Franchise Kingdom Hearts Discussion

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CleverPun
Topic
03:11:24 AM Apr 11th 2014
Why is there so much gushing in the description? Shouldn't that belong in a review?
SeptimusHeap
08:34:54 AM Apr 11th 2014
Yep, that doesn't go here.
CleverPun
06:28:36 PM Apr 15th 2014
Alright, in that case, I cut the following paragraphs from the article;

Another popular feature is its soundtrack, composed for the most part by Yoko Shimomura, which has become her most iconic work. Although some classic Disney melodies appear here and there, the vast majority are new scores. However, due to Shimomura's stellar work, you don't really wish there was more of it. Even those who don't like the series itself enjoy the music a great deal.

With a strong focus on The Power of Friendship, the game's combat is bloodless, yet action-oriented and extremely fun. The interaction between the two franchises, in particular, warmed the hearts of many gamers: for long time fans, much of the game's fun is in seeing Disney's Merlin befriend Cid Highwind, Auron fighting Hades, and Squall working on a mission with TRON. The combat system got extremely shiny and slick in Kingdom Hearts II, adding more situational abilities, more strategy, more speed, and almost doubling the number of enemies on screen during battle. Still, the series' content is appropriate for any age—but don't underestimate the Nintendo Hardness of some games because of that.

Proving incredibly popular, it has now become one of Square Enix's and Disney Interactive's flagship series.

LastOfTheTimeLords
Topic
06:38:30 PM Jan 19th 2014
Anyone think Sora is The Doctor?
ChocolateRob
Topic
09:06:49 AM Dec 29th 2013
So with KH 1.5 and 2.5 coming/being out will Dream Drop Distance be the only game unavailable to Playstation (non-handheld) gamers in some form or another?
thatonebatman
11:04:52 PM Feb 14th 2015
For the time being. Once Chi has it's plot wrapped up and 3 has been final mixed those three will most likely packaged together as 3.5.
Xencal
Topic
09:40:03 AM Nov 12th 2012
Okay, the mention of Aqua in the Big Bad entry makes sense to a point, but can we really call her a true Big Bad for trying to save her friend? If I recall correctly, a Big Bad is very clearly and always evil. Aqua definitely does not fit that bill. Sure, in hindsight, she made a mistakeóbut in the first game, Riku caused his entire world to be consumed by darkness because he purposely allowed it to have a hold on him. The gears he started turning nearly ended up in the destruction of all the worlds in the game, but nobody blames him! It sounds to me like it's just an addition from a fan who doesn't like the character. And the "Not true, actually" at the beginning sounds to me like discussion on the main page. I don't want to just erase it, so does anybody else agree?
QueenofSwords
01:20:30 PM Dec 21st 2012
Yeah, Aqua is absolutely not a case of Big Bad. If anything, it's a case of Nice Job Breaking It, Hero.
CleverPun
Topic
04:33:07 AM Jun 14th 2012
Kudzu Plot- Who removed it from the main page and why?

It's not a YMMV trope, it's not a trope marked for cleanup, and it applies IN SPADES to the KH series.

I suppose someone may have removed it to make the series look better (as they did when it was removed from the main description), but if this is the case they are only making things worse; tropes are not bad and tvt is an objective wiki.

Unless I get an answer I'm putting it back on the page
DunDun
Topic
06:40:01 PM Apr 28th 2012
So I noticed a while back that the Mooks are all named after a certain theme or concept from the game they're introduced. The Heartless are introduced in the first game, which also introduced (among other things) the concept of the heart. The game that actually introduced the Nobodies, Chain of Memories, introduced the concepts pertaining to memories (which are without the body). The Unversed are first given light in the prequel, which was the "unversed" story for half of the Xehanort Saga.

