Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Jim, Guru
Lies and Violence!
Bon Clay, Grid Core, Jim, and Guru. No to Kelly and Bishop.
What's the work?
Star Wars. You all know it. It also has a bunch of tie-in comics. Most important for today are Star Wars (Marvel 2015) and Darth Vader (2015), which cover the events between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back as the Rebel Alliance tries to build on the momentum of the destruction of the Death Star.
- The youngest daughter of the king of Shu-Torun, a hostile Death World populated by underground mining cities. Trios is the least favored of her siblings, which means bad things for her when her father decides to assassinate Vader. Trios is chosen to escort the Sith around their palace, knowing full well she may get killed—whether as collateral damage in the assassination plot, or by Vader himself.
- Vader of course survives and kills the king, along with Trios' siblings... but not Trios herself. Instead, he crowns her the new queen of Shu-Torun and leaves her with a gift. A piece of Alderaan, a reminder of what happens to those who disappoint the Empire.
- Surprisingly, this only serves to harden Trios' character, as she becomes resolved to live up to the Empire's expectations and ensure her people's survival. When some minor nobles on the planet break out in rebellion, Trios personally takes to the field to help Vader put them down—though Vader falls into a trap along the way, Trios recognizes that it's diverted the opposing force's attention and leaps at the chance to simultaneously cripple her enemies and earn her people's respect for her strength, even killing her own chancellor when he tries to bring her to safety. With the rebel nobles captured, Trios has them all executed and replaced—but by their youngest children, rather than the appropriate heirs. Trios has learned well from the lessons Vader inadvertently taught her:
Trios: "I've found inexperienced youths not expecting power the most easy to manipulate, Lord Vader."
- Later, the Empire intends to further defile the moon of Jedha—where, in Rogue One, the Death Star was used to destroy a city, cracking the moon in half and sending it into a slow death. Specifically, they're after all the Kyber crystal shipments stolen by Saw Gerrera's extremist Partisans over the years. Vader instructs Trios to oversee this operation... and then completely sabotage their operations by helping the Rebels. Rather than continue stamping out small fires, the Sith Lord intends to allow them to gain in strength, to build a centralized armada. He commands Trios to infiltrate the rebels and help them accomplish this, so that once they've all assembled in one place to celebrate their victory, they can then be brutally snuffed out. If she refuses? Well, she still has that piece of Alderaan...
- One of her guards protests the blatant threat, resulting in Trios coldly gunning him down to ensure Vader doesn't massacre the room in retaliation... only to belatedly realize he was going to do that anyway to ensure there are no witnesses to their plot. To which she responds by smiling sadly, calmly sitting down, and helping herself to some wine.
Trios: "Oh, I am a fool. Lord Vader, please. Be my guest."Vader (later): "I trust they were expendable."Trios (drenched in blood, steel in her eyes): "Lord Vader. As long as Shu-Torun lives, everyone is expendable."
- Trios performs wonderfully. Arriving at Jedha, she quickly charms the murder-happy commander in charge, Kanchar, and releases one of her people's city-sized fortress drills—a massive investment of resources that convinces Kanchar of her loyalty. But not before dropping this awesome line, when Kanchar laments the incompetence of his minions compared to the ruthless quality of the Partisans.
Kanchar: "Bloody fools. I'm trying to bring order to the galaxy with an army of white-clad clowns and clerks in caps. Where can I find my Saw Gerrera, Your Majesty?"Trios: "Please. Call me Trios."
- Further, the sacrifice of the drill also convinces the Rebels of her loyalty to their cause when she leaks its blueprints to help sabotage it, meeting with Leia on the drill itself. Trios has Leia pretend to punch her so she can "accidentally" shoot out Kanchar’s cameras as she falls, then proposes an alliance. Leia accepts and Trios helps her escape as the drill is destroyed, before committing her forces to begin smuggling supplies for an armada to the Rebel Alliance. It's slow-going—Trios is thorough in both both security and secrecy, much to Ackbar's frustration—but Trios quickly proves invaluable in secretly providing resources and Imperial information.
