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WMG / Umineko When They Cry Jossed

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This is a page for wild mass guesses from the series Umineko: When They Cry which have been Jossed by the series or Word of God. If a WMG on one of the open pages is Jossed, please move it here.

Please add new Jossed entries to the bottom of the page.

The murderer of the children in the first arc is Battler.
At the end, he is the only one with a weapon, aimed at the only confirmed victim of the four (Remember Maria's jawbone?), and is never confirmed to be dead. In addition, his repetition of the idea that he's going to live over and over again near the end echoes Keiichi in Onikakushi-hen (Not that I can blame him for that sentiment, but...). He was driven nuts by the past murders and hallucinated Beatrice's appearance, at which point he shot Maria and perhaps Jessica and George (They might have helped him in the murder, if you want to alter it a little bit). After that, he pulled a Natsumi, chopped up all of the previous corpses, and scattered them all over the mansion. He then camped out in Kinzo's study, which was previously established as the only safe place in his mind, and everything that takes place in "Purgatorio" is actually just him hallucinating and inflicting mental punishment upon himself.
  • Jossed in Episode 5. Battler-kun is not the culprit. Battler-kun didn't kill anyone. This can be said of all games. This Red Truth was stated by Virgilia.
    • Now...when you say "Battler" are you referring to Meta-Battler, the guy with the red hair everyone is calling Battler, or some other Battler?
      • Since I don't think meta-Battler has ever affected anything on the game board, I would assume they're referring to the red-haired guy on the board.
      • Battler himself suggests that...but Dlanor A. Knox counters with one of her rules, "The detective cannot be the culprit!" Since Battler could be considered the detective for every arc up until 5 when Erika takes his place, he can't be the culprit for any of the "question" arcs.
      • There is another person trying to unravel the story, and that person is not on the island and therefore not the culprit. I propose that the audience is the true detective.
      • But then there wouldn't be a Fourth Wall!
      • So? At least one character is aware of us.
      • (5th poster here.) note  You don't understand. If there's No Fourth Wall, things will become really bad around here.
      • It's possible if the 'games' between Battler and Beatrice start during Episode 2. I think Battler himself mentions that things didn't really start between himself and Beatrice until Episode 2, therefore, it's possible that Episode 1 wasn't really a game, and Virgilia's Red Truth and Knox's 7th wouldn't apply.

Ange's bodyguard is actually Battler's Evil Twin
Juuza looks suspicious just on appearance. He's a white haired Bishōnen who has one of his eyes covered, has a name made of numbers which worked oh so well for the Big Bad in Higurashi, and wears crosses, so first of all, he's setting off all of my scanners for "secretly evil." Okay, now to the theory: both Asumu and Kyrie were supposed to have had children around the same time, but Kyrie's was supposedly a stillbirth. Since the fourth arc, a lot of people have been working under the assumption that Battler was actually Kyrie's child, and perhaps Asumu was the one with the stillbirth. But what if Kyrie actually had a second child too, and for some reason gave him up as well? He shares a resemblance to her, what with the white hair. In addition, he looks to be about the same age Battler would be had he lived until 1998. Or perhaps he was actually Asumu's child (we've never seen what she looks like) and was raised in secret because of some sort of disability we don't know about yet? And she got Battler, who was still Kyrie's son, in his place. That might explain the "two Battlers" conundrum.

Ange's bodyguard is actually Battler
And a homage to a certain other popular visual novel franchise. Points in favour: We never saw Battler's body after the events of Banquet of the Golden Witch, both affect a 'crosses for no reason' aesthetic, both are very protective of Ange, and... it would be funny.
  • If Battler is Kyrie's son, it's even easier: he doesn't need to start dying his hair, but only to stop doing so.
  • Actually, she wears a cross on her tie too, unless I'm mistaking it for something else.
  • In that case, if I may play Devil's Advocate, we assume he survived. Why on earth hide from everyone?
    • Crazy aunt who shot him in the chest.
      • Why does he continue to hide after the crazy aunt died? Eva Ushiromiya is most certainly already dead by 1998.
      • In order to effectively change yourself into another person, you have to give up who you used to be. That, or he's too used to being Amakuza to go back.

Beatrice is the mother of at least one of the Ushiromiya siblings, and possibly all of them.
I honestly did have several good arguments for this, but I came up with them at 3 in the morning and the only one I can remember is that it would explain their oddly Caucasian appearance. (Not that this is something that's usually explained at all in anime.)
  • It would work particularly well with Krauss, considering that a) Kinzo had known Beatrice since before he married Battler's grandmother, so the eldest would be most likely in theory, and b) Both Krauss and Jessica have blond-ish to blond hair, unlike the other siblings and grandkids.

Beatrice is Jessica's mother
Specfically, the Beatrice of Kuwadorian. Krauss and Natsuhi suffered a lot of political grief for being unable to conceive a heir. Suddenly, after 10 years, Natsuhi 'magically' produces a baby. Gosh. If only there were another woman of childbearing age on the island around that time period...
  • She died when Rosa was about 10, right? Natsuhi had Jessica 18 years ago. Is Rosa only 28 years old? That means she had Maria at 19, so it's possible, but still seems unlikely.
    • Actually, the death of that Beatrice was less then 19 years ago (as she was alive to talk with Kinzo 19 years ago). Rosa also stated that it happen 'about 20 years ago', therefore Rosa couldn't be much older then 30 anyway. Furthermore, one of the main reasons she was so bullied by her siblings was she is much younger, making that age more believable.
      • According to the anime, Kuwadorian stopped taking deliveries in 1968—18 years before 1986. The boat captain guessed that's when Beatrice died.

Rena is another one of the servants at the Ushiromiya mansion.
It's stated that there are two other servants who work at the mansion but don't have their shifts on the days when the Ushiromiya family gathers there - Manon and, here's the kicker, Renon. This kakera's version of Rena's parent issues went even worse, and for some reason, she was left at the Fukuin house. Eventually, she was allowed to serve at the Ushiromiya Mansion, and in adopting the "on" character, changed her name to "Renon." Note: This only works if she is just called "Rena" in this world and didn't have to switch from "Reina." Still has some minor problems with the difference between "Rena" (Higurashi name in katakana) and Ren'a (name the way it would have to be written with the "ren" character), unless there's an alternate reading that fits better.

The story is more closely connected to Higurashi than anyone realizes.
Umineko's alternate title is "When They Cry 3". Of course, Higurashi was When They Cry 1 and Higurashi Kai was When They Cry 2. So why assume that Bern and Lambda's appearances/"real-world" identities are the only link between them when the title itself implies Umineko is a sequel? Episode 4 has revealed another Higurashi character as connected (albeit loosely) with the Ushiromiyas.

Perhaps Rokkenjima is a test site for a weaponized form of Hinamizawa Syndrome. Or perhaps it's the other way around, and witch's magic was directly responsible for the Hinamizawa incidents. Either way, something tells me we haven't heard the last of Keiichi and co. (Also, I'm led to believe that in the original visual novels, Satoshi's whereabouts were still unknown by the end, although they changed this in the anime. Perhaps he is somehow involved in the Rokkenjima incident?)

  • They found Satoshi at the end of Higurashi Kai's VN (I'm pretty sure; the Kai adaptation was much more faithful than vanilla Higurashi) so I don't think he's related to Rokkenjima. And if you're talking about Okonogi, he only came in recently. Most likely after the Hinamizawa project fell through, he decided to start a legitimate business and became successful after meeting with Hideyoshi and striking a deal with him. In the span of 3 years, I doubt he would have any significance and was thrown in as a cameo.
  • Dlanor denies the possibilities of a disease or paranoia epidemic happening on the island. Ryukishi 07 has also stated in an interview that he would not be pulling something like that again, and has officially denied the possibility of Hinamizawa Syndrome or something like it from ever showing up.

Answer arc titles
  • Episode 5: Curse End of the Golden Witch
  • Episode 6: Revelation Dawn of the Golden Witch
  • Episode 7: Wrath Requiem of the Golden Witch
  • Episode 8: Endgame Twilight of the Golden Witch

The shipwrecked person in the screnshots of Episode 5 is Natsuhi
She has apparently no contact with her original family and is totally loyal to the Ushiromiyas. Maybe they saved her life?
  • Interesting theory, but sadly it is Jossed. The shipwrecked lady is Erika Furudo, an Expy of Rika from Higurashi.
    • That is not to say that the content is Jossed, though.
      • (Respondent here.) That's true, but unless it's a separate incident, the shipwreck in question happened to Erika, not Natsuhi. Perhaps the Ushiromiyas did save Natsuhi, and perhaps Natsuhi was shipwrecked, but unless you can prove it wasn't Erika's shipwreck we were seeing, this WMG is Jossed.

Battler betrayed Asumu
Here's what we know: Battler committed some sort of sin six years ago that did not involve Beatrice. The big thing that we know happened six years ago was Asumu's death, and Battler leaving to live with his maternal grandparents. It's pretty likely that the sin had something to do with that incident. At the same time, we know that Asumu is not Battler's biological mother. Battler apparently did not know that until the fourth arc. Apparently.

Now, let me postulate this - what if he actually found out earlier? Like, say, six years ago? What if he found out that, as the theory goes, Kyrie is his actual mother? Somehow (Maybe through the scheming that Kyrie claims Asumu did), Battler was used as a pawn for Asumu to get to Rudolf? How? Maybe through blackmail to Kyrie? "Give me your son or I let Rudolf know that you ________." She would have to be quite the schemer to outsmart Kyrie, but let's assume for a moment that she did.

And let's say that Battler's relationship with her isn't all it's cracked up to be (I know that the whole leaving thing would imply otherwise, but I'll get to that). Maybe at that time, he did something he would later come to regret, such as giving someone some information that Asumu didn't want known, or even (it actually works better this way) killing Asumu himself. Then, it hits him what he's done. "Oh my god, I just killed my mother." Because even if they didn't have a good relationship, that sort of thing is still pretty traumatic.

Then, what's the next thing he thinks? "I can't let anyone know. I've got to get out of here." And so he uses Rudolf remarrying to Kyrie so quickly as an excuse and gets out the first chance he has to go live with his grandparents. Or maybe Rudolf finds out and stages the entire fight over his remarriage in order to get Battler out of there. Maybe he stages it like that himself because Battler is so traumatized over what happened that he's practically in a Convenient Coma. When he finally does get himself together, he has Trauma-Induced Amnesia and is raised with a new story of what happened that day. Which explains why he finds all of this so shocking and why he wipes himself out when he finds out.

Eh, this one might need something like Hinamizawa Syndrome in order to work, but it's a heck of a conspiracy theory!