What I'm asking is, pretty much: Would this info go under Theme Naming or something else?
Brainiac0982
Topic
09:52:20 AM Apr 27th 2012
Should we move this page to Franchise.Kingdom Hearts?
EarlOfSandvich
07:38:07 AM Jul 14th 2012
But why Franchise/? Is there really any other medium that this covers aside from video games?
Keyseeker
04:59:12 PM Jul 19th 2012
Yeah. There's a manga series, a novel series, and trading cards in addition to the games.
MosquitoMan
Topic
09:31:36 PM Apr 20th 2012
I don't have anything against him, but does anyone think that as the games go on, Axel/Lea is starting to border on Creator's Pet?
raptyr
Topic
02:19:27 AM Apr 10th 2012
What happened to the accidental nightmare fuel pages? There's certainly enough scary stuff in the games to warrant it.
jasperism
Topic
10:07:28 AM Mar 21st 2012
edited by jasperism
The running gag of Ven's drowned goldfish is pointed out/cameoed/referenced to in the Hannah Montana page as Scaley Joel Osment. It's also a form of Actor Allusion. Does it belong to the main page or not?
MosquitoMan
09:30:59 PM Apr 20th 2012
Well HJO wasn't the one who voiced Ven if that helps.
AndrewSloop
Topic
08:00:57 AM Feb 8th 2012
Okay, so Nobodies are the bodies of people who lose their hearts, right? So if Kairi's heart was hanging out in Sora for the first game, then is that comatose ragdoll Sora's trying to save. . . Namine?
Komodin
08:13:45 AM Feb 8th 2012
No. If I recall correctly, Namine only came to be when Sora forcibly sacrificed himself in Hollow Bastion. That "comatose ragdoll" is just a heartless Kairi.
AndrewSloop
08:15:41 AM Feb 8th 2012
May I please have a link or quote or something for some solid evidence?
MrDeath
08:21:28 AM Feb 8th 2012
A Nobody isn't just a body without a heart. It's the Body when a Heart becomes a Heartless. Kairi's heart, on its own, was pure light, and incapable of creating a Heartless. It was only when Sora sacrificed himself and became a Heartless that he created both Roxas and Namine.

There isn't going to be any specific link or quote on this specific instance, but that's the mechanics of the 'verse.
AndrewSloop
08:23:04 AM Feb 8th 2012
Alrighty. Thanks.
Camacan
Topic
11:04:37 PM Sep 28th 2011
Examples need details. Which characters, and what was the circumstance? Please see How to Write an Example before returning to Main.

Marche90
Topic
09:41:39 PM Sep 14th 2011
Regarding Kingdom Hearts 3D and the (surprising!) appearance of Neku of TWEWY... how should we handle it? Should we rename the "Final Fantasy" characters for "Square-Enix" characters?
SomeNewGuy
Topic
11:54:30 AM Jan 25th 2011
Wait, Lingering Sentiment was renamed? Since when?
AllanAssiduity
02:19:29 PM Jan 25th 2011
Don't know, but it has been.

I presume it's something to do with re:coded.
Komodin
06:55:41 PM Jan 25th 2011
From what I've heard, he's been renamed the Lingering Will. Hm, it doesn't really make quite as much sense as Lingering Sentiment, to be honest.
AllanAssiduity
01:47:24 PM Jan 26th 2011
Lingering Sentiment doesn't make much sense either. Even less, maybe.
SomeNewGuy
04:23:09 PM Jan 26th 2011
....Excuse me?! Lingering Sentiment made perfect sense, because that's what it is. Terra's lingering soul, taking refuge in his armor after losing his body to Xehanort. Will makes no sense whatsoever.
SchizoTechnician
04:25:23 PM Jan 26th 2011
Its his armor, animated by the lingering willpower left over, the raw determination that was so strong it remains even after his heart left the armor. Makes perfect sense, or at least just as much.
AllanAssiduity
06:51:14 AM Jan 28th 2011
In this instance, "Will" and "Sentiment" are essentially synonyms. His will that continued on, piecing his armour back together to fight Xehanort.
128.12.15.227
06:13:02 AM Feb 10th 2011
"Sentiment" in and of itself doesn't really convey the intensity of the armor's motivation. It's a very passive term. Rolls off the tongue, though. A lingering sentiment is something you might have for your first high school crush, not the burning, raging inferno of anger that drives you to remain vigilant for a decade.
websurfer
10:19:26 PM Aug 29th 2011
I'm sorry, but is filing anything battle related under Combat Tropes really necessary? I mean, it would be better to individual stuff like Video Game Characters under Competitive Balance or weapons under Weapon of Choice or different elements under Elemental Powers. I'm just saying. I've already made these chances to Sora and Riku's character pages.
illegalcheese
02:21:38 PM Sep 1st 2011
For the purposes of the game, all of those things happen to fall under Combat Tropes. I, for one, would prefer all those tropes under a single banner so they're easier to find and give you a better overall picture of the gameplay related to that character. Having to track everything down would make it less coherent.

