During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Well I can see why that didn't get made lol... anyways, much more sympathetic take on Maxwell than the one-shot version I got up as a CM: yes there Chase. I've gotta start finding these script.
Yes to Maxwell.
Wow this screenplay seems... terrible. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Maxwell Lord.
to Maxwell
Goku Black
Maxwell.
The Fuck did I just read.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Proof that the work you have to play to be Magnificent doesn't have to make sense, that's what.
The wifi here sucks
Hey I'm back from wrapping up my first year at college.
Yes to maxwell (can't say I've ever heard of an evil scheme involving a chain of burger joints before) I'm going to look at The Grinch Grinches the Cat in the Hat now so I'll be back with my thoughts on that soon.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Maxwell Lord. I am always in shock at the stuff that almost gets made with these scripts.
Edited by Bullman on May 11th 2020 at 8:45:40 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Maxwell. Every time with the damn mind control burgers. One second you're enjoying a Wendy's, the next you're trying to annihilate mankind.
Forgot all about that Grinch thing... we'll see if it bears fruit.
The Unknown Unknown
Maxwell.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Beef makes you want to have beef with people, don't ya know?
Edited by erazor0707 on May 11th 2020 at 10:00:51 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Yea to Maxwell. Also, what.
The Draftsman of Doom
Maxwell.
Edit: Extraneous comment deleted at ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
suggestion.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 11th 2020 at 11:32:00 AM
Rawr.
Maxwell
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Limehouse
Sky, you know the only time you don't outright delete something is when it takes away what's part of discussion. You're bringing up the same name thing again, so there, I've archived it for you. You can go ahead and just delete that instead of crossing it out as we've asked you to stop repeating certain off topic comments.
The wifi here sucks
I just watched The Grinch Grinches the Cat in the Hat as well as Halloween Is Grinch Night and I don't really think that he counts in either short.
I'll start with Halloween is Grinch Night since that's easier. In short... this version of the Grinch sucks he's just a two dimensional jackass who is just a boring jerk the whole short and nothing else.
The Grinch Grinches the Cat in the Hat is a slightly tougher case. Here's he's a good guy until his reflection cajoles him into being evil again. He then decides to target the Cat in the Hat because he called him "Greenface." He starts by using his Vacusound Sweeper sweeper to mess with him by taking away his voice temporarily and then reconfigures the sweeper into a "dark house" which he uses to further mess with the Cat as well as inflicting a Disney Acid Sequence upon a restaurant. He's stopped when the Cat reminds him of his mother and he dismantles the Dark House in his remorse. This version is more interesting and dynamic but he's not really Magnificent Bastard material as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by papyru30 on May 11th 2020 at 9:15:53 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Well that ended up being a quick one.
Let's liven things up a bit. I got a somewhat unorthodox example from one of my favorite movies.
What's the setting?
Pulp Fiction is one of the most iconic films from director Quentin Tarantino, a 1994 movie loosely about a bunch of quirky criminals in Los Angeles. Told out of order, like a lot of Tarantino flicks, one of Pulp Fiction's many branching, interconnected plots follows Marcellus Wallace, big bad L.A. crime lord, and his efforts to take back a suitcase full of something extremely valuable that was stolen from him. One of his two main hitmen is Samuel L. Jackson's Jules motherfuckin' Winnfield.
Who is Jules Winnfield? What has he done?
The competent half of Those Two Bad Guys (playing opposite to John Travolta's character Vincent Vega) Jules Winnfield is a Bible-(mis)quoting Scary Black Man with a quick, foul mouth and an even quicker mind. Whenever he's not chumming and making Seinfeldian conversation with Vega, Jules is enforcing the iron will of Marcellus Wallace. Indeed, Marcellus Wallace does not like to be played like a bitch, and Jules appears to be a major reason why people don't get away with it.
Far more competent than his oafish, inattentive partner, Jules demonstrates the usual power he exerts over a situation by barging into the apartment of a bunch of vegged-out drug dealers who stole Wallace's suitcase. Jules pretends to act friendly to disarm the guy before casually shooting one guy dead and belting out his famous "does he look like a bitch" speech before capping the guy dead, laying down "the Lord's vengeance" on the schmuck's sorry ass. One other guy in the room attempts to get the drop on Vega and Jules but misses every single bullet at point-blank range—Vega and Jules return double the fire with triple the accuracy.
