Franchise Kingdom Hearts Discussion

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07:13:09 PM Mar 21st 2017
edited by talewind
So what's this purported Bravely Default reference in KHX?
12:27:40 AM May 1st 2017
The Japanese version includes costumes, from Bravely Default and also several other games that don't have their own pages on this wiki; not knowing anything about any of the games, I didn't feel safe referencing any of them besides the one that did have a page.

There must be a way the page can actually explain all the references, now that KHX has started including smaller references in the form of costumes and medals. Something less unwieldy than what I suggest below.
08:09:43 PM Jan 26th 2017
The list of Disney and Square-Enix material that appears in the series is a bit hard on the eyes... might we replace the list of abbreviations with something genuinely informative? I figure a large change like that should be discussed first rather than just done, but I was thinking it would go more or less like this:

  • Aladdin — Agrabah appears as a world in KH, COM, KH2, coded, Days, and KHX.
  • Alice in Wonderland — Wonderland appears as a world in KH, COM, coded, Days, and KHX.
  • The Aristocats — A costume of Marie appears in KHX.
  • Bambi — Bambi appears as a summon in KH and COM. Costumes and medals appear in KHX.
  • Beauty and the Beast — The Beast and Belle appear in KH and COM. Their world, Beast's Castle, appears in KH2, Days, and KHX.
  • Big Hero 6 — A world based on this film will appear in KH3.
  • Chicken Little — Chicken Little appears as a summon in KH2.
  • Cinderella — Cinderella and the Fairy Godmother appear in KH. Their world, Castle of Dreams, appears in BBS, KHX, and 0.2.
  • Classic Disney Shorts — Many characters from the classic shorts appear throughout the series, most notably Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and Goofy, who appear prominently in every game, and Pete, who debuts as an antagonist in KH2 and has appeared in every game since. Their home world, Disney Castle/Disney Town, appears in KH2 and BBS, and in non-interactive form in KH, Re:coded, and KH3D. Timeless River, a world based on the very oldest black-and-white shorts, appears in KH2.
  • Disney Fairies — A costume of Terence appears in KHX.
  • Disney Theme Parks — Game mechanics based on the theme parks will appear in KH3.
  • DuckTales — This series' incarnation of Scrooge McDuck appears in KH2 and BBS. A medal of Scrooge appears in KHX.
  • Dumbo — Dumbo appears as a summon in KH and COM. A medal of Dumbo and costume of Timothy appear in KHX.
  • FantasiaKH featured several Fantasia elements, such as the enchanted brooms from The Sorcerer's Apprentice and Chernabog from Night on Bald Mountain. Yen Sid the sorcerer debuted in KH2 and has since ascended to the role of Big Good, appearing in BBS, Re:coded, KH3D, and 0.2. A world based on all of the fim's segments, Symphony of Sorcery, appears in KH3D. Medals appear in KHX.
  • Hercules — Olympus Coliseum, a world based on this film, appears in every game except for KH3D (and only mentioned in 0.2) and will return in KH3.
  • The Hunchback of Notre Dame — La Cite des Cloches, a world based on this film, appears in KH3D.
  • The Jungle Book — Medals of Mowgli, Baloo, and Louie appear in KHX.
  • Lady and the Tramp — A fountain depicting the film's two title characters is in Traverse Town and can be seen in KH, Re:COM, and KH3D.
  • Lilo & Stitch — Stitch appears as a summon in KH2. His world, Deep Space, appears in BBS. Medals appear in KHX.
  • The Lion King — Simba appears as a summon in KH and COM. His world, Pride Lands, appears in KH2. A medal appears in KHX.
  • The Little Mermaid — Atlantica appears as a world in KH, COM, and KH2. Ursula appears in KH3D. Costumes and medals appear in KHX.
  • Mickey, Donald, Goofy: The Three Musketeers — Country of the Musketeers, a world based on this film, appears in KH3D. Medals appear in KHX.
  • Moana — Moana and Maui appear on medals in KHX.
  • Mulan — Mushu appears as a summon in KH and COM. His world, The Land of Dragons, appears in KH2. Medals appear in KHX.
  • The Nightmare Before Christmas — Halloween Town appears as a world in KH, COM, KH2, and Days. Medals appear in KHX.
  • 101 Dalmatians — Pongo, Perdita, and the 99 puppies appear as a game-spanning challenge in KH. Medals and a costume of Cruella appear in KHX.
  • Peter Pan — Never Land appears as a world in KH, COM, Days, and BBS. Peter and Tinker Bell also appear as a summon in KH2. Costumes and medals appear in KHX.
  • Pinocchio — The inside of Monstro appears as this film's "world" in KH and COM. The film's actual world, Prankster's Paradise, appears in KH3D. Jiminy Cricket makes further appearances in KH2 and coded. Monstro is a Bonus Boss in BBS:FM, and medals appear in KHX.
  • Pirates of the Caribbean — Port Royal appears as a world in KH2.
  • Runaway Brain — Julius appears as a Bonus Boss in KH3D.
  • Sleeping Beauty — Maleficent is a recurring antagonist, appearing in every game except for Days and 0.2. Aurora also appears in KH, and Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather debut in KH2. Their world, Enchanted Dominion, appears in BBS, KHX, and 0.2.
  • Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs — Snow White appears in KH. Her world, Dwarf Woodlands, appears in BBS, KHX, and 0.2.
  • The Sword in the Stone — Merlin appears in KH, KH2, and BBS, and is mentioned in KH3D and 0.2. A medal appears in KHX.
  • Tarzan — Deep Jungle, a world based on this film, appears in KH. Tarzan material has been Exiled from Continuity ever since.
  • Tangled — A world based on this film will appear in KH3.
  • TRON — Space Paranoids, a world based on this film, appears in KH2. Medals of Tron appear in KHX.
    • TRON: Legacy — The Grid appears as a world in KH3D. A medal of Sam appears in KHX.
  • Winnie-the-Pooh — The Hundred-Acre Wood appears as a world in KH, COM, KH2, and BBS. Costumes and medals appear in KHX.
  • Zootopia — Costumes and medals depicting Judy and Nick appear in KHX.