  • (In regards to the Hinamizawa Syndrome statement only) Knox's 4th! It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard-to-understand scientific devices to be used!
    • Hinamizawa Syndrome is neither a drug nor a scientific device, but it will not be showing up again. This does not, however, rule out the possibility that Kyrie is a master of the Hannibal Lecture and set up the entire thing. However, Battler has not killed anyone. The closest he could have possibly managed (to the extent of our knowledge) is pushing Asumu past the Despair Event Horizon.
      • (Respondent here.) Whoa, back up. Where was it said that Asumu committed suicide? All we know is she died, and, according to a line by Kyrie, not at the hand of Kyrie herself.
      • (2nd respondent here.) Where was it said that she didn't? All we know is that Battler hasn't killed anyone, but until this WMG is Jossed, we do not know that he has not caused anyone's death. Fine distinctions and all that.
      • (Respondent here.) Hmph, plausible. I propose that Asumu died of natural causes, and was not killed by anyone's hand, be it Kyrie's, Rudolf's, Battler's, or her own!
      • (OP here) Kihihihihi, you've got to admit, it's certainly an interesting piece of information for Ryukishi to have... forgotten to elaborate thus far. And yeah, this theory's been Jossed in part for a while now. The Hinamizawa Syndrome line was really just me implying that the theory's farfetched, but let's wait and see where it goes. I'm still expecting there to be some sort of complication about her death we haven't heard about yet.

Kanon's real name is Kagu.
He keeps on saying "boku wa kagu des", meaning "I am just furniture" or I am Kagu. Others think that he has a furniture complex, but he's actually correcting them when they call his name.
  • EP6 confirms that his real name is "Yoshiya".
  • But wouldn't it make his name Kagon? XD
    • Probably, probably not. Who knows?

Beatrice is the seagulls
And just like in The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening, Meta-Battler will wake up after a crazy dream, hear the cries of the seagulls... Only to dismiss it as nothing.
  • Who would play the Wind Fish that soars over Link's head at the end?

We can't trust the red or gold.
I'm surprised nobody's brought this up yet. Consider this: I can grab a piece of paper and say "Anything written on this paper is true." then write "I am a Chinese rebel." When somebody points out that I'm lying, I can write "Anything written on this paper is true." But that doesn't make it so. This came to me when Battler accused Beatrice of lying in the red and she used the red to state "Everything stated in red is true." Now some people might maintain that Ronove and others use and insist on the legitimacy of the red. Well getting back to the paper scenario, I could quite easily get a bunch of my friends to act out what I write on the paper and insist that it works. So with everyone convinced the thing works and Beatrice (possibly the only one who knows it's all bull) gone, nobody wants to risk lying with it because they're afraid of vanishing in a poof of logic. It's like selling your soul to the devil just to see if you'll go to hell, even if the writers of the Bible lied... do you really want to take the chance?
  • Except you explicitly can't say untrue things in red. Anyone who tried to force a red statement with an untrue statement choked before they finished. So it doesn't work like that.
    • There's a couple reasons we know that the red truth is telling the truth. Episode 5 ultimately shows that Beatrice wants Battler to solve the mystery so there's no reason to lie and make up random things. Furthermore, the author has also stated in interviews that it is possible to solve the mystery after Episode 4, something which would frankly be completely impossible without them due to the large number of fake scenes.

Genji is Kinzo's Beatrice
As we all know and love, Ronove is Ambiguously Gay, to the point where he bleeds freaking rose pedals

Word of God has stated repeatedly that looking at the game through just the mystery angle will not allow you to solve it, suggesting that even the scenes completely laden with fantasy have some important hint, be it evidence or characterization. One of the strongest elements of Ronove's characterization is the absurd amount of Ho Yay and loyalty he has for Battler, who is much like a younger, less crazy-as-a-fox Kinzo.

In EP4, it's said that Genji is a sort of vessel for Ronove in the real world.This means that Genji and Ronove should share some of their major traits.If Ronove is a mirror of Genji, then Genji should be gay and attracted to someone similar to Battler, such as Kinzo.

This train of logic suggests that the reason that Genji is so loyal to the Ushiromiya family is that he's madly in love with Kinzo.

If we take this a step further (And sprinkle crack lightly) we can note that Kinzo is a big freaking Misogynist that thinks the only use women have at all is making babies and serving men. He couldn't truly love a woman even if he wanted to. He doesn't respect them. Without love, there is no magic.

But Genji appeared in his life. Genji served him quietly, respectfully, and was a man who was proud to serve. Kinzo saw not just a servant, but a servant and a friend. Someone who would be there for him. Someone who wouldn't tell anyone if they did anything questionable. Someone who loved him in the same sinful way. Someone who would wear a Beatrice dress and wig while taking it from behind.

Genji is Kinzo's Beatrice.

  • So then by extension, Genji gave Kinzo the original gold?
    • Potentially, but just as it's been practically confirmed the existance of more than one Beatrice(i.e. the 'Beatrice' that Rosa met as a child), it's more likely that Genji was the Beatrice that came after that, the Final Beatrice. Well, I guess ANGE is the Final Beatrice in the meta-world sense, but in the mystery-world sense Genji is.
  • To further this theory, I'd like to add that Genji explicitly states in EP 1 that the person in Beatrice's portrait looks strikingly alike to his grandmother, but only with blonde hair instead of black.

Beatrice is related to the Ushiromiya family, and is the daughter of Chiyo and Kinzo
When Kinzo made a deal with Beatrice the witch, Beato wasn't in existence at the time. Virgilia appeared before Kinzo disguised with the appearance of Beato. The reason? Virgilia was really Chiyo and at the time was in love with Kinzo. Since Chiyo looked a lot like Virgilia when she was younger, she did not want it revealed to Kinzo that she was really a witch. Therefore, she used the appearance of her future daughter in her witch appearance to hide it.

Kinzo was very interested in the legends of witches, and Chiyo, secretly being one herself, shared this same interest with him. However, Virgilia's human appearance was that of a servant, the Ushiromiya family looked down upon such relationships. Their relationship was covered well, however, one day Chiyo ended up being pregnant. Kinzo then arranged another hidden mansion to be built with his wealth. When the Ushiromiya family came for visits, Chiyo remained in the mansion, under the guise that Kinzo let his servant take a vacation somewhere off the island for a year.

Chiyo then had a baby girl. The both of them decided to name her "Beatrice" after the Golden Witch that gave Kinzo his wealth. Later on, it is somehow revealed that Kinzo had such an affair with a servant. The other children of Kinzo reject Beatrice to be a part of the Ushiromiya family, and thus she is confinded to the other mansion on the island (at least during family meetings) where Chiyo had stayed when she was pregnant.

Beatrice was very sad and lonely. All she wanted in life was to have a family, go to a school like the other children did, and make friends. Taking after her parents, she became very interested in magic. She began believing that it really existed, and thus Virgilia (the current Beatrice at the time) appeared before her. Then Beatrice became Beatrice the Golden Witch. However, the human Beatrice and the witch Beatrice were different in appearance, which is why Kinzo does not recognize Beatrice in the portrait to be the same person.

With her new powers, she summoned up furniture that would play with her and she was happy for awhile. However, when she became a teen, her joy slowly faded. She realized that furniture would do anything she wanted to do, but they weren't anything like a real friend. If anything, it was like "imaginary" friends that only existed in your world and no one else's. She then lost interest in magic until she became an adult.

During her time as a young adult, she was still confined to the second mansion during visits. The adults told the younger members (which at this time was Eva, Rosa, Kruass, Rudolf) when they were little that a "witch" lived in the forest so they would not venture off and discover their other sibling. However, on one visit, Rosa had discovered the mansion as a teen.

She then met Beatrice, and it was unknown to Rosa but known to Beatrice that they were siblings. Rosa without malicious intent, had accidentally killed Beatrice (which was her falling off the cliff). Rosa was then mentally scarred from that day on. She tried to "forget" the accident, and replaced the image of the human Beatrice she killed with the witch's appearance, thus making it to where she recalls the incident, Beatrice is seen as the "witch in the forest".

Rosa's trauma has led her to become neglectful and abusive to Maria. I theorize that she lost her previous job, she had to resort to becoming a prostitute. She would then face more abuse by her "pimp" and clients. She hid it under the guise that she was on "business trips" when she was gone for days because she didn't want Maria to know how exactly she made money.

But isn't the Ushiromiya family wealthy? If you recall, Kinzo had stated that all this children failed him because he wanted them to make their own wealth, not leech off of his wealth. Therefore, it is believed that Kinzo was very stingy to sharing his money with his family.

Rosa truly wanted the best for Maria. However, after losing her previous job, which is assumedly an office job of some sorts, the "bad witch that took over mommy" started to appear. Maria, being neglected her mom's love and attention and due to bullying at school had left her to become very childish. Maria would throw tantrums and have several imaginary friends, namely Sakutaro. The very child-like, almost "sheltered" Maria distinctly reminded Rosa of Beatrice, which reminded her of the manslaughter she commited. This is why when Maria resorts to child-like tatics (having Sakutaro "speak" for her, Going "uuu!" all the time), Rosa flips out and starts hitting her to try to make her stop.

All this time as her human appearance, Chiyo was infuriated with the Ushiromiya family on the fact that they didn't even acknowledge her daughter. After all, it was not Beatrice's fault she was born, and she shouldn't have been treated like how she was. Chiyo, switching to her witch form, Virgilia, appeared before Beatrice. She promised to revive Beatrice, however she must remain a witch. It is unknown to Beatrice that Virgilia is technically her mother, but she agrees to follow the condition, based on the fact that in her human appearance, she was rejected, but in her witch appearance, she can take revenge upon the family that rejected her, and she would be both feared and respected by them. Virgilia chooses to make her agree to this condition because she knows that if Beatrice remains as a human, she would return to the gullible, stupid Beatrice, who would continue to be rejected by her family.

When it comes close to Kinzo's death, Beatrice must be the one to carry out the witch's epitaph since she is the new Golden Witch. This is the main reason why Beatrice has become so cold towards the family and kills them in the harshest ways she can think of, excluding Maria. To Beatrice, Maria reminds her of her when she was younger, so surprisingly feels sorry for Maria.

Maria, like her, was rejected the love of a parent (Rosa for Maria, and Kinzo for Beatrice). The both of them were loners and relied on furniture to keep them company. Maria also tends to show high respect for Beatrice, despite Beatrice violently killing her family members. When it comes to the epitaph, it would appear Maria is usually one of the last ones to die, and when she dies, Beatrice tries to make it painless (such as strangling her).

This is why Beatrice takes Maria under her wing like a mother figure. Beatrice didn't have any other friends other than furniture when she was little, so she hopes Maria will be happy with an actual human for a friend. However, Beatrice had to lie to Maria about Sakutaro. The reason she lied is because if she revived Sakutaro, she knew Maria would become attached to furniture, and then learn that furniture was nothing more that figments of imagination in the future. Beatrice then made up the story that Sakutaro could not be revived because Rosa rejected him. Thus, this is why Ange was easily able to do it and Beatrice's lie was seen as if Beatrice was a really weak witch.

Like Maria as well, Beatrice hates Rosa. She believes that Rosa was always hateful, and that Rosa purposely killed her when she was a human, simply because she thought Rosa knew they were related and that Rosa hated her like Kinzo.

Beatrice thus became nothing more than a killing machine, finding creative ways to use her magic to take revenge on this family. Even though many situations revealed it was obvious that magic caused the murders, Battler refused to believe it, making her interested in him. Perhaps the reason she insisted on this game was to get in touch with the relative she never knew.

