During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The Moron
I got ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd, but yeah, she's a definite keep:
Yes: 23note
Abstain: 2note
No: 2note
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Correction applied
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 24th 2021 at 11:28:37 AM
I didn’t say yes. I didn’t vote because I haven’t seen any of it yet.
I’m good with her getting approved based on what I know though, but maybe that would count as an abstain then.
Well this seems like an easy margin...
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Frank "Hootenanny" Castle
Cortez's writeup is here!
- Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door: Pirate King Cortez is the scourge of the Pirate's Grotto, and keeper of the 5th Crystal Star, attacking and shipwrecking all who come near Keelhaul Key with his Ember army. Cortez prepares traps in Pirate's Grotto to stop any intruders, complete with bone-chilling warnings. To even get into the Grotto you need the jewel Flavio's father stole from Cortez several years ago. Able to stop the X-Nauts in an Enemy Mine with Mario after he is defeated with his army, Cortez is a frightfully competent pirate king.
Out of curiosity, is anyone okay with me doing Jonathan Johnny Jones the shark pirate king from Super Mario RPG? I was also thinking Valentina, but she's a bit too smug for me. My wish of effortposting a pirate MB was finally fulfilled.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 24th 2021 at 10:16:25 AM
Professor Gigachad
That would make Mario MB's count 4, already double the amount of CM's.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 24th 2021 at 10:14:59 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Larat and Frank.
Goku Black
So as promised. Arguably ''Charmed (1998)'s most successful villain. Coming from Season 8's penultimate episode "Kill Billie Vol.2"
Alright this one requires some backstory. Anyway the plot of this season is that triad (a trio of the most powerful demons and the last of the unvanquished old guard demons) have corrupted two witches the Jenkins sisters into acting as their way to defeat the charmed ones for good. They've framed the charmed ones for a magical massacre and now have to hide in the underworld. So they end up getting help from this guy.
Who is Nomed?
A lower level demon and a lackey of the Triad, Nomed is a cunning and snarky Visionary Villain who seeks to create a world where the newer generation of demons can arise from the shadow of the old one. Nomed first appears at Phoebe's workplace and feigns sympathy and worry to get her assistant to help him. Should she find her,to contact him. Anyway talking with his friend Zothar, he reveals hes been sending demons to try and get their attention but it hasn't suceeded.
The Triad are believed to be vanquished by the charmed ones but have instead revived in spirit form as nomed says their constant returns ensures the new generation of demons are never able to build and rise while under the yoke of the old one. The Triad are the last of the old gaurd demons, the charmed ones having vanquished all of the others (The source off all evil, Zankou, Barbas, Crone, Seer, etc.) with them gone it will allow the new generation to rise. So he plans to contact and use the charmed ones to finally vanquish the Triad for good and open the door.
Anyway Nomed knows that the charmed ones will come back to the surface eventually so lays in wait at Phoebe's apartment
NOMED: Phoebe hasn't been to work in days. But it's so much more than a job to her. She gets to help people with her column. She needs that. (knowing) She misses that. Just like Piper misses her children and Paige misses her new husband. And they'll do anything to get it all back. Believe me. Even if it means ... working with us.
Anyway after the charmed ones arrive. He convinces them that he can help and that well they have no choice. He reveals that The Triad are alive and convinces them that they need to make a deal.
PHOEBE: How? By knocking us out?
ZOHAR: We could've killed you if we wanted to.
NOMED: (wryly) Or at least we could've tried. But we didn't. The point is, if you want your lives back and you want to stop the Triad as much as we do, then you'll let us help.
PIPER: Help with what?
NOMED: I know the Triad. I used to serve under them. And more importantly, I know what they're thinking. Which means I might be able to find out what Billie and Christy's next move might be.
ZOHAR: Which might help you defeat them next time.
PAIGE: Why would a demon want our help killing another demon?
NOMED: Personal reasons. Look, all you need to know is if you're going to do what must be done to save your future, you're gonna have to trust us. Well, what do you say?
