Redoing "The List"

As those of you who were around back when we had the old forum will remember, I suggested that people come up with a list of fictites they would like to see on the show. Due to everything that has changed since then, Bobby and I thought it best if we redid the exercise. In the process, I've come up with simpler rules for making the list, since there was some confusion last time. The rules:

• No background or one-scene appearance characters—we can typically just throw those in whenever we want
• You have 15 points
• Each fictite costs 1 point
• Fictites cost an additional 1 point for every fictite from the same series/continuity. (eg the second transformer, Marvel Universe character, or Final Fantasy character would cost 2, and the third of each would cost 3.)
  • If two (or more) characters function as a unit, you may list them together for 1. (eg Banjo and Kazooie)
• Give at least one sentence describing how the character would be used.
• Give at least one sentence justifying why you think this character is a good choice to fill one of our rather limited recurring fictite slots. (OMG this character is so cool doesn't count. Neither does He did [awesome thing] and [awesome thing] in [source fiction]—we're not showing the events from the source fiction on-screen.)

Failure to follow these guidelines will result in your votes not being tallied for the purposes of the list that the Plot Committee will consider.

Late Sunday night (approximately 3 days 8 hours from now for you folks not in PST) I'll compile aforementioned list—you have until then to post your list. If you have any comments on the ficites that someone has selected, save them for the plot thread in 4 days.

edited 26th Mar '10 3:00:55 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I've started my list, so I figured that I would post it as an example. I reserve the right to return and make edits until I reach the full 15 points.

