Is this an example?

From Obliviously Evil for WesternAnimation.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic.

• In the episode, "A Friend in Deed", Pinkie is just trying to make friends with Cranky Doodle. Unfortunately, this involves publicly humiliating him, stalking him, breaking into his home, accidentally destroying his most prized possession, and otherwise terrorizing him.
• And in "Too Many Pinkie Pies", her mirror pool clones just want to have fun!note
• "Wonderbolt Academy" gives us Lightning Dust, a hotshot who seems to believe that her need to prove herself and score points in exercises comes above the accomplishments and physical well-being of other ponies, to the point that her response to nearly killing five bystanders is "Yeah, so?"
• The Smooze in "Make New Friends but Keep Discord", who seems to be a mix of the "instinctual animal", "not smart enough to understand" and "Eldritch Abomination" variants on this trope; he eats everything in sight (especially shiny things) because he likes to eat shiny things and once he gets big enough, covers the entire gala in his indestructible slime. All the while, he doesn't seem to realize that he's doing anything wrong.

First one seems more annoying, dangerously annoying. Second is a ZCE. Third and fourth looks about right since they are causing harm.

I'd argue the Pinkie entries are disqualified on the grounds that the very first sentence of the trope is "A villain who is convinced that his actions are acceptable or helpful." Also on the grounds of " quite capable of causing tyranny, tragedy, chaos, wanton destruction, etc". The "Too Many Pinkie Pies" one could make that one work (since the context to the entry is all the Pinkie clones are wreaking havoc all over town wanting to have fun)

Lightning Dust would qualify as an antagonist who has no reason to think she's doing anything objectionable (and, in fact, the person on charge of their training gets called out on this at the end).

Can I Just Shot Marvin in the Face be applied to any other weapon than a gun, as long as it's an injury or death caused by negligent or incompetent handling of a weapon that shouldn't have hit the victim at all?

Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 13th 2019 at 4:32:46 AM

I don't see why not, it's just that guns are far more likely to be the weapon involved than any other.

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Found this on YMMV.Castlevania 2017:

Season 1 is four episodes long, and Season 2 is eight. The episodes are less than thirty minutes long each, and, being a Netflix show, were released all at once.

The idea of someone losing patience with a story arc that they can, and almost certainly will, watch the entirety of in a single sitting is laughable.

Edited by Primis on Mar 13th 2019 at 10:52:10 AM

I'm thinking about adding two examples to the One Piece YMMV page:

• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • The Thousand Sunny includes an Aquarium Bar, where the guests (usually the Straw Hats) are served alcoholic drinks. After the 4Kids dub finished production in 2006, Sanji's first voice actor, David Moo, co-founded the Quarter Bar in 2007; he has been serving as the bartender ever since. Sanji's Brooklyn accent can also become amusing since the Quarter Bar is actually based in Brooklyn.
  • Back when 4Kids had the rights to One Piece, then-President Alfred Kahn told Anime News Network that there was a definite possibility of releasing an uncut version. Funny, considering that Funimation would go on acquire the license and release it in its uncensored glory starting in 2008.
  • Virtually all of the jabs made at the voice acting in 4Kids dub from its inception until production ceased in 2006 became this after the Funimation dub got to the point where the latter dub's main Straw Hat voice actors would voice their fake counterparts, accents and all.

Any thoughts?

Edited by gjjones on Mar 13th 2019 at 2:14:09 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Gonna have to say to the first two, possibly all three.

The first one basically boils down to "a bar exists", and the second one is literally "someone said an uncut version could be released... and then it was".

I don't understand the third example. Do you mean the 4Kids actors returned to voice the fake counterparts? If so, then that one might able to stay. If that's not what you mean, though, then I have no idea what's so "hilarious" about it.

To clarify, the Funimation dub's voice actors for the Straw Hats managed to voice the fake ones, with Luci Christian and Christopher Sabat putting on accents for those characters (a Southern accent for Fake Robin and a Brooklyn accent for Fake Sanji).