Anyway Nomed goes to magic Scholl where the jenkins sisters are. He Deduces smartly that the triad shouldn't be too far behind to keep watch on them. He follows their envoy Dumain to the Triad and discovers they plan to use the hollow (a powerful energy source which has the side effect of driving it's host insane and watching constant power) and infuse it to the jenkins sisters to beat the charmed ones. The last time this was used by the source of all evil. It caused him to go nuts and threaten the planet to the point other demons helped the charmed ones vanquish him to stop the end. So The Triad have lost it.
Anyway Nomed informs the sisters of this and convinces them to instead take the hollow as well. It will split it into two and works it enough that you know the clash between won't be apocalyptic. He then ensured that they will go after the triad first to drain them of power as it won't end unless their gone.
Anyway it's activated and the charmed ones go power hungry. Nomed sacrifices Zophar as a way to feed it (His sacrifice won't be in vain) and leaves. The charmed ones vanquish the triad but end up having a Mutual Kill with the jenkins sisters.
Time travel eventually leads to it being undone but The Triad end up getting vanquished by the charmed ones still since thanks to Nomed they know where they are.
And so ends the age of the old guard demons with Nomed set to lead the new generation into its ascendancy.
Magnificent?
Nomed is a genius. Hes a low level demon (a mook) but he ends up directly leading to the defeat of the Triad who were running a season long gambit. He knows where the charmed ones will be and uses them as a way to end the yoke of the old guard. He is able to use the jenkins sisters as a way to find Triad and discovers their plans and then use it to stir the charmed ones of the fact that this will never end unless you take them out first. In the end, he directly leads to the end of the old guard demons and unique among antagonists actually wins and gets to live to enjoy it. Hell even though the final battle gets rectonned , his information on their whereabouts still leads to the end of triad anyway. He snarky ,cool and collected and quite the villain to see.
Bastard?
Hey yeah Nomed isn't super evil or anything but he's still a demon and even sacrifices his friend for the cause. But Nomed is polite and really wants his new generation of demons to rise. He is prepared to die for his cause as he tells Zohar.
NOMED: They'll banish us to the Wasteland. Yes. Our sacrifice won't be in vain if we find a way to make sure they die, too. Understand?
Conclusion? Giving him a happy yes.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 25th 2021 at 5:53:57 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lies and Violence!
Nomed.
What was the recommended word limit for proposals again? I have one ready that's a little under 3000 words.
Yes to Nomed... I like shorter EPs but if 3k is the smallest you can get it to, that's fine!
Lies and Violence!
Sorry, this guy is actually a major player and this is a long story. If this is still too much, please let me know and I'll cut it down further.
A Practical Guide to Evil is set in a fantasy world where tropes and story elements are laws of the world that can be manipulated, set up as game/test between the forces of Above (Good) and Below (Evil). For instance, one Hero attempts to win a fight against a Villain by invoking Redemption Equals Death, playing to her sympathetic side in order to get her to turn good and, due to the narrative going on, subsequently die. Or, a Villain saying "Nothing can stop me now!" is essentially the same as suicide. (I'm going to just copy and paste from the actual trope and character sheet pages for some of these introductions, they're good summaries)
Black-and-White Morality is an objective reality here. Individuals, species and nations can be clearly and unapologetically Evil and Good. People can gain superhuman powers and a degree of in-universe Plot Armor by embodying certain archetypes, which leads to gaining a Name. The majority of Names have a definitive association with either Good or Evil, a la the Dread Empire of Praes almost always having a Dread Emperor and a Black Knight.
Named individuals are both more powerful than normal people (able to kill dozens or hundreds of Nameless Mooks or Red Shirts single-handedly) and more important in terms of fate (i.e. the plot). Fate tends to play out in patterns that can be manipulated by particularly Genre Savvy individuals. Named individuals also each have access to three personalized Aspects, initially undefined powerful moves or abilities that they gain access to at a suitably dramatic or necessary moment.
There are a few major factions. The main antagonists of the setting are the Dead King, a millennia old undead sorcerer considered the champion of Below; and the Wandering Bard, an agent of Above who's less well known but just as old, and whose mastery of stories allows her to orchestrate everything from minor character interactions to full on wars. There's also the Evil Dread Empire of Praes, led by Dread Empress Malicia and her Black Knight; the normally Good-aligned Kingdom of Callow, which has been annexed by Praes a few years ago but recently come under the control of our wonderful protagonist Catherine Foundling; the Good-aligned and nominally allied nations of the Dominion and Procer, who launch a Crusade against Praes but get stuck on the roadblock that is Callow; and the League of Free Cities, a collection of differently-aligned city-states that spend most of their time squabbling. One of these city-states is Helike.