This is the reason why I believe she truly felt sorry when Battler got angry and left the game. She really wanted to play a game with her relative, even if the game included her twisted humor. It is then in my belief at the signing, the Beatrice there was not the true Beatrice, but Virgilia in disguise, or perhaps furniture disguised as Beatrice. Virgilia, unlike Beatrice, does not want to show ANY mercy for the Ushiromiya, because the simple fact that she got involved as Chiyo was what caused so much pain to her daughter. Virgilia didn't want to go behind her daughter's back, but in order to get revenge on the family, she had to use whatever means as possible to get Battler to accept that Beatrice is a witch.

  • Knox's 10th. It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues.
    • Furthermore, doesn't Virgilia also show up at the contract signing, along with Beato?

Kinzo died far earlier then we've been led to believe.
The only time Kinzo has been confirmed to be alive in red was in 1967. I propose he died shortly after Rosa's Beatrice died. The reason no one would mistake someone else for Kinzo is because they already know he's dead, or they've never actually met him. All of the adults and servents (besides Gohda) have been covering his death for Reason X. The subplots that rely on some of the adults believing Kinzo is alive are completly made up by Beato and Lambda in order to troll Battler.
  • Jossed by EP5. It's stated in the story that Kinzo died in 1985, just before that year's family conference. Some time before the October 4, 1986 of EP5, it is mentioned that Krauss and Natsuhi were unsuccessful in completely fooling the relatives, as the other siblings plus Kyrie got suspicious concerning Kinzo's absence from the conference, as he was never seen, though the servants and Natsuhi were all saying "he was just here" or "he's in his study, but he's in a bad mood", the latter is used to play on the siblings' knowledge of Kinzo's temper, and so is used to deter them from going to the study to verify Kinzo's presence. That's why each arc after EP1 had the siblings demanding to see him. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The siblings weren't going to let them "fool me twice".
    • My argument states that all of those scenes are false. Knox's 9th. It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard.
      • (Respondent here.) Knox's 8th! It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented! If you would say in Red that the time of those scenes were falsified by the application of Knox's 9th, then I will have you provide evidence to support your theory that those scenes occurred earlier than they were said to!
      • Very well. Beato stated in red that, Kinzo died instantly. Beato's definition of instant death requires the victim to be murdered. Therefore, Kinzo was murdered. In the scence where Nanjo pronounces Kinzo dead there is no evidence that Kinzo was murdered. Therefore, that scence is false. Hold on...* eyes widen* ...I resign.

Kinzo's mistress, Beatrice I...
...was secretly a practitioner of the occult, herself. She sold her soul to Beatrice the Golden, and then claimed to be her human form because:
  • Her deal had been for the ten tons of gold, which she gave to Kinzo to manipulate his allegiance and secure a position as adviser of the Ushiromiya family.
  • Her deal had been to get her close to Kinzo, whom she loved. Afraid she would lose his favor to the witch proprietor, she used it as a ruse to keep him faithful.
Because her ruse led to her being Kinzo's adviser and lover, both Kinzo's resulting empire and their child could be taken as Beatrice the Golden's interest. When Beatrice I died in childbirth:
  • It was a ritual initiated by either herself or Kinzo to give her a new body (Beatrice I may have been aware of the extents of the interest, and intended to keep herself alive to avoid paying).
    • The ritual worked, but Beatrice was reincarnated without her memories.
    • Kinzo flubbed the ritual, bringing Beatrice the Golden into the child's body but severely weakening her in the process.
    • The ritual failed, but Kinzo still believed Beatrice II had the soul of Beatrice I.
But it was part of a gambit by Beatrice the Golden to obtain her full payment and a chance at revival.
  • When Beatrice II fell off the cliff and died, Beatrice the Golden claimed her form and used it to initiate the sacrifices.
    • Beatrice's "good" parts aren't just trolling - it's the soul of Beatrice I/II, who is either unaware of her predicament or simply not strong enough to fight back.
  • Kinzo tried bringing Beatrice back himself. However, due to his madness, poor grasp of magic, and believing Beatrice I/II and Beatrice the Golden to be the same, he flubbed the revival ritual.
    • He brought back Beatrice's body, but with the soul of Beatrice the Golden inside.
    • He brought back the vengeful soul of Beatrice I/II, who gave Beatrice the Golden use of her form to drag Kinzo and his family down with her.
    • He brought back the unwitting soul of Beatrice II, and she either believes herself to be Beatrice the Golden, or is being possessed by her.
      • Even if we assume magic is real, this is Jossed by Episode 3. And even moreso by Episode 7

Bernkastel's equivalent of Beatrice's Stakes of Purgatory are the Higurashi True Companions
Because something tells me we haven't seen the last of them. Also, with Hanyuu, who is implied to be a Creator, they could bring them from any given world. Their uniform would be Angel Mort's waitress outfit....yes, even Keiichi.
  • That would indeed make for a great final battle. There's actually some fanart of Keiichi being summoned.
  • (Link please?) This theory is helped by the fact that if you exclude Rika, there are seven children in Higurashi: Keiichi, Rena, Mion, Shion, Satoko, Hanyuu, and Satoshi. Alternatively, you could have Akasaka instead of Satoshi.
  • If you need to exclude someone, exclude Hanyuu instead of Satoshi, she's not even really here until the last chapter... But I don't see why Hanyuu would be a Creator witch. IF she is a witch, we know that she is a Voyager, like 34 or Bern. And in Lambda's diary, it is said that witches are a link between gods (hellooo Hanyuu?) and humans, so I don't see the point about making Hanyuu a witch...
  • Jossed: There is no real Stakes equivalent, but Bernkastel doesn't need one.
Battler's overlooking something completely obvious in the examination of the cases
The witches have not defined in red what constitutes a "person". This creates a loophole in which "furniture" can be left out of the statement "There are no more than 17 people on Rokkenjima." and thus making a huge gap in which 18th Person X can appear.
  • Hell, even if they define "person" in red, it wouldn't matter if red text only has to be true for one interpretation. And it matters even less if you can change interpretations on a statement-by-statement basis.
  • The statement, "6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!", proves that furniture count as people. Furthermore, even if the definition of person can be changed, in order for Battler to argue that they aren't counted among the 17 he'd have to acknowledge that furniture are fundamentally different from people. Thus, severly weakening his argument.
  • COUNTERPOINT! Shannon and Kannon are only able to become human through Love. Only in games where Kannon acknowledges feelings towards Jessica does he qualify as a Person. Ronove does not feel love. Ronove does not count as a Person. Furniture ARE inherently different from people as stated in Episodes 1 through 4.
    • Ronove counted as a person in episode 3. In order to count as people, furniture must feel love. Therefore, in episode 3, Ronove felt love. Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented. Therefore, if you would claim that love makes furniture people you must present evidence that Ronove loved someone.
      • A WMG below suggests Kinzo. See "Genji is Kinzo's Beatrice".
      • Effective. I will strengthen this theory further: Shannon and Kanon are not the only servants from the Fukuin house. Furthermore, there is no evidence to suggest that the others aren't furniture as well. Therefore, even in an episode where Kanon, Shannon, and Genji all count as people, it is possible for the number of people to be misleading because the servants who we are told aren't on the island don't count as people and thus could be on the island without effecting the number.
      • Furniture are human. It's just a metaphor taken to a literal
      • Literal as in they get a super-awesome energy sword attached to their writing arms, or are able to form barriers to defend against magical attacks? In that case, take away the servitude thing and Kanon and Shannon are better off as furniture. Maybe they can become Jessica's and George's furniture, respectively.
  • Jossed: Furniture counts as people, as shown in episode 7. Of course, alternate personalities are an entirely different matter...

The deaths are caused by 'Rokkenjima syndrome'
A mysterious disease that causes people to hallucinate they are being attacked by witches. And then explode.
  • Maybe seeing the golden butterflies is akin to hearing footsteps in Higurashi.
  • There are no more than 17 people on the island, but there are 40 scientists the next island over with typhoon-penetrating surface-to-surface missiles loaded with BERSERKER GAS!
    • Wait, wasn't there a disease thingy in Cowboy Bebop which causes people to see golden butterflies, hallucinate, and then die?
    • Huh, What?
extent in the Magical Perspective.
  • Jossed by Lambdadelta (anybody care to fill in the episode?)

Kumasawa is the original Beatrice
The Beatrice Kinzo loved but couldn't marry. Mother to Rosa's Beatrice. Much, much smarter than she lets on.
  • So then, who's Virgilia?
    • Virgilia -> Predecessor Beatrice -> Kinzo's Beatrice. Beato -> Successor Beatrice -> Rosa's Beatrice.
  • Jossed. The identity of the original Beatrice is given in episode 7.

Sometimes I think it was my twin that drowned; sometimes I think it was me
Rosa met a living Beatrice when she was a child. One died. One lived. Rosa's body broke on the rocks. Beatrice escaped out into the endless world. They were most likely half-sisters; it's not inconceivable that one estranged sibling could pass for another. Maria, if only you knew how near Beatrice is to you even now...Now I'm just becoming paranoid. Unless that's what they want me to think?
  • You are not taking the age gap into account. Rosa was a little girl, while Beatrice was well into her teen years.
    • I think Beatrice's appearance was misleading in that scene. Rosa narrated that she assumed she and Beatrice were the same age, and only later realised Beatrice was 'older than she looked'. And of course the older they get, the less an age gap mattersnote .
  • Jossed as of episode 7.

Rosa's little turns...
...aren't her fault. She just couldn't say no to that all expenses paid bed-and-breakfast holiday in the picturesque town of Hinamizawa. So sorry...
  • Or it's Lambdadelta.
  • Lambdadelta josses this theory (please fill in episode number here).

The next chapter is going to be 'Turn of the Battler'
Where Battler uses his meta-capacity to reconstruct the murders in an uber-clinical CSI fashion, and Beatrice has her turn to express moral outrage. "How could you be heartless? Your own could you suspect your own mother like that, Battler? You're a monster! A monster!"
  • Jossed

Beatrice (as in the Beatrice who supposedly gave Kinzo the gold) never existed
It's a popular Epileptic Tree of The Divine Comedy that Dante's Beatrice never existed: a female muse and a fashionably tragic love life were almost required for a poet at the time, and so Dante Alighieri invented Beatrice from whole cloth to give himself something to emote about. Is Kinzo enough of a moody Europhile git to try the same thing? Maybe! There's something very ironic about killing in the name of a woman that never lived.
  • All of you who thought: 'That can't be true! The Divine Comedy is too beautiful for Beatrice not to be real!' You're all officially anti-Mystery. :)
  • Then how did Kinzo get the gold? How do you explain his relationship with the Beatrice in Kuwadorian?
  • Utterly jossed as of episode 7.

Jessica is Beatrice
I have been kicking around the theory that Beatrice is in fact a hidden personality of Jessica, born from her own frustration at her position, Kinzo's madness, and perhaps Battler's percieved abandonment of her. I'm going to try and put my complete theory down in this thread, as I've only posted bits and pieces of it in various threads.

