Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
The sub-bullet works
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
The wifi here sucks
Been meaning to rewrite this one for a bit since I don't care for the writing style, it doesn't fully explain how bad he really is, and there's a small factual error.
Old
- Arc of a Scythe: Curate Mendoza is the ambitious, manipulative curate of a Tone Cult. Initially a benevolent man who protected Greyson Tolliver from Scythes, Mendoza starts to show his true colors after the Thunderhead marked everybody but Greyson as Unsavory. Using Greyson as a prophet for the Cult, Mendoza attempts to use him as a figurehead so that he has all the power. Failing to control Greyson, Mendoza sought to gain Scythe Goddard's favor. Mendoza convinced a violent Tone Cult to attack Goddard's rival Tenkamenin. The attack leaves Tenkamenin, two other Scythes and countless innocents dead. Mendoza then travels with Greyson to the Cultists' home, and quietly watches as Greyson has the Cult's curate killed for the attack. After Goddard orders the genocide of the Cultists, Mendoza tries to start a war between the Scythedom and the Cults, which Greyson banishes him for. Mendoza then goes to Goddard, offering to kill more of his rivals in exchange for Goddard sparing some cultists, with Mendoza as their new leader.
New
- Arc of a Scythe: Curate Mendoza is an ambitious, manipulative Tone Cult curate who wishes to use Greyson Tolliver position as “The Toll” to control all Tone Cults worldwide. Tiring of his failure to control Greyson, Mendoza convinces a violent cult to kill Scythe Tenkamenin, with the resulting attack leaving countless innocents and cultists dead. Mendoza is uncaring when Greyson has the cult’s curate killed for the attack and tries to manipulate him further. When Scythe Goddard order the genocide of the Tone Cults, Mendoza tries to start a war with the Scythedom, which Greyson banishes him for. Mendoza then goes to Goddard and convinces him to spare some cultist and kill Greyson so Mendoza can take over the cults and enact more brutal attacks on Goddard’s rivals and help the vicious Scythe expand his bloody reign.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That can go next week.
Is Shere a consensus cut?
A few last ones:
- Gravity Falls fan webcomic Deal: Bill Cipher is sadistic as ever in avenging his canon defeat. He mentally tortures Pacifica into involuntarily killing her newborn just to sow distrust and despair in the Pines family. Years later, Bill assaults Dipper for interfering in his plans. Her father under duress, Gwen makes a deal with Bill, wherein he gleefully explains her Dark and Troubled Past before taking her body as a vessel for the apocalypse.
- The Fountain: Grand Inquisitor Silecio, usurper of the Spanish Throne, has captured Queen Isabelle and plots to do away with her to expand the reach of The Spanish Inquisition. With countless innocents horrifically tortured to death, Silecio intends to kill even more and ensure that the whole country is subject to the Inquisition's horrific notions of purity.
- "(The) Specialty of the House", by Stanley Ellin: the mysterious Sbirro is the owner and proprietor of a little restaurant in New York with a small clientele and very restrictive rules. Beloved for the finest dish, Lamb Amirstan, the truth is a terrifying thing. Sbirro in fact runs his restaurant where patrons are eventually "replaced" by being cooked into Lamb Amirstan, the fate that eventually befalls protagonist Laffler when Sbirro finally invites him into his famed kitchen.
- Alfred Hitchcock Presents' "Specialty of the House": Ms. Sbirro is the owner of the luxurious Sbirro's restaurant. Famed for her "specialty of the house", the incredible lamb, Sbirro is in truth cooking patrons into the meal. When Harry Laffler finds himself invited to the kitchen, Sbirro locks him in with her cleaver-armed chef and gleefully adds Laffler's picture to many other "absent friends" before adding she believes she can promise the specialty will be available the following week.
- Cosmic Embers Alternate Continuity: Snee is a Septed obsessed with recreating the Humanoids. In order to achieve this goal, Snee created a terrorist group known as the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil so they could terraform other planets. Not content with other races, Snee annihilated an entire species of sapient aliens on the planet dubbed "New Earth" and later surrounded the planet with a magnetic field to destroy all forms of technology. After brainwashing and genetically manipulating thousands of humans, Snee and the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil later killed 26 soldiers within the GRPC before being subdued and arrested.
- Guerilla:
- Admiral Lucius Kobel is a high-ranking member of the Earth Defense Force and the architect of their greatest weapon, the EMS Hydra, which he previously used to crush an uprising of East Asian rebels on Earth. Kobel is a shrewd politician who has been arranging for the situation on Mars to be brought into his control when General Roth inevitably fails to rein it in; when Roth is eventually eliminated, Kobel coldly rules all civilians "expendable" and swoops in to exterminate all life on Mars, Red Faction or not.
