Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup

Okay, but we don't know if there are more people who thought it was overshadowed than you. YMMV dosen't cover individual opinions.

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I'm fully aware of that, bruh.

My only point was that since I've personally never heard of it, it seemed to make sense that it wasn't a big controversy. It's also entirely possible I just live under a rock and don't pay attention to the news, which it seems like the discussion is heading toward. I wasn't saying that just because I don't think it's a controversy it wasn't, just that the only way any of us can actually judge is whether or not we've personally heard of it and if we associate the game with the controversy.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

~DDRMASTERM - No, it was my mistake for deleting it; I had gotten it confused with the other Mario Party entry that was brought up around the same time and thought, "Wait, didn't we decide this wasn't an example? Why hasn't it been deleted?" As we haven't reached consensus to cut it, I'm fine with it staying up until/unless we do so.

That said, I'm still not sure it's a good example; while many people may remember the thing with the stick-rotation and the blisters and the silly little gloves that Nintendo sent out as a make-good, I'm not convinced it actually overshadows the work.

Edited by HighCrate on May 1st 2020 at 4:07:20 AM

At the very least, I think it prompted a severe drop in stick spinning games in future installments. Not sure if that counts as overshadowing, but it at least clearly had an impact on later games in the series.

Whether or not it’s overshadowed is a bit subjective. However, it’s pretty difficult to watch a youtube video about Mario Party 1 that doesn’t mention those infamous mini games and the lawsuit they caused, as well as has been mentioned that no sequels have such games to anywhere near the same extent. Passions have died down about it since then, but it’s still rare for a video game to result in such pain from normal play. As Mario Party 1 otherwise only notable for being the first in the series, it seems like a valid example to me.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on May 1st 2020 at 5:09:47 AM

I thought the consensus was keep the control stick spinning minigames and delete the offensive slur incident.

That seems to be the case, unless some additional people object.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on May 1st 2020 at 7:06:45 AM

I found this one for Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze:

• Most discussion about the Nintendo Switch version of the game is focused on its $60 price when compared to the Wii U version's initial $50 price and later $20 price as a Nintendo Selects and the removal of the game from the North American Wii U eShop, whether intentional or not.

Is there anybody who can corroborate this? I can see how the optics of this situation were problematic, but I personally don’t recall hearing about this.

The "New Funky Mode" meme itself overshadowed the price controversy. Cut it.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

These ones for Madden NFL seem baffling:

• Defied. Ray Rice's removal from the Madden NFL 15 roster was done in order to prevent his assault on his wife from sullying the game's reputation.
• Again Defied in 20, where Tyreek Hill was not given a Superstar ability despite his ratings being deserving of one due to his involvement in an ugly domestic violence investigation. Later in the season, Myles Garrett had his Superstar ability removed after getting into a violent on-field fight.

The fact that the examples themselves say defied seems self defeating, and I personally associate the series more with issues about not changing much each game. That said, I’m no sports fan, so maybe there is something justified with these examples.

That was the consensus when last discussed. I disagree with that consensus, but will ultimately abide by it if I'm in the minority on this one.

Playing with a Trope for YMMV means the example isn't really an example, so delete these. Altering the work's content to avoid references to recent events is Too Soon, so these examples could be moved to that.

I've been doing some searching in the YMMV sections and have found several examples I question, some more than others:

Chuck E. Cheese

• The restaurant has recently become a victim of this. On February 2019, Shane Dawson uploaded a video as part of his conspiracy theory series on YouTube, in which he discuses and tests the theory on if Chuck E. Cheese reuses old pizzas. Despite him clarifying that it was only a mere theory and never actually saying that said theory was true, a majority of the general public began to treat such theory as 100% fact, much to the dismay of the company's employees and Periphery Demographic. To as if this will forever tarnish Chuck E. Cheese's reputation, only time will tell. (Fridge Logic suggests CEC could get revenge by suing Shane, but they never have).
• The chain has also become infamous for the brawls that break out among parents.

Examples Are Not Recent aside, the first one seems legit, Shane Dawson is a well known Youtuber and I can expect that a man with his profile spreading such a claim without merit would cause serious problems for a food chain. The second one is perhaps a bit more questionable. It's certainly going to amplify incidents when their children may witness the fight, but is it alone enough to make it count?

The Dark Knight Rises

• The film's release got stained by a mass shooting at its Aurora, CO premiere.

I remember that shooting, so I don't question that it's a notable controversy. Did it overshadow the movie? I doubt it.

Scott Pilgrim vs. The World: The Game

• While "controversy" is a bit strong, the game is mostly known for its unavailability as opposed to its gameplay, often being seen as the poster child for the dangers of digital-only games when the issue comes up.

An example questioning itself is obviously a red flag. And while it sucks that it's no longer available for purchase, that probably doesn't make it an example of an overshadowing controversy.

Steamboat Willie

• Somewhat. The short still holds a lot of notoriety for being so ground-breaking, but the mainstream also tends to know it nowadays for why copyright expiration is so obscenely long now, due to Disney's excessive paranoia on losing the rights to the Mickey Mouse characters should this short go into the public domain (which, as explained on the main page, is highly unlikely even if it were to happen). Due to their constant insistence on keeping copyright law lasting, many remain convinced that no work made after this will ever fall into the public domain, and is also why some copyright extension acts get the detractor nickname "The Mickey Mouse Extension Act".

Another self-doubting example, but while the short is a landmark animation, it’s nowadays mainly just known as one the original Mickey Mouse animations, Disney's decades long efforts to keep it out of Public Domain to the detriment of countless other works may have merit for this trope.