Unlike Vega, who idly brushes off his close encounter with death (and gets unceremoniously killed because of it) Jules actually takes the time to consider his own mortality and decides to call it quits in the crime business, turning over a new leaf so he can go Wandering the Earth. This revelation just so happens to coincide with a diner being robbed by an outlaw couple (simply called Pumpkin and Honey Bunny) who take an entire diner Jules is eating at hostage. The two put Jules up at gunpoint.
Jules—while Vega is conveniently occupied and the rest of the diner is too terrified to act—proceeds to singlehandedly Xanatos Gambit his way into full control of the situation. Jules resists their attempt at intimidation, and manages to trick Pumpkin into letting his guard down by nearly exposing the contents of the briefcase, taking him at gunpoint instead. Jules then proceeds to convince a shrieking, violent Honey Bunny to tell Pumpkin to lay down their guns and leave with what they already have, and even when Vega walks in and nearly fucks everything up, Jules effortlessly takes back control of the situation and defuses it, taking back his "Bad Motherfucker" wallet from Honey Bunny and Pumpkin as well. Jules delivers the briefcase, and presumably goes on to live a full life in comparison to Vega's pathetic, ignominious end.
Is he too much of a bastard?
Jules is a mob hitman. He's a showy one, but he's still a hitman. Awesome as his first scene is, it's essentially him murdering a bunch of (mostly) unarmed schmucks and his reaction to Vega accidentally killing the survivor later is tantamount to Vega spilling beer on the backseat. That said, Jules still has the redeeming qualities we need to balance him—a Villainous Friendship with his boss and Vega (no matter how stupid Vega gets) and a sort-of Heel Realization that leads him to turn over a new leaf. There are worse criminals in the film (like Zed and Maynard) so I think Jules is comfortably within the range we need him.
What's his competition like?
So...the criminals in Pulp Fiction range from:
- Vincent Vega, a monumentally-stupid assassin who accidentally shoots a guy when Jules and he are driving a car, nearly kills Wallace's wife by negligence and ends up leaving his gun out in the open whereupon it's turned on him the second after he's done taking a shit
- Honey Bunny and Pumpkin, who end up absolutely and utterly outplayed by him
- Marcellus Wallace, his boss, who ends up captured and raped by hillbillies (even if he "gets medieval" on one of them later)
- ...and Butch, who barely qualifies as "criminal" at all
Really, the single character smarter and more efficient than Jules is Winston Wolf, who I'd love to give a post too...except it would be like giving a post to the cleanup guy from John Wick. Wolf is a Consummate Professional and I fucking love every second he's onscreen, but I don't think the bit part is really enough to label him as "magnificent." Jules is the only major character in the film who thinks on his feet and consistently avoids any manner of direct humiliation (save the "they look like dorks!" scene, but this precedes Jules' epic moment in the diner), and impressively retains that dignity even when he's constantly having to fret over Vega's fuck-ups.
How does he operate?
Now, Jules isn't necessarily a grandiose schemer or anything like that. He's merely a very professional and uniquely charming hitman. I'm not really going to afford him many points for his first scene alone, given for all the memetic gloriousness of that scene it's him basically terrorizing a bunch of unarmed drug dealers. Where Jules graduates is the diner scene, where he outfoxes two criminals holding him up at gunpoint, thinking brilliantly on his feet and turning the control over the situation over to himself even when Vega nearly fucks everything up again. Everyone remembers Jules' first scene the best, but the diner scene legitimately proves Jules can demonstrate control over a situation even when the odds are against him.
Jules is quotable and charming as hell. He's loud, bombastic, and utterly hilarious. Every second he's onscreen is an absolute delight and I think he more than proves he has the enough competence to go along with that to qualify.
Conclusion?
Again, barring Winston Wolf? Jules is easily the smartest and most charismatic character in the film, and one of the very few who ends the film with his dignity completely intact. He is, frankly, an easy keeper IMO and I'm kinda stunned nobody put him up sooner.