Edited by gjjones on Mar 13th 2019 at 2:08:15 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Primis@ I would agree. A fatigue cant happen in that short of an episode of 4. Though, im not sure when it comes to 8.

~gjjones, the "In Hindsight" tropes, as I've usually understood them, require a direct link. Those entries all consist of "this thing happened, then this other thing also happened".

For example, in the entry of that Fake Straw Hat Casting Gag, if one of the voice actors voicing a fake straw hat initially auditioned to play that Straw Hat for real, that could be Hilarious in Hindsight. Even if it isn't, it at least has a direct link to the later event sparking the hindsight.

I went ahead and cut it. The Arc Fatigue page says that the arc most go on for months to even years. Eight, <30-minute episodes released all at once is not that.

Edited by Primis on Mar 14th 2019 at 8:29:06 AM

This is listed on Recap.Tintin Explorers On The Moon. This violates Repair, Don't Respond, but I'm not familiar with the topic so I don't know if the example qualifies for the trope or not. Can someone verify?

• Tech Marches On: The rocket operates by the "direct ascent" model of the whole rocket landing and later leaving on the moon in one piece. Later, NASA concluded that they could never make such a vehicle land tail down safely and went with the method of "Lunar orbit rendezvous," having the rocket traveling in ejecting stages and using a separate lander to land on the moon with the command capsule waiting in orbit to link back up and return to Earth.
  • More an inversion in this case: a direct ascent (SSTO = single stage to orbit) and landing requires either much more efficient rockets or MUCH bigger spaceships: both are as much out of reach now as they were then. In fact, a manned landing on the moon is impossible today or in the foreseeable future - but wasn't 50 years ago...

As a matter of fact, Eric Vale provided the test voice for Luffy when Funimation was in the running to acquire the rights to air the series way back in 2002. Fifteen years later, Vale would go on to play a fake version of said character in the Funimation dub. Would this work?

Edited by gjjones on Mar 14th 2019 at 7:21:56 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I think this is the appropriate place to ask this. Does Everybody Hates Hades count if the god in question is an entirely fictional evil death god? As a sub-trope of Sadly Mythtaken I have always thought that it was for evil fictional versions of existing death gods but a number of examples I have seen on the page, such as a lot of the examples in the Tabletop Games folder, don't have any connection to real life death gods. For example:

• Varies somewhat in the Forgotten Realms setting, where there have been a total of four gods of death over the years. Jergal was uncaring and unsettling, Myrkul was cruel and capricious, and Cyric was outright Ax-Crazy. The incumbent Kelemvor, however, is Lawful Neutral and directs his clergy to comfort the bereaved and slay undead rather than propagate them (which is sometimes difficult when your temple is a repurposed one to Myrkul or Cyric, due to Kelemvor only having been on the job for two years as of 3rd Edition).
• Pathfinder: Averted with the core deity, Pharasma. She's pretty reasonable overall, gets along with nearly all the other gods, her church has a reputation for being good mediators and avoiding conflict, and even though she's The Grim Reaper, she has no problem with you being resurrected (it wasn't really your time yet). Just don't be undead. Ever.
• Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is an interesting case. In the Old World, there were many Gods of Death, and foremost among them was Morr, who was a pretty nice guy all things considered and closer to Discworld's Death than anything else. Then, in the thousands of years between the setting's destruction in Warhammer: The End Times and the time of its successor game, the sociopathic Jerkass who invented necromancy in the setting, Nagash, managed to usurp all of them, and now rules every afterlife, and the Mortal Realm tied to death magic, to boot. So, an outright evil Death God took the places of several that this trope fit.
• Warhammer: As mentioned above, Morr, God of Death is a subversion. While most people see Morr as an influence to be placated and feared rather than worshipped, the cult of Morr is generally respected for its devotion to tending the dead, as well as Humanity's first and last line of defense against the undead.