• Dracula makes a great member of the Dark Lodge as a classic villain. He also gives us a chance to poke some fun at the rather varied portrayals of the character by using original flavor Dracula and have none of the characters recognize him because they're used to some of the more common vampire stereotypes (which we also get to poke fun at via all the things that do or do not work against him). Also, Castlevania gives us a chance to have a dungeon, so to speak, with an ever-shifting layout (due to the rift and the numerous versions of Castlevania that have appeared in the Castlevania series) and a true menagerie of horror-themed and mythological creatures. (1)
• Second is Death as an Enigmatic Minion unwillingly bound to Dracula and occasionally giving the team hints on defeating Dracula (to free her from her bond to him). When not doing the cloak and scythe thing, she hangs out as a Perky Goth (see that page image for Death of the Endless, the basis for non-reaper Death). An the end of Season 5, Death is freed from Dracula and comes to claim him in all of her glory (fear the shadow of creation wings, bitches!). Few fictites give us the opportunity to reference such diverse source fiction: with the current description on Proposed Recurring Fictites, we have Grim Fandango, Good Omens, Discworld, Gauntlet, Bill And Teds Bogus Journey, Castlevania, Deadpool, Sandman, and Irregular Webcomic (with perhaps more to come)—the density of references is just too good to pass up. (1)
• Next up is Jareth, the Goblin King◊, leader of the goblin hordes for Our Goblins Are Different. (Jim Henson-style goblins? Yes, please!) Jareth really just wants to give up life as the Goblin King—he moonlights as actor Jareth Quinn to get away from it all, which puts him in the sights on the Phantom... The team needs his ability to navigate bizarre mazes in order to infiltrate Castlevania and defeat Dracula. Whenever Jareth appears on-screen for the first time in a scene, the camera zooms in on his crotch with a scare chord. He also keeps getting people's names wrong. (Reasons for inclusion: he helps clean up the Dracula subplot, The Area, he links the Dracula subplot, the fey subplot, and the potential theater subplot, The Area, him stealing Jinxed away early in the show as part of the fey subplot makes him a good Chekhov's Gunman for later in the story, The Area, it's David friggin Bowie, and The Area.) (1)
• The Phantom Of The Opera is working behind the scenes to recruit the perfect cast for his newest musical. There's just one problem: as a hybrid of several quite different men, he's completely insane. He generally doesn't attract much attention until he starts murdering those who would get in the way of his plan. He's believed to have been killed several times, leading some to believe that there is more than one person wearing the mask of the Phantom. Short version: there are only two, and the fake Phantom is really pissing off the real one. (If you can't tell by now, the current Season 5 plot is my baby, and I also have been selecting characters who make sense appearing the in Masquerade Ball episode planned for that season. So, yeah, the Phantom is part of the Area package.) (1)
• Morgan le Fay to appear an Anti-Villain (strong emphasis on the anti) who opposes The Master and wants to rule England (or at least have influence over the ruler) to keep the British Isles as a safe haven for magical beings. Though having a puppet prime minister under the control of "Lady Morgana" would not be a good thing, she is very much the lesser evil to the point that she's more of an antagonist than a true villain (and really, she's even an ally against the Master since the England situation is a big four-way). She may also play Trickster Mentor to one or more major characters. (Reasons for inclusion: a King Arthur character is a must, and the anti-villain version of Morgan le Fay is the most useful since it mixes the antagonist role with a depth and moral complexity that cannot be found with any of the good knights, Mordred, Merlin, or the Card-Carrying Villain version of Morgan le Fay. Also, she's our sexy witch.) (1)
• The World Tree—see the write-up in the Plot thread since I can't be bothered to rewrite it. (1)
• Revolver Ocelot◊ (or Liquid Ocelot), The Dragon to the Master (or some other villain—note the lack of the Master on my list since I'm not familiar with—I've only included him here under the assumption that he's not going anywhere soon), has already betrayed one or two of the secondary villains by his first appearance. The heroes totally anticipate his Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, while the (Genre Blind) fictite villains keep getting blindsided by it. He ends up getting Bad Boss'd by &&& since they realize that they can't trust him, you know, at all. (Reasons for inclusion: he's more or less the trope namer for Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, and the character reactions to him really emphasize the advantage that real people have when dealing with fictites. Also, he serves the plot as an agent of &&&. I do realize that we don't need him specifically for his plot role, but, yeah, he canonically suffers from the disease of "Chronic Backstabbing Disorder" in The Last Days Of Foxhound and is one of the best manipulators in all of fiction. Hell, given the crazy shit he pulls, we could make him the founder of the Dark Lodge and it would still make sense''  ^*
  ^{ie it wouldn't be an Out-of-Character Moment—no promises of making things clear for the audience}
  . Also, his immunity to mind control could become a major plot point—especially since he's quite capable of faking being mind-controlled.) (1)
• The Cheshire Cat◊ is always up to no good, helping various factions fight against each other for his own amusement, always disappearing before he gets caught. As a general rule, accept the cat's aid (and put up with his philosophical questions), but don't ever make the mistake of trusting him. Reasons for inclusion: due to the popularity of the various Alice In Wonderland adaptations (and the original books), he'll be instantly recognizable. Also, he's potentially antagonistic and has questionable motives, but he's also willing to help the protagonists on occasion)—I'm sure you've figured out, I really like including those sorts of characters. (1)
• David Xanatos has spent the time since C-Day rebuilding his wealth. As one of the members of &&&, he is part of the conspiracy to restore order to the world. After all, it's easier to make a crapton of money when there's a system to exploit. Why should we include him? Because he'll be running a Xanatos Gambit, of course! Do we need any other excuse? (since, you know, we can actually have him run one this time instead of just having the Evil Plan from the past few drafts) (1)