First of all. This theory assumes the information from Episode 3 concerning Beatrice is correct. Kinzo met her years before, and after borrowing the gold, fell in love with her. Kinzo, undeterred when she rejected him, simply took her by force, building a hidden mansion on the island he bought and imprisoning her there. Unable to escape, she eventually commited suicide.

However, she had a child, or Kinzo found an infant that bore a high enough resemblance, and this child was kept on in the hidden mansion for her entire life, looked after by Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo checking up on occasion. Years later, Rosa stumbles across the hidden mansion, and meets Beatrice II who has been desiring to leave and see the outside world. She leads that Beatrice out, only for her to fall from a cliff and die on the rocks below.

Again, she may have been pregnant, or another child was acquired. The timing here is important. Battler and Jessica were both born in 1967 roughly, since they are both 18 in 1985. In '67 Krauss and Natsuhi had been trying to conceive unsuccessfully for more than a decade. Since Kuwadorian wasn't used after Beatrice II died accidentally, Kinzo must have wanted to keep the newly born Beatrice someplace she could be kept under observation and not so isolated. So, he gave the child to Krauss and Natsuhi, sternly ordering them to look after her as their own. He may have even told them not to worry about proper succession, as she carried his blood. This might be why Krauss and Natsuhi are somewhat distant from their daughter.

Battler is born at roughly the same time, Rudolf's son, though not to Asumu. Asumu probably miscarried instead of Kyrie, and the Ushiromiyas forced Kyrie to turn over her child to Rudolph and Asumu. As the miscarried child was also going to be named Battler, that name got passed on to Kyrie's firstborn (this is also why Battler and Ange look so alike). It has also been theorized that Jessica is actually Rudolf and Asumu's daughter, and was given over to Krauss for reasons unknown. Then Battler was taken from Kyrie, and she may have been led to believe her child died.

As time passes, Kinzo's mind slips further into madness. Jessica is raised normally, though as she gets older Kinzo begins paying more and more attention to her, convinced she is yet another Beatrice. When Jessica and Battler are about 12, Battler says something to Jessica that leaves a deep impression on her, even if he thought little of it. He might have bragged that he'd come charging to the rescue if she were ever in trouble, or he'd help her escape from her oppressive family, something along those lines.

Shortly after, Asumu dies. Rudolf remarries quickly, to Kyrie, who is pregnant with Ange. Battler can't accept this turn of events, and leaves the family to live with Asumu's parents.

Kinzo's madness worsens. Jessica feels like Battler abandoned her. Kinzo starts visiting Jessica more often, telling her about the previous Beatrices, and revealing many of his secrets to her. At some point, Kinzo makes a move on Jessica. Given Kinzo's personality, he's not likely to ask. Also recall what Beatrice said about Kinzo's interests... This may have happened more than once. At some point, Jessica's mind, unable to accept what was happening to her and despairing over Battler, who never came back, broke down and a new persona was formed, taking the name of Beatrice.

Sometime before the family conference in 1985, Kinzo dies. Jessica may have killed him, perhaps trying to resist him. Krauss might have done it as well if he found out what was going on with all of Jessica's visits to his room (remember, like Rudolf told Kyrie once, even though he brags and blusters, Krauss can become the most reliable of the siblings when the chips are down. If he found out Kinzo was raping his daughter, I don't think Kinzo would be around much longer.). Either way, it was necessary to conceal Kinzo's death, in order to protect his family and also prevent the distribution of the inheritance. In all likelihood, all of the negative memories and emotions Jessica had experienced got shoved onto Beatrice and locked away.

A few more years pass. Beatrice spends most of the time dormant, though she does come forward to speak to Shannon, sadistically urging her forward deeper into a relationship with George, which she thinks is bound to fail. She even tells Kanon as much when he catches her before she regresses after one of her meetings with Shannon. Which makes the relationship Jessica wants to make with him rather...awkward, since he's afraid this is another cruel joke of Beato's. George and Shannon's relationship seems to be poised to succeed despite all odds, much to Jessica and Beato's envy.

Then word comes to Rokkenjima: Battler is coming back into the family. Beatrice awakens, and begins forming a plan to take revenge on Battler for forgetting his promise to her.

Jessica is in the perfect position to set the ball rolling. From her father, she knows that all the siblings are in a precarious position financially. The tensions regarding the succession of the headship are getting high, especially with the rumor being spread among the siblings that whoever solves Kinzo's riddle will become the next head. Confirming this is enough to get people all hot and bothered.

Now throw in some wild cards. Through Kinzo, Jessica knows where the gold is. She knows the servants, probably better than her parents. She knows where Kinzo keeps Beatrice's old clothes. She knows about the emergency funds Kinzo set up, and where he kept all the keys. She can get out from her parents supervision for days at a time under the pretense of bad weather. She knows the ins and outs of both mansions. And don't forget, she knows Maria will believe just about anything if you say you are a witch.

From here, events depend upon the exact conditions of the game. She might carry out some of the killings herself, or it might not even be neccessary. She could be the person putting the magic circles and whatnot around the house, since she and Nanjo are the likeliest to know how to make proper symbols (and she knows Maria can read them).

In the case of Episode 2, after she or her accomplice killed all the parents but Rosa, Kanon may have confronted her while she was alone with him. He stabbed her, she retaliated, and wound up killing him. She moved the body out of her room and hid it someplace, then locked herself back into her room, and later died.

Though, could she have been faking? I remember Beato saying Kanon was dead with the red, but was Jessica's death confirmed in the way? I don't recall as much, but if she knew where Kanon's body was, she could have dressed in his bloody clothes and a wig to fool the servants, however briefly, while she waited for a chance to attack them.

Not much red was used in Ep 4, and none regarding Jessica really. She could have worn Beatrice's clothes and greeted Battler from the balcony. Despite Battler's certainty that it was 'Beatrice', his outlook was warped after the converation with Kyrie. Plus, I don't know if it was a translation error or not: she was described as coming out of the second floor balcony. But Kinzo's room is on the THIRD floor, right? Jessica's is on the second floor if I recall correctly though...Either way, Battler was looking up at her from 10-20 feet or so, in the dark, while it was raining hard. I'm not going to begrudge him for fooling himself into believing it.

So anyway, that is my theory. There are holes in it, and plenty of things are still not explained. I'm not even touching who the 'Kinzo' that appeared in Ep 4 was. But it covers alot pretty well I think.

  • That is horrible and gothic and nasty and I love it and find it painfully plausible.
  • In episode 3 at least, it's stated in red that "Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder."
  • But would Beatrice count anything done by Jessatrice as something Jessica did, or not? No wonder she's confused...
  • I love this theory. I'm trying to figure out a way to update it through five, what with Jessica being one of the first murders there. In that one, Battler found the gold and became the new head, it possible that perhaps in a fit over how a wrench had been thrown into all of her plans, Jessatrice (Beatrice as Jessica's split personality, as opposed to Beato and former Beatrices) decides to try to frame Battler? I'm not sure if it's stated in red that the murders took place in the cousins' room or whether the corpses were moved there later, but...let's posit for a moment that most of the murders occurred somewhere else and Jessatrice was in the process of moving them up into their room while Battler was sleeping. Then, maybe Rosa comes in to check on Maria and sees what happened. Jessatrice flips and kills her, and then, in a panic, commits suicide. Kumasawa and...I forget which is the other servant to die. Genji, I think? Anyway, Jessatrice hadn't finished moving them up yet by the time she killed herself, so they're somewhere else. That doesn't clear up why Hideyoshi dies later or why Battler didn't wake up with the noise that would have probably occurred during Rosa popping in, but, well, it's a start. Please correct me - I'm certain I'm missing some facts on this.
  • I also suspect Jessica to be Beatrice, mainly due to the scorpion charm she gave to Natsuhi, and her knowing about George's death in Episode 4 and all. Also the talk about another self in Episode 2. You have put quite a back story there for this. The things I'm unsure of are those whom Battler's sin involves, as in Episode 4 Beatrice said the sin isn't between Battler and Beatrice. If Jessica's split personality counts to this, I'd suspect it would be Shannon (and Kanon if they indeed are the same person). As the mystery should be able to be solved with the Question arcs, the only reason I could think for this would be Battler's Engrish speeches, and he said he had some kind of crush on Shannon. The sentence of Battler's sin not being between Battler and Beatrice could also be explained with the split personality forming only after Battler committed the sin, but that seems kinda pushing it. Clearly she's holding a grudge about it, and it's so bad she's prepared to kill herself over it.
  • It could be that this is somewhere else on this hefty WMG list, but I think this theory meshes rather well with the Shkanon theory. I like to think that if Jessica and Beatrice being the same is due to her being broken, it's entirely possible that Shannon knew this, and Kanon spawned out of pity for this situation. It would also explain why Shannon and Kanon take orders from Beatrice. She's someone they would know, and also one of the Ushiromiya family. At the same time, it would explain those friendly visits Shannon has with Beatrice. Either we go the superstition route, or Shannon knows it's Jessica and they're already close anyways. Just throwing that one out with no idea how relevant/irrelevant it is. Pretty much just started trying to make any manner of theories after EP6 to cope with the wait for the next Episode and am running off pure recollection. So feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.
  • Can be considered jossed as of episode 7, unless you assume that Jessica and Shannon and probably Kanon are the same person.

Meta-Battler isn't Battler.
In fact, Battler isn't Battler either.

A short time before the start of the story, Rudolf contacts his illegitimate son by Kyrie (call him Our Battler) to impersonate his vanished half-brother (call him Other Battlernote ) at the family meeting. Male heirs are a big deal in Kinzo's eyes: it could be the deciding factor in the inheritance fight. In return, Rudolf will legally recognise him as 'Ushiromiya Battler'. It takes a few months of coaching, but while several express incredulity at Battler's changes, nobody calls their bluff.

Then the murders happen. The purpose of the murders is to drive Battler to confessing his sin of six years ago. The real Battler would have leapt up and cried: 'Yes! I confess, I did it!' Our Battler just sits there in a passive lump thinking 'Why am I here? These people are insane!'

But... Meta-Battler doesn't know any of this. The metaworld characters are impressions of realworld people or objects. He isn't 'really' Battler - he's somebody's impression of Battler! Complete with an inferred history which would have proved impervious to anything but the red text. (Take it a bit further and it can also explain why Meta-Battler is a supercool action lawyer, and Our Battler is almost comatose).

It's no coincidence Meta-Battler vanishes in a puff of logic in the same scene that Beatrice realises Our Battler is unable to remember his sin. As Sakutaro demonstrated, a metacharacter 'dies' when their creator can't sustain belief in them anymore.

  • Can be considered jossed as of episode 8. In the first mini-game, you can get Rudolf to say who Battler's mother is, and how that happened.

