Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's worth including
The wifi here sucks
Here's my rewrite for Jules
Old
- Jules Archibald is the head of the Jules Archibald Foundation. An acquaintance of the Mann Brothers, Jules sought to profit off the Gravel War by creating an endless army of mercenaries through his Respawn Machine. Experimenting on death row inmates that left hundreds of thousands dead, Jules sold the machines to both Mann Brothers, ensuring years of bloodshed and malfunctioning respawn machines condemning mercenaries to suffer in respawn limbo. During the Gravel War, Jules had three men executed for treason and personally killed Jane Doe just to provide Jacques with a cloned assistant. Hiding out in the Conagher Slaughterhouse when his crimes are uncovered, Jules has Jeremy's mother murdered and him abducted, leading to his torture and murder, just to stop the boy from suing him.
New
- Jules Archibald is the head of the Jules Archibald Foundation. An acquaintance of the Mann Brothers, Jules sought to profit off the Gravel War by creating an endless army of mercenaries through his Respawn Machine. Experimenting on death row inmates that left hundreds of thousands dead, Jules sold the machines to both Mann Brothers, ensuring years of bloodshed and malfunctioning respawn machines condemning mercenaries to suffer in respawn limbo. During the Gravel War, Jules had three men executed for treason and personally killed Jane Doe just to provide Jacques with a cloned assistant.
The Draftsman of Doom
Slight tweak to one of my writeups:
Original:
- First Draft: Hans Gruber is an arrogant, vicious terrorist who kills a security guard to take over the Klaxon Oil Building, intending to destroy its vault. Taking over 30 people hostage and intending to murder them with his explosives, Hans kills one for so much as showing defiance and later has the responding SWAT team massacred. When Detective John McClane steals his detonators, Hans delights in murdering a friend of his amongst the hostages. Discovering John's wife amongst the hostages, even when John offers to trade the detonators for her safety Hans still attempts to kill both out of anger for their interference.
Addition:
- First Draft: Hans Gruber is an arrogant, vicious terrorist who kills a security guard to take over the Klaxon Oil Building, intending to destroy its vault. Taking over 30 people hostage and intending to murder them with his explosives, Hans kills one for so much as showing defiance and later has the responding SWAT team massacred. When Detective John McClane steals his detonators, Hans delights in murdering a friend of his amongst the hostages. Discovering John's wife amongst the hostages and mocking her for being unaware of Klaxxon's corruption, even when John offers to trade the detonators for her safety Hans still attempts to kill both out of spite for their interference.
This is a major point of difference between the novel, where Leland's daughter was actually knowingly complicit, and the script, where she isn't and Hans still targets her nonetheless, and I would like to highlight that characterization change.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 24th 2023 at 6:09:29 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Goku Black
Anyway here's that slight expansion that was recommended for Imreann
- Original: Imreann, the High Priest of Crystalline Orthodox and leader of the Iron Kingdom, stands as one of the wickedest supporting villains in the entire franchise. Imreann is the facilitator of the Iron Kingdom's Rape, Pillage, and Burn of the surrounding kingdoms, having his men move in and enslave the women and girls as Sex Slaves. Imreann also horribly oppresses and kills the magic users known as the Bearers as part of his fanatical crusade against those he deems impure to the Mothercrystals. Imreann leads the sack of the capital of Rosaria, with the men massacred and the women and girls enslaved. Finding the 13-year-old Jill Warrick, Imreann uses the lives of innocent child magic users—the Bearers—as a way to blackmail her into being his attack dog using her powers as Shiva. Imreann uses her to lay waste to other kingdoms but has been secretly murdering the children as Human Sacrifices anyway due to his fanatical hatred of the Bearers. When confronted by Jill, Imreann is unapologetic, degrading her as useless.
- reboot: Imreann, the High Priest of Crystalline Orthodox and leader of the Iron Kingdom, stands as one of the wickedest supporting villains in the entire franchise. Imreann is the facilitator of the Iron Kingdom's Rape, Pillage, and Burn of the surrounding kingdoms, having his men move in and enslave the women and girls as Sex Slaves. Imreann also horribly oppresses and kills the magic users known as the Bearers as part of his fanatical crusade against those he deems impure to the Mothercrystals. Imreann leads the sack of the capital of Rosaria, with the men massacred and the women and girls enslaved. Finding the 13-year-old Jill Warrick, Imreann uses the lives of innocent child magic users—the Bearers—as a way to blackmail her into being his attack dog using her powers as Shiva. Imreann uses her to lay waste to other kingdoms but has been secretly murdering the children as Human Sacrifices anyway due to his fanatical hatred of the Bearers. In addition, the original Japanese localisation reveals that Imreann has been sexually preying on the young female slaves that he sacrifices himself. When confronted by Jill, Imreann is unapologetic, degrading her as useless.