- Colonel Joseph Broga is among the most vile of all the EDF. Taking the reins on training soldiers, Broga has instituted a policy of brutal torture on those they encounter. Many are subjected to "enhanced interrogation" at the hands of Broga's soldiers and trainees with many dying from the treatment they receive. One heroine, Carmen Avila, has been given permanent scars all over her body from Broga's own personal attention.
- Captain Halvar Gunnarsen, the "Butcher of Chryse", is the EDF's "pit bull". Gunnarsen has already gained infamy by putting down a miner revolt with violence in Chryse, leading to 300 deaths, and is currently tasked with enforcing the EDF's rule over Dust with slavery and indiscriminate violence. Gunnarsen tries an exceptionally vile means of putting down rebellion: broadcasting a message through the town that dozens of disaffected miners can peacefully rally, only to order his EDF goons to open fire and kill them all.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I think I am a weak keep for Shere, it feels like its just above baseline.
The First man
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
x2 almost bar 1.
Best Smile
I noticed on the Former Complete Monster page it says that the incarnation of Venom from Marvel's Spider-Man doesn't count due to potentially being Made of Evil and having a Freudian Excuse that his creator Knull abandoned it... but I would like to contest this.
For context, the relevent information comes from the The Secret History of VENOM short video posted on YouTube as a promotion for the third season:
1) Assuming the "possibly being Made of Evil" point refers to the symbiotes having been created by Knull from his own shadow to serve as Living Weapons, I honestly don't see at all how the Marvel's Spider-Man symbiotes are any different from Earth-616's symbiotes in this regard.
2) Venom was neither directly created by Knull or abandoned by him.
What happened was that in this continuity, Knull created four symbiotes — later dubbed All-Black, Scream, Scorn, and Mania — to serve as weapons in his war against the Celestials, and then abandoned them when he decided he no longer needed them. The symbiotes tried to forcibly stay bonded to Knull, who tore them off and left them for dead.
Untold millennia later later, an alien explorer discovered the symbiotes, who wanted to be more than mere tools and weapons. The explorer willingly bonded to them, taking them back to her homeworld. All-Black stayed bonded to the explorer, while Scream, Scorn, and Mania bonded to hosts of their own; and the Four Sisters reproduced to spawn symbiotes that bonded to the planet's populace, seeking to live in peaceful harmony with them.
For a while the symbiotes not only lived but thrived in peaceful symbiosis with their hosts, but one hermit rejected the symbiotes, saying they were corruptive monsters. When All-Black tried to forcibly bond a symbiote to him, the hermit killed her. Scream, Scorn, and Mania went mad with grief and rage, tearing down the peaceful society they and All-Black had established and creating a warmongering empire where the symbiotes dominated and enslaved their hosts in its place. The remaining Sisters then created Venom and the World-Killer from All-Black's remains, with Venom boasting that it's following in Knull's footsteps to bring darkness and destruction to the cosmos.
So... taking into account the revised rules, wouldn't the fact that the symbiotes were able to live in peace with their hosts for a time give them the same sort of agency afforded to the Earth-616 symbiotes?
Lies and Violence!
I believe there was also the concern that Venom was genuinely enraged by the murder of All-Black, which appears to be valid from watching that clip.
And by Knull's betrayal of the original Four Sisters. But the point still stands that the symbiotes have agency and that Venom itself wasn't betrayed and rejected by Knull.
Lies and Violence!
I believe the Made of Evil thing is regarding the sisters specifically "designing" him to conquer other worlds.
Regardless, if you want to edit the sandbox to replace the abandonment thing with his grief for the All-Black, you can go ahead and just do that; I don't think you need any approval to correct small inaccuracies.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Got two possible rewrites if folks are alright with these? They're of the Ravers and John Wulgaru. I'm basing it off the writeups so feedback would be appreciated folks!
- Ravers
- Original
- Foul's Co-Dragons, the three Ravers, are just as bad. They were originally three human brothers whose evil was so great it survived past the destruction of their physical bodies as incorporeal demons with a thing for possessing people. In addition to being willing accomplices in all of Foul's crimes note , and sharing his gleeful, psychotic sadism, each Raver has racked up a number of atrocities of his own. Moksha Jehannum Fleshharrower and Samadhi Sheol Satansfist both did stints as Foul's head general, massacring countless innocents—and their own troops. Individually, Samadhi, as Gibbon na'Mhoram, was the head of a Path of Inspiration that sacrificed countless lives while lying to the people of the Land that it would help reverse the After the End conditions of the Sunbane, when in fact it was just making it worse; Moksha stalked Covenant over much of the Second Chronicles infecting him with venom in order to force him to use his ring at full power whether he wanted to or not, which would have destroyed the world, which was the plan. Turiya Herem Kinslaughterer doesn't show up as often as his brothers, but commits one of the single most appalling atrocities in the Chronicles: single-handedly committing genocide of the Giants of Seareach while they refused to fight back.