The mastermind isn't even on the island at all
Why bother coming up with a brilliant plan to eliminate the entire Ushiromiya clan at one shot and get all their money, and then ruin it by getting caught up in the bloodbath? Nahhh. Whoever the mastermind is, he or she is enjoying a nice drink and waiting for the whole mess to be over.
  • Knox's 1st! It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story! A person that was not first introduced in the first game cannot be named as the culprit!
    • But it was never explicitly stated in red or in gold that the events of Rokkenjima follow Knox's decalog. Knox's decalog has been mentioned many times in red, but those are merely self-affirming truths. No one has ever said in red "Knox's rules are in effect!", just "Your theory goes against Knox's rules!". Which is true, but meaningless if Knox's rules aren't in effect. The witches are clearly trolling us, and we have no proof that the Rokkenjima events follow Knox's rules.
      • (Respondent here.) Citing Knox's Decalogue is fair game until it is proven that the Decalogue doesn't apply to Beato's game.
      • In that case, Kawabata is the culprit.
      • (Respondent here.) Who?
      • The boat captain, apparently.
      • (Respondent here.) He is the boat captain. I just noticed it before posting this.
  • Jossed as of episode 7 at the latest, in particular taking into account that Ryukishi 07 has stated that Knox's Decalogue is mostly applicable.

Kinzo's running a secret cloning facility on Rokkenjima
He certainly has the money and the insane tenacity to do it, and it would explain the whole myth of 'furniture' if they really were artifical humans. Beatrice and Jessica could be sisters, one an imperfect copy given to Krauss and Natsuhi, and one raised to be Kinzo's perfect woman.
  • Can be considered Jossed: nothing like this ever comes up in the core arcs.

Battler never returned to Rokkenjima
Hold onto your hats, because things are going to get cracky.

Battler and Maria are practically joined at the hip. Try and count the number of scenes with Battler where Maria isn't already present 'playing by herself', or doesn't appear partway through. Note how in the only arc where Maria doesn't live to the end of the ritual, Battler retreats to his room in the guesthouse and the plot focus shifts to the adults and Meta-Battler. Note how many dynamic and plot-relevant interactions his cousins have with one another, and how quickly his role collapses into passive observation.

Battler Ushiromiya? More like Bat-Tyler Durden! Battler's objective testimony is actually Maria's testimony! Battler is a figment of her imagination, a big-brother image she invented to protect her after the witch image turned sinister.

  • By this, do we assume Ange was in on it, or that Battler was an Imaginary Friend that Maria and Ange shared? You need to take her 1998 story into account.
    • Easy. Battler Ushiromiya is a real person, but the person on the island is a joint Imaginary Friend based on the real Battler.
      • (Respondent here.) Then where is the real Battler? Why isn't he on the island with the family? If Meta-Battler (now the Endless Sorcerer) is Maria, then who is MARIA, Witch Of Origins? Don't get me wrong, your "Joint Imaginary Friend" theory has some ground, but, due to multiple scenes, a number of which are in EP 5, having the family interacting with Battler despite Maria being absent, said theory would have to extend beyond Maria and Ange and have the whole family in on it.
      • (2nd respondent.) He's dead. Maria refused to let go, and developed a Split Personality based on her memories of Battler, which we will call Battler-Prime, or B'. Meta-Battler is B', who shares a body with Maria, who is MARIA (each personality having its own magical form). B' sometimes "takes over" and sometimes manifests as an Imaginary Friend, and when B' is in control the family recognizes that and acts accordingly. Maria's "death" was actually "Maria" witnessing something traumatic enough to drive her catatonic, so B' takes over when he can.
  • Jossed: It is very clear as of episode 8 that he was on Rokkenjima during the 1986 family conference. The Maria theory does not hold because Battler survives (barely).

George and Shannon aren't lovers
It may sound strange to question this premise, but consider that all of their romantic narration is marked by a lack of credibility, given that it happens outside Battler's narration and is rendered specious by the presence of magic and witches. Furthermore, ask yourselves the following question; why have George and Shannon never been the victims of the second twilight, in spite of being the most obvious pair of victims for it? Keep in mind that whether you're anti-fantasy or anti-mystery, the killer is attempting to follow the epitaph to make the murders (appear) occult and the fact that the most obvious choice has been overlooked 4 times in a row seems strange.
  • Has George ever admitted it directly to Battler? I know that Jessica has speculated about it to him, but I'm not sure whether he's actually said it. But if so, I wonder why George inquired about the ring in the first arc...
    • I don't believe he has; most of what Battler knows of their relationship is either an implied conclusion or conjecture. And with regards to George's inquiry of the ring, that can also be explained if we examine the scene closely - recall that no one apart from Hideyoshi and Kanon actually see "Shannon's" corpse in the shed and that the majority of the dialogue in the scene was that poignantly melodramatic exchange between Hideyoshi, George and Eva. In other words, Shannon was in collusion with the three of them to fake her death as part of an elaborate ruse. The fact that her corpse was identified allows her to be a loophole in the red regarding the first twilight of Episode 4.
      • But in order to do that, all would have had to know that those murders were going to take place, right? And the murderer would have had to know to only kill five people instead of six. And so that makes it likely that one of them was the murderer that time.
      • You're forgetting Kinzo has already been long dead. This makes it far easier for someone in the original twilight to fake their death. Plus, if the theory about Kanon being Shannon is true, then that would easily keep George's innocence while exposing Hideyoshi and Eva as accomplices, who were murdered shortly afterwards to hide their tracks. Was it ever said in red that the chain was still on the door when they were murdered?
      • ".......That's right, it was me. .......Last night, I proposed to her. That was when I gave her the ring. .....I told her that tomorrow, she should put it on whatever finger she wanted, as her answer. ...Haha, I sound so full of myself. ... So I handed her the engagement ring, and then, was all over." -George, Legend of the Golden Witch
      • Is it in red? For all we know, she could be wearing a ring for some other reason.
      • The Red Truth rule had not been implemented when that occurred. The meta-world did not even exist yet at that point in time.
      • Are you sure about that? In ep 4 (at least the Witch Hunt translation) they mention the first twilight of the first episode and comenting on the murders there and if the victims were really dead or not since Beatrice hadn't used her red truth there (it's not said but probably as you said because it wasnät implimented there). This seems to indicate that the Metaworld actually existed in the first arc.
  • Jossed. The relationship between George and Shannon, as well as Jessica and Kanon and, of course, Battler/Beatrice is a major theme of episode 6.

Maria doesn't have a father - she Has Two Mommies, Rosa and Beatrice
Rosa didn't want to marry and give up the family name, but she wanted a child. Either with or without her knowledge Beatrice heard this and gave her a child ala Star Wars and Anakin, and Rosa was too freaked out by the sudden pregnancy to try to get help from anyone. She thought this was a blessing until Maria started acting strangely, so Maria is simultaneously a blessing and a curse to Rosa. It also gives Beatrice a shoe-in in the family to have Maria there.
  • Jossed. No "has two mommys" ever comes up.

Prior to his sin, Battler was Beatrice's apprentice.
In other words, he was just like Maria once: not only did he faithfully believe in magic, he wanted to be a witch (or warlock, or madan), so he became Beatrice's apprentice. He trusted her completely, certain that he had nothing to fear - Beatrice would make everything better. Or help him make things better. Even as he grew older and was supposed to 'outgrow such silly superstitions', he still believed in Beatrice.

Then something horrible happened. Maybe Asumu grew ill and passed away, even though Battler pleaded with Beatrice to save her. Maybe his relationship with Asumu wasn't that great and he cursed her before her death. (This could've been accidental: maybe he heard his parents fighting and cursed the 'other woman', the one who wasn't his mother... and whoops!) Whatever the case, he took out his anger on Beatrice, blaming her for everything and declaring her an evil, heartless witch.

He may even have been the one who originally taught Maria that Beatrice was a good witch before having his falling out with Beato six years ago. He could even have gone on a rant in front of his impressionable cousin afterwards, disavowing Beatrice as evil and horrible and scarring poor little Maria's mind, skewing her pure-hearted belief in the Golden Witch towards a more old-school fairies mindset.

  • The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Battler Ushiromiya and Beatrice.
    • There's more than one Battler and more than one Beatrice. That statement could easily refer to original!Battler or Virgilia, the predecessor Beatrice.
    • Battler's sin was cursing Asumu, which, while not a sin between Battler and Beatrice, led directly to their falling-out.
      • (1st respondent here.) Knox's 8th! It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented! Show me evidence that Battler's sin was against Asumu, and that her death contributed to Battler denying Beato, and I will promote that Blue Truth to Red Truth
      • Battler's sin occurred the same year Asumu died/Rudolf married Kyrie/and Battler ran away from home to live with his maternal grandparents. I propose that this is sufficient evidence to prove the two are related!
  • Jossed as of episode 6 (I think). About those closed rooms, on the other hand...

Kinzo is Battler.
He was supposedly about Battler's age when he first met Beatrice, and "miraculously" brought the Ushiromiya Family Back from the Brink. What easier way to create a miracle than knowing everything in advance?!
  • I once thought this, too, but Kinzo has six toes on each foot, and as far as we know, Battler doesn't.
  • Dude could have fifty toes down there. Schroedinger's loafer.
  • Both became mad magicians after Beato died. Both made a new Beato and tried to turn her into the one they wanted. Both became the unexpected successor to their family fortune (Episode 5 anyway). Both have no real talent for magic and have insane amounts of magic resistance.
  • Jossed. No time travel here, except possibly in the meta-world.

The Gold represents Love (The Story will end when the entire Family can get along)
Higurashi is generally considered to be about atonement and, by extension, forgiveness. That loop ended when everyone was forgiven.

Umineko follows a similar pattern, but clearly has a different theme. That theme is likely love, therefore when the family starts loving each other, instead of bickering, the family will receive their good end. Thoughts?

  • Then, uh, I might be taking this too literally, but when Eva found the gold and promptly went psycho...?
  • Could be that I'm wrong because I haven't played the games and have less information then some, or perhaps she couldn't acknowledge the truth for some reason? I could also be wrong about what the gold represents but right about how the series ends, because I was basing the part about the gold on the first arc's epitaph, where it said that finding the gold would stop the collection of the 'interest' on Kinzo's loan.
  • Jossed, the gold is absolutely real.

The typhoon causes a landslide at the end of every game
This appears to happen in every game, and explains several mysteries:

In Episode 1, this is what kills the cousins in the end, and does so in a way that makes finding bodies extremely difficult.

In Episode 2, this is what Rosa and Maria are running from in the final scene. If you watch the entire banquet scene with this in mind (and assuming the Unreliable Narrator bases scenes on reality), it makes a lot of sense.

In Episode 3, Eva survives the landslide by being in the hidden mansion at the time (although this is only confirmed in Episode 4).

In Episode 4, this explains quite a few things, and is indeed strongly hinted at. The reason the police could find no evidence, and closed the case as an accident? Well, if the mansion and the surrounding areas were flattened by a huge landslide they would be unlikely to find any bodies, and thus no evidence of any homicides!

Again in Episode 4, when Ange travels to Rokkenjima, she could not reach the mansion due to what appeared to be a landslide. In-game this is said to have possibly occurred over the years since the original events occurred, but...

Finally in Episode 4 again, the "final challenge" put to Battler regarding who killed him in the end, despite no other humans being left? The landslide did it.