• Akroma, Angel of Wrath aka Angry Lady◊ is a powerful angel who was created to destroy Phage, the being that had killed the creator's wife. With an over-sized sword, white magic set to "smite", and the ability to inspire the devotion of the faithful, she is quite the force to be reckoned with. "No rest. No mercy. No matter what." In the TV Tropes The TV Show universe, she was pulled across the Fourth Wall late-ish in the show, as the holes in the Wall started to allow for more powerful beings to cross. Initially rather confused by this turn of events, she was contacted by a representative of &&&, who agreed to help her find her nemesis, Phage. Of course, Phage had never come into Reality, and Akroma was being used by &&& as a weapon against some of the more malevolent fictites. If Akroma were ever to discover that she had been tricked, well, let's just say that her vengeance would sure be something to behold... As the most popular legend (card representing a specific character/place; at least, as of 2005) in the most popular English-language CCG of all time, she's an inevitable choice for inclusion. Also, if she ends up hanging around long enough, the interactions between her and Hikari's demon could be quite entertaining. After all, they are both Light Is Not Good Knight Templar types who should get along reasonably well, but one is a demon and the other is an angel... Finally, she has a sort of Mook that we haven't used yet: normal people who are in awe of her presence and who follow her on a quest to smite evil. (1)
• Illidan Stormrage◊ circa the beginning of the Blood Elf campaign of The Frozen Throneis an Anti Heroic (heavy emphasis on the anti to the point that he's debatably an Anti-Villain instead) half-elf half-demon demon hunter who fled to Reality in order to escape his evil demonic master. Originally found and enspelled by the Fairy Godmother in California, he ends up being freed by the efforts of Morgan le Fey and helps her fight the Master. Given his supernatural sight, he is able to identify Hikari's demon and vows to destroy it, ultimately putting him at odds with the tropers. In the mean time, though, he's a tenuous ally of the tropers against anything more demonic than he is. Illidan would be our obligatory reference to Blizzard Entertainment, and also has the perk that if we pull him from the stated point in the timeline, he has a legitimate reason for intentionally crossing over from Fiction. (1)
• HK-47 is a sarcastic murder-loving assassin droid◊ who is rather fed up with the inadequacy of "meatbags" and other (automatically inferior) machines. However, he is willing to serve someone with the requisite intelligence and ruthlessness to makimize the effects of his work. Though ostensibly serving Dr. Doom, HK-47 is actually taking orders from &&&. The conspiracy uses him to eliminate single targets who get in their way. HK-47 is defeated once, only to be rebuilt and sent out again. This time, the tropers make sure to destroy his body to ensure that he can't kill again. HK-47 is a Star Wars reference, but not one of the obvious ones, and he'd be a joy to write for, given his sense of humor. Also, the astute viewers will soon realize that him working for the Doombot makes no sense and figure out that there's something weird going on... (1)
• Azula, Princess of the Fire Nation◊ got pulled into our world during the Convergence, appearing in the Nickelodeon studios. After lighting Spongebob Squarepants on fire  ^*
  ^{This is both a reference to the dueling fandoms and, well, a bit of a personal Take That!—my best friend loves Spongebob but initially refused to watch Avatar because it was too much like an anime and kept it up after hating the finale. (No, I don't know why he only watched the finale episode or two.) So, yeah, I just couldn't resist.}
  , she decided that if she were stuck in this world, she'd certainly make her best effort to take it over. She ends up picking up the pieces after Ganondorf's defeat and goes on to carve out a nice little niche for herself in North America, allying with Section IV in the process. She's part of that organization's betrayal of &&& and is either defeated in the S7 finale or goes on to become one of the recurring villains in Season 8. (I think the latter is more interesting—she could capture Ironeye's parents to ensure his "cooperation" in the betrayal and subsequent fight against the combined forces of TV Tropes and &&&.) Also, she ends up being the opposite to both Jinxed and Murky in Section IV group, the former because of their ages and the latter because of their powers. Oh, right, she's also a Magnificent Bitch and Consummate Liar who is Dangerously Genre-Savvy and probably a lot more dangerous than many of her allies. Fitting in the Section IV villain theme, she want to betray/kill everyone else in the organization. Finally, could we really make TV Tropes The TV Show without an ATLA reference? (1)
• Ganondorf: What Bobby said below. Also, he can totally do the Evil Overlord thing and take over after the Witch gets defeated, and probably do a better job than she did—this goes double if we pull from his depictions in SuperSmashBrosBrawl◊ and, by extension, There Will Be Brawl. (1)
• Bangladesh DuPree is an Ax-Crazy Sky Pirate (and former pirate queen) who flies around Europe in a zeppelin, causing all manner of mayhem. There really isn't much she enjoys more than killing people...except perhaps causing them a lot of pain, first. A Psycho for Hire, Bang is quite willing to work for anyone who doesn't object to her methods...or at least doesn't object too much when she liberally interprets her orders. In terms of TV Tropes The TV Show, DuPree's airship popped into Reality over Germany on C-Day. Bang lead her crew to take advantage of the chaos and engage in plunder. Some time later, she is recruited by Moriarty, who often uses her as a diversion. In Season 4, she comes into conflict with Tybalt, since they both do the whole Ax-Crazy sword-wielding sidekick thing, leading to Tybalt leaving in a huff after the World Tree mission (something that the protagonists don't fail to notice). Bang outlives her new boss, surviving into Season 5 by virtue of being too busy terrorizing Doom's subjects to be bothered with the Fourthtress attack. Early in the season, the protagonists track her down (with help from Tybalt) and capture her zeppelin, giving them a way to cross Europe that Dracula would never expect. Reasons for inclusion: we need a webcomic character, a Sky Pirate, and more Badass female villains. Also, She gives us an easy way to give Tybalt more character development and set things up such that Matrix would actually be willing to listen to him in Season 6. (1)