- Case in point, Leia wants to rescue King Lee-Char, the imprisoned ruler of the occupied planet of Mon Cala. Trios provides the king's location and security codes to the prison, then helps drug and kidnap an Imperial moff they use to get in the prison. The rebels also hire a shapeshifter to impersonate the moff while he's missing, with Trios helping smooth over a few errors in his "acting."
- Sure enough, Trios becomes trusted enough that she's invited to the Rebels' celebration of the armada's completion. Everyone is there, a massive collection of rebel cells. And as they party... Trios slips away, sabotages all the ships so they're sitting ducks, and calls Vader and a fleet of Star Destroyers. Unfortunately for Trios, the Rebels catch on to the fact that this is all her fault earlier than expected and prevent her personal ship from leaving. She manages to get to an escape pod, and the Rebels are ravaged, but Leia manages to hack into a lot of files from Trios' ship before making her escape. And after a few side adventures where the core 6 Rebel heroes are left isolated and have to slowly make their way back to the rest of the crippled Alliance, Leia begins planning revenge.
- Shu-Torun, as mentioned above, is a Death World. The environment is kept in check by a massive fortress called the Spike, while the planet's security is controlled at Trios' palace. Leia leads a two-pronged infiltration—she and the Rebels take over the palace, locking down everything on the planet... including the Spike's private army. The Partisans will proceed to take over the Spike (though with the intent to only cause enough damage to mess with their mining and economy, not destroy the entire planet). Unfortunately, the Partisans... look, they're a group founded by Saw Gerrera. Do I really need to say it? The sabotage the mission and set the Spike to make the planet a new Alderaan.
- Trios realizes too late what has happened, but manages to brute force her way through the security lockdown and personally leads a group of guards to take back the palace—she quickly puts together what happened to the Spike's army, and while freeing the Spike is more important, it would be easier to just retake control of global security and remotely release the army to handle that rather than besiege the now enemy-controlled fortress. Though Leia's set up defenses, Trios just uses her ship to ram through them... only for Kanchar to begin bombing the palace in order to kill Leia, refusing to relent even upon learning of Trios' presence out of petty revenge for being used as an oblivious pawn for her and Vader's plan during Jedha.
- Trios continues undeterred from her mission, fully willing to die if it means saving her planet. She and Leia fight, Leia lays a fatal blow, and an enraged Trios informs her of the Partisans' plans, before... sort of reconciling as she dies?
Trios: "All I did was to save Shu-Torun... but I have led them to this. I know... this is my fault. I have shamed... doomed my line, and I go to the grave knowing this. It would have been better if I died with my family. If I had, my world would live. I'm dying. This world should not die with its queen. It..."Leia: "It won't happen, Trios. I won't let it happen."Trios: "I believe you. I'm sorry you believed me. I..."
- Fortunately, Leia lives up to her promise and convinces the Partisans to de-escalate. They escape, and Vader kills Kanchar for his incompetence.
- Easily one of my favorite new characters from the comics. Trios starts out an inexperienced young girl thrust into power, but quickly proves herself worth that power when she expertly helps Vader handle the rebellion, recognizing the tactics he used to ensnare her into the Empire's service and twisting them to ensure her own uncontested rule.
- Her mission to infiltrate the rebellion works like a charm; she and Vader are explicitly the only ones allowed to know of the plot, yet she's able to play rebel and imperial alike to ensure the former's victories, before setting them all to up be butchered. Even when Leia gets revenge and catches her on the backfoot, Trios quickly deduces what they've done and strikes back, ultimately only losing because her bloodthirsty ally forces her to take desperate, risky actions and force a confrontation before he can bomb them to oblivion. That desperation is clearly visible throughout the event—Trios notably pulls a gun on a panicking noble in frustration—but it remains restrained and focused anger, and... well, when you're under the impression that Princess Leia of Alderaan is trying to blow up your home planet just to spite you (she's yet unaware that the Partisans are going off plan), you'd probably be understandably appalled and pissed at the hypocrisy too.
- Ultimately, Trios is incredibly sympathetic, despite the mass death she causes. It's clear she's stuck between a rock and an evil galactic empire that destroys planets; though she laments her actions causing a chain of events that result in the planet's seemingly imminent destruction, she did the best she could to ensure Shu-Torun's survival, while remaining empathetic to the lives she's betrayed and ruined. But at the end of the day, everyone is expendable when it comes to saving her people... even, as she admits without a second of hesitation, herself.