  • Bravely Default — Costumes appear in KHX.
  • Final Fantasy in general — Moogles appear in every game in the series.
  • Final Fantasy VI — Setzer appears in KH2 and on a medal in KHX.
  • Final Fantasy VII — Aerith, Yuffie, and Cid appear in Traverse Town, and Cloud in Olympus Coliseum, in KH, COM, and coded, and all of them in Hollow Bastion in KH2, which also introduces Tifa. Sephiroth is a Bonus Boss in KH and KH2. Zack appears in Olympus Coliseum in BBS. Cloud makes another Olympus appearance in KHX, along with the entire cast as medals and some as costumes.
    • Crisis Core — Zack's appearance in BBS and KHX is inspired by his appearance in this game.
  • Final Fantasy VIII — Selphie appears on Destiny Islands, and Squall in Traverse Town then Hollow Bastion, in KH, COM, KH2, and coded. They appear as medals in KHX.
  • Final Fantasy IX — Vivi appears in KH2 and on a medal in KHX.
  • Final Fantasy X — Tidus and Wakka appear on Destiny Islands in KH, COM, and coded, and are mentioned in KH2. Auron appears in Olympus Coliseum, and Yuna and Rikku in Hollow Bastion, in KH2. They appear as medals in KHX.
    • Final Fantasy X-2 — Yuna and Rikku are in their Gullwings attire and accompanied by Paine in KH2 and KHX.
  • The World Ends with You — The main cast appear in Traverse Town in KH3D. Costumes and medals appear in KHX.
  • World of Final Fantasy — A medal of Tama appears in KHX.