The candidate
Kairos Theodosian is the current Named Tyrant of Helike. Three years before the events of the story (at the age of twelve), Kairos visited a seer that told him he would not live to see 13. Seeing no reason in the worship of Above Kairos overthrew his father and, upon turning thirteen, was on the throne of Helike and still alive.
The young Tyrant quickly began what can only be described as a reign of terror, which apparently included making profanity and alcohol possession both capital offenses. He's introduced murdering the emissaries of all the Good Free Cities to the League Council, sparking an all-out war between the Good and Evil aligned Free Cities.
This war, of course, attracts the attention of other Named: the Black Knight, who Kairos forms an alliance with, and the White Knight, Hanno. His encounters with the latter are pure ham. He monologues, turns his killed soldiers into zombies, utilizes flying towers and giant drilling machines, and has these delightful parting words:
He's also the first to truly express specific knowledge of the the truth of the Wandering Bard, detailing the precise workings and details of her current plans for the confrontation between Black and Hanno.
While the Black Knight of Praes is helping him, the Tyrant makes it no secret that he's going to betray him. Now, Black is smart, so smart that once the series ends I'll probably propose him here. He is a master of recognizing story beats and navigating them. Kairos still outplays him, finding all of the spies Black's had placed in his armies (and Black's spymaster is also really goddamn competent), assisting the Bard's plan to kill Black's ally, and manages to pull one over on her as well (which I cannot stress enough is a big deal) by saving Hanno for his own schemes (letting him go free under the excuse of the Hierarch being merciful, which... well, next paragraph).
He Names representative Anaxares of another Evil Free City, Bellerophon (who love communis—I, uh, I mean democracy and drawing lots so much their citizens will be killed for not thinking of the good of the people as a whole) the Hierarch, the League's leader. The representative is horrified and goes completely insane before mastering his Name enough so that he can extend his "democratic" will over reality, making entire towns start rioting and killing public officials. When the Bard comes by and tries to get him back on track (re: not Kairos' plans), he tries to put her and the Gods on trial. Even so, his refusal to actually do anything makes the Tyrant the unofficial leader of and power behind the now-united League, as he singlehandedly convinces its bickering and mistrustful leaders to go to war against both Praes and Procer.
Also Callow, despite quite literally pulling one of Cat's spies off the street "so he could swear eternal friendship to [her]." He similarly swears eternal friendship to... pretty much everyone, from Dread Empress Malicia to the Dead King to the giant monster rats that also ate his envoy. A chapter from the point of view of First Prince of Procer Cordelia best sums it up.
The Tyrant sends his forces through the notoriously dangerous shortcut of the Waning Woods (admittedly to avoid the Proceran armies) in order to join the action of the Crusade versus Callow. Upon Cat's first meeting with him (set in a captured town's money-changer shop, with absolutely no strategic value because why not), the two rib on each other while Cat warily sizes him up, the two forming an "alliance" and trading secrets about the Bard.
During the battle, Kairos makes it his life goal to engage in Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. He offers a secret alliance to the Dominion to help fight the Army of Callow only to immediately betray them, attacking the Proceran forces and (after trying to kill their war marshal) giving Callow information in exchange for numbers on the Procer and Dominion armies. Almost every single Proceran commander has been secretly corresponding with the bastard (to their recently-arrived commander's great annoyance). Basically, he's the only one with a complete picture of the battlefield... a picture he shares with the Dead King, who is invading through an unclaimed part of Arcadia and intends to kill everyone else there.
Of course, what evil alliance would it be without more backstabs! The Dead King intends to include Kairos in those he murders, while Kairos intends to use the Hierarch's reality warping power to claim the shard of Arcadia from the Dead King at the last minute, maybe even dropping it on the King's personal Hell dimension. Of course, once Kairos has captured the Proceran leaders Cat reveals she's already sold this plan out to the Dead King, and Kairos graciously accepts to join the Five-Man Band being formed to fight him. He also agrees to a truce being called after they take care of that problem — but only if, as requested by Anaxares, Hanno the White Knight stands trial for crimes against the League during the civil war.