- To be clear: Trios is not here by her own free will. She hates working for the Empire, and wants to get as far away from all these nutjobs as feasibly possible.
- With that said? Holy shit, she is cold. She resents doing the Empire's dirty work and clearly despairs over the death she causes, but at the end of the day she steels herself and goes all in, killing whoever she has to and how ever many she needs with no hesitation or regret, so long as it benefits her people and ensures their survival. Tragic Villain Trapped in Villainy she may be, but she has no qualms about doing whatever is necessary to see Shu-Torun persevere.
Not the Eye
Happy Queen Trios
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Bishop
Here’s the writeup for Patrick Bell.
- Saxby Smart: The Eye of the Serpent: Patrick Bell, appearing in the story The Ghost at the Window, is the father of the story’s client and a professional thief who eluded the law for years with his sheer ingenuity. Known as the ‘Mad Hatter’ due to him leaving origami hats at the scene of every crime, Patrick executed a series of increasingly audacious heists, crafting brilliant disguises for his schemes and even managing to pass himself off as an undercover cop on one occasion. Faking his death to escape justice after his wife gave his identity to the police, Patrick came to regret abandoning her and their daughter and posed as their neighbour so he could see them again. Patrick then commits one last masterful theft, hacking into the office computer of a building company and transferring £700 to an untraceable account, before making off with an even larger amount of money concealed inside a fake stomach. Found out by Saxby following this crime, Patrick decides to turn himself in, promising his family that he’ll start a new life upon his release.
Edited by TheLaurelCrownedRaven on Sep 5th 2023 at 1:14:38 PM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Queen Trios.
Gaspar's write up.
- Ocean's Twelve: Gaspar LeMarque is a world famous thief who once pulled off the impossible task of stealing the Fabergé Coronation Egg after 23 others had tried and failed, only returning it on the request of his wife. Faking his death and going into retirement, LeMarque taught François Toulour everything he needed to become the equally famous "Night Fox". When Danny Ocean comes to him for help dealing with Toulour, LeMarque agrees to help them out of disgust with Toulour's petty deeds, telling them exactly how to steal the Egg before Toulour even challenges them and advising them to act like everything is going wrong as Toulour will be spying on them. Getting the last laugh on his petty student, LeMarque has Rusty both reunite him with his daughter and deliver him the treasure he had to return all of those years ago.
Goku Black
Tiros
Stumbled upon this AI short film on youtube, and I think the villain protagonist tentatively keeps.
What’s the Work?
The Mass is a AI-assisted short film created by indie filmmaker Matt Mayle. It follows the titular mass, a yellow blob from outer space, as it narrates the story of how it consumes Earth.
Whose the Character?
The Mass is an enigmatic lifeform that was formed from outer space and sought refuge on Earth. The thing first settles in a cave, but is later discovered by humans, who were fascinated by its behavior. The Mass is then placed in an art exhibit, being marketed as a living “work of art.” Eventually, people begin obsessed with growing it. The Mass takes advantage of this, manipulating humans into furthering its expansion. Eventually, the Mass’ growth became too much for humans to control, and it breaks out of the art exhibit. Soon, it began engulfing cities, before moving on to ecosystems. As it continued its expansion, it begins to appreciate the wonderous nature of the Earth it’s consuming, taking note of the vibrancy of the oceans and the diversity of the landscapes. Eventually, it finishes its consumption of Earth, absorbing the vast knowledge within it. The Mass ends the film eager to explore the universe, awaiting the splendors it will find.
Magnificence?
I’d say so, it manipulates humans into continuing its growth, allowing it to succeed in engulfing the world. In spite of this, the Mass is strangely affable, complimenting the beauteous wildlife it finds during its expansion. It also has a pretty cool, sophisticated voice, so there’s that.
Baddie?
Now here’s where things get tricky…
Now, the Mass does consumes the Earth, and the ending implies that it will go on to consume more worlds afterwards; however, the Mass is never overtly sadistic about it, instead appreciating the various wonders that it will soon become a part of. It’s also arguably an extremist, as its reason for consuming worlds is so it can acquire knowledge about the fascinating universe around it.
Verdict? Tentative yes, but just like last time, it’s all up to you to decide!
Edited by RhinoBeloved2 on Sep 5th 2023 at 9:53:20 AM
to Trios, Tentative to the mass
to Queen Trios and The Mass.
Are there any more Sly Cooper candidates left? Just curious.
Ninja Gamer Writer
There might be more candidates for Sly Cooper. In any case, here is my latest MB EP
Fontaine is now out in Genshin and the cast is amazing so far. Wouldn't you know it? The first playable five star from Fontaine stood out to me.
What's the Work?
Genshin Impact is a game by Hoyoverse about a traveler on a journey to save their sibling. (It feels like I use this description a lot)
Who is Lyney? What does he do?
Fontaine is the land of the Hydro Archon. There, law is taken somewhat seriously... and by that, I mean they have their trials presented on stage with an audience like some sort of entertainment... so yeah. That doesn't sound very serious.
Entertainment is a big deal in Fontaine, and one of the most popular forms of entertainment comes for Fontaine's local magician, Lyney (who is often accompanied by her sister Lynette who serves as his assistant). However, as popular as they are, they didn't exactly have the easiest of lives.
When they were kids, Lyney and Lynette were orphans on the streets having to steal to survive. They eventually learned magic from a man named Cesar, who showed concern for them in the ten days he knew them for. Lyney and Lynette looked up to him... but Cesar ended up getting killed in an accident when a dangerous magic trick goes wrong and exposed as a thief known as the Phantom Weasel. However, they were soon separated by a greedy noble who only kept Lyney for his talent in magic while giving Lynette away to Human Traffickers. Naturally, Lyney did not tolerate this and went to save his sister.
This act would result in the two of them becoming part of the House of the Hearth, which is a division of the Fatui. From there, the two of them were given various tasks to carry out, eventually leading to Lynette gaining a vision. However, Lyney was not too happy about gaining this power as it meant he and Lynette had to split up on separate missions. He even tried to get a delusion in order to narrow the gap in their powers, but was rejected while being told he needed to discover himself. Eventually, A botched mission puts Lynette in danger, prompting Lyney to spring to her protection, resulting in him getting a vision of his own.
Sometime later, Lyney and Lynette would meet the Traveler and Paimon the moment the duo arrive in Fontaine. He greets them personally, shaking the Traveller's hand and giving Paimon a pat on the back. However, this was a trick as the moment the Hydro Archon Furina presents herself, she declares the Traveler and Paimon criminals for releasing a flying object on the first days of the month (said flying object being Paimon). However, Lyney has them covered by revealing the trick he pulled on them, having attached a string to them to make Paimon look like a ballon and thus not a flying object, getting them off the hook.
After that, he begins to give them a tour of Fontaine, only having a brief pause when they notice a thief. While they recover the good said thief dropped, the thief got away.
Eventually, Lyney invites the Traveler to see one of his shows. There he performs where he and a volunteer from the audience enter two different boxes on seperate sides of the room. The intent is that they would switch places upon entering, even making it appear as if Lyney slips up by exiting his box too early so as to further give the guise of the illusion (in actuallity, the Lyney popping out in this moment was actually Lynette). However, the trick goes wrong as the tank from an earlier trick comes crashing down, killing one one of the stage assistants, name Cowell. The volunteer ends up being missing. With the missing volunteer being female, Lyney is accused of being the culprit in a case regarding similar disappearances along with killing Cowell.
Lyney chooses to have the Traveler defend him... but it turns out that Furina is well aware of his background and reveals his Fatui connections, forcing Lyney to come clean to the now skepticle Traveler. While he does live to the code that a good magician never reveals their secrets, he does understand that exceptions have to be made and allows the Traveler and the court to investigate to clear his name. Eventually, it is revealed that the missing volunteer Halsey is actually the thief from earlier, her real name being Liliane.
Not only that, but it turns out that Cowell was and unintented kill as he had tried to dissolve Liliane using primordial water (failing due to Liliane not actually being a Fontaine native) and was forced into the box that led to his death.
While Lyney is grateful for the Traveler clearing him, he also shows to understand that the Traveler doesn't trust him and hopes the two of them can become friends again.
Later, word gets out that the Phantom Weasel is active again on account of a flyer saying they would strike during one of Lyney's shows. When the Traveler confronts Lyney about it, Lyney claims the Phantom Weasel to be challenging him, and the two of them work together to find who the Phantom Weasel is. Lyney explains how Cesar was accused in the past and how he hopes to clear his name.
Eventually, the truth comes out when they find proof that Cesar's former apprentice Lorenzo is the Phantom Weasel, and they have him arrested... except that was also not the case. Turns out, Cesar's fiance is actually the Weasel and Lyney was the one who wrote the note to lure her out of hiding. He even knows that she actually did love Lorenzo and puts her in a position to choose between keeping everything she gained while being without Lorenzo or giving it all up and turning herself in to be with Lorenzo. In the end, Jemma confessed to her crimes, and thus, Lyney manages to successfully avenge Cesar with the Traveler's help.
Is He Magnificent?
He is a master magician who is able to pinpoint skilled thieves as he managed to effortlessly deduce Liliane and Jemma as the culprits behind thefts while also figuring out that Lorenzo was Jemma's accomplice covering for her.
He also managed to hide the fact that he was fatui rather well. It isn't his fault that thr court exposed that detail. Even then, he makes it clear the reason he hid such a detail, and his reason proves valid as the Traveler immediately stops trusting him, and just to remind you, the Traveler immediately didn't trust Tartaglia for being Fatui, and Tartaglia was actually open about it.
Is He a Bastard?
At first he comes off as a nice guy who doesn't have anything to call him a bastard. However, keep in mind that he and his sister Lynette are a part of the Fatui which is a global criminal organization, and it is established that he and Lynette have partaken in some Fatui related crimes. Granted though, he doesn't do anything horrible onscreen.
If that isn't enough to consider him Baddie though, there is the whole ordeal with his story quest. He plays off the Phantom Weasel note as somebody challenging him. However, it is revealed that he was the one who planted that note in order to lure the real Phantom Weasel out of hiding, which is entrapment (which itself is a crime in some places). Again though, he did this to catch an actually bad person, so he still isn't too much of a bastard.
Verdict
to this brilliant magician.
Edited by Zerukin on Sep 5th 2023 at 12:25:42 PM
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Queen Trios and the Mass, I think. Need time to read ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And yeah, there's several more Sly Cooper candidates, as I mentioned in Bentley's EP. Lightysnake is doing a reproposal for Sly himself, Scraggle has one or two, and I've got a couple more in mind, as well. Just need time to get to 'em.
- Red (2010):
- Both films:
- Frank Moses is a former CIA black ops agent, considered one of the most deadly, efficient, successful operatives the agency ever had. When he comes under attack in his retirement, Frank expertly kills off the wetwork team sent to eliminate him and tracks down his old allies to discover the truth behind RED agents being targeted. Simultaneously saving the life of and romancing Sarah, Frank infiltrates the CIA itself to trace all roads back to the Vice President, staging a daring kidnapping of the VP that exposes the assassination plot. Frank later works with his team to evade capture when they are implicated in the location of the Nightshade bomb, and he not only breaks into the Kremlin, but also one of MI6's most secure facilities. Though betrayed and left for dead by the clever Edward Bailey, Frank ultimately outwits Bailey and kills the madman with his own bomb, saving London and leaving his team able to embark on another adventure.
- Marvin Boggs is a highly-skilled, paranoid killer who is often proven completely right in his conspiracy theories. Having disappeared off the grid and avoided government detection for years, Marvin comes out of hiding to help Frank uncover the assassination plot of RED agents. Marvin routinely exposes government agents trying to track or spy on the team, and uses his seemingly-unstable methods to routinely help Frank's team pull off difficult maneuvers. In just one notable instance, he deduces a helicopter to be following Frank, discovers a seeming civilian to be a spy, and causes a missile to explode back on its launcher with a single bullet. Faking his death when he is falsely implicated in the Nightshade plot, Marvin extorts information out of a military officer and saves Frank from police custody, working with his best friend to take down Edward Bailey and save the world.
- Victoria Wilton is an expert sniper who has refused to retire, instead hiring herself out as a contract killer. When she is approached by Frank, Victoria agrees to an alliance for old times' sake, staking out and gunning down multiple federal agents to cover Frank's infiltration and escape from a secure location. Victoria uses her looks, hidden weapons, and a gigantic artillery gun to wreak havoc at the Vice President's gala to help Frank kidnap him, exposing the corrupt VP and saving fellow RED agents. Continuing her successful career as an assassin, Victoria pretends to accept a contract on Frank simply to help him fake his death and avoid pursuers when he is framed. Victoria's firearm expertise and tactical advice proves invaluable as Frank infiltrates the Iranian embassy, and her efforts help to stop Nightshade from killing millions.
- Ivan Simanov is a jovial ex-FSB agent who yearns for the thrill of the old days. Agreeing to help Frank infiltrate the CIA in exchange for a favor, Ivan later swoops in and saves Frank's team from gunfire. He plays a part in the raid of the Vice President's gala by bombing a limo, and once the VP's corruption is exposed, Ivan gets Frank to carry out the favor he owes. When Frank and his team begin investigating Nightshade, Ivan helps smuggle them into Russia and break into the Kremlin, then works with Victoria to save Frank from government-sanctioned execution. Ivan does all of it for fun and the love of Victoria, and sends Frank on his way with valuable intel that helps stop Bailey's scheme.
- Red 2:
- Edward Bailey himself is a brilliant scientist who created the Nightshade bomb in the Cold War, only to be locked up by MI6 when he tried to detonate it in Russia. After his wife and son die, implied to be due to MI6, Bailey plots revenge for decades and kicks the sequel off by stealing a guard's phone and using it to leak a document that frames Frank's team as knowing Nightshade's hidden location. Bailey uses this document and other breadcrumbs to lure Frank into breaking him out of imprisonment, pretending to be completely off his rocker as he helps Frank break into the Kremlin and find where Bailey hid Nightshade: right under Russia's nose in the heart of the Kremlin. Then betraying Frank to the CIA, Bailey uses hidden nerve gas to kill his CIA handlers and reveal his true intention to set off Nightshade in London as revenge for his family's death. Even when he's outwitted by Frank and about to die, Bailey just chuckles that he "didn't see that one coming."
- Han Cho Bai is the "best contract killer in the world", a former Korean counterintelligence agent who now hires himself out for his services. In his introduction, Han meets with a client who wants to hire him to kill a target, only for Han to reveal the target already paid him to assassinate the client, who Han stealthily kills with nothing but a folded slip of paper. Dispatched to kill Frank and his team, Han hunts them across the globe and uses everything from ambushes to a minigun to nearly kill Frank time and time again. Even when handcuffed to a freezer door, Han easily beats down an entire squad of police to continue his pursuit of Frank. Despite their rivalry, Han puts aside the contract for Frank to team with him in stopping Bailey's scheme, with Han personally working with Victoria to take down several enemy vehicles with style.
- Both films:
Edited by Ravok on Sep 5th 2023 at 12:32:41 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Trios, Lyney. Unsure about the Mass.
I have a character from one of my family's all-time favorite movies, though I realize he is likely to be downvoted. However, after I read the EP on Frank Moses, I decided to try it after all.
Nathan Muir, Spy Game.
The Work
Spy Game is a 2001 spy film directed by Tony Scott.The Character
Nathan Muir is a brilliant CIA operative, who, on the last day before his retirement, learns that his protégé and former friend Tom Bishop was arrested in China for an attempted prison break. It wasn't an approved operation: Bishop was trying to rescue his love interest Elizabeth Hadley, who was put there thanks to Muir.Their first falling-out that we know of happened in Germany, where Bishop was to drive an informant called Schmidt from East Berlin across the Berlin Wall. It turned out that the purpose of the operation was to lure out a double agent at the American embassy: Muir called Bishop to leave Schmidt to his fate in the end, and Schmidt gets executed for his spying. Bishop is furious, and Muir is furious too because Bishop questioned his decision and nearly caused the operation to fail. By the way, says Muir, Schmidt was a traitor. We never learn if it was true. (The double agent from the embassy, two months afterwards, is beaten to death, and the case is never solved - it's implied Muir and/or Bishop could be behind it).
Then, in Beirut, they plan to assassinate extremely dangerous and extremely paranoid Sheikh Salamei. He needs to appear to die a natural death; purely as a backup the CIA orders Muir to secure the help of a group of suicide bombers. Bishop contact the sheikh's doctor and cousin Ahmed, and Muir manages to persuade him to assassinate the sheikh by claiming the latter killed Ahmed's parents. We never learn if it was true.
Problem is, Bishop falls in love with a refugee camp worker Elizabeth Hadley, via whom he met the doctor. Muir mistrusts her and tells Bishop she was exiled from the UK, resulting in a falling-out between her and Bishop - but Bishop later reconciles with her. On the very day the sheikh's physical (and assassination) is scheduled, the refugee camp is shelled and Bishop lets the doctor go there. Though he attempts to bring him to the sheikh's apartments in time, he is too late, and Muir sends the suicide bombers who blow up the apartment building... and several more around it, since they miscalculated the amount of explosives.
Bishop stops working with Muir and ends their friendship.
Muir negotiates with the Chinese to get Hadley jailed (her group in the UK bombed a Chinese building there which was supposed to be empty), and a Dear John letter is forged for Bishop to find.
In the present, Muir learns that Bishop was classified as a common criminal and will be shot in 24 hours - unless the CIA says he is their man and negotiates a deal. At the CIA, the executives ask Muir about his history with Bishop while really trying to find a reason to leave him to die (e.g. that his sniper kills in the Vietnam War weren't authorized by a presidential finding).
Muir reaches out CNN and makes sure the story makes the news, so that it would force the agency to negotiate. However, the executives make sure that the story of Bishop's capture is "confirmed" to be a hoax.
Feeling guilty about Bishop, Muir decides to get him out by himself. Purely by assuming a personable manner and inviting one of the executives to his (nonexistent) retirement dinner, he finds out details about a SEAL military unit stationed in China. By pretending to forget his cigarettes, he gets another employee to go fetch them and leave classified files, including a satellite picture of the Chinese coastline, unattended. Muir substitutes the picture of China with a picture of the Bahamas, where he was planning to buy an estate for his retirement.
He forges the CIA director's signature (from a letter of thanks he received only that morning) and writes an order for "Operation Dinner Out" - a thirty-minute complete blackout in Su Chou and, in the meantime, the rescue of Bishop and Hadley by the SEAL unit. To arrange for the blackout, Muir spends all of his savings.
He confirms the operation is a go right in front of the executives by pretending to speak to his wife who is planning a retirement dinner.
Bishop and Hadley are rescued and are on their way to the US. When Bishop hears "Operation Dinner Out" (it was a joke between him and Muir), he realizes who is behind the rescue.
Muir is almost caught by his colleagues. But he claims he was simply using the company's satellites to gather information about his retirement estate in the Bahamas (remember his picture of the Bahamas' coastline).
Only after he leaves the CIA for good, the executives find out that a) that he is divorced and there was no dinner-planning wife b) that... "there's been an incident. In China". Muir is driving safely away, and it's implied he is going to get away with everything because the Chinese don't want a major quarrel with the States.
Is he magnificent?
He is Crazy-Prepared, with brilliant Sherlock Scan abilities, and also a personable and friendly man who easily gains the trusts of assets and many of his own coworkers.He outwits the rest of the CIA and gets Bishop and Hadley rescued. Before that, he used to be a highly successful operative...
Is he a bastard?
...however, the elephant in the room is obviously the storyline with the suicide bombers. Muir stresses that it was not a real option up until Bishop let the doctor leave, and it was a matter of Lesser of Two Evils since the sheikh was happily ordering mass murders of civilians, but it was still a suicide bombing with plenty of casualties.We also never know if Muir was telling the truth about Schmidt being a spy and about the doctor's parents being killed.
He got Hadley imprisoned, but she was far from blameless, having taking part in a bombing (she said the building was supposed to be empty, and she is clearly feeling guilty and apparently trying to atone by helping the refugees - but still).
He told Bishop never to risk his life or his career for an asset... although, when the time comes, it looks like he feels guilty about that outlook as he risks his career at the least in organizing Bishop and Hadley's rescue.
Conclusion?
You decide. I'm still leaning towards yes.
Goku Black
Miur
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Not the Eye
Lies and Violence!
Mass and Muir, but unsure on Lyney. The Fatui thing sounds like the only thing that makes him bad enough, but it's not focused on all that much and—from what I understand, correct me if I'm wrong—they got forced into helping them.
to Lyney. He doesn't really do anything morally wrong, as the proposal seems to erroneously equate illegal with immoral, and even without that, his performance was intercepted by Cowell without his knowledge.
to Lyney. Looks too morally white.
Honestly I'm very iffy with Magnificent Bastards on things like Genshin and Blue Archive just like I do with CMs on similar works.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Sep 5th 2023 at 11:45:17 PM
Gotta love Jaws!
to Trios, The Mass and Muir.
Abstain on Lyney.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Yes to Jim, Guru, Queen Trios and Muir.
No to Bishop and Lyney.
Abstain on the Mass.
Edited by Overlord on Sep 6th 2023 at 3:35:13 AM
Yes to the Mass and Muir. Talia would make the fifth EP on the page, so by the rules you'll have to wait until a new one, though just bumping a few times would work.
Here's the write up for Bon Clay. I say put him right under Crocodile.
- One Piece: Mr. 2 Bon Clay is a friendly and eccentric crossdresser whose camp mannerisms belie a fierce warrior and cunning shapeshifter. Bon Clay earned his position in Crocodile's Baroques Work by using his clone clone fruit to physically change into anyone he touches and ignites a civil war in Alabasta by impersonating the innocent King Cobra. Becoming a fast friend of the Straw Hats despite being foes, Bon Clay disguises himself and his crew as the Straw Hats to distract the Marines and allow them to escape Alabasta. Arrested and thrown into Impel Down, he is freed during Luffy's break in and ambushes the perverted Vice Warden with a female form to take his own form to sneak further in to save a dying Luffy. Ultimately helping in the final mass breakout, Bon Clay stays behind to take on the form of Warden Magellan to ensure his friends' ship can escape and bids a tearful farewell to Luffy while embracing his final sacrifice.
Sure to Mass and Muir
Suggesting two possible images for the Music Meister from Batman: The Brave and the Bold
RIP Toriyama
Love 'em, Snowy! Leaning Nay on Lyney.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Rejected UAC Marine
Here's Griddle. After rewatching the cutscenes I decided to refer to it as he/him as that's what the group refers it to (at least the Professor and Helga do anyway).
- Ape Escape: Pumped & Primed: Grid Core is a malignant Artificial Intelligence with ambitions of dominating both the virtual world and the real world beyond. He does so by deploying the enigmatic Pipotron trio to find a disk that contains the means to take full control of the virtual world, soon acquiring it through the Pipotrons entering the High-Tech Tournament. Moments later, Grid Core praises, then discharges the Pipotrons, and immediately begins analyzing the disk. Meanwhile, he leaves the Pipotrons and the heroes to partake in his "Virus-Tech Tournament", pitting them against powerful enemies such as the Super Pipotrons and the supercharged Dark Jake and Dark Specter. When deprived of options, Grid Core promptly chooses to battle his foes himself, using the full power of the virtual world to his advantage, and complimenting his opponents' power as they fight him. Programmed with Pragmatic Villainy in mind yet joyously relishing every step of his plan, Grid Core proves himself a remarkably cunning and competent antagonist in this otherwise lighthearted franchise.
A small addendum by the way in case anyone mentions it: some sources refer to Mystery Man/Nazo and Grid as one and the same, but while they share Japanese voice actors, it's never directly stated that they're the same character, even in whatever I could find in Million Monkeys. Plus, Grid is shown to be yelling in agony whilst dying at the end of P&P, which wouldn't make much sense if that were Nazo himself (a mortal human who exists in the real world), not to mention that one of his dying words are "My mission!" implying he was working under orders. So I see it a safe guess that they are different entities
Edited by ImSpidey2 on Sep 6th 2023 at 6:09:08 AM
That being said, I have no source.