Edited by Scraggle on May 12th 2020 at 1:39:26 PM
Hell yeah to Jules
As we discussed: yes to Jules. Ultimately it's all there: he can play people and actions as we see in the diner takeover and the adapting to call it for getting out of crimes when the film shows exactly how badly staying in it goes for Vincent covers everything we need.
Happy yes to Jules!
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
to Jules.
The Unknown Unknown
Yea to Jules, but "does he look like a bitch?"
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Hey everybody, I got another candidate for you today. Like my last one, this character also hails from an unreleased screenplay. This time, it's from the first attempt to bring the Justice League of America to the big screen.
No, it's not from the Snyder Cut... thankfully. Instead, it's from Justice League: Mortal; an attempt to adapt the team by George Miller back in the late 2000s. The movie had been casted and was set to shoot, but many factors led to it being cancelled. A combination of a writer's strike, the economic crash of 2008, and a very hefty budget led to the project getting the plugged pulled.
But what about the story itself? To put it simply, it was an amalgamation of "Tower of Babel" and "The OMAC Project" story arcs. You can read the script for yourself here
. And that brings us to today's candidate.
Who Is He and What Does He Do?
Maxwell Lord is a billionaire industrialist, with one of his many famous businesses being Planet Krypton, a chain of superhero-themed fast food restaurants. But behind his charm hides a dark past. Born Jonah Wilkes, he was one of the many children subjected to the OMAC Project, an attempt by the US government to create the perfect super-soldier. The children were subjected to numerous experiments to grant them psychic powers, but Jonah ultimately ended up as the Sole Survivor of the project. Once the military shut down the project in the late '90s, Jonah was freed and sought to reinvent himself, taking the name Maxwell Lord.
Using his intellect to amass a vast fortune for himself, Maxwell vowed to help mankind to the best of his abilities, as the world couldn't trust anyone else. Lord grew to resent the superheroes of the world, believing that they had done nothing to help him or the rest of the children who suffered at the hands of the OMAC Project. But Lord decided to use the project to his own advantage. His opportunity came when he was contacted by Talia al Ghul, the daughter of Ra's al Ghul. Talia had betrayed her father because she was in love with Batman, but was spurned when he rejected her advances. Learning that Batman was Bruce Wayne, Maxwell knew he was the type of person who'd have resources he could exploit. He had Talia seduce Bruce and slip a nanobot tracer into his bloodstream, allowing them access to the Batcave.
Batman had been keeping tabs on the superhero population and constructed a satellite system known as Brother Eye to monitor them for potential weaknesses. Maxwell was able to gain control over Brother Eye and plotted his scheme to take down Earth's heroes. He sent a note to detective/martian J'onn J'onzz that led him to a jar containing an unusual looking sea creature. It sprayed a series of nanites over his body made of magnesium, causing him to erupt into flames upon exposure to the air. Wonder Woman and the Flash were able to get him under control, but contacted Aquaman in the hopes he could uncover what was happening to him. Once on land, Maxwell sent a cybernetic mosquito to inject nanobots into Aquaman's bloodstream. This led to him developing a chronic fear of water, a problem since he would die of dehydration if separated too long from the water.
At the same time, Maxwell had also infected John Stewart (not that one) with nanomachines, which rendered him blind and unable to properly use the Green Lantern ring. Realizing someone was targeting them, Superman invited everyone to take shelter at his Fortress of Solitude until they could figure out who was behind this scheme. Batman learned that he had lost control of Brother Eye and during his patrol in Gotham, ran into a couple of gangsters that turned into OMAC cyborgs. Maxwell sent them after Batman as a test-run and only spared his life under Talia's urging. Bruce managed to track down the rest of the heroes thanks to Barry having his cellphone on him and traveled to Arctic to warn them, unknowingly giving their location away to Maxwell.
Maxwell hacked into the phone of Barry's wife Iris and called him. When he answered his phone, a nanobot entered into his body and attached itself to his spine. The Flash started vibrating uncontrollably and started phasing straight through the Earth, nearly trapping him in the planet's core. Luckily, Wonder Woman captured him and J'onn guided John to help remove the nanobot. Batman left the group to confront Talia, suspecting she was behind the attacks. However, Maxwell revealed himself as the true mastermind and laid out his plan. With the world's superheroes and governments incapable of truly helping humanity to evolve, he would take matters in his own hands personally.