There are three items on the original abbreviated list that are marked as "referenced" that I don't actually know what they're referring to, if someone could fill in those blanks:
01:56:22 PM May 14th 2017
I'm all for this. Regarding the Alice in Wonderland reference in KH 3 D, my gut instinct is that it refers to the Princesses of Heart being mentioned.
10:37:01 AM Sep 13th 2016
So, which page is stuff for 0.2 Birth by Sleep going to go on?
11:23:31 PM Sep 13th 2016
edited by jormis29
06:06:16 PM Jul 21st 2015
edited by troperHearts
Uh... is anyone going to add a Drinking Game for the series anytime?
03:11:24 AM Apr 11th 2014
Why is there so much gushing in the description? Shouldn't that belong in a review?
08:34:54 AM Apr 11th 2014
Yep, that doesn't go here.
06:28:36 PM Apr 15th 2014
Alright, in that case, I cut the following paragraphs from the article;

Another popular feature is its soundtrack, composed for the most part by Yoko Shimomura, which has become her most iconic work. Although some classic Disney melodies appear here and there, the vast majority are new scores. However, due to Shimomura's stellar work, you don't really wish there was more of it. Even those who don't like the series itself enjoy the music a great deal.

With a strong focus on The Power of Friendship, the game's combat is bloodless, yet action-oriented and extremely fun. The interaction between the two franchises, in particular, warmed the hearts of many gamers: for long time fans, much of the game's fun is in seeing Disney's Merlin befriend Cid Highwind, Auron fighting Hades, and Squall working on a mission with TRON. The combat system got extremely shiny and slick in Kingdom Hearts II, adding more situational abilities, more strategy, more speed, and almost doubling the number of enemies on screen during battle. Still, the series' content is appropriate for any age—but don't underestimate the Nintendo Hardness of some games because of that.

Proving incredibly popular, it has now become one of Square Enix's and Disney Interactive's flagship series.

06:38:30 PM Jan 19th 2014
Anyone think Sora is The Doctor?
09:06:49 AM Dec 29th 2013
So with KH 1.5 and 2.5 coming/being out will Dream Drop Distance be the only game unavailable to Playstation (non-handheld) gamers in some form or another?
11:04:52 PM Feb 14th 2015
For the time being. Once Chi has it's plot wrapped up and 3 has been final mixed those three will most likely packaged together as 3.5.
09:40:03 AM Nov 12th 2012
Okay, the mention of Aqua in the Big Bad entry makes sense to a point, but can we really call her a true Big Bad for trying to save her friend? If I recall correctly, a Big Bad is very clearly and always evil. Aqua definitely does not fit that bill. Sure, in hindsight, she made a mistakeóbut in the first game, Riku caused his entire world to be consumed by darkness because he purposely allowed it to have a hold on him. The gears he started turning nearly ended up in the destruction of all the worlds in the game, but nobody blames him! It sounds to me like it's just an addition from a fan who doesn't like the character. And the "Not true, actually" at the beginning sounds to me like discussion on the main page. I don't want to just erase it, so does anybody else agree?
01:20:30 PM Dec 21st 2012
Yeah, Aqua is absolutely not a case of Big Bad. If anything, it's a case of Nice Job Breaking It, Hero!.
04:33:07 AM Jun 14th 2012
Kudzu Plot- Who removed it from the main page and why?

It's not a YMMV trope, it's not a trope marked for cleanup, and it applies IN SPADES to the KH series.

I suppose someone may have removed it to make the series look better (as they did when it was removed from the main description), but if this is the case they are only making things worse; tropes are not bad and tvt is an objective wiki.

Unless I get an answer I'm putting it back on the page
06:40:01 PM Apr 28th 2012
So I noticed a while back that the Mooks are all named after a certain theme or concept from the game they're introduced. The Heartless are introduced in the first game, which also introduced (among other things) the concept of the heart. The game that actually introduced the Nobodies, Chain of Memories, introduced the concepts pertaining to memories (which are without the body). The Unversed are first given light in the prequel, which was the "unversed" story for half of the Xehanort Saga.