  • Then why is there a murder mystery at all (Wasn't the case referred to as the 'Rokkenjima Mass Murder Incident' or something of the sort)? Wouldn't the police chalk up all of the deaths to the landslide? After all, it would have had to be pretty obvious right after the fact if Ange could have noticed it twelve years after.
    • Probably because of the "note" in a bottle (stated to be more like a novel) that describes what happened at the island. The police probably declared it straight away as an accident, but the finding of the notes in the bottle (seen at the end of Episode 1, confirmed again in Episode 4) probably started a large amount of media speculation. Interestingly enough, Episode 4 mentions more than one, each totally different, and that the writer of the TIPS section in the visual novels is implied to be the writer of these notes...
    • It's not like ALL the bodies were lost in the landslide. They probably managed to find some, but not all. (It's said in the game, actually...) and while some could be damaged by the landslide, you could probably tell by the rest that there was a murder. (No, Kinzo was trying to make some burgers and burned himself by accident, cool story bro. Or maybe it was a burning landslide of fire? After all due to Devil's Proof we can't say there's no volcano somewhere in the garden!) And, damn, it would have to be one huge landslide to destroy the whole mansion. It's not like they were living under Mount Everest. Also, the unrecovered bodies usually die by the portrait or in the garden, suggesting there's something wrong with this specific area. I believe it's one of the best theories so far.
      • What's so far-fetched about it being a burger accident? Sims kill themselves while making burgers all the time! What if the entire adventure is just a Sims game that Maxis thought was too questionable to be released? Admit it, you didn't think of that possibility. Everything occurs on an island because until recently, you couldn't move sims off their property! All of the witches are friends who managed to get their hands on an unreleased copy! Meta-Battler is a glitch in the program! The entire series is just a giant commentary on the sadism of players of The Sims! I think I just cracked the code!
      • A landslide could destroy the entire mansion, if the mansion isn't under it but on top of it... Remember they have to go up stairs to get to the mansion. Enough digging underground to create the tunnel to Kuwadorian, plus 30 years of typhoons, plus a freeze-unfreeze cycle in winter, and the ground underneath loosens enough to send the whole mansion tumbling right into the sea.

  • (Possibly?) contradicted by Episode 6. In the TIPS at the end of EP 6, a "Rokkenjima Explosion Incident" is mentioned (in Human Erika Furudo's "dead" text).
    • Sure, explosion. That's what they tried to tell us last time.
  • Jossed as of episode 7. It was the bomb that did it.

At the end of EP 4, We have all been fooled by a simple play of words.
We all remember that epic red text.

"My name is Ushiromiya Battler. It was from Ushiromiya Asumu that Ushiromiya Battler was born. It was from Ushiromiya ...... ......nguh ............?! ......?!?! I am Ushiromiya Battler. It was from Ushiromiya Asumu that, ah, ngagh, ......nnnggghh......!!!"

"You are not Ushiromiya Asumu's son!"

Apparently, this Mind Screw fuel has spawned many theories, including Battler secretly being Kyrie's son. Nearly everyone believes that in fact there were originally two Battlers. Except me, who shall present the following theory:

It is true that Kyrie had a miscarriage. There was born only one Ushiromiya Battler - Asumu's son. However, Battler was not born from Asumu.

How come? We already know that Meta-Battler and Game-Board Battler aren't the same person. He actually pulls the same trick as Rika - splitting into a real-world and witch/meta self. Thus, he couldn't repeat it in red because it was adressed to the wrong person.

"It was from Ushiromiya Battler that BATTLER was born."

This should be the statement. So the truth can be THIS simple. Pukukukukuku...!

...unless it got Jossed/confirmed in EP 5 already, and i just didn't get as far in the game yet.

  • But didn't he manage to say in red in EP 4 that Ange was his sister? How did he do that, in that case?
    • But isn't she still his sister as long as they both are Rudolf's kids? Plus, we can go by the theory that she's his sister as long as he considers her one. Same goes for Asumu - he could say "Asumu is my mom" in red, because it's a different thing from "being born from her". There are actually things more dangerous for my theory, like Rudolf wanting to talk to Battler "about his birth" (?? I fail at moonspeak, so I may have gotten things wrong) in EP 5. Then again, the fact that Kyrie and Battler don't seem to know anything bugs me a lot.
  • Jossed in episode 8. Battler is, in fact, Kyrie's son.

Amakusa is the baby that Natsuhi wanted to adopt
Beato stated that it would have taken a miracle for the servant and the baby to have survived falling off the cliff. Who's to say Bernkastel didn't do her thing? We never get a confirmation on his age. Maybe he's 31 and is just older than he looks?
  • With the screenshots for EP6 revealing we're returning to 1998, and Juuza will be focused on at least a little bit, I am leaning closer and closer to this theory.
    • Read Amakusa's profile again. The man's gone through Special Forces training, time in the JSDF, time in the French Foreign Legion and has become so good at his job that he's become renowned as a specialist. Realistically, he would have to be in his late-twenties at the very least so thirty-one wouldn't be implausible.
    • Would just like to mention that the "Battler is Amakusa" theory could also tie in here, what with Battler's theory about the fifth arc.
  • Jossed as of episode 7. It was Yasu instead.

Battler will deny Bernkastel
In order to take the game back from the Voyager witches, Battler needs to take the fight directly to them. Fighting them on the gameboard isn't enough anymore, as he can only attack their pawn, Erika.

Here's what will happen: Battler and his furniture will fight against Bernkastel, Lambdadelta, Erika, and their furniture in the sea of kakera. At one point, Battler will question Bernkastel's credibility, which will then lead to an all out denial of her existence. Being a Voyager-level witch, this takes a tremendous amount of effort, more than enough to deny Beatrice, but eventually she is crippled by their arguments and in a terrible state. Just before the final blow is dealt, though, Lambdadelta steps in and cuts them a deal: Battler and crew stop denying Bernkastel's existence, and Lambdadelta will no longer allow her to interfere with the game, nor will she intervene in any way herself. This is eventually considered fair, and the board is restored before the final game is set up.

If nothing else, there needs to be a kakera fight at some point.

  • Can Battler do that? The one time he was in the sea of kakera, wasn't it due to Bernkastel's magic? Even if Battler could, how could Ronove, et al?
    • Well, he did read a book called "Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni". Maybe he'll remember that and could create a problem for Bern by saying Someone named Bernkastel is in a book of fiction called Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni! You just happened to read it and thought it'd be a great idea to dress up like her!. And that's just a furniture-level argument.
    • Didn't he slip into the sea of kakera again during EP 5 Tea Party? And he seemed to do it on his own. Also, Voyager witches obviously can bring others into the sea, so if Battler could drag himself there, he can as well take his crew with him. Plus, I don't think they need to leave the kakera to begin with...
  • Jossed as of episode 8, except for the "epic fight against Bernkastel" part.

The story isn't a mystery.
One of Dine's commandments states that there "must not be a love interest". Normally, I would think that I was being silly and looking at things from a shipper's point of view, but even if Battler doesn't reciprocate her feelings, Beato certainly seems to like him. The feeling doesn't have to be mutual for a love interest to become a love interest. Therefore, that rule has been broken, and the story can no longer be referred to as a mystery. If we say that the commandments simply don't apply, then it still can't be referred to as a mystery. Therefore, it is not a mystery - but that doesn't necessarily confirm the existence of witches. What does this leave us with? Anti-Fantasy With A Witch and Pro-Fantasy With A Witch?
  • But what if the supposed "attraction" is just a mother loving her son? Beato would be about Eva's age in 1986, assuming Rosa just mistook her for dead, similar to most of the corpses in EP 5. Maybe she survived, had Battler, and Kinzo just handed him out to whoever would take him as their "Grandson". Natsuhi didn't want him, Kinzo just sent him off to Asumu, and she just happened to want Battler because she had a miscarriage. The reason Beato didn't want to say that in red was because she didn't want to hurt Battler any more.
    • Beatrice seems to have a sexual attraction to him, it doesn't really look like mother's love, does it? Just remember the balcony scene from EP 4 - sorry, but the things she says don't sound very motherly.
      • She's crazy. Simple as that.
  • Dine's commandments were never mentioned in the game so far, and they don't really define what a mystery is. Most of them are basically extended Knox rules, and the 3rd one wasn't the only one broken there. (16th for example.)
  • If you want to look at it from another angle, Red Text is really screwy and relies on Exact Words and Metaphorically True. In EP 5, Dlanor starts spouting Knox commandments like crazy to counter some of Battler's arguments, but she never says 'This is a mystery that obeys the Knox commandments' in red. Unless Battler can get that confirmation, Erika can keep using Mystery to make up whatever truth seems most convenient. This is VERY heavily implied in the part of the Anti-Fantasy vs. Anti-Mystery TIPS where it seems as if Beatrice is mocking the reader for thinking that she's "playing fair". Taken further, the murders are being made to look like a genuine Mystery and a Fantasy by the real culprit. Only the dual blades of red Anti-Mystery and blue Anti-Fantasy can destroy the sick game on Rokkenjima and free Battler.
  • Long before then, the rule that states "No supernatural occurrences must figure into the mystery" would have been broken the moment the Meta-World was introduced, yet it is still treated as a mystery. That's because events in the Meta-World do not directly impact the mystery in the real world, so Beatrice and Battler's relationship can be seen as existing outside the actual mystery.
  • You're all forgetting something. There are mysteries that obey neither Knox's nor Dine's rules.
  • Jossed by Word of God

Battler is the man from 19 years ago is Beatrice's child
Ninteen years ago, Kinzo came up to Natsuhi with an infant that she was to "welcome as my grandchild". Nineteen years ago is approximately the time Rosa's Beatrice fell to her death - Natsuhi is even kind enough to note that "Rosa was still living in the house back then."

The kid was Kinzo's child by that Beatrice, of course. There's no way the old man would allow a stranger with inferior non-Ushiromiya genes into the pinnacle of the inheritance hierarchy. A suddenly orphaned child and a childless heir was too convenient to pass up.

When he was told that the kid had died, his only response was a senile-sounding ramble about how he 'expected' that, and they had 'escaped again'. So far as Kinzo knew, the previous Beatrice also died from randomly falling from a cliff. He might have come to feel it was his 'fate' to lose every part of Beatrice that waynote .

The still-living child was squirreled away by Rudolf and/or Kyrie and/or Asumu as a trump card against Kinzo. A genuine illegitimate Kinzo spawn would be of great value, just so long as he never learns the truth and becomes bitter and vengeful.

  • Disquieting implications: if Rosa's Beatrice was the daughter of Kinzo's Beatrice, then Battler is Kinzo's son AND grandson. No wonder everyone and their dog is compelled to observe how much they look alike. Also, he's romancing the metatextual projection of his grandmother.
  • Ooh, I like this theory a lot. I guess the big question I have is "How did Battler get from the cliff to Rudolf?" Was it some sort of deal that the servant struck in advance, and then the servant faked his/her own death or something?
  • Jossed. Battler is the child of Rudolf and Kyrie, as explained in episode 8.

Hanyuu will set Bern right in the Good Ending
There will be hugging and crying.

