Condemned by History cleanup thread

Are his old works retroactively hated? No.

Well I was thinking it was a similar case to John K or Steven Seagal where people can still talk fondly about the works they've done (e.g. Mega Man Zero/9/10 among others) but people find it hard to praise the man himself nowadays. Of course Inafune is nowhere near as scummy as John K or Seagal but as the men behind their projects, people are less willing nowadays to give them full credit for the good stuff they've brought, and latch on to their worst mistakes/ideas.

Like I said, I think that's Fallen Creator.

So, I removed the entry on Scrappy Doo and sent a PM to the troper who added it explaining that it's been agreed that entries about characters belong on Character Perception Evolution. So, hopefully there shouldn't be any issues in the near-future.

This was recently added by The Red Red Kroovy:

• The 1993 comedy The Pentagon Wars, based on Colonel James G. Burton's 1993 non-fiction book of the same name about the Troubled Production of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle program, was widely touted upon its release as a scathing indictment of the corruption within the United States' military-industrial complex. However, as time passed and people did actual research into the Bradley program, it was very quickly discovered that most of the events in the film and Burton's book were at best exaggerated and at worst completely fictional. While the film is still serviceable as an exaggerated farce satirizing government bureaucracy, as an actual historical work it's seen as heavily colored by Burton's biases and internal politicking within the military apparatus.

I bolded the part I wanted to bring up. If it's "still serviceable as an exaggerated farce satirizing government bureaucracy", is it really Condemned by History?

Bringing this up here because I don't know and I'm not particularly aware of this movie.

I know there's been pushback agains the meme hate for the Bradley in the military enthusiast community (don't know what else to call it) - I would assume that'd extend to the movie due to how fundamental it was in shaping the layman's perception of it, but I'm not super involved so I haven't seen it for myself.

Very unscientifically, I looked at IMDB reader reviews submitted in the past two years and they were mostly positive, and a twitter quote search was half-people praising it and half military enthusiasts lambdasting it for the stuff the entry talks about. So it's people the movie has been "condemned" within a specific demographic, but i'm not convinced the mainstream perception of it has changed much.

Edited by Glowsquid on Sep 24th 2022 at 7:33:20 AM

The following entries were added by new troper Neverwood:

• Bill Cosby was once looked at one of the most succesful African-American entertainers in history and one of the most beloved with a hugely succesful stand-up career, becoming known as "America's Dad" thanks to his success with The Cosby Show and paving the way for many black actors with him being one of the very first black leads in TV history with I Spy and creating the first animated series with a black cast in Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids and he was praised for the lengths to make sure the show was not stereotypical in any way(he likewise received praise for giving the Cosby parents succesful white collar careers instead of the blue collar jobs typically associated with black families on television). Many people black and white alike looked up to him as a hero, but he did receive his share of critics even at the height of his fame(With Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock both taking issue with Cosby lecturing them on using their N-Word Privileges in their stand-up comedy routines and using a lot of vulgarity)the first real backlash come in 2004 when Cosby made his rather infamous "Poundcake" speech where he seemed to blame the black community for a lot of their own struggles they were dealing with, resulting in many former fans being turned off from him. Things only got worse from there as in 2005 he was accused of sexual assault with 13 witnesses backing up the claim, it ultimately went nowhere but many fans couldn't shake the feeling that Cosby's family-friendly personality was not entirely honest. Things finally came to a head in 2014 when comedian Hannibal Buress did a stand-up routine where he called Cosby out for his moral lecturing and outright accused him of being a rapist, this set of a firestorm of allegations of assault against Cosby from at least 50 different women that went back decades(with many of the women claiming that Cosby had drugged them) resulting in Netflix cancelling his planned comedy special "77" and TV networks pulling reruns of his TV shows and many people including several of his former TV co-stars denouncing him. While some networks have since started reruning his TV shows again, to many people they(along with his stand-up comedy) are now forever tainted due to some of the now creepy moments in them(Particularly "The Cosby Show") that have aged very badly in light of the allegations against Cosby and he's gone from being a trailblazer for black entertainers to a disgusting hypocritical pariah who is the polar opposite of his family-friendly persona.
• Louis C.K. was once hailed as a brilliant comedian due to his relatable routines about sex and trying to be a family man. He was succesful through much of the 2000s and 2010s with many sold-out stand-up shows and a succesful self-titled TV show on FX that ran for several seasons. Things would ultimately come undone in late 2017 when several women accused him of masturbating in front of them without their consent. Popular opinion of him plummeted seemingly overnight, with his 2017 film "I Love You Daddy" being refused by all distributors, mainly due to its premise of an older male director trying to get into a relationship with a teenage girl played by Chloë Grace Moretz (who would later express regret over starring in the film)which people felt came off as in really poor taste in light of the allegations, resulting in C.K. buying the rights himself(though as of 2022 no official release has happened, though the film has since been leaked online)and with many stand-up venues saying they would no longer allow him to perform and many of his friends in the comedy circuit like Patton Oswalt would disavow and condemn him, projects he was involved in were cancelled(such as a TBS animated series called "Cops") he was replaced in the sequel to The Secret Life of Pets and his name was removed from TV shows he'd produced such as "One Mississippi". In 2018 things only got worse when he attempted a comeback and his stand-up routine was widely condemned for being incredibly insensitive(mainly for C.K. mocking the Parkland school students who had lost friends in the 2018 Parkland school shooting)and many called him out for his poor attempt an apology and saying that it was way too soon for him to try and make a comeback. Since then he's continued performing though at far smaller venues then in the past and like Gallagher his routines have been almost universally derided for being far more bitter and angry then in the past. At this point, very few people are willing to admit to being C.K. fans(with those remaining mostly being right-wingers who are mainly praising him to "own the libs" more so then out of any actual admiration and respect for his work) and former fans are reluctant to admit that they ever liked him.

Now, IMO, these entries are huge walls of text and fit Overshadowed by Controversy better. But, and this could just be me being paranoid, I wanted to point out the edit reason for the initial edit:

Neverwood, who added this, is a brand new troper, and this is their first edit. Unless they've been lurking for some time, I am a little nervous this could be a ban evader—how else would a brand new troper know that something is "safe to add to the page now"?

That is odd, but I don't know who they could be a ban evader of.

Aside from the Wall of Text problems, those examples also seem more appropriate for Fallen Creator, since they're both about specific people and not their works. I wonder if this trope has been used that way in the past, to avoid having to go through the "Locked Pages: Lock, UnLock and Edit requests" thread on the forums.

"I wonder if this trope has been used that way in the past, to avoid having to go through the "Locked Pages: Lock, Un Lock and Edit requests" thread on the forums."

That's very likely. I'd say Bill Cosby definitely fits the Fallen Creator label (which he surprisingly isn't on yet), but I'm not sure about Louis CK.

Recently added:

• The Nintendo DS was released during the mid-2000's, in an era before internet-accessible smartphones became widespread. As such it received a large amount of non-gaming "games", including literature, cookbooks, horoscopes, language tutors, fitness trainers, and even ones that teach players to quit smoking. By the time the late 2000's rolled around, iPhones and Android smartphones became commonplace, and such apps can be downloaded for free while capable of receiving regular updates. As such, today such DS apps are seen as curiosities at best, and a time capsule of the DS's hayday. It is very telling that the DS's successor, the Nintendo 3DS, largely lacked such apps.

These apps might qualify (maybe they were liked at the time and derided as impractical in retrospect), but as-is, this reads like a Trend Killer example (it makes the point that they're dated, but doesn't say that they're hated).

Edited by MathsAngelicVersion on Oct 14th 2022 at 3:31:55 PM

Move to Trend Killer.

Agreed

Cut cut cut. The DS itself is still liked even if most of its "casual" library isn't.

Edited by SpongeBat1 on Oct 14th 2022 at 12:02:46 PM

Pretty sure the example is only about those games, not the system itself

Edited by NAFEDUDE on Oct 15th 2022 at 4:52:50 AM

Even then, I can't say I've seen any outright vitriol or mockery directed towards those titles (barring Touch Dictionary, and even then, that's only made fun of for the fact that its original title was Touch Dic).

Heroin Chic is apparently making a comeback so it might need to be removed and possibly placed under Popularity Polynomial. https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1587928091984556032?s=46&t=1k4eXJQgwF_noaWDUrK5uA

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Nov 3rd 2022 at 1:22:18 PM

I'm not sure I'd trust anything coming from the NY Post.

Yeah, we should wait to see if the fashion actually makes a comeback and it isn't just some random internet nostalgia or false alarm.

Yeah TBH the Post isn't exactly legit, at least IMO (and I'm from New York.)

YMMV.Sonic Colors has this added by a new troper, and going from other entries on the page like Contested Sequel, seems to be more of the existing Sonic fans reevaluating it than everyone.

"* Condemnedby History: Overlapping with the examples above, following the negative reception of Sonic Forces, this game began to fall under some serious scrutiny as fans of the late 2000's "Dark Age" games, along with Colors' detractors from back in the day, became MUCH more vocal. Colors is now often seen as the scapegoat for everything wrong with the 2010's style games, especially as its' predecessor, which started the Boost formula that this game builds on, continues to be seem in more and more of a favorable light. Nowadays most see Colors as mediocre at best and franchise-damaging at worst. While it did gain some favor back with the announcement of Sonic Colors Ultimate, considering how THAT game turned out (see Porting Disaster below), it shows that this game's reputation will remain pretty negative for the foreseeable future."

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 4th 2022 at 4:59:53 AM

Even ignoring that Colors isn't fully CBH, that entry is way too complainy and grammatically incorrect in a few places.

I'd also like to note that Ultimate got mostly positive reviews in spite of its rough launch, so it's definitely not an example.

Game better fits under Contested Sequel and Broken Base

This was just recently added to Condemned by History:

• Similar to Steven Seagal above, fellow 80s and 90s action star Chuck Norris experienced a box-office decline in the mid-90s with flops like Top Dog and Forest Warrior, as critics began pointing out his Typecasting as the Invincible Hero in Patriotic Fervor action films that went out of fashion with the end of the Cold War. By the time Walker, Texas Ranger ended in 2001, Norris is largely relegated to Direct to Video roles and cameo appearances. Norris experienced a brief late-2000s Career Resurrection thanks to Chuck Norris facts and a cameo in The Expendables 2, which eventually subsided as his political and religious views began to rear their heads, including his opposition to same-sex marriage and vaccinations, and claim that the reelection of Barack Obama in 2012 would cause "10,000 years of darkness". While Norris still maintain a following among the martial arts community and Christian Evangelical crowd, his film career is all but over, outside of the occasional cameo appearance, while his early films are seen as So Bad, It's Good at best, and excessively jingoistic at worst.

Opinions?

If he is still able to maintain a following among the martial arts community, he probably should be cut. At least in Steven Segal's entry, it's pointed out that his signature style of fighting is considered better for defense than offense.

Edited by Paperfly on Nov 5th 2022 at 1:12:33 AM

Along with the conservative Evangelical crowd...

Yeah, he's welcomed by his niche. He's not CBH because his actual target audience still like him.