Edited by SebastianGray on Mar 15th 2019 at 8:56:11 AM

We already have a trope for positively-portrayed death gods/incarnations in general.

Edited by nrjxll on Mar 15th 2019 at 4:03:36 AM

Thanks but that wasn't my question. I was asking if the trope counted for entirely fictional evil death gods or just ones based on real life death gods.

Ah. The post was a bit confusing because all of the examples claimed to be subversions/aversions - I'm inclined to say it should only count for real-world mythology.

Edited by nrjxll on Mar 15th 2019 at 4:37:46 AM

If it feels like The LEGO Movie 2 underperformed because of an inconvenient release date^note inclement weather, heavy competition in the following weeks, possibly too long after The LEGO Movie, but I don't know if WB meant to time the movie so poorly, did it still get Screwed by the Network?

Protagonist-Centered Morality lists this:

• This trope is in full action in Vuk the Little Fox. Since the story focuses on Vuk, he is treated as a good guy, despite killing a lot of (apparently sentient) animals for food, and systematically destroying a man's property. At the same time, the hunter is treated as the Big Bad, even though he just kills foxes to protect his livestock.

Is this a real example? It's reasonable that a fox would kill animals for food, and a hunter who kills foxes is certainly going to be a villain in the fox's eyes.

Would Harmony Gold count as an example of Fallen Creator? They used to be best known for making the beloved Robotech, and now they're just known as IP trolls who prevent the Macross franchise from getting released in the States based on a copyright they don't even own according to Japanese courts.

Keet cleanup

While I’m still waiting for the Hilarious in Hindsight query regarding Eric Vale and Luffy, I would like to post my proposed example for Creator Killer:

• Despite receiving critical acclaim, the box office failure of The Tale of Princess Kaguya was one of the factors that led director Isao Takahata to retire from filmmaking. His chronic inability to finish his works on time didn’t help matters either.

Thoughts?

Edited by gjjones on Mar 15th 2019 at 7:01:52 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Sorry, ~gjjones, I missed your reply.

In that situation, I'm willing to say yes to Hilarious in Hindsight. The guy tried out for Luffy, got (I think?) Sanji, but go on to play the fake Luffy in the imposter Straw Hat Casting Gag.

Might be worth a second opinion but that's good enough for my concerns about a direct link from one to the other.

No bad feelings.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

~dsneybuf — based on your post, I don't think The LEGO Movie 2 has been Screwed by the Network.

~jamaicanst01 — The Vuk the Little Fox example for Protagonist-Centered Morality sounds perfectly acceptable to me because it's reasonable to assume a fox would kill animals for food, and a hunter who kills foxes will be a villain in the fox's eyes.

~rjd1922 — Based on this thread, Flame Bait means no examples allowed anywhere.

~gjjone — The Creator Killer example looks good, but I'd prefer it to link to the work in question and not reference other mistakes (if the other mistakes could outweigh the film being a success, it wouldn't be a Creator Killer by failing). Something like this:

• The Tale of the Princess Kaguya: Despite receiving critical acclaim, the box office failure of this movie was a major factor in director Isao Takahata's decision to retire from filmmaking.

However, the Wikipedia page doesn't really support the idea that he retired because of poor reception (health problems within three years of the movie's release seems more prominent).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

YMMV.Goblin Slayer

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: Many people swore off the series with the first chapter/episode alone, as it features a party of adventurers who are mercilessly Killed Off for Real or gang-raped by goblins, save Priestess who is rescued by Goblin Slayer - and then he mercilessly kills all the goblins, even their children. Had they looked a little further into the series, they would have learned the full extent of the goblins' monstrosity and why our protagonist killing every last one of them doesn't actually sound as bad as they thought.

Besides now arguing with itself, I say cut since DIAA is when you lose vestment, if you were put off before you start not this. Any tropes this falls under?

I was talking about the Fallen Creator page, which has examples.

Keet cleanup