At the end of Umineko Meta-Battler will find himself in the same position as Bernkastel after Higurashi
He will become a separate entity form his human self, a Sorcerer wandering the sea of kakera for all eternity. He will be forever separated from everyone he cares about, his only companion being the enemy he fought all this time, and came to love......after all, now they have only each other.

The baby from 19 years ago is a Red Herring
We know it was possible for the games to be solved after the first four. The existence of the baby wasn't even implied until the 5th game, so it's unlikely that the child's existence is important to the mystery.
  • Weren't the baby and the servant mentioned as backstory in the first game?
    • Certainly the servant was. Alternatively, the baby could be Battler; saying that his mother isn't Asumu does rather imply that she was someone else, doesn't it?
    • But we were also told that Kyrie gave birth, and miscarried, the same day that Asumu did. It's possible that Asumu was the one who really miscarried, and tricked people into thinking Battler was her child when it was really Kyrie's.
  • Jossed. The person from 19 years ago was meant to be included in "Land of the Golden Witch" (the first draft of episode 3).

Ange isn't Battler's little sister...
... she's his daughter. This theory is only viable if Battler is the child from 19 years ago, pushing up his age. Battler would have been around 13 to 14 years old when Ange was conceived (Battler's supposed to be 18 + 1 year between when Natsuhi received the child and when Battler was born + 1 year for the child having existed prior to Natsuhi being given it rounded up -7 years = ~ 13) it's possible for boys to produce viable sperm at that age. He's also shown that he believes acting pervy is something a man's supposed to do. He and one of the servant girls go at it, girl gets pregnant. Nine months pass, servant gives birth to Ange, but by this point Asumu is dead, so Rudolf hurries Kyrie into the registry in order to make it seem that Ange is their child conceived by affair before Asumu's death. Battler gets angry, doesn't realize his sister is his daughter and leaves the family. Six years later Ange's real mother takes revenge on the Ushiromiya family because Battler stole her heart, knocked her up, and then forgot all about her.
  • It's so much crueller than that. Battler was a precocious casanova, like his father. Ange is Kyrie's daughter. Battler is very likely Kyrie's son too, but neither know it. That Oedipus guy, too, kept going on about 'truth truth truth', but what he learned didn't make him happy.
  • Plus, think about it: Six years ago, Battler commited some terrible sin. Those very six years ago, Ange was born. Hmm....
  • Jossed, Battler's (and by extension, Ange's) family situation is explaine in episode 8. Also, in epsisode 7, Kyrie acknowledges Ange as her daughter.

In relation to the above, Ange's mother is Beatrice.
It was implied at one point that Beatrice used to be furniture, so she could have been a servant for the Ushiromiya household prior to becoming Beatrice. She could have been the servant girl whom Battler slept with, and the one to give birth to Ange. However, this was back when she was a sweet, naive girl who knew little about how the real world worked. She would not fully understand the social ramifications of a young woman (never mind a twelve or thirteen year old) having a child out of wedlock. She is the mother who wants revenge on Battler not only for knocking her up, but (in her eyes) for stealing her child away from her.
  • Doubt it. Battler's actually pretty innocent in this aspect, and there's no proof to back up this claim. He only had a crush on one person in his life, and it was Shannon, but according to what he said in EP 5, he never actually confessed to her before he made those cheesy Engrish statements and left for six years and never came back.
    • Schroedinger's Virginity; besides, Ange's mother doesn't have to be a servant girl who eventually took on the name of "Beatrice". For all we know, it could be Jessica.
  • Jossed as above.

The "Battler is Kyrie's son" theory, and the "Battler is the child from 19 years ago theory" are compatible.
Asumu and Kyrie gave birth around the same time. Asumu's child was stillborn, but if Kyrie gave birth to a son and Asumu didn't Rudolf would have to leave her for Kyrie. So Asumu has someone take Kyrie's child and put it up for adoption. Unfortunately for her, they put him in a certain orphanage that has close ties with the Ushiromiya family, causing Kinzo to find out. He tries to have Natsuhi raise the child but that doesn't go well. Then Kinzo puts Battler with Rudolf and Asumu and has them act like the child was born a year later then it really was.
  • Jossed in episode 8.

Kanon is Bernkastel
Kanon is frequently and in an oddly deliberate manner compared to a cat. Bernkastel has a cat tail and at one point actually shows up as a cat. Kanon compares himself to a duck when talking to Jessica. Bernkastel said that she fell into Lambdadelta's trap like a duck in the extra Bernkastel's letter TIP. Bernkastel's obsessed with exposing Beatrice. Kanon expressed a former desire to "disclose her true colors" should he find her in the Gohda diary TIP, and still now dislikes her. He is also implied to be sneaking around throughout significant portions of the episodes - perhaps gathering clues? Both are also pretty calm, collected, and snarky, except when they get pissed.

Bern's beloved piece Erika is also wearing Jessica's old clothing - a lingering fetish perhaps?

  • More-or-less jossed as of episode 7.

  • jossed
Kinzo isn't dead.
In episode 4, it's stated that someone else can be recognized as Kinzo. If this is so, that person could be the Kinzo who is dead before the beginning of each game. Whoever they are, the real Kinzo is impersonating them or has paid an outsider to do so. It's most easily applicable if the dead Kinzo is Kanon or Shannon since the (mostly jossed, but not impossible) Shkanon theory could support this. If Kinzo is alive, he could be the one who caused the massacre in the dining hall in Alliance, thus making it easier to believe that his children believed it was him. Think about it, how willing would you be to accept some random person was the successor to your Disappeared Dad?
  • Explain the scene with Natsuhi, Genji, Kumasawa, and Kinzo's body in EP5. The significance is this is where Natsuhi gets the idea of pretending that Kinzo is still alive.
  • Maybe Kinzo is pretending to be Genji?
    • That's what I was thinking. It makes the most sense since Genji delivers the will of Kinzo and spends a good deal of time in the study. If this is so, I assume the other servants (other than Gohda and maybe Kumasawa) are in on it. Nobody else sees much of Genji, and they've only ever seen Kinzo bearded, so clean shaven with different hair and some concealing make-up and it's plausible to think that nobody would notice Genji and Kinzo being swapped.
  • Wasn't it states the Kinzo was dead, in red. And that no one could pass off as the real Kinzo?
    • Yes, however Battler proposed that the name Kinzo was given to whoever was the head of the family (thus explaining how everyone at the family conference recoginized Kinzo's existence in the fourth game). If his theory is correct whoever was the head before Kinzo would also be named Kinzo.
  • Kinzo is confirmed dead as of episode 5's ????.

Maria is Kinzo's daughter.
Because he's a bastard. That'd also explain why Rosa is so broken. That doesn't mean that she's the murderer though.
  • That's probably the most likely explanation. Otherwise, why would Rosa be such a freak and why would she react so strongly to mentions of Maria's father?
    • Because he's her fiance, who ditched her after knocking her up. Even without invoking any other secrets, that's shameful to a lot of women, especially in Eastern cultures. There's also the possibility that our non-Kinzo mystery father raped her. Frankly, I don't imagine that Kinzo would touch Rosa unless he mistook her for Beatrice...but then she does have a connection to her...and the Supernatural Narrative says that Kinzo's black blood runs strongest in Maria...and Rosa and Beatrice seem to be a typical child's dissociation scenario of dividing a mother into pure good and pure evil beings. Uh oh, I think I just undercut my own argument.
  • Implicitly jossed as of episode 7. Kinzo seems to seriously regret what he did to Beatrice II. I don't think he would do that again.

Jessica's band isn't the only Touhou Project Shout-Out
Other than Jessica dressed as Marisa Kirisame in her band, there are other Touhou Project references. The Siestas are all Expies of Reisen Udongein Inaba and Gaap is an Expy of Yukari Yakumo.
  • On the NINTH twilight, the witch shall be revived and none shall be left alive. Therefore, Beatrice summons the strongest and most intelligent furniture, Cirno, to finish off the murders in every game.
  • Going by this, it could be stated that the ultimate goal of the game is to crush the Hakurei border and bring Rokkenjima into Gensokyo. Where that island is going to go is a mystery unto itself.
    • And let's not forget that Lambadelta bears a striking resemblance to Flandre Scarlet.

Maria has created the story
Maria's powers as a creator witch are far outside her control. Note that she had drawn pictures of all the witches starting from the first arc. She could very well have created all the witches. If this was the case, truly defeating the witches would be done by causing Maria to deny the beings she created, just as her mother denied and destroyed Sakutaro. Not only would this be extremely, painfully ironic, it would also tie into 07ths use of decoy protagonist.
  • Makes sense if you completely overlook that the story has to do with something that Battler forgot he had done 6 years ago, when Maria was...three. She doesn't remember Battler at all, let alone some promise he had failed to keep. Still, it would make sense if Maria only created the first two arcs and AuAu had somehow found out about them and wrote everything afterwards.
    • It's possible for an action to affect someone indirectly, for example; Battler did something six years ago that caused Maria's father to leave Rosa, causing her anguish. Furthermore Battler would not even have to be aware that he caused the breakup.
    • It's possible that we misinterpret the time frame the story takes place in, for example; Battler is really Kinzo, senile and dying, and Maria is his wife telling him stories, distortions of their own lives, to coax the identity of his mistress out of him before he passes.
  • Jossed in episode 8.

Beatrice and Virgillia are the same person
Just a silly theory based on that one scene where Virgillia takes Beatrice as her apprentice. Just looking at the dialogue, it seems like one person named Beatrice talking in third person.
  • Jossed as of episode 7.

The true number of people (excluding Erika) on the island is 20.
No more than 17 humans exist on this island!! That statement isn't in decimal, but base 13. 17 in base 13 is equal to 20 in decimal. Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented. However, At one point Kinzo is shown saying that "6* 9=42" which doesn't make sense in decimal, but makes perfect sense in base 13, thereby satisifying Knox's 8th. This allows three more people to be on the island. Furthermore, besides the people confirmed to be alive on the island, anyone mentioned in the first game can be one of the extra people and the culprit without violating Knox's 1st.

Beatrice will eventually end up marrying every single Ushiromiya.
Suppose Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice are all the same person. In that case, Beatrice is involved with each of the cousins (as Kanon with Jessica, as Shannon with George, as Beatrice with Battler and with Maria in the Mariage Sorcière). Let Eva get too stressed and EVA-Beatrice appears. And of course, Kinzo was completely obsessed with Beatrice. All we need now is for Natsuhi and Kyrie to get in the act and every single Ushiromiya will either be Beatrice or be married to her.

Erika is Beatrice is Jessica.
We've all heard Jessitrice, so we can leave that aside. We also know that Erika doesn't exist, but that she must in some form due to the Red. The solution most-often speculated is that "Erika" is a sort of ball that's passed around as necessary, meaning it's a title assumed by the appropriate character. In this case, I'm assuming it's Jessica. Not only are Erika and Beatrice thematically contrasted, but everyone compares Erika and Jessica. Not only that, but Jessica is pretty much a non-factor whenever Erika's involved in multiple ways. Jessica's already been speculated to have split personalities by Battler himself, and Erika dissolves into gold Beatrice-style when she dies, satisfying the Epitaph by "sleeping forever" by the game's own text! Ontop of that, this can explain why Kanon was necessary to save Batter. If Jessrika met Kanon, she'd probably go sane from whatever's making her effing kill people and generally being a monster-bitch.
  • Jossed by episode 7.