Tally: 15

Edit: List complete

edited 5th Apr '10 12:42:31 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

As a reminder, there are approximately 45 hours remaining before I compile the first draft of the list.

Also, if you participated last time, the old lists were only very recently removed from the Fictite List page, so they are still in the page history. I've been drawing heavily from my old list, as some of you may have noticed. That reminds me—feel free to post partial lists and edit other stuff in later, as I have been doing. There's no reason you have to use all 15 points before you reveal what you decided. (Also, feel free to take stuff off if you change your mind.)

edited 27th Mar '10 3:25:57 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

• Dracula because... what Ironeye said. (1)
• The Master is one of the most iconic villains of British television, and the most iconic individual villain from Doctor Who, which is up there with Star Trek in terms of popular and influential science fiction series. He has at least six different incarnations that we can draw on; and he's also an insane evil genius, and a spectacularly hammy one at that, making him a very entertaining character. The fact that he has been Prime Minister of the UK before makes him an ideal choice for the Dark Lodge takeover of Britain. Also something of a polar opposite to Morgan le Fey as proposed by Ironeye, being a totalitarian, paranoid megalomaniac who uses high-tech weaponry and mind control to force people to obey his will. (1)
• The Wicked Witch of the West is the primary antagonist of one of the most beloved works of American children's literature, and consequently has appeared in numerous different adaptations and other influenced works, giving us plenty of material to draw from. She's certainly a Card-Carrying Villain (since this isn't Wicked), and therefore very suited to being a member of the Dark Lodge. (1)
• Sherlock Holmes is by far the most famous fictional detective, meaning that as with the Wicked Witch of the West, we have no shortage of incarnations and interpretations to draw from. He's also a genius with numerous talents, the most notable being his powers of observation and deduction, making him a very competent ally for the Tropers in aiding them to unravel the plots of the Master and Moriarty. (1)
• Professor Moriarty is the archetypal Archenemy, with almost as many portrayals as Holmes. Very much The Chessmaster, he's the ultimate Big Bad behind numerous criminal gangs responsible for almost all organised crime in England, with ties to gangs overseas. These resources combined with powers of deduction and reasoning on the level of Holmes' would allow him to operate as a force controlling Europe and creating a climate of fear, the perfect backdrop for that arc. (2)
• Ganondorf is by far the most iconic villain from an extremely popular series of video games. A Complete Monster, so he'd fit right in with the Dark Lodge; he even goes by the title of "King of Evil". He'd make a good minion to the Wicked Witch of the West, being a dark magic user and a brute. (1)
• Remilia Scarlet, for three reasons. 1, Touhou is immensely popular on TV Tropes and the Internet as a whole. 2, with Touhou, there's very little canon and a lot of fanon, meaning we've essentially got all the interpretations on the Internet to draw from and have a bit of leeway in how we characterise her. 3, we have a council of vampires sketched out, and I think Remilia would make a good addition. She'd probably be the least evil member of the council, since depending on how she's characterised she's more childish and mean than evil. Her devoted sister, Flandre, is even more dangerous, but she'd be locked in the basement most of the time; maybe she could be let out at some point and serve as a Villain of the Week? (1)
• James... I know, I know, but hear me out. We already have a Twilight style vampire pencilled in for the council; who better than James, the Big Bad of the original novel and a Complete Monster? I picture him as the Buttmonkey of the council, who'd tease him for being sparkly. (1)
• King Dedede, the most famous recurring boss from another popular Nintendo franchise. Dedede is more of a Jerkass than a true villain, so would likely not be a part of the Dark Lodge, although he's shown himself susceptible to possession in the past. Instead, he could proclaim himself to be king and start stealing and smuggling various items, resulting in a conflict of interest with Moriarty's gang and becoming dragged into the conflict as an unreliable, uneasy ally for the Tropers. (1)
• Terrence is by far the most entertaining villain in the Breeniverse, which due to the lonelygirl15 hoax remains one of the most widely publicised and influential webseries 'verses. He's already pencilled in as a recurring antagonist and minion of Moriarty; this is just to formalise that. He would be the Villain of the Week in one episode, and then reappear briefly in the service of Moriarty later on (and probably be killed off at that point). (1)