What I'm asking is, pretty much: Would this info go under Theme Naming or something else?
09:52:20 AM Apr 27th 2012
Should we move this page to Franchise.Kingdom Hearts?
07:38:07 AM Jul 14th 2012
But why Franchise/? Is there really any other medium that this covers aside from video games?
04:59:12 PM Jul 19th 2012
Yeah. There's a manga series, a novel series, and trading cards in addition to the games.
09:31:36 PM Apr 20th 2012
I don't have anything against him, but does anyone think that as the games go on, Axel/Lea is starting to border on Creator's Pet?
02:19:27 AM Apr 10th 2012
What happened to the accidental nightmare fuel pages? There's certainly enough scary stuff in the games to warrant it.
10:07:28 AM Mar 21st 2012
edited by jasperism
The running gag of Ven's drowned goldfish is pointed out/cameoed/referenced to in the Hannah Montana page as Scaley Joel Osment. It's also a form of Actor Allusion. Does it belong to the main page or not?
09:30:59 PM Apr 20th 2012
Well HJO wasn't the one who voiced Ven if that helps.
08:00:57 AM Feb 8th 2012
Okay, so Nobodies are the bodies of people who lose their hearts, right? So if Kairi's heart was hanging out in Sora for the first game, then is that comatose ragdoll Sora's trying to save. . . Namine?
08:13:45 AM Feb 8th 2012
No. If I recall correctly, Namine only came to be when Sora forcibly sacrificed himself in Hollow Bastion. That "comatose ragdoll" is just a heartless Kairi.
08:15:41 AM Feb 8th 2012
May I please have a link or quote or something for some solid evidence?
08:21:28 AM Feb 8th 2012
A Nobody isn't just a body without a heart. It's the Body when a Heart becomes a Heartless. Kairi's heart, on its own, was pure light, and incapable of creating a Heartless. It was only when Sora sacrificed himself and became a Heartless that he created both Roxas and Namine.

There isn't going to be any specific link or quote on this specific instance, but that's the mechanics of the 'verse.
08:23:04 AM Feb 8th 2012
Alrighty. Thanks.
11:04:37 PM Sep 28th 2011
Examples need details. Which characters, and what was the circumstance? Please see How to Write an Example before returning to Main.

09:41:39 PM Sep 14th 2011
Regarding Kingdom Hearts 3D and the (surprising!) appearance of Neku of TWEWY... how should we handle it? Should we rename the "Final Fantasy" characters for "Square-Enix" characters?
11:54:30 AM Jan 25th 2011
Wait, Lingering Sentiment was renamed? Since when?
02:19:29 PM Jan 25th 2011
Don't know, but it has been.

I presume it's something to do with re:coded.
06:55:41 PM Jan 25th 2011
From what I've heard, he's been renamed the Lingering Will. Hm, it doesn't really make quite as much sense as Lingering Sentiment, to be honest.
01:47:24 PM Jan 26th 2011
Lingering Sentiment doesn't make much sense either. Even less, maybe.
04:23:09 PM Jan 26th 2011
....Excuse me?! Lingering Sentiment made perfect sense, because that's what it is. Terra's lingering soul, taking refuge in his armor after losing his body to Xehanort. Will makes no sense whatsoever.
04:25:23 PM Jan 26th 2011
Its his armor, animated by the lingering willpower left over, the raw determination that was so strong it remains even after his heart left the armor. Makes perfect sense, or at least just as much.
06:51:14 AM Jan 28th 2011
In this instance, "Will" and "Sentiment" are essentially synonyms. His will that continued on, piecing his armour back together to fight Xehanort.
06:13:02 AM Feb 10th 2011
"Sentiment" in and of itself doesn't really convey the intensity of the armor's motivation. It's a very passive term. Rolls off the tongue, though. A lingering sentiment is something you might have for your first high school crush, not the burning, raging inferno of anger that drives you to remain vigilant for a decade.
10:19:26 PM Aug 29th 2011
I'm sorry, but is filing anything battle related under Combat Tropes really necessary? I mean, it would be better to individual stuff like Video Game Characters under Competitive Balance or weapons under Weapon of Choice or different elements under Elemental Powers. I'm just saying. I've already made these chances to Sora and Riku's character pages.
02:21:38 PM Sep 1st 2011
For the purposes of the game, all of those things happen to fall under Combat Tropes. I, for one, would prefer all those tropes under a single banner so they're easier to find and give you a better overall picture of the gameplay related to that character. Having to track everything down would make it less coherent.