- Rewrite
- The three Ravers, Samahdi, Moksha and Turiya are Foul's Co-Dragons who were formerly three human brothers whose sheer evil ascended them of their mortal bodies. Serving their master, the Ravers would massacre countless innocents, including their own troops, while also having a tendency of possessing people. Individually, each Raver has their own depraved crimes under their belt. Samahdi had countless people sacrificed under the pretence they would better world. Moksha infected Covenant with venom to force him to use his power, intending for the ring's might to destroy the world. Turiya had committed the atrocity of wiping out the Giants of Seareach, with them refusing to fight back. Sharing their master's abhorrent sadism, the Ravers committed horrific atrocities to free Lord Foul and ascend to godhood.
- Original
- Johnny Wulgaru
- Original
- Johnny Wulgaru, alias Johnny Dark, alias John More Dread, alias (John) Dread, is a rapist, Serial Killer, Psycho for Hire Misanthrope Supreme who was raised by his drug-addled prostitute mother for the precise purpose of being a weapon against the society she wanted revenge on. The Big Bad, Corrupt Corporate Executive Felix Jongleur, views him as an attack dog: vicious, but useful when directed appropriately. However, he severely underestimates Dread's cunning and ambition, and when he sees the opportunity, Dread uses his Technopath psychic power to wrest control of the Otherland operating system away from his boss. He then launches an orgy of virtual destruction, indulging his sadistic tendencies by, among other things, torturing, raping, and killing the people of Dodge City. When the thrill of godlike power subsides, he then plans to use the resources of Jongleur's empire to wreak havoc in the real world. Meanwhile, the police team investigating Dread's trail of real world murders interviews a psychologist who describes him as one of the purest examples of a sociopathic personality that he'd ever seen — no empathy, no remorse, only a fierce intelligence and the skill to manipulate others.
- Rewrite
- Johnny Wulgaru is a Psycho for Hire who's fierce intelligence allows him to commit depraved atrocities such as torture, murder and rape. Used as Felix Jongleur's attack dog, Johnny decides to eclipse his boss' ambitions and use his psychic powers to seize control of the Otherland operating system from Felix. To indulge in his sadistic pleasures, Johnny uses his newfound godlike power to rape, torture and massacre the people of Dodge City. Wanting to branch out his carnal sadism further, Johnny then plans to use the resources of Felix's empire to break into the real world and continue his cycle of torture there. Described by a psychologist as "one of the purest examples of a sociopathic personality that he'd ever seen", Johnny Wulgaru would treat innocent lives as mere hedonistic whims.
- Original
An Eldritch Troper
Yes to both of Wet's rewrites.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Can I get more thoughts on my Palpatine Expansion?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Works.
I assume the "Him" in the first sentence and Dark Apprentice both refer to Starkiller?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes. Is that good or would you like me to change it?
EDIT: btw, how many OK’s do I need to be able to add it to the drafts?
Edited by FlowerPicking on May 29th 2023 at 5:16:50 AM
Monster.Video Games Q To Z has hit the "too long" warning and needs to be split.
(also posted here)
Edited by Twiddler on May 29th 2023 at 5:42:03 AM
An Eldritch Troper
Yes to Flower's expansion (not really liking the idea of the sub-bullet, but I can't see any other way to write that part in).
I don't think there's a set number of ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
s needed for a rewrite/expansion to be approved, but if there are no objections and you have a few s, then you're good to go.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
...Crap. I'll deal with that.
Can't really catch up on everything I missed from being sick so just gonna vote to cut Shere Khan.
I just had a look at the Kakegurui subjective page and it had a Complete Monster entry with no character named for it. I commented it out, but was there ever an approved character for that series?
Goku Black
Oh hey it's been two weeks. So it's revealed in the Christmas episode of SVU that Johnny drake (Johnny d) actually has another kid.. (from one of his rape victims who she put up for adoption. Do we wanna add anything to his current)
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@Draxterrus: In that case, would anyone mind if I add the Palpatine expansion to the drafts?
Edited by FlowerPicking on May 30th 2023 at 8:03:29 AM
Bye
I don't think so. It was added last month by Anonymous Troper 961, but I don't remember seeing it on the proposal thread, and it isn't in any of the subpages.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Moving this to next page.
Edited by WetFlannels on May 30th 2023 at 1:48:58 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
When it comes to rewrites and expansion, we normaly just present them and wait for few tropers to comment before we put them into drafts. So in a way we do vote![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
.
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 28th 2023 at 2:13:38 AM