Having attended Bruce's birthday party earlier, Maxwell had infected most of his guests with nanites that would turn them into OMACs. Since most of these people were either rich or highly influential, it allowed Maxwell to destabilize the top forms of society. He then had Brother Eye transmit a signal activating the first wave of OMACs. Maxwell ordered a few OMACs to attack Bruce, hoping his screams of pain would attract the other heroes to his hideout for an ambush. Superman and Wonder Woman arrived and dispatched of the OMACs attacking Bruce. But Maxwell used his psychic powers to take control of Superman, planting a fake memory that Wonder Woman had killed Lois Lane. Superman went berserk and tried to kill Diana, leading to an all-out brawl across New York.
As the rest of the heroes distracted Superman, Wonder Woman wrapped Maxwell with her Lasso of Truth and asked him how to bring Superman back to normal. Maxwell revealed the only way to stop Superman was to kill him and since Wonder Woman would never take a human life, it would only be a matter of time before Superman killed her. And as Superman was about to strangle Wonder Woman to death, it seemed he was right. However, Batman snuck up behind Maxwell and snapped his neck, freeing Superman from his control.
But, that wasn't the end of Maxwell's plan. He had transferred his consciousness into Brother Eye upon his death, which began merging with Talia. Maxwell revealed that his Planet Krypton burgers had contained nanomachines that infected every customer who ate them. Over a million served, now all turned into OMACs under his control. As Batman tries to disconnect Talia, Maxwell transfers himself into a new host body as she dies. The heroes gather together to face off against the army of OMACs, only for Maxwell to reveal his new host body: the Flash. Turning into an OMAC Ultra, Maxwell fights with Superman as the OMACs tear apart the city.
The heroes are able to reach Barry and he manages to briefly regain control of his body. Knowing that if he's freed, Maxwell would simply switch to another host, Barry decides to make the ultimate sacrifice. Running faster than he's ever done before, Barry builds up enough momentum to hit the Speed Barrier. As he busts through, he sacrifices himself while taking Maxwell Lord with him. With his control gone, the OMACs fall apart and the day is saved.
Is He Charming, Charismatic, and Good on His Feet?
Maxwell is a master manipulator, able to systemically take down each member of the Justice League before they even know who's hitting them. He's a world famous billionaire, with no one the wiser of his true intentions until it's far too late. Every step he takes, is all in service of his greater goal of world domination, all in the hopes of having humanity evolve into a grander stage. Even when he seems to be at a disadvantage, it's to lure his enemies into a false sense of security, which is how he gained control of Superman.
Is He a Bastard? Too Much of a Bastard?
Maxwell has suffered a lot as a result of the OMAC Project, and blames heroes like the Justice League for letting dozens of children die at the hands of the government. As he tells Batman, he wants to create a world where a child won't have to see their parents die in front of them. A world under his control. Of course, this means stripping everyone's free will away by turning them into cyborgs. His relationship with Talia is cordial enough, although he has no qualms about going to extremes she wouldn't resort to and isn't above sacrificing her to enact his final plan. And of course, his ways of taking out the heroes involves turning their own powers against them in horrifying ways.
Competition?
Talia is Maxwell's accomplish, while she's the one approaches him with taking over Brother Eye, she's ultimately not the one in charge. Maxwell is the one calling the shots and ultimately betrays her to implement his final plan. One could point out how Maxwell is reappropriating plans Batman had made to take out the League, but Maxwell has enough modifications to his plans that make them his own. He nearly takes control of the planet and even had his death play a part into his plan. The only part he didn't take into consideration was Barry sacrificing himself to stop him. But if Barry hadn't literally gone faster than what was physically possible, Maxwell would've won.
Verdict?
I'd say![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
. Maxwell mostly relies on his wits to take out some of the most powerful heroes on the planet, and nearly succeeded in his bid for world domination.
He's definetly a more cunning foe then Steppenwolf was.