I see you did indeed scatter those tropes back around. It's not that big a deal, and I certainly don't want to just revert someone else's hard work without justification. Could we get a consensus on which works better? I prefer how it used to be, with everything under Combat Tropes.
Corundum
Topic
12:34:29 PM Dec 17th 2010
Regarding the Final Mixes of the games,

I remember reading on the Updated Rerelease section that Sony of America required a certain amount of new content for a rerelease to appear in the states. Even with that in mind, would offering the Final Mix content as DLC be feasible with current and future installments of the series, like an expansion pack? There's no packaging, nor the sentiment that players have been gimped and have to buy the game again. Since a DLC expansion would cost less to bring to market than a new game entirely (and correct me if I am wrong) , releasing the Final Mixes in this form should net enough revenue to be a profitable move. It's not like international fans of the series are uninterested in the bonus content, especially since a good amount of it is plot relevant - there's definitely a sizable market.

Note: that I am talking about feasibility, not probability - how easy and/or profitable it is for Square-Enix to bring the Final Mixes overseas and how much they want to do so are two separate issues entirely. I'm just curious how much hoop-jumping they would actually need to do to bring the Final Mixes here in any form. And I apologize if I'm bringing up a topic that's been discussed to death - I'm relatively new to the Kingdom Hearts franchise, and couldn't locate a similar topic on this wiki (if there is one by all means point it out).
theoneyoucallwe
05:37:42 PM Dec 19th 2010
edited by theoneyoucallwe
Um, since the main KH platforms are so far only for PS2, and PS2 doesn't have internet access...no. If you bought the expansion pack as something physical, like you could in a retail store (I think WOW Cataclysm is an example) then sure, but the only way currently would be to re-design the games for the PS3, and there's no way Sony is going to put in that much effort.

The thing about bringing Final Mix overseas is it would (probably) have to be localized—which sucks. It's why, say, Gackt can be hard to find in retail stores since the cover, the album, the lyrics, etc. are all in Japanese. We have "foreign music" sections in some places, but there's nothing even close to tht for video games.

And if it weren't localized, no one would have a clue what it said, or where to put it, since everything is in Japanese on it. Some who want the original KH 1 might pick up the PH 1 Final Mix+ accidentally or something.

TL;DR: buy it on Amazon, it's not coming to anywhere but Japan anytime soon. Too much hoop-jumping. :/
Corundum
10:19:37 PM Dec 22nd 2010
edited by Goldenpelt
True, but that means if a Final Mix for Kingdom Hearts III appears (and any spinoffs too), it would be easier to bring them across the pond right? By the time those installments see the light of day, every single mainstream console will be capable of utilizing DLC easily. All of the current consoles are certainly capable of doing so. Also, aren't the Final Mixes bolstered versions of the PAL releases? Most of the localization's already been done, only the extras need work, and that has no voice acting at least, if past installments are anything to go by. Sure, there's some more work, but not enough to be unprofitable. If the Final Mixes didn't pass Sony's Updated Rerelease rule anyway, that's an indication that there isn't an incredible amount of material to localize.

If it's compatibility issues (by which I mean if the game has to be programmed to accept expansions from the get-go - I'm not too versed in the aspects of game development), Kingdom Hearts 3 won't start development until the completion of Final Fantasy Versus 13 - which isn't done yet. Or at least I believe that's the case (someone correct me if I am mistaken). It could explain why Birth by Sleep Final Mix may not see an international release.

With that in mind, how many people would buy a Final Mix as DLC in the future, and for what price? Would an appeal to Square-Enix before development begins bring such a concept closer to reality? Need opinions, guys and gals!

(Whew, I think I got all my questions out of my system now. Feels nice.)
Corundum
10:25:18 PM Dec 22nd 2010
Crap. Need to work on my proofreading
Butterfinger
Topic
04:34:11 PM Dec 7th 2010
edited by Butterfinger
Removed:

For your information, the number of pouches, belts and zippers in this series is over 9000. And yes, it's Tetsuya Nomura's doing.