The Tyrant (as expected) immediately betrays them, the Dead King offering the realm to Kairos once he's done with it. It's a halfhearted betrayal, though, as Kairos (who is Genre Savvy and knows exactly what he's doing) does so by throwing the Rogue Sorcerer off a cliff and declaring that's the last he'll ever see of him. Cat bluffs, saying that the Dead King offered her a hundred year truce, leading to Kairos (unable to tell if she's lying and judging it not worth the risk) gleefully switching sides, solidified when the Dead King tries to call Cat's bluff (signaling to Kairos that the Dead King is trying to appease him, and therefore he must be a threat). He continues to try and stir up trouble in the band, before immediately betraying them again. This betrayal was on behalf of the Bard, and when he brings her up the Hero known as the Grey Pilgrim stops Cat from killing him (as he thinks she's an ally).
When they're betrayed by another Hero, the Saint of Swords, they come close to detaining her until Kairos (say it with me now) betrays them and declares that "you could almost say we're invincible!" As such sayings lead to an almost assured defeat, the Saint gets a second-wind and Cat's forced to kill her, losing what could be a valuable ally against the Dead King. Pilgrim won't let Cat kill him, but he does curse him to only say the truth on pain of angelic smiting from his patron Choir of Mercy.
Mismatched eyes going wide, he looked up and waited. A moment passed and he did not die.
"Best get crawling then, I suppose," the Tyrant of Helike mused. "Until next time, friends." Without a hint of shame he flipped onto his belly and began dragging his expensive robes through the filth, fleeing the throne room like a snake slithering on the ground.
The Tyrant pops up at the Grand Alliance peace talks, having set up a shop in town so he can talk with Cat. He's taken to his "not being able to lie" thing with gusto, though he's visibly a bit more feverish in actions.
He gives her some information, also gleefully informing her that he's hosting the Dead King and Malicia's envoy to the talks, because of course he is. The two of them, along with the Dead King, play a board game. They gang up on Kairos, because of course they do.
He's pretty much lost the rest of the League at this point, while they still need him for guidance Malicia is slowly getting her hooks in them, and his multiple betrayals have burned basically all his bridges. He doesn't really care, though. He's at his destination, what further need does he have of the horse he rode in on? He gets Hanno's trial fast-tracked, and takes a poison that will calm his normally jittery body before killing him. This is his swan song.
During the trial, Anaxares lists the crimes Hanno is accused of — all complaints lodged by the Tyrant, of course. Even the ones from other Free Cities. When it gets to "attempting to pass judgment on Kairos Theodosian," though, the White Knight protests. The Angel Choir that backs him is the Choir of Judgement, they judge whether he kills someone or not. Anaxares, commun- I mean democratic bastard that he is, is a bit pissed off at this and calls the Choir down to stand trial. The Choir responds by smiting him... and he heals himself. As they try in vain to kill him, Anaxares continues with the trial, but before he can pronounce Judgement guilty with a sentence of death, Mercy begins choking him.
Kairos declares that he has won.
Mercy immediately changes course, descending on the utterly unrepentant liar with all their fury. Kairos knew the prophecy meant he wouldn't live to see thirteen years after he received his Name, and decided to spend those thirteen or however many years reaching for glory. He gives one last monologue to Cat, giving her advice and insight into the Dead King and the Wandering Bard as Anaxares, now deadlocked with Judgement, walks up to them and enters... Heaven? Whatever, Judgement is basically neutered in an eternal drawn with the Hierarch. As Kairos dies, he proudly declares that he has slain the Age of Wonders, and is greeted with thunderous applause from Below.
Magnificence and Bastardness
With many of my previous proposals I've shuffled my feet. "I'm not sure," "Well, this happens," etc. Kairos Theodosian passes with flying colors.