edited 4th Apr '10 2:13:44 PM by BobbyG

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Can I put fictites I want to see as Mooks or Elite Mooks on this list? Presumably Mooks would appear multiple times.

Sure, why not? The two description rules still apply, though.

edited 27th Mar '10 3:50:18 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

• Dementors (1) as Elite Mooks of the Dark Lodge. They fit right in with the whole emotion-eating thing we've got going on. Addition: Ironeye explained that Dementors would be quite useful for the Dark Lodge in that they eat positive emotions, leaving the negative ones, which would make it easier for the Dark Lodge Heartless to feed, and they'd be presumably easier to get than the quite rare positive-emotion-feeding Heartless.
• Princess Azula (1) what Ironeye said.
• Waspinator (1) Being the Cosmic Plaything, he of course gets ripped right agross the Fourth Wall first chance there is. He could initially appear in Vancouver, since Mainframe Entertainment, the people who animated Beast Wars, were situated there. After seeing the destruction that went on in this world, and experiencing that destruction first hand, he is picked up by the Dark Lodge or &&& or Section IV - any one of them, I'm not too sure who exactly - fixed, and when he sees their front of "bringing order to the world" he eagerly joins up. He of course reprises his role from Beast Wars, an Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain Cosmic Plaything. Perhaps if he finds out that his employers in this world aren't all they're cracked up to be, he could make a Heel–Face Turn - which of course doesn't save him from being slagged every appearance, but he does get to feel good about doing good. The bad guys would probably take advantage of the fact that he gets blown to bits all the time and still survives to use him as a suicide agent of some sort. Bonus: If we have Waspinator on the show, I can easily voice him.
• Illidan Stormrage (1) What Ironeye said.

Pending Explanation:

• Infected Sarah Kerrigan (1)
• Kefka Palazzo (1)

Total: 6/15

edited 29th Mar '10 1:37:03 PM by Matrix

• Dead Pool partly because of the Crazy Awesome factor and because he's highly versatile. If you need some Comic Relief or a Bad Ass he can do either (or both at the same time!). He is also useful as a Wild Card due to being completely insane and pretty much doing things for the lulz. Here is a page explaining why Deadpool is awesome.
• Commander Shepherd is also a fantastic one as a Wild Card due to her Depending On The Player nature. Indeed, for both humour and Nightmare Fuel, she can oscillate wildly between the extremes of Paragon and Renegade behaviour. It should also be noted that one could have Man!Shep turning up on one occasion and Fem!Shep on another. Renegade Femshep. Paragon Shepherd delivers a Crowning Moment of Awesome, followed by a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming.
• Cerebus The Aardvark at once a simple and yet complex character, swinging between Anti-Hero and Wild Card (again) depending on what your agenda is. He lives in a Low Fantasy world which is simultaneously a Crapsack World and Thirty Xanatos Pileup. Pretty much all he cares about is drinking, violence and sex, yet he is forever dragged into all manner of intrigue due to possessing certain unusual properties (along with an unusual appearance). Morally ambiguous at the best of times, he starts from Designated Hero and slides gradually into plain old Jerkass as time goes on. It should be noted that the more power he gets, the more awful and hilarious he gets. For instance when he becomes pope (although all of the Free Cerebus serves as a good reference).

edited 28th Mar '10 2:56:58 AM by Korgmeister

Again with the data mining, dear Aunt?

Updated my list.

Given the small number of responses so far, I'm going to extend this another week. Remember, if you only have three or so ideas, go ahead and post them now—you should feel free to update your list multiple times over the course of the week.

Also, I updated my list to 14 points.

edited 28th Mar '10 4:05:41 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

So, here's what's probably my completed list.

• Dracula - because of what Ironeye said. And also, he's one of the most iconic villains ever to appear in fiction. (1)
• The Master - Like Bobby said, there's a lot we can draw on from the different incarnations, and his complete insanity makes him very entertaining. Plus he wants to take over the world, so he'd fit right in in the Dark Lodge. (1)
• Adrian Veidt (Ozymandis) - He's an iconic Well-Intentioned Extremist that genuinely wanted to make the world a better place through his plan, so he'd fit right in in the moral ambiguity of Org &&&. And he's canonically a highly charismatic genius that would make a great adversary for the tropers and a great asset for Org &&&.
• Ernst Stavro Blofeld - Because the Bond films are world famous, especially for their villains, and Blofeld was one of the most dangerous and iconic villains of them all. Plus, because his two main preoccupations are money and power, he'd make a good ally or member of the Dark Lodge. His criminal empire would also make him a good foil for Moriarty, as the two compete to see who controls the criminal underworld when the Dark Lodge takes over. (1)
• And on that note, Moriarty himself, for reasons that have already been mentioned. (1)
• Scarecrow - Either the Batman Begins or Batman Arkham Asylum version. He'd provide a great contrast to the other, more campy, Batman villains in the "Batman villains rob Fort Knox" episode, and then after that I could see him as a recurring Dark Lodge minion because his fear gas would be a great asset to them by allowing them to drive their enemies insane. Plus, like gorgardard says below, using him to show the tropers' fears would be good for Character Development. (1)
• Judge Dredd - He's joined up with Org &&& as a minor minion because he believes they're the only ones that can restore order to the world and stop the war and crime that sprang up after the Convergence (when he came across). In purely because I think it'd be interesting to see the tropers come up against someone that's generally seen as a (mostly) good guy when they're fighting Org &&&, and it would underline the moral ambiguity of the organisation. (1)

7/15.

edited 31st Mar '10 10:17:43 AM by TheJackal

Updated my list.