The caption was restored (a month later after the edit removing it) because it was hilarious and no reason was given for the edit. Quoting the edit that removed the caption:

the quote really has no relevance to the story/plot anyway; maybe it would be better for the Tetsuya Nomura page

For further elaboration, this caption, while somewhat funny, has no relevance to the story/plot. No one would understand any relavent information about Kingdom Hearts based on the information in the caption. If you take a look at the work page for the original KH game, the caption talks about info relavent to the game while being somewhat funny about it. However, zippers have NO relavence to plot/themes/characters/setting, only character design. As stated before, some variation for this caption would make more sense for the Tetsuya Nomura page, because he notably uses zippers in many of his character models, and it is something he is well known for.

I am not against a caption, but that particular caption has very little relavence to the series, and as such should not be the first thing someone sees when viewing the page.
HarpieSiren
10:16:02 AM Dec 9th 2010
Not only is it not relevant, it's just a tired old joke, yet another iteration of "lol Nomura likes zippers" that shows up nearly every time we mention Nomura.
LesterCell
11:22:30 AM Feb 26th 2011
So what if it's not relevant to the story/plot? I agree that there are more relevant things someone could see straightaway when looking at the page for the first time, and maybe that joke is repeated a lot .. But untill you can think of anything funnier or more relevant to replace it with, don't remove it. A caption that is slightly funny and conveys information with very little relevance to the series may not be as good as a very funny caption with extremely relevant information, but it's DEFINITELY better than no caption at all. I mean, I had no idea that the zippers were a Tetsuya Nomura 'thing', and found the link to the 'Zipperific' page very interesting. More importantly it made me think about the series in a way that I hadn't before. Now I count the zippers on KH and Final Fantasy characters. Before, the caption might have made the reader laugh and told him something some readers might not have known before. Now it doesn't because THERE ISN'T A CAPTION. Surely that's not an improvement
76.4.4.167
Topic
10:38:33 AM Sep 25th 2010
edited by 76.4.4.167
Just thought I'd ask, on the characters page, should we list tropes exhibited by individual heartless? (like theme nameing for the color-music types or Colossus Climb for groundshaker.) And if we do should we do the same with unversed and either give them their own section or combine their tropes with Vanitas.
theoneyoucallwe
05:30:20 PM Dec 19th 2010
That actually might be an idea, but we'd have to have it sorted in separate pages: KH 1, KH 2, recurring, etc. A lot of work.
mythbuster
Topic
11:34:55 PM Jun 3rd 2010
I put up a Does This Remind You of Anything? note on the Main page because we now have not less than three characters who are some freaky combination of Sora and Kairi. And then, when these characters merge with Sora and Kairi, they don't return everything to the one it originally came from. By the end of Kingdom Hearts II, a part of Sora has permanently become part of Kairi and vice versa. This could be cute, or it could be Nightmare Fuel, but this is on way of sneaking references to sex and parenthood into these games.
illegalcheese
09:01:58 PM Sep 16th 2010
Possibly, but I don't think it was any attempt on the writers' parts, since they've been trying to downplay the relationship between Kairi and Sora. And its an abstract enough concept to distance it from what you see.
mythbuster
10:28:20 AM Nov 24th 2010
Still, adding Xehanort into the list of characters that blend together with other characters utterly defeats the purpose of what I was trying to say.
GearBoxClock
Topic
08:29:36 PM Mar 18th 2010
I must ask, why is this so popular?

I'm not gonna say that its "raping" Disney or anything, but its not much more than a JRPG series with ridiculous character designs.
ViperSean
09:03:06 PM Mar 19th 2010
Crossing-over a beloved franchise of over half a century with the lung-rippingly popular codifier franchise of JRPG's pretty much gave it maximum hype and exposure right out of the gate, which I personally think was the key. After that, the gameplay was genuinely fun enough to endear it to a most of the large number players whose attention it got, and then the Kudzu Plot kept 'em hooked.

Also, you cut skyscrapers in half and all that jazz.
GearBoxClock
10:18:25 PM Mar 19th 2010
I guess that makes sense.

I guess I just have leftover hatred from the FF/anime fanboy crowd that transfers over here.
illegalcheese
12:01:57 PM Jul 16th 2010
KH 1 was a much more equal blend of Disney and Final Fantasy, but Nomura's the head writer, so I guess Nomura's writing what he knows.
ManwiththePlan
08:32:20 AM Nov 2nd 2010
The series' writing has gotten way out of hand, indeed, but there are still several fun, redeemable aspects to the series (the gameplay, especially as of Birth By Sleep, is awesome for example.)
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