Is this an example?

~Madrugada, would you include Direct to Video sequels in that analysis?

Ahhh, hummm. I'd lean hard toward ."No" because they aren't ever intended to be released in the same market. It['s not that they're released on video before they're released in theaters; "theaters" is never in the plans at all.

That's why I decided against supporting "theatrical movie sequel gets home video before original" as a Sequel First. The cases seemed too similar.

But a theatrical film and its theatrical film sequel are expanding into a new area when they go to video, so the sequel going to video first is out of order.

In the first Parasite Eve game, it's revealed that the accident in which Maya Brea died led to Maya's cornea being transplanted into Aya's right eye to fix a congenital defect in it, and Maya's kidney being transplanted into Melissa Pierce. The former is the source of Aya's superhuman powers, and the latter caused Melissa to eventually become the unwilling host for Mitochondria Eve (and dying in the process), which sets the stage for the game's plot since Aya's powers render her The Immune to Mitochondria Eve's power to induce spontaneous combustion in anyone with impunity.

Maya's death seems like a Plot-Triggering Death to me; am I correct?

edited 7th Dec '16 7:35:08 AM by MarqFJA

Sounds accurate, yes.

She didn't 'die' though to start the plot it was a permanent possession, which led to a Possession Burnout at the end of the game.

edited 7th Dec '16 10:09:09 AM by Memers

Actually, she really did die. Like, for real. She's a Posthumous Character who has been dead for over a decade in-story. What Aya sees during the non-New Game Plus game is merely a hallucination caused by Genetic Memory from the cornea implant, while the Maya in the New Game Plus is physically a clone cultured from liver cells that were acquired from her corpse; whether the Maya that Purebred Eve allows Aya to speak with is the actual ghost of the real Maya or simply a Genetic Memory construct is not clear.

edited 7th Dec '16 10:30:04 AM by MarqFJA

Maya died in the book though that parasite eve was a sequel of IIRC so it wouldn't be quite that. I might be remembering wrong though.

edited 7th Dec '16 11:19:08 AM by Memers

Would you guys say that We Didn't Start the Führer inherently possesses Unfortunate Implications when it comes to its "Adolf Hitler/World War II (and the inhumane horrors and misery that accompanied it) was inflicted on us by otherworldly forces, not something mankind brought about by itself" message, in the sense that it can be argued to take away from how Hitler and co. in particular and WW 2 in general proved that humans can be unbelievably inhumane in behavior?

You probably are, because every source I can get my hands on asserts that 1) the very first mention of her is in the first video game, and 2) she's really dead. You may be confusing her for her mother Mariko Brea, who may or may not be Mariko Anzai from the novel (if she is, she obviously married a man with the surname Brea and took his surname as her own as is traditional in both Japan, her home country, and the USA, her husband's own homeland).

edited 8th Dec '16 5:58:09 PM by MarqFJA

No, I don't think that's the case. Too many examples of "We Didn't Start the Führer" take the tack that Hitler started things, but he succeeded because many untampered-with people followed him, abetted him, or at the very least, did nothing or not much to stop him.

edited 8th Dec '16 6:07:37 PM by Madrugada

OK, so instead of it being an inherent risk, it's just a possible risk? And one which is a very sensitive topic, owing to all the horrific crimes that have been committed by the Hitlerite regime's hands?

It's a possible risk for just about any trope.

It's a possible risk, yes. Whether it would be likely, and how sensitive it would be would depend largely on the writer. It certainly would be possible to write a story that all but absolves everyone of everything, but that would be a deliberate choice by the author and I don't think it would be easy to do, short of using a bunch of worldwide mind-control tropes, not just We Didn't Start the Führer.

Would this count as Framing the Guilty Party:

• During the eighth and ninth Safehold books, the Inner Circle has kept an eye on a conspiracy by nobles in Sharleyan's Kingdom of Chisholm to overthrow the crown. For the most part, the Inner Circle repeats what they did in a previous similar occurrence: use their access to Surveillance as the Plot Demands to keep track of evidence so it can be later found by more mundane methods. In this instance, they also keep track of written messages passed between the conspirators so that, when it comes time for trial, exact replicas of that correspondence can be used as evidence even when the conspirators themselves have since burned the originals. As one character notes, they can't exactly say they know the evidence is fake because they already destroyed it, and destroying it in the first place is an admission of guilt unto itself.

