, not "This is a cooler pic.")
• A page marked as No Real Life Examples, Please! has a Real Life pic.^ExceptionsEpic Fail, Tanks for Nothing
• A YMMV or Audience Reaction page has a pic that is not In-Universe.^ExceptionsAdorkable, Paranoia Fuel, The Scrappy
• A page has an unusual image arrangement not chosen by an IP thread and you don't think it works well, e.g. having two images on a trope page or an image that's a janky collage. Some pages may have multiple pics for a reason, so check for an IP tag before starting a thread in this case.

Invalid reasons

• Trying to solicit ideas for an image. IP has a cap of 60 threads and is usually at or near capacity on any given day, so space can't be allotted for threads whose only purpose is to brainstorm.
• Not liking an image's art style, layout/design, or any Photoshopping or similar alterations that may have been made, provided they don't impact the pic's quality.
• Claiming that a particular work is over-/under-represented. This can have some impact on deciding on a pic, but should never be the main gist of a thread.
• Trying to argue that a pic you liked wasn't chosen in a previous thread, especially if it lost in a crowner, or trying to make an invalid argument that a pic doesn't work for a page even though it was chosen by a thread. Repeatedly doing this is considered griefing and is grounds for suspension from the workshop forums.
• Some trope pages feature Visual Puns or other jokey pics rather than something that actually demonstrates the trope, usually because these pages have been very hard to find a better pic for.^ExampleWhat Happened to the Mouse? Don't request a thread just because you don't like the joke; if you've got an actual example, that's fine. Also, see the "Don't change the pic" section on the page mentioned below.

General cases:

• Pages within the FanficRecs/, Fridge/, Haiku/, Headscratchers/, ImageLinks/, Laconic/, PlayingWith/, Quotes/, Trivia/, WMG/, and YMMV/ namespaces and disambiguations default to no pic; YMMV.Home Page and Headscratchers.Home Page are the only exceptions. Pages in the Analysis/ namespace default to BUPKIS status (meaning they won't have a pic unless a really good one is found; see Image Pickin' Special Cases for more details)
• Due to their exceptional subjectivity and persistent problems with images being poor quality and/or not illustrative, Moments pages (Awesome/, Funny/, Heartwarming/, NightmareFuel/, Shocking/, TearJerker/) are limited to one image.
• Pages for unreleased works shall keep the first image that is uploaded to the page when it's created, with further pre-release images relegated to an Image Links page. Once the work is released, a thread may be created to decide which image is to be officially used on the page. See this Wiki Talk thread for details. Note that the first image may still be removed if it falls afoul of any of the aforementioned guidelines.

Text version:

Is the page on Image Pickin' Special Cases?

• If yes, start a thread.
• If no, does it already have an image?
  • If yes, is it a Moments (Awesome, Awesome Art, Awesome Music, Funny, Heartwarming, Nightmare Fuel, Shocking, Tear Jerker) subpage?
    • If yes, does it have multiple images?
      • If yes, start a thread.
      • If no, do you have any replacement suggestions in mind?
        • If yes, start a thread.
        • If no, use the Moments Images Cleanup Thread.
    • If no, start a thread.
  • If no, do you have more than one suggestion in mind?
    • If yes, start a thread.
    • If no, is it a work or creator page?
      • If yes, just add your suggestion.
      • If no, use the Image Suggestion Thread. (If the page doesn't have an IP tag, you can also just add your suggestion, but this isn't recommended.)