I see you did indeed scatter those tropes back around. It's not that big a deal, and I certainly don't want to just revert someone else's hard work without justification. Could we get a consensus on which works better? I prefer how it used to be, with everything under Combat Tropes.
12:34:29 PM Dec 17th 2010
Regarding the Final Mixes of the games,

I remember reading on the Updated Rerelease section that Sony of America required a certain amount of new content for a rerelease to appear in the states. Even with that in mind, would offering the Final Mix content as DLC be feasible with current and future installments of the series, like an expansion pack? There's no packaging, nor the sentiment that players have been gimped and have to buy the game again. Since a DLC expansion would cost less to bring to market than a new game entirely (and correct me if I am wrong) , releasing the Final Mixes in this form should net enough revenue to be a profitable move. It's not like international fans of the series are uninterested in the bonus content, especially since a good amount of it is plot relevant - there's definitely a sizable market.

Note: that I am talking about feasibility, not probability - how easy and/or profitable it is for Square-Enix to bring the Final Mixes overseas and how much they want to do so are two separate issues entirely. I'm just curious how much hoop-jumping they would actually need to do to bring the Final Mixes here in any form. And I apologize if I'm bringing up a topic that's been discussed to death - I'm relatively new to the Kingdom Hearts franchise, and couldn't locate a similar topic on this wiki (if there is one by all means point it out).
05:37:42 PM Dec 19th 2010
edited by theoneyoucallwe
Um, since the main KH platforms are so far only for PS2, and PS2 doesn't have internet If you bought the expansion pack as something physical, like you could in a retail store (I think WOW Cataclysm is an example) then sure, but the only way currently would be to re-design the games for the PS3, and there's no way Sony is going to put in that much effort.

The thing about bringing Final Mix overseas is it would (probably) have to be localized—which sucks. It's why, say, Gackt can be hard to find in retail stores since the cover, the album, the lyrics, etc. are all in Japanese. We have "foreign music" sections in some places, but there's nothing even close to tht for video games.

And if it weren't localized, no one would have a clue what it said, or where to put it, since everything is in Japanese on it. Some who want the original KH 1 might pick up the PH 1 Final Mix+ accidentally or something.

TL;DR: buy it on Amazon, it's not coming to anywhere but Japan anytime soon. Too much hoop-jumping. :/
10:19:37 PM Dec 22nd 2010
edited by Goldenpelt
True, but that means if a Final Mix for Kingdom Hearts III appears (and any spinoffs too), it would be easier to bring them across the pond right? By the time those installments see the light of day, every single mainstream console will be capable of utilizing DLC easily. All of the current consoles are certainly capable of doing so. Also, aren't the Final Mixes bolstered versions of the PAL releases? Most of the localization's already been done, only the extras need work, and that has no voice acting at least, if past installments are anything to go by. Sure, there's some more work, but not enough to be unprofitable. If the Final Mixes didn't pass Sony's Updated Rerelease rule anyway, that's an indication that there isn't an incredible amount of material to localize.

If it's compatibility issues (by which I mean if the game has to be programmed to accept expansions from the get-go - I'm not too versed in the aspects of game development), Kingdom Hearts 3 won't start development until the completion of Final Fantasy Versus 13 - which isn't done yet. Or at least I believe that's the case (someone correct me if I am mistaken). It could explain why Birth by Sleep Final Mix may not see an international release.

With that in mind, how many people would buy a Final Mix as DLC in the future, and for what price? Would an appeal to Square-Enix before development begins bring such a concept closer to reality? Need opinions, guys and gals!

(Whew, I think I got all my questions out of my system now. Feels nice.)
10:25:18 PM Dec 22nd 2010
Crap. Need to work on my proofreading
04:34:11 PM Dec 7th 2010
edited by Butterfinger

For your information, the number of pouches, belts and zippers in this series is over 9000. And yes, it's Tetsuya Nomura's doing.