He's just as good a manipulator as the Bard, maybe not to her precise level but still able to set up events so that it plays in exactly the way he needs. He proves to be the most insightful and most able to foresee the plans of both the Bard and the Dead King, and those two are brilliant Chessmasters in a league of their own. Everything he does is aimed at the singular goal of crippling a Choir of the Heavens, something he achieves completely and utterly. Everything else is purely For the Evulz, as the bastard gleefully betrays every ally he has and makes every situation he's in worse because it's funny. While Cat is obviously annoyed by him they otherwise get along pretty well, and due to her lack of mediocrity Kairos gladly gives her important information with only a little bit of mistruth thrown in (and let me tell you, that is incredibly rare in this setting).
There is the issue that, during the early civil war with the rest of the League, it's briefly mentioned that he enslaved citizens of defeated cities to pull siege weapons in his armies. Dick move, but it's not a thing he regularly practices and is only a temporary measure — just part of his plan to further pressure these cities into voting for Anaraxes as Hierarch in exchange for the freedom of their citizens. Even then, it's frankly more akin to forced conscription. Slavery is almost universally despised in this setting but, quite notably, no one ever ascribes Kairos to meaningfully participating in the practice. Further revelations that all his plans were building up to scamming two genocidal immortals (out of spite at their manipulations rather than benevolence, mind you, but it still does wonders to make him cooler), combined with the already massive heinous standard, vastly overshadow this act anyway — the literal slave nation right next door is nastier in every conceivable way compared to what are, again, ultimately only intentionally-temporary forced conscripts.
Any scene he's in is almost guaranteed to get a laugh out of you. For just one of many, many examples, he replaces a representative from the religious Free City with... well, the Bible:
"Lord Deadhand, it is most uncouth of you to be staring so at the honourable delegate from Atalante," the Tyrant suddenly chided him.
He was, Hakram realized with horrified fascination, talking about the book.
"I apologize," Hakram said. "I have never seen anyone from Atalante before."
Kairos Theodosian grinned, like he was mischievous boy, and leaned forward before lowering his voice to a conspiratorial pitch.
"It's actually the Book of All Things nailed to a chair," the Tyrant of Helike confessed. "I just have a gargoyle read a verse once in a while, I don't think anyone's noticed the difference."
When the esteemed delegate returns, Kairos has two actual preachers from the city carrying it.
The Troll is hilarious and brilliant and I can't not see him up here.
Conclusion
A thunderous to Kairos Theodosian, the Tyrant of Helike.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Jun 17th 2022 at 11:15:32 AM
Hmmm... I think I'm leaning yeah, what would be Complete Monster or too evil shit seems to be getting played almost like a tongue-in-cheek parody. I'm just leery of stuff like this cuz we got the likes of Simula used (and I don't assume a fucking MLP D&D game to be taking itself seriously as War & Peace) only for Giant to go "Haha now you have to include Moriarty!" so I am gonna make note that the Knight Templar rulership is something I'm pausing at.
Lies and Violence!
Honestly, the Knight Templar rule stuff's just from the character sheet on this site. It's probably just a one-off line from the beginning of the story if I had to guess, we never actually get a glimpse of what his rule is like.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 25th 2021 at 6:33:26 AM
Okay if it's offscreen that makes me comfier... seems again almost like a joke about his archetype being The Caligula rather than showing the audience what a horror show he is. Reading what you've got, the emphasis seems to be on how funny he is.
Goku Black
Kairos the tyrant
Lies and Violence!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The fifth or so betrayal is taken seriously, but it's somewhat undercut by just how hilarious he continues to be. And even then, Cat makes it clear that she'd side with him as the lesser of four or so other evils (second least next to her, of course) every time.
Cool, we Gucci then.
to Morty, Captain Scott Miller, Prince Larat, Frank Castle, Nomed and Kairos.
@ Klavice, I would fucking love if you could get someone up from RPG, if only for the nostalgia I hold!
The Moron
Yes to Nomed and Kairos
to Kairos
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Nomed and Kairos.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Gotta love Jaws!
Woagh
to Nomed (Trying to not make a Gnomed joke here) and Kairos.
As far as I can tell it's Klavice abstaining and Bullman and Pap downvoting. Everyone else gave her upvotes and I didn't keep an exact count, but there were definitely more than seven upvotes.
Edited by jjjj2 on Mar 24th 2021 at 11:20:02 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid