The Scrappy Cleanup

I think Hifumi still counts as a Scrappy since he's portrayed at least somewhat sympathetically (at least before he commits murder). I don't think any Danganronpa characters are really meant to be hated except Monaca and possibly the Steering Committee.

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 20th 2018 at 7:56:42 AM

Anyone considered looking through these pages?

• Final Fantasy
• Tales Series

Also found this zero-context example on Alone in the Dark: Sarah Flores in the 2008 reboot, considering how annoying and useless to the plot she is.

Edited by MasterJoseph on Nov 20th 2018 at 7:45:52 AM

I'll give it a shot.

Right off the bat we got two Tier Induced Scrappy Tellah and Edward. Eddy is actually well liked by the Japanese and Tellah is only hated for having the lowest MP of the game making him a Crutch Character.

"Rosa has never lived down her two moments of being a Damsel in Distress, and they have painted her in that mold despite her being freed about a third of the way into the game. She also suffers backlash from Kain/Cecil shippers, and being Overshadowed by Awesome with Rydia, who is seen as a far more interesting character with a deeper backstory and more impressive abilities (namely Summon Magic). At best among most fans, Rosa isn't hated, she's simply seen as a bland and boring character compared to the rest of the cast."

This even states she's not hated just seen as bland. That's another easy cut.

Edited by Klavice on Nov 20th 2018 at 9:12:04 AM

Yeah, I'm not sure anyone's really hated by a significant enough portion of the fanbase in FFIV.

Edward is actually quite liked, especially if you count (which we do) cases where he's ironically liked. It's not like most people want him gone from the game.

Quina from FFIX does have fans who enjoy his/her comic relief role and extremely powerful Blue Magic abilities. Not sure about Eiko, I personally wasn't such a big fan of hers but not to the point of actively disliking her.

Seymour from FFX has only one argument given for his presence on the page, which is that he's a Recurring Boss. That doesn't really sound like a strong enough argument to make someone The Scrappy.

Umaro is another example of Tier Induced Scrappy in that people like him, he's just not fun to play as due to Berserk.

There's also this on FFVI:

"There's also Cyan, a Samurai spends most of the game moping (though it's justified; his ENTIRE NATION and his FAMILY was killed early on), speaks in Ye Olde Butcherede Englishe (that other characters openly mock), has rather low magic stats in battle, and his special ability, Swd Tech/Bushido, takes forever to charge up. This was sort of fixed in the IOS version, where you can select your Swd Tech before you charge it."

Again hated because he's not fun to play as, but for the most part most people I've seen play FFVI like Cyan. He's nobody's favourite but until Auron came along he was the definitive Badass Samurai.

As for Eiko, she really isn't hated. Most players found her Precocious Crush on Zidane cute, never mind that she's arguably a better healer than Dagger/Garnet. Having been in the Final Fantasy fandom for a while, I can see what characters were liked and hated. So far, out of the ones I've checked, the only keeper is that kid at the auction house in FFVI and maybe Zorn and Thorn.

For FFVII:

Cait Sith was hated at first for being a Jerkass Playing Both Sides. Of course that's before the reveal of him being controlled by Reeve and his Heroic Sacrifice which pretty much silenced the haters. Cut.

Genesis I could believe except he's yet another case of Americans Hate Tingle. Being a love-letter to a popular J-Pop singer, he's actually an Ensemble Dark Horse in Japan. Cut.

Angeal is a mixed bag. He's not HATED outside of Japan, but seen as an annoyance for coddling Zack, but inside of Japan, all of the Crisis Core cast are well liked. In other words: Americans Hate Tingle. Cut!

Edited by Klavice on Nov 21st 2018 at 1:20:30 AM

I think that Prince Blueblood qualifies more as a Hate Sink, since he was very obviously written as a Prince Charmless and a jerk to Rarity, whom we were never meant to sympathize with.

Not only that, but like another example I removed (Angel Bunny) he has since redeemed himself in the comics and genuinely cares about Rarity now, just like Angel comforted Fluttershy and has since been seen in a more favourable light. Not only that but there's a disturbing amount of fan works that ship him with Fluttershy as a good husband.

I haven't gotten a word regarding these characters from Donkey Kong 64:

• The goddamn racing Beetle and his hellish slide races, where you have to collect a certain number of coins AND win.
• Troff and Scoff, for having very unappealing designs.

Cut the Beetle since the reasons listed for hating him are gameplay related and not characterization or narrative related. Move it to That One Level or That One Sidequest if it isn't already mentioned there. Cut Troff and Scoff since it reads more like a personal gripe.

Oh yeah, if Canary Mary is on Banjo Kazooie I think she should be cut. After all, the reason people hate her again, is gameplay related and should be listed under That One Level or something.

Also Prishe is listed under Scrappy from FFXI and while I haven't played the game, I noticed like Vaan, she got a much warmer reception in Dissidia 012.

I have a question. Can you a character be considered The Scrappy if they are designed to be a Hate Sink but the fandom ends up hating the character even more than the writers intended? (Not only for being an unpleasant villain but also being something else like a Karma Houdini)

Usually, if you are a Hate Sink then you cannot be The Scrappy

...How do you "hate a Hate Sink more than the author intended?" How do you accurately judge how much an author wants you to hate a Hate Sink?

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Nov 27th 2018 at 10:58:13 AM

The Scrappy and Hate Sink aren't mutually exclusive. That goes with a big But, though. For a Hate Sink to qualify it has to be clear that the kind of hatred is not intended, and that it's in the form of the character ruining the work. The example has to have enough context to clarify that.

If people don't think the work would be better without the character, then it's not The Scrappy. Just wanting to kill the character isn't enough. They have to want the character gone from the work.

Okay, for Tales...

• Tales of Destiny: Valid, very few people actually like Rutee.

• Tales of Symphonia: Chocolat example seems valid, but she's a pretty minor part of the game so I'm not quite sure. Rodyle just reads as "liked less than the other generals".

• Tales of Legendia: Walter belongs on Americans Hate Tingle, he's got Japanese fans.

• Tales of the Abyss: Anise yes, not sure about Arietta (most discussion I've seen has been sympathetic towards her), Mohs is more of a Hate Sink with an Alas, Poor Villain moment that didn't resonate with the audience (maybe put him under Unintentionally Unsympathetic?). Mieu is deliberately annoying.

• Tales of Innocence: I'm not familiar enough with Innocence's fandom to comment.

• Tales of Vesperia: Karol and Sodia yes, Karol example probably needs to be cut down though. Duke isn't really hated, people just say he shouldn't have been the final boss. Alexei isn't hated so cut him.

• Tales of Hearts: See Innocence.

• Tales of Graces: Intentional example, cut. You're not supposed to see Asbel as being in the right.

• Tales of Xillia: I think most people are indifferent to Teepo. Ivar definitely qualifies but that example needs some added context I think. Muzet is more of That One Boss and most people warmed up to her in Xillia 2, so maybe also under Rescued from the Scrappy Heap?

• Tales of Xillia 2: Nova might belong under Scrappy Mechanic or Hate Sink, the game gives you the chance to mouth off at her for trying to cheerily collect debt at an inappropriate time.

• Tales of Zestiria: Oh gods this again. We've had so much back and forth over Rose. She is not liked in Japan and merely base breaking in North America, so I'd put her in The Scrappy and under Germans Love David Hasselhoff. Sorey and Alisha should be cut and moved to Base-Breaking Character. Symmone from what I understand is a Hate Sink and Heldalf... Ehh, maybe, but I think a large portion of the fanbase is indifferent to him so... Cut?

Edited by PhiSat on Nov 27th 2018 at 11:45:50 AM

Ok, because there is a character from the Professor Layton series that is a Hate Sink but he is also a huge scrappy. A lot of people hate him, here is the write up in the YMMV page:

• The Scrappy: Bill Hawks. The guy is essentially responsible for most of the game's conflict, exemplifying the trope Sleazy Politician that most people usually hate, yet you spend much of the game trying to rescue the bastard. And yet Clive somehow lets him get away with it, too! Also, he's ugly. He's particularly a popular Acceptable Target amongst the Top Ten List community. Then again, he may have been an intentional Hate Sink right from the start; it's hard to tell. But even then, a Hate Sink is supposed to ultimately suffer for the audience's catharsis — something which Hawks avoids, therefore just being an unpleasant source of burnout.

Is this still a viable scrappy candidate? That's why i asked if a Hate Sink can be a Scrappy

I'm going to say no. Reads too much like personal wonking, and doesn't really say anything about what the majority of the fanbase really thinks about him. I'd like to know what the Japanese audience thinks about him to make sure Americans Hate Tingle isn't in play.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Nov 27th 2018 at 1:00:35 AM

Having played Symphonia, I'm gonna say no to Chocolat. While she isn't beloved, her reasons for disliking Lloyd are valid and not really irrational hatred. Think of how you would feel if someone you knew murdered your grandma controlled by evil or not.

