Character design: Multi-ethnic/national Five Woman Band

An all-female Five-Token Band-type Five-Man Band (including a few Sixth Rangers) that I'm making is supposed to represent major character archetypes from all over the world. Currently, I have the following composition, with assigned primary character types and (at least vague) national identities:

• The Hero: Japan; Yamato Nadeshiko and Team Mom.
• The Lancer: Europe (country undecided); The Ojou, Guile Hero (The Chessmaster-style), The Strategist and Team Dad.
• The Smart Gal: Europe (country undecided); Omnidisciplinary Scientist (Super-Intelligence-type).
• The Big Gal #1 (Amazon type): multiethnic American (by "official US census definitions", she's a mixed White/Native/African/Latin American); The Lad-ette and The Gunslinger.
• The Big Gal #2 (Cute Bruiser type): China/Korea; Genki Girl Genius Ditz with Bare-Fisted Monk martial skill and Kick Chick-grade legs.
• Sixth Ranger #1: Country undecided; The Stoic and Ineffectual Loner.
• Sixth Ranger #2: Eastern Europe (Slavic with strong Russian themes); Token Evil Teammate, Sensual Slavs.

Now, here are my current problems...

1. Both The Lancer and Sixth Ranger #1 are competing for taking Britain as their nationality, since both of them fit much of its archetypical/stereotypical traits: A Stiff Upper Lip, for example, would fit the former quite well, being a European aristocrat and all, but the latter is quite the Stoic person, to the point where British Stuffiness is more appropiate to describe her stoic and solitary personality. And while I was initially imagining The Lancer as being mixed English/French, I'm not sure if making her pure French would blend well with her acting like a mixed-Ice Queen-and-Royal Brat-type Ojou and Team Dad.

2. The Smart Gal... Besides Japan (which is already taken), Russia (again, taken) and Germany, I am having trouble coming up with a country that has plausible associations with a "scientist character" archetype/stereotype.

3. I cannot for the life of me think of a major role for a (pan-)African/Middle Eastern/Arab character or an Indian one in the group.

Any suggestions for the above issues?

PS: Just to be clear, my usage of tropes here is largely as shorthands for brevity's sake.

edited 20th Jan '12 3:43:23 PM by MarqFJA

So you're intentionally making a team of characters built with tropes and ethnic and national stereotypes.

Lovely.

1) The tropes are being used mainly are shorthands to avoid boringly longer descriptions, as has been pointed by myself and another troper in the Random Questions Thread.

2) There is a perfectly good justification for the national/ethnic stereotype thing. Four words: Pygmalion Plot en masse.

3) I would appreciate if you would take this matter seriously and make helpful contributions instead of making sarcastic wise-cracks. Would you like it if tropers did the same thing to you in a similar situation?

edited 20th Jan '12 4:06:11 PM by MarqFJA

The tropes still don't tell me anything substantial about the actual characters, which is essential to actually constructively helping you.

~reads linked plot page~

...this is another weird Japanese(-esque) thing based on Western culture, isn't it?

Edit: The sarcasm is to indicate that it's not a compliment, not that it's a joke.

I legitimately find this premise offensive, but because it's poorly explained (again, characters need to be elaborated, not given as a list of tropes) and I haven't received a particularly clear defense for it yet, I haven't gotten into actual irritated mode. I'm assuming on good faith that there is something to be found here past "yes, my cast is made up of national stereotypes and I think this is totally ok, why do you ask?" and is in fact largely because of miscommunication, not maliciousness (or ignorance).

edited 20th Jan '12 4:14:51 PM by Flyboy

Main character has a very sucky past filled with genuinely cruel heartbreaks and abusive girlfriend(s), Parental Abandonment, and generally bad luck. As an adult, despite having a stable job, he resorts to otaku interests at home to escape his depression and misery, and ends up using his modest sewing skills to handcraft his own "imaginary girlfriend" in the form of a lifesized doll. Long story short: A whimsical wish that he makes upon a shooting star turns her real. Suffice to say, it doesn't stop there.

Does that sound like "another weird Japanese(-esque) thing based on Western culture" to you?

edited 20th Jan '12 4:18:30 PM by MarqFJA

Given that you describe him explicitly as an otaku and you're aware of the cultural origins of the stock plot you're using, yes. Whether or not this can be done well is another matter entirely.

Then perhaps it's a good thing that I've spent a lot of time reading and privately criticizing many badly-written fanfics over the past few years, right?

... As for the otaku thing, let's just say that he subverts much of the negative stereotype that is usually associated with the word.

edited 20th Jan '12 4:21:43 PM by MarqFJA

I don't think I want to help with this anymore, if it's going to be as offensive as you think it will be...

That is well within your rights; no hard feelings at all.

Would it help if I said that I intend for the overall story to be a Genre-Busting Mix And Match of Magical Girl Warrior, Sentai, Mecha Genre (both Super Robot and Real Robot), Urban Fantasy, (of the Dark Fantasy kind), Supernatural Fiction, Cyberpunk / Post-Cyberpunk (yes, both), Cosmic Horror Story, and the Hentai genre*

Not... really, no, unless part of it is observing and commenting on the inherent sexist and racist implications that come as a package deal with the basic concept presented here...

Why is Eastern Europe the Token Evil Teammate?

I want that explanation now.

Said sexist and racist implications being...?

Really, I mean, how different is this from having a character fall in love with certain female characters that he personally believes to be the "pinnacle" of each major ethnicity/nationality (e.g. Chunli for Anime Chinese Girl, Tina Armstrong for Eaglelander, etc.), only to have them come to life in response to a wish on his part? Or from invoking Anthropomorphic Personification on the character's "ideal image" of each of the aforementioned ethnicities/nationalities?

edited 20th Jan '12 4:46:06 PM by MarqFJA

The tropes you mention aren't "archetypes from all over the world." They're concepts American media apply to cultures all over the world. Be careful.

Sexism comes into play with the entire concept of "nerdy loser guy creates women specifically to romantically and sexually please him" and all the implications that entails.

Racism should be patently obvious with boiling people down to stark representations of actual, bad national stereotypes...

I still want that explanation. Because it offends me personally.

(Yeesh, slow down, will you? Got ninja'd twice already!)

They don't follow the stereotypes as closely as I appear to have accidentally implied, especially on the negative aspects.

Because she represents a Soviet-era KGB/GRU spy-assassin (with a tragic Dark and Troubled Past, though; she's not introduced in-story until considerably later, and even then she's chronologically been operating for several years in-universe), and thus her portfolio includes Master of Disguise, Honey Trap, Professional Killer, Exalted Torturer, Dominatrix, and all the other dirty stuff that no one else in the team can stomach doing, even though the Darker and Edgier and Bloodier and Gorier nature of the setting would ultimately require resorting to some or all aforementioned methods just to survive, let alone stop the Ultimate Evil from bringing about The End of the World as We Know It.

And the protagonist more or less accepts her as she is, BTW.

Yeah, I know. Problem is, they're the only ones that seem to be widely-known AFAIK.

edited 20th Jan '12 4:52:03 PM by MarqFJA

But why does she have to be the only evil one? When you're making characters based on national stereotypes, making either one of them evil, when the others are good, is racist.

She's not the only evil/antagonistic one. As I imagine her right now, Sixth Ranger #1 comes close to killing the core five members several times, with only luck saving their hides, and I am currently labelling her as British. Both her and Sixth Ranger #2 make an eventual Heel–Face Turn, anyway.

And "evil" doesn't mean "Pure Evil" (aka Complete Monster); there are such things as Evil Virtues, and her Heel–Face Turn is caused by the Evil Virtue of Love - though our protagonist will have to get accustomed to her initial Yandere tendencies.

Also, from Token Evil Teammate's own article...

See also Sociopathic Hero, Poisonous Friend, Villain Protagonist, Even Evil Has Standards, and Black-and-Grey Morality.

edited 20th Jan '12 5:00:10 PM by MarqFJA

So, racism is fine if multiplied by two?

These are dangerous grounds you are threading on. It's a story with characters built on national stereotypes. Then - SURPRISE! - some of them turn out to be evil! You realize that this implies that the RL nation the character is based on is evil?

And it doesn't matter how evil. They're still portrayed as evil, and my point stands.

edited 20th Jan '12 5:02:46 PM by MilosStefanovic

Ninja'd.

Marq, there's an argument that gets raised a lot whenever you describe your premises, but it's seldom articulated comprehensively. I think I've finally found a way to explain it.

I recently posted a story that involves creatures created from the souls of the dead, which live off of human emotions. The "greater" variety come into existence naturally from the souls of the most evil humans, and they in turn have the power to create their "lesser" varieties from souls filled with guilt, binding them to eternal servitude. I call these creatures "demons," since that's the word that fits them best, but they're a unique mishmash that I'd like to think is interesting.

I get the impression that were you to write a story about demons, you'd start with the classical description of demons, then add one or two traits to make them slightly more original. That's not so bad if you just do it sometimes, but so far as I can tell, this is your technique for everything—settings, plots, even characters. You're not going to create interesting ideas through minor changes.

As for the scientist character, that could also solve your lack of Indian or Middle Eastern character, as the Middle East in particular is responsible for a lot of technology.

That isn't helping with the stereotypes problem. At all.

Can you give me a rough estimate of how many Multinational Teams / Five Token Bands in fiction don't use at least some national stereotypes, whether good or bad?

Good point. That approach, however, doesn't leave much room for comedic Mad Scientist moments, right?

Just to be clear before I respond to that, are you including older premises that I've brought up much earlier (as in, no later than mid-last year), or are you only talking about the recent ones that I brought up on the Random Questions Thread this month?

edited 20th Jan '12 6:27:42 PM by MarqFJA

I know, I know. I really don't like all the stereotypes being used, just saying.