Here's a start:

• I also want to see Azula, for the reasons mentioned above, though I'm wondering whether a pre- or post- Villainous Breakdown Azula is better.(1)
• Scarecrow. He's a fear-manipulating villain, and thus would fit in nicely with the Heartless. As I said before, if we are doing a Hilarity Ensues episode with Batman villains invading Ft. Knox for gold, if we included one or two of Bats' rogues gallery from the more dark works like Batman Arkham Asylum or The Dark Knight, while the rest were from the more campy works (Cesar Romero Joker, Tommy Lee Jones Two Face etc..) it would make for a good bit, the two sides arguing over what their plans were exactly once they have the gold, and then Scarecrow could escape and become a Wild Card who's amassed a small gang/army of Heartless who feed off fear, allowing him to do all kinds of experiments on people's fears and nightmares. "Go back? Why would I go back when there are so many research opportunities here?" He's also a good villain for Character Development, as you can explore the Tropers' fears.(1)
• The Operative from Firefly as a minion of &&&. The Operative would be on his standard mission of bringing order and civility by "cleansing" the unworthy. He's a Determinator who would stop at nothing to achieve his goals, and honestly thinks he's in the right. He sees the world in chaos due to The Convergence and thinks that &&& are the best way to rule the world, though he plans to dispatch himself at the end, just like in Serenity. He's basically a scalpel to your standard thug/lieutenant as a blunt instrument - he's brought in when something presents itself as a difficulty that's not as readily solvable as someone you can just throw moooks at.(1)
• Croag of Phyrexia as a Fake Boss/Decoy Antagonist- upon the introduction of &&&, it would appear that they are making an alliance with Phyrexia, who have managed to send an emissary through the 4th wall. It is shown that Yawgmoth intends to betray &&& in order to gain the real world for Phyrexia to transform. Croag goes in to meet with &&&, and is trapped by the use of a Seal of Protection (a bit of a Shout-Out to old school Magic cards) and a dramatic reveal of... (1)
• ... Urza Planeswalker, who has joined &&& and already warned them about the Phyrexians. Urza then tells Croag he has a message for his master, which is of course, the destruction and dismantling of Croag to send back to Phyrexia as a serious warning. Urza knows this will probably not stop Phyrexia from trying again, which is why he wants to turn our world into yet another bulwark against Phyrexia's invasion... at any cost. This establishes a couple things about &&&: Their mission (to protect and rule the world) and how Bad Ass they are. (Capturing and killing a particularly nasty Eldritch Abomination) Urza also makes an excellent Gray Morality character for &&& - his intentions are good - stop Phyrexia and other nasty fictite monsters from spilling into other realities - but what he will do to achieve that is monstrous. In a pinch, you could still do the Croag thing without Urza as well, anyone could have read the Artifacts Cycle books, or played M:TG and known what Phyrexia's plans were.(2)

Appended. Total cost 5.

edited 1st Apr '10 1:55:28 PM by gorgardard

@gorg: You don't have Morgan le Fey on your list, so you don't have to spend an extra point for Arthur.

Edit: Remember, Bobby G and I will be the ones deciding which characters will be cut from the final list, and Karalora has veto power on anything we decide to keep, so we're the people you have to convince. A few tips on making a convincing case to me:

• I'm very unlikely to throw my votes behind heroic characters. Why? Because we already have 11 main protagonists, a full organization of backups, and several allied characters/organizations that can cover most of our bases—fictional protagonists typically only add the Shout-Out factor, as they are redundant when allied with the main team. As such, you'd better make a convincing argument for why the hero character isn't just going to team up with the protagonists and kick ass.
• &&& itself is full of Chessmasters who are not evil with a capital E. The organization itself wants to make the world a safer place (while ruling it, of course). Any character that doesn't meet these qualifications doesn't belong and will not get my vote. Note that this does not prevent other sorts of characters from being pawns of this organization, but you will have to make the case for how the pawn is useful to the organization as a whole.
• As I'm sure you can tell from my own list, I like morally complex situations. If a character is going to appear that is either very evil or very good (both in canon and in how they're interacting with our world), they'd better be damn entertaining.
• Smart villains are more entertaining and useful than stupid ones. (This is part of the reason I favor pre-Villainous Breakdown Azula—after the breakdown, she makes too many pointless idiotic decisions.)
• Coming up with an explanation for what the character has been up to before its appearance is always a plus. Came over recently only counts as an acceptable explanation for characters:

  • with a reason to come over (such as Illidan)
  • who are very powerful and thus couldn't come over earlier (Death, who doesn't come over until a few seasons have gone by)

  • Keep in mind that characters whose motivations only make sense in their own canon often don't make sense on the show. If you would like to include such a character, be sure to explain how they react to their mission getting screwed up. (This is why I haven't included any of the Proxian antagonists from Golden Sun despite wanting to include someone from that game—their goals are based around the setting they are in and don't transfer well to our world.)

edited 30th Mar '10 3:41:56 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Alright, I updated my previous post a little bit and added picture links for some of the characters on my list. Also, I took a look at all 30 characters suggested thus far, and none are primarily associated with an internet work. I intend to fix this; my 15th point will be spent on a webcomic character of some kind (since I'm not familiar with that many other web projects, and the characters from the ones I know don't fit well).

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

A list (of one, for now). Will add more later, as I find them.

• Joker (1) — from Read Or Die (both the OVA and the TV series). "Joker" is his codename, his real name is Joseph Carpenter. He's the head of the British Library Special Operations Division, a task force dealing with all sorts of book-related missions. Only Joker was pulled into reality, but he has since started a new "branch" of the Special Operations Division here in the real world, hiring various Empowered as field agents. Good at manipulating people, and is particularly skilled with using emotional blackmail. Quite possibly in league with the Master, though he's more accurately a wildcard, working along with whoever's plans work out favorably for Great Britain as a whole (nevermind the pawns that may need to be sacrificed in the process).

Points: 1

edited 5th Apr '10 12:01:14 AM by KylerThatch

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

I got one!

The demons from The Phantom Tollbooth! Basically, they behave just like they did in the book, causing all sorts of problems for the tropers, like getting them to do very menial tasks and essentially double talking them to oblivion until the tropers can break the patterns. How does that sound?

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That sounds like a good monster of the week. The thread you are looking for is here. (How do I know it's a Monster of the Week suggestion? "Basically, they behave just like they did in the book" is automatic MOTW status—we're not going to bring in characters for more than one episode if the description for their material is "and then everything happens just like in the source fiction"—that's a waste of our time.)

edited 1st Apr '10 11:14:11 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Some of them might make decent Elite Mooks if we can give them more to do than just reprising their book functions.

I see that one faceless demon (can't remember his name for the life of me) as a good recurring mysterious entity who occasionally pops up offering advice that turns out to not be quite that useful, despite how good his offers sound.

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One thing to remember is that the main characters know what the fictional characters tend to do. Even if they don't recognize him from The Phantom Tollbooth, he's a man with no face dispensing mysterious advice—they're Genre Savvy enough to not trust a word he says.

edited 1st Apr '10 5:17:34 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

The Terrible Trivium is who you mean.

We have a works page for the book, you know.

Oh right, that's his name. I was thinking of him as being more of a spokes person for the bad guys, y'know, as someone who talks to the general masses, not just the tropers themselves. The general population probably won't be too genry savvy about the whole matter. As such, the tropers wouldn't be just going against him, they would be going against anyone held under his sway.

Also, I recall that there has been at least one superhero who had no face as far as I could tell: The Question.

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See, now you're actually, you know, thinking about the characters you propose. You should try doing that more often—we won't object to as many of your ideas.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Alrighty, I think I got the Terrible Trivium's role down now. He's one of the first fictites to appear during the convergence and says that he is working with someone to keep order so the general public won't panic. He tells the masses that they will be just fine as long as they do a series of tasks, tasks that are both trivial and nonsensical, but the general population will do them anyway out of fear of the unknown. And since he does resemble the superhero The Question many will take his words to heart. As a recurring fictite, he makes sure that the public remains distracted as its something he wants them to do, rather than something someone else wants him to do.

♥♥II'GSJQGDvhhMKOmXunSrogZliLHGKVMhGVmNhBzGUPiXLYki'GRQhBITqQrrOIJKNWiXKO♥♥