Grief stricken people are not Scrappies.

The Scrappy is purely about the audience reaction, not how "logical" it is. There are plenty of existing examples where the character is hated for goofy or outright moronic reasons; Die for Our Ship is an entire subtrope.

That said, it's also supposed to be more intense then just "not beloved", if that's an accurate characterization.

On Total Drama Presents: The Ridonculous Race, all of the Scrappy entries refer to teams of two.

• The Scrappy:
  • The LARPers. Having Leonard return, after his extremely negative reception in Pahkitew Island already dampened their popularity. But the fact he still had no purpose in the season other than to be elimination fodder (added in at the last minute in order to save money on production) did not help his cause at all. Tammy doesn't fare any better, having almost no lines, or characterization outside of throwing confetti which gives her even less purpose than Leonard. There is however a portion of the fanbase who felt Leonard was more tolerable than he was in Pahkitew Island, due to getting a bit of backstory on why he's a delusional geek, but he still has very little fans.
  • The Adversity Twins, Mickey and Jay, are extremely unpopular due to being complete clones of Cameron (right down to their designs being recolors of his original design), minus anything that made him likable (like his intellect or his ability to manipulate stronger competitors). Their forced Woobie status that tried to make viewers feel sorry for them and the initial belief that they would follow the underdog route and make it far in the game didn't do them any favors either. That being said, their hatred subsided a bit as time went on, where they had interactions with other characters, most notably their "trial alliance" with the Sisters, and as it became apparent they weren't main characters as they do not end up going the 'underdog' route and get eliminated before the halfway point.
  • Best Friends Carrie & Devin, who viewers found bland and limited compared to the other contestants, and the Romantic Plot Tumor was their only characterization. They're so bad, that many refer to them as Zoke^note Zoey/Mike 2.0 while a smaller portion also refer to Carrie as "Blonde Zoey".
  • The Stepbrothers, Chet and Lorenzo, were extremely despised for doing nothing but yelling insults and fighting yet still continued to stay in the game up until a little past the halfway-mark of the season. Their childish insults were considered immensely annoying and ear grating and many thought they were even more irritating after they made up and became friends.

Is this allowed?

How do you guys feel about this example from YMMV.Bartok The Magnificent?

• The Scrappy: Bartok was considered humorous in Anastasia because he played the minor role of a sarcastic sidekick to the bad guy. Here, he's plopped into the major role of a hero with little of his previous traits, which makes him more bland and irritating than in his debut.
  • Some people don't like Piloff.

A Scrappy cannot be a group. If a group is hated by the fandom I believe there's an entirely different trope for that but it's not The Scrappy.

Continuing with Final Fantasy...

Vaan, Prishe, and Penello are all popular in Japan, and Vaan is much less hated in the West after his appearance in Dissidia 012. As is Prishe which downplayed her assumed Creator's Pet status.

Can real life people be The Scrappy? Because if not we got a lot of cuts to do on the Survivor page. I guess you could argue they are people playing characters but some of these people are legit unpleasant so yeah.

The people in reality shows are generally not exactly the same in real life as they are on the show, due to a combination of the artificiality of the situation, the perceived need to be 'interesting' enough to be kept around, and deceptive editing practices on the part of the show's producers.

As such, it is safe to consider the on-show appearance to be a separate individual from the actual person.

Howdy. Let's bring this to review:

The Scrappy: *As told in Unintentionally Unsympathetic & Replacement Scrappy, Grace. While a bit more respected than his Girlfriend above, Super Spesh isn't exactly well liked either, with many finding him to be rather annoying. Even though He was supposed to be hated B.J.'s abusive father has been criticised by a few players for being a rather flat potrayal of an Abusive Parent, Some Even thought that his Infamous Kick the Dog flashback to be more cartoony and was trying to hard to hate an already hateable character.

Number one, it's terribly written. Number two, Grace is not considered Unintentionally Unsympathetic anymore according to that particular cleanup. Number three, the characters are quite divisive, not scrappies. Also, Rip is an absolute Hate Sink and complaining that he's too evil is the point. I hope this discussion is brief, because I really want to burn these entries. Personal bias, though. I could be wrong.

Oh yeah Yasuhiro is a Scrappy in Danganronpa and yet the fanbase considers him rescued later on after her puts his conman schtick to rest and pays his debts.

I'm guessing he should be cut in that case as unlike Hifumi he is rescued while Hifumi is not. hifumi does get an Alas, Poor Scrappy moment but still.

Edited by Klavice on Dec 2nd 2018 at 7:49:32 AM