The caption was restored (a month later after the edit removing it) because it was hilarious and no reason was given for the edit. Quoting the edit that removed the caption:

the quote really has no relevance to the story/plot anyway; maybe it would be better for the Tetsuya Nomura page

For further elaboration, this caption, while somewhat funny, has no relevance to the story/plot. No one would understand any relavent information about Kingdom Hearts based on the information in the caption. If you take a look at the work page for the original KH game, the caption talks about info relavent to the game while being somewhat funny about it. However, zippers have NO relavence to plot/themes/characters/setting, only character design. As stated before, some variation for this caption would make more sense for the Tetsuya Nomura page, because he notably uses zippers in many of his character models, and it is something he is well known for.

I am not against a caption, but that particular caption has very little relavence to the series, and as such should not be the first thing someone sees when viewing the page.
10:16:02 AM Dec 9th 2010
Not only is it not relevant, it's just a tired old joke, yet another iteration of "lol Nomura likes zippers" that shows up nearly every time we mention Nomura.
11:22:30 AM Feb 26th 2011
So what if it's not relevant to the story/plot? I agree that there are more relevant things someone could see straightaway when looking at the page for the first time, and maybe that joke is repeated a lot .. But untill you can think of anything funnier or more relevant to replace it with, don't remove it. A caption that is slightly funny and conveys information with very little relevance to the series may not be as good as a very funny caption with extremely relevant information, but it's DEFINITELY better than no caption at all. I mean, I had no idea that the zippers were a Tetsuya Nomura 'thing', and found the link to the 'Zipperific' page very interesting. More importantly it made me think about the series in a way that I hadn't before. Now I count the zippers on KH and Final Fantasy characters. Before, the caption might have made the reader laugh and told him something some readers might not have known before. Now it doesn't because THERE ISN'T A CAPTION. Surely that's not an improvement
10:38:33 AM Sep 25th 2010
edited by
Just thought I'd ask, on the characters page, should we list tropes exhibited by individual heartless? (like theme nameing for the color-music types or Colossus Climb for groundshaker.) And if we do should we do the same with unversed and either give them their own section or combine their tropes with Vanitas.
05:30:20 PM Dec 19th 2010
That actually might be an idea, but we'd have to have it sorted in separate pages: KH 1, KH 2, recurring, etc. A lot of work.
11:34:55 PM Jun 3rd 2010
I put up a Does This Remind You of Anything? note on the Main page because we now have not less than three characters who are some freaky combination of Sora and Kairi. And then, when these characters merge with Sora and Kairi, they don't return everything to the one it originally came from. By the end of Kingdom Hearts II, a part of Sora has permanently become part of Kairi and vice versa. This could be cute, or it could be Nightmare Fuel, but this is on way of sneaking references to sex and parenthood into these games.
09:01:58 PM Sep 16th 2010
Possibly, but I don't think it was any attempt on the writers' parts, since they've been trying to downplay the relationship between Kairi and Sora. And its an abstract enough concept to distance it from what you see.
10:28:20 AM Nov 24th 2010
Still, adding Xehanort into the list of characters that blend together with other characters utterly defeats the purpose of what I was trying to say.
08:29:36 PM Mar 18th 2010
I must ask, why is this so popular?

I'm not gonna say that its "raping" Disney or anything, but its not much more than a JRPG series with ridiculous character designs.
09:03:06 PM Mar 19th 2010
Crossing-over a beloved franchise of over half a century with the lung-rippingly popular codifier franchise of JRPG's pretty much gave it maximum hype and exposure right out of the gate, which I personally think was the key. After that, the gameplay was genuinely fun enough to endear it to a most of the large number players whose attention it got, and then the Kudzu Plot kept 'em hooked.

Also, you cut skyscrapers in half and all that jazz.
10:18:25 PM Mar 19th 2010
I guess that makes sense.

I guess I just have leftover hatred from the FF/anime fanboy crowd that transfers over here.
12:01:57 PM Jul 16th 2010
KH 1 was a much more equal blend of Disney and Final Fantasy, but Nomura's the head writer, so I guess Nomura's writing what he knows.
08:32:20 AM Nov 2nd 2010
The series' writing has gotten way out of hand, indeed, but there are still several fun, redeemable aspects to the series (the gameplay, especially as of Birth By Sleep, is awesome for example.)
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