Found this unapproved entry on Iron Gold, complete with the incorrect indentation
- Complete Monster:
- Atlas au Raa mutilates Republic soldiers without killing them in order to drive them closer to the Despair Event Horizon, manipulates the Obsidians via proxies into leaving and then turning against the Republic, then uses the Obsidians to Rape, Pillage, and Burn the civilizations of The Rim as punishment for rebelling against the Core, so that first Atalantia and later Lysander can swoop in and become a savior via Engineered Heroics. And while the latter is happening, he deliberately unearths a centuries old Synthetic Plague designed to completely exterminate any Color without harming the rest with full intent to use it as a nuclear deterrent against rebellion.
I haven't finished reading the series, but it's a sequel to Red Rising and I don't think this series can have a CM, it's one of those setting that both has a gigantic heinous standard, but also humanizes pretty much any villain who meets the standard. In the original series, like Adrius "The Jackal" led an ethnic cleansing with over a million deaths and threatened to nuke all 3 billion souls on Luna to seize power but he also had a Freudian Excuse of his shitbag, abusive father (who also has redeeming qualities) and he also loved his mom.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Goku Black
With a syntheteic plague like he wants to make be bad enough or does jackal overshadow him?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I haven't finished the sequels yet, and also apparently it's a sequel quadrilogy and not a sequel trilogy so we need to wait for Red God to come out, but Adrius did try to kill 3 billion people, along with many other crimes, and there are plenty of other nasty customers in the series, like the Big Bad of the original trilogy, Octavia, who had a moon glassed and killed 50 million people, or hell, how Darrow, the hero is directly responsible for over 10 million deaths when he blew some a major spaceport that rained debris onto a major city.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
The Imreann rewrite looks great, mir.
Yeah, Red Rising is in a position where the Jackal is blowing the heinous standard out the window but clearly has too dark a backstory and loves his mother. Not to mention that deeds like rape, (They have an entire caste of sex slaves) mass murder, torture, and slavery are essentially common for Golds. Not only does Darrow himself (Who will be seeing himself proposed for MB alongside many others when the sequels are wrapped) cause mass casualties and sell out some of his own people for an advantage, his mentor Fitchner (himself an MB) literally attempts infanticide at one point in the prequel comics.
In addition, the series places a lot of emphasis on humanizing its villains— the Jackal's own successor is defined by her Undying Loyalty to him and a great many of the story's villains are centered around the way that their corrupt society has shaped and ruined everyone, including the people at the top of it. There's a very definitive emphasis on how evil doesn't come from nowhere.
A nice swimmer
Cut Jacques.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So for Jacques, the cut reason is not being heinous enough?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The wifi here sucks
Yes, specifically that he doesn't do enough to stand out compared to Jules.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
For the sake of consistency is there a reason why Death Note (2017) has Ryuk's mention of the Shinigami potholed to their character page but Fullmetal Alchemist (2017) has Father as The Man Behind the Man? If anything the latter's far closer to his original portrayal vs. what live action Death Note did with the Death Gods.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I've potholed Father to his character page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Flower Picking was a ban evader. All their examples need to go now.
I don't know which candidates they got up since they haven't updated the CM by troper page but I know they got some up
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
The Moron
I know they did Sound of Freedom at least
Goku Black
Theirs also that that Griffith from the anime and game.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Classy, Refined, Unstable
And they did the Bond game guys I believe.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Moron
You’re correct there
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Their posting history is only 4 pages long, so if anyone has the patience it may be wise to run through in case any characters have been forgotten.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Right... there's a fair few other characters it seems as well. Their first post was a success I think?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Not the Eye
They also did Little Nightmares fanfic quartet.
Bond game’s Graves is papyru’s, but yeah other three from Legends are flower’s.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Aug 25th 2023 at 3:24:31 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Right I'm busy atm but I can have a comb through to filter out what they've done later? It would be later in the day since I've got work until 5pm.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Some time ago, I noticed that Walter Londra from Horizon Forbidden West was approved as a Complete Monster and here is the writeup.
This is a good writeup, but there are 2 extra details that make Londra quite a bit worse. He mind raped Nova for a whole millenia, which is explicitly said to be a painful experience and he did it 57 times in just the span of a week, which eventually drives the AI to suicide after asking Aloy to deactivate it to end it's torment. So how about this instead?