Yep. It's the first variation: Framing a Known Guilty Party: "You know who the bad guy is, but there's not quite enough evidence to prove it, so the cops/prosecutors either create the evidence or allow someone else to create it " In this case they recreate the evidence.

edited 8th Dec '16 7:41:20 PM by Madrugada

From YMMV.Hairspray:

• Special Effects Failure: Many commenters on the NBC live show complained that the singing was pitched too low in the sound mix and hard to make out, even seeming to occasionally cut out completely.

Does this belong under this trope, or does a more relevant one exist?

Ok, I'm not sure if this should be under Continuity Nod or Mythology Gag, since it's deliberately ambiguous about whether it's canon or not:

• Babel-17 by Samuel R. Delany has an amusingly twisted example. Rydra Wong and her shipmate Ron start talking about "'Empire Star' and other Comet Jo stories", written by Muels Aranlyde, and Wong explains that Comet Jo is a real person who she knows, but that the stories are only loosely based on reality. Empire Star is actually a novella by Delany, and its protagonist is named Comet Jo. So you're left to wonder if Delany's novella is fact or fiction from the perspective of Babel-17's characters.

Seems more like a variation on [s]Mutually Fictional.[/s] Recursive Canon.

edited 10th Dec '16 5:01:39 AM by crazysamaritan

Aha! Yup, that looks like the right one. Thanks.

Could someone take a look at these examples from Emerald City:

• Adaptational Attractiveness:
  • Lucas, the counterpart of the Scarecrow, is a handsome young human man.
  • The Wicked Witches of the East and West aren’t old crones and are portrayed by younger actresses
• Adaptational Badass:
  • Toto is a K9 police dog. So it'd be strange if he wasn't tougher.
  • Lucas is young and strong warrior, unlike his counterpart the Scarecrow.
• Adaptational Villainy: The Wizard may be subject to this. Descriptions state that he rules "many kingdoms" and has outlawed all the magic in favor of his own technology.
• Crapsack World: Oz is described as being in peril and having lethal warriors wandering the land. Plus, magic exists but has been outlawed by the Wizard.

Hmm, it's been many years since I read (key word there) the original. Let me see.

Attractiveness. I don't remember how the witches were portrayed in the book, but my vague memory suggests that example may be ok. However, I don't think the scarecrow being played by a normal Hollywood actor (inherently attractive) counts, so, thumbs down on the first, tentative thumbs up on the second.

Badass: for a subtrope of a widely misused trope, those actually seem like reasonably valid examples.

Villainy: the words "may be" seem like a red flag to me. Examples Are Not Arguable. As written, I would say no.

Crapsack World: Sounds much more negative than the original, but not enough so to count. At least not as written.

edited 10th Dec '16 3:31:03 PM by Xtifr

Could someone take a look at these examples.

YMMV.Zack And Miri Make A Porno:

• Audience-Alienating Premise: Well, title, at least. Because it had the word "porno" in it, TV stations would only run ads for it during the watershed hours and posters mostly bore the nonspecific moniker of Zack and Miri. As a result, it underperformed at the box office.

Art-Style Dissonance:

• This is the main criticism of As Told by Ginger. It's a mostly grounded Slice of Life, but Klasky-Csupo's art style is... controversial, to say the least. It comes off as unappealing looking or unfitting to many people.

YMMV.Nathan Rabin:

• Seasonal Rot: Ever since 2016, there have been complaints about his change in style for MWOF and Sub-Cult, with much of the criticism coming from his increasingly Anvilicious viewpoints and centering his choices for coverage around white male privilege and nothing else.

YMMV.Due Date:

• Audience-Alienating Premise: In the same way that Rat Race is It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, except less creative and without all the famous comedians, this film is often passed up as Planes, Trains and Automobiles... except not as creative and without the famous comedians.

To anybody who's played Super Mario Sunshine: Would the colored Bloopers that Mario can ride count as Helpful Mooks? I'm not sure since they're not treated like enemies like the similarly helpful Pink Boos.

edited 12th Dec '16 6:36:39 PM by Karxrida

In order : shoehorning, shoehorning, looks OK, content-free example.