1-2-Switch

• The two most talked about topics are the idea that it should be a pack in, and the rather dirty looking cow milking game, the latter of which became an even bigger example of this trope when PETA accused it of sugarcoating cow-milking.

I can see the issue of if it should have been a pack-in title, but that alone doesn't make it an example. And while the cow milking thing is an odd choice of minigame, Nintendo has done some weird stuff like the WarioWare series. And PETA makes a stink about most anything animal in related, what makes this so special?
\\ That's all I have for now, might bring up others if I find enough others in a future search through.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on May 2nd 2020 at 7:58:27 AM

Chuck E. Cheeses isn't only known for allegedly reusing their pizzas or brawls breaking out between parents, so remove. While the Aurora, CO theater shooting was a big talking point surrounding the film, it didn't end up completely overshadowing The Dark Knight Rises. Maybe keep the Scott Pilgrim example, since I always see people bring up how it isn't available to buy anymore whenever the game is brought up. Delete Steamboat Willie, since it's still considered a classic despite the controversy surrounding copyright extension. Delete 1-2-Switch because how it should've been a pack-in isn't a controversy and the cow milking game controversy quickly died down.

Deleted the ones as you suggested. And I changed the Scott Pilgrim example as follows:

• After being cut from digital storefronts, the game is mostly known for its unavailability as opposed to its gameplay, often being seen as the poster child for the dangers of digital-only games when the issue comes up.

If there are any objections to cutting the examples or keeping this one, I'm all ears.

I'd say that's valid. Literally every time I see anyone mention that game, this gets brought up. Every time.

The Emoji Movie's entry is half "list of transgressions" and half "Movie Bad", which isn't a valid "controversy". The TJ Miller thing barely seems relevant, and if it is, it's thrown in as an afterthought. Is it worth saving?

• Overshadowed by Controversy: The film is probably more well-known for how using emojis as its main focus soon proved to be an Audience-Alienating Premise due to how Totally Radical it sounded, being a ripoff of Wreck-It Ralph, The LEGO Movie and Inside Out, being made by Sony Pictures, a company that has a track record of producing some of the Internet's most hated movies, having a poorly-written plot, poorly-written characters, somehow managing to pull an inverse Eight Point Eight,^note After the first reviews came in and all were decidedly negative, it was widely believed that it would become one of the few films to have a 0% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, until a decidedly mixed review from Common Sense Media (that was just enough to count as a "Fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes) and a outright positive review from a Puerto Rican newspaper's website along with a few others brought it up to a still-abysmal 8%. Due to many critics saying that the movie was so awful that it would cause the end of all cinema as a result of its sheer awfulness and supposedly being a replacement for two cancelled films about Popeye and Medusa respectively than the fact that it's even a film at all. If the controversy over its actual quality wasn't bad enough, a few months later the film would be dragged into the Harvey Weinstein sex scandal when T.J. Miller was accused by an ex-girlfriend of choking and punching her mid-coitus without her permission.

The entire YMMV page for the movie has bashy entries like this one.

The Emoji Movie example is one I vote to cut; the Steamboat Willie thing doesn't overshadow the work as such. That said, it's a really weird case as it is, and it's bloating the description of the work.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!

As terrible as the Emoji Movie is, the bad idea of it and the low quality of the movie are the main controversies and what everybody associates it with. Saying it “overshadowed” the movie when it lived down to the low expectations is questionable. And the sex scandal is not that well known either, or at least I’ve never heard about it previously. The fact it was made over Popeye is the closest thing to this trope out of them, but still less known than most of the other stuff.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on May 3rd 2020 at 7:15:44 AM

Cut, since that example is half a list of transgressions and half this movie is bad. There weren't high expectations for The Emoji Movie to begin with, so it being bad like many expected isn't a controversy. And the part about Popeye being canceled because of the movie has been debunked since Popeye was canceled before The Emoji Movie was even in production.

I just cut this example from the video game page, shouldn't need to explain why

• Fear Effect 2: Double Helix was known for having the first lesbian couple in video game history.

I'm mainly posting it here in case someone actually know about any controversy that overshadowed the game.

My troper wall

Would the Sega Saturn qualify as overshadowed? I don't think there's been quite a botched launch that impacted the console's legacy before the Xbox One.

• In retrospective videos, the first thing that usually comes up when talking about the Sega Saturn is it's infamously rushed launch in North America, resulting in a lot of angry developers and retailers who swore off Sega for good, so little launch games, and an expensive $399 price tag which Sony responded to by lowering the price of their Play Station. This is one of the many factors for the Saturn's failure and lack of games outside of Japan, and began the fall of Sega as a console maker.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 4th 2020 at 7:56:43 AM

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"Sega did a bad so the console sold bad. Here's the list of bads Sega did." What's the controversy?

It’s one of the most infamous misfires in the history of E3, and it arguably was what killed Sega as a console manufacturer. It was supposed to launch in September 1995, but they made a last minute decision to launch during the E3 conference of that year. This pissed off a lot of retailers (at least one outright refused to ever sell it) and screwed over developers, such as it leading to an infamously rushed port of Virtua Fighter, which was meant to be it’s Killer App. It really is nearly impossible to watch a video about the Saturn or of Sega’s downfall that doesn’t mention it.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on May 4th 2020 at 5:18:36 AM

That wasn’t the point I was making. What I was trying to say was that more people know about the botched launch than anything else about the system. Unlike say, the systems before and after this. I was also just listing the consequences of that decision, not “more bads” Sega did.

Thank you.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 4th 2020 at 9:27:18 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!