All of the Fukuin children are Beatrice candidates.
Whatever Kinzo wanted from Rosa's Beatrice, he didn't get it. She was like Battler's Beatrice of EP6, an innocent child that had the looks, but not the soul. Thus, when she died, he quite obviously continued trying to revive her. He also started adopting servants from the Fukuin orphanage. We know that someone was going around doing pranks to make the Beatrice legend more believable, and we also know all the Fukuin children were given false furniture names. Perhaps Kinzo (and Kumasawa) were teaching them "magic", such as the furniture of false, maintainable identities, and teaching them basically how to be Beatrice. Shannon/Shkannon may be the "winner." Which would be ironic if this was triggered by Battler.
  • Jossed by episode 7.

All the hints towards Shkannon theory being true are just epic trolling.
Note, I'm not really against Shkannon myself, but this would be so Ryukishi 07 - made us believe in something just for teh lulz, and then present a completely different solution.
  • That might be interesting. And what sort of alternatives do you propose? (EP6 also presses Shkannontrice pretty fucking hard.)
    • I think the fact that it was pressed so fucking hard was maybe the point of that troper. Think about it, the cheese scene: it's very unlikely it was pointless. Most people had figured out the actual answer behind the typical "4 slices" one (I, not knowing that riddle, thought I had figured out the real answer as well), but Battler and Erika figured out there was another answer beyond the not so obvious one. Just when you think "Shkanontrice is the truth", you will be surprised when someone tells you there was a real truth beyond that. Or so I think.
  • Kanzo. Kanon solved the epitaph or in some other way inherited the title Kinzo (this idea was proposed in ep 4.) Battler specifically made a point to exclude Kinzo from the "everyone else" statement of who was in the cousin's room, so Kanon could have been anywhere and saved Battler from the guest room. He then escaped either by being Shkanon (he cast off "Kanon" as shown in the fantasy scene and became "Shannon") or by dying after being shot by Shannon (as shown in the fantasy scene.)
    • That only explains the riddle in EP6 though. How do you account for ALL OF the Shkannon hints?
      • Well, this is WMG, I guess. Here's my random guess. Episode 6 basically confirms that Shannon is Beatrice. Shannon actually became a servant on the island when she was insanely young, like 4 I think, and depending on how old Rosa is/was, this fits with being immediately after the imprisoned human Beatrice died. So it seems plausible that Kinzo brought in Shannon to be the new Beatrice. Why? Because "The island must always have a Beatrice." Don't ask me why. Taking this further, if we're assuming Kanzo, "the island must always have a Kinzo." The title is inherited, so there's always a Kinzo. If these two things are true, then it explains all of the hints about the "incomplete soul" or whatever. Shannon can be with Battler and be "beatrice", Shannon can be with George and be Shannon/Sayo (she'd leave the island, violating the idea that "the island must have a beatrice."). The only problem with this is the fact that both of those have to fail if Kanon stays with Jessica. Why couldn't Shannon be with Battler (as Beatrice) and Kanon be with Jessica? The most obvious explanation is Shkannon. Another explanation, and this is a similar mechanism to the one in Higurashi, but perhaps the confirmed explosion only goes off when Shannon fails to be Beatrice (whatever that involves) and Kanon fails to be Kinzo (whatever that involves.) You'll note that one of them (shannon or kanon) always dies before the end of episodes that reach to the end of day 2, when the bomb goes off. So unless Beatrice is the one of the three groups that succeeds, the bomb will go off. Honestly, this is all pretty weak and not terribly supported, and Shkannon is supported very well, but it would be cool.
  • Minor note, Shannon came to Rokkenjima when she was apparently six. Also, you had me until "If these two things are true, then it explains all of the hints about the "incomplete soul" or whatever." The following doesn't make any sense to me. I like the "There must always be a Beatrice and Kinzo" thing though, but the rest is just waaay too strenuously forced.
  • Shkannon is extremly heavily implied in episode 7, by Will Wright.
    • However, all of Will's solutions are intentionally built to be a metaphor with more than one (but equally plausible) meaning. There's an alternate theory that's growing in popularity that states that Rosa is actually Beatrice and that Shannon and Kanon are different people. Yasu is a larval state of the Beatrice persona. The "body incapable of love" is a metaphor regarding unworthiness/self loathing rather than being literal. There is a literal 3 way love war, but Rosa is NOT pursuing Eros from Battler, rather its about being understood (Storge/Agape). If this theory is true, than the trolling R7 is doing is based upon preying upon assumed definitions, such as the definition of love. The "incomplete soul" refers to [[spoilers: Rosa's]] life "lacking love" (due to her crappy past, this in many ways is ALL FOUR).
Erika is Maria
As the 'Erika is Jessica' theory above, but:
  • We know that Maria is ferociously intelligent.
  • We know Maria has been through some fairly traumatic events which might cause her to act out against her former hippy-dippy witchy ways and replace them with a core of cold hard rationality.
  • They look the same age.
  • Erika's backstory, about the cheating boyfriend who she couldn't prove didn't love her, is a straight copy-paste of Maria's relationship with her mother.
  • The throwaway line in Episode 1 about how children Maria's age spend a lot of time 'trying on' new personalities.
  • Maria's 'witch battle' against Erika would suddenly be much more exciting.

It follows that...

  • Maria is not Erika. Maria's trauma is what caused her to ferociously involve herself in witch games in the first place, and there's nothing to suggest her character would change in such a dramatic way. Really, Maria and Erika have just about nothing in common whatsoever.

The Red-dressed person is an androgynous male
Flat chest, masculine clothing, Ryukishi's a troll.
  • Confirmed. I so called this.
    • Where was it confirmed?
      • In the VN, dude. His name is Lion Ushiromiya, Jessica's older brother and Krauss and Natsuhi's son.
      • Lion was always referred to gender-neutrally in the VN. and He's actually Kinzo's son/grandson through Beatrice Ushiromiya.
      • And, of course, therefore is not necessarily male.
      • VN's not out in English yet, so I'm still behind. I tend to wait for the translation to be posted on YouTube.
    • It's probably most confirmed by Will's question, "Are you a boy or girl?". Hilariously enough, in retrospect it actually is one of the many mysteries of the game. It retroactively calls into question Yasu's gender. We've all been assuming that Shanon was the main personality and thus Yasu is a girl. If she/he is as androgynous as Lion, I can see how she/he would be able to disguise herself and play the role of both a boy and girl. In other words, The Treachery of Images to the max. "Yasu" told the story in first person POV. Claire/Beatrice and Shanon are girls because those personalities are girls. Yasu her/himself only used "I". Kanon is a male personality. Think Shiki from Kara no Kyoukai is the best analogy I can think of. It also makes a lot more sense how her/his different personalities managed to fall in love with three of the cousins at once. However, the original bud of love was from Shanon's love for Battler, which also means it's still his fault all this snowballed into a horrible tragedy. Figures.
  • In the visual novel, Will question Lion about his/her gender, and Lion is not willing to answer.
  • What about: Biologically male, but presents as female (that long blonde hair, clothing borders on pink in some images, and uses a notably feminine voice)? It's hard to really argue due to being raised a certain way, but maybe, at some level, Lion is transsexual.
    • Even if Lion were transsexual, it's not very likely that s/he would openly present as female. Kinzo makes it very clear that he dislikes the idea of a woman being the next head of the family, and it would cause a lot of uproar among the other relatives, especially Eva.

The term "dead" simply means the person isn't thinking.
For example, Gohda is dead., could mean: Gohda is a corpse, but it could also that he is unconscious.
  • Jossed in Episode 2.

Not only is the Shkannon theory false, Yasu does not exist literately. However, this does NOT exclude Yasu and Beatrice from being the same.
The theory conflicts with several red truths:

1. Besides Erika, there are 17 people on the island. This number is the same as in previous games. (Episode 5) Erika has the perspective of the detective in this game AND sees BOTH Shannon and Kanon at the same time.2. People are defined as bodies (Episode 6, might not be exact words though.) This discredits the notion that personas count as a person.3. Servants are forbidden from being the culprit (episode 7).4. Battler's sin is not against Beatrice If Beatrice and Shannon are the same person, then this is physically impossible.

As for Yasu, recall that episode 7 is from a magical perspective and thus is not to be trusted at face value. Symbolism is still valid though. This means that Yasu as a literal physical person does not exist. Since Yasu and Beatrice are the same entity, it means that Yasu is to be interpreted symbolically. What does Yasu symbolize you ask? The answer to that has already been given in a section of background story in the question arcs if you know where to look.

In addition, the location of the one winged eagle tatoo on "Island Beatrice" and Shannon are on different locations (front side of right leg on "Island Beatrice" and front of left leg on Shannon). There is no indication that this tatoo is anything but a permanent tatoo in this series.

I suspect that the reason for the theory even existing is due to a massive, multi-snare trap that was placed in the core arcs. Ryuukishi even said he was going to be doing such a thing in an interview before the core arcs were done and that he expected most of the fans to fall for it. Given that he's a Trolling Creator (we love it), this should not be a surprise. There are four likely snares in this trap. 1. Mis-interpretation of red truths via adding meaning that is not there. Red truths are supposed to be taken literately since they are merely truth without evidence and impossible to contradict. 2. The logic error (the double sealed room IIRC). There is a non magical solution to it. The hints needed to solve it are Erika's location, the order in which she does things, and the fact that there's three rooms in that hall. 3. The accidental "perfect closed room" in episode 6 (accidentally created by Erika). 4. Misinterpretation of what Yasu is considering the point of view (subjective) not being taken into consideration. 5. The seeming conflicting red truths regarding 18 and 17 people in episode 6. That discrepancy is not about Shannon and Kanon, its about Erika. The reason for the difference is a simple contra factual involving alternate timelines (which are therefore alternate worlds differing by differences between time lines). Alternate timelines/worlds is a common element of When They Cry. In most time lines, Erika would be dead rather than surviving. Its a similar trick used to rule out Kinzo as one of the "bodies".

This asks the question of who is "Island Beatrice". To prevent internet spoilers (something Ryuukishi said in an interview he wanted to avoid to protect the hard work of those who correctly solved the mystery), I shall not say who I believe to be the prime culprit. I will however say this: it says.......quite a lot actually, explains certain priorities, and explains the symbolic meaning of Yasu.

  • Jossed, since the manga confirms unambiguously that Shannon and Kanon share the same body and it later reinforces the fact that Shannon was originally Yasu's Imaginary Friend.

Witches have an aversion to the name of Knox.
Beatrice would describe the commandments, but would not name the source. This is partly because the Decalogue's rules are for the mystery genre, and her victory condition required a fantasy conclusion. This was also partly because Knox is a notorious witch-hunter and a powerful enemy she did not wish to invite the attention of. Only Bernkastel dared to do that while playing the Human side, and even then she only did it through a Human intermediary.
  • Jossed; Beatrice name-drops Knox and Van Dine in EP2 when denying hidden doors.