Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Sure to the demon lord
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Still gotta figure out the order of the Rise of the Beasts tree by the way.
In the meantime, the writeups since Bull and I don't know when the next collab after these will go up:
- Shanghai Noon duology:
- First film: Lo Fong is an ill-tempered Chinese insurgent seeking to avenge himself when cast out as a traitor and conducts slavery as a means of business. To this end, he has Princess Pei-Pei abducted in order to force Imperial Guard Chon Wang into a fight for her life—while Lo Fong impedes his efforts to make it to said fight and cuts off his ponytail to dishonor him and prevent him from returning home as well. Lo Fong's own slaves also prove to not in any way be safe from his rage and ruthlessness as well—as on more than one occasion, he brutally executes them for any kinds of failures.
- Shanghai Knights:
- Lord Nelson Rathbone is a British Royal seeking the crown of England for himself. Rathbone to further this end has stolen the Seal of China and murdered Chon and his sister Lin's father who was the Keeper—and has both Chon and Roy O'Bannon subjected to torture as well as antagonizes Chon in a sword fight later too. Rathbone allies with Wu Chow—who wants the Seal to get control in China—and intends to arrange a mass shooting with him that'll wipe out all nine of the Royals in the line of succession and thus make him the King as a result.
- Wu Chow himself is the illegitimate brother of the Emperor of China. Wanting to take power in China and by doing so eventually take full control, Wu Chow hires Rathbone to break in to steal the Seal of China while killing the Keeper. Once Wu Chow then gets the Seal from Rathbone, he intends to kill the Royal Family with a Gatling gun and deliver Rathbone the crown as payment—and fights and tries to kill Lin for her interference in the process.
The last two as a duo if anyone has thoughts as to whether or not they should be separate:
- Shanghai Knights: Lord Nelson Rathbone and Wu Chow join forces in their efforts to conquer both England and China respectively. Rathbone, a British Royal, steals the Seal of China for Wu Chow, the illegitimate brother of the Emperor of China, on his behalf while murdering the Keeper—Chon and his sister Lin's father—in the process—with Rathbone torturing both Chon and Roy O'Bannon and tormenting Chon in a sword fight too. Wu Chow wants the Seal as a means of taking both power and control in China and in exchange for it, Wu Chow offers to use a Gatling gun to wipe out the nine Royals in the line of succession so that Rathbone will get the crown and become King of England—while fighting and trying to kill Lin for interfering too.
@ACW Any chance these can go into the current batch?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
demon lord
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Separate entries, they are a Big Bad Duumvirate, but they are independant enough of each other
Watch me destroying my country
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Demon Lord
Echoing the sentiment on having them as separate entries.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Apologies if this is a double post but are folks alright with me posting my Unicron entry early? I'm heading back home for the day since there's been an incident with my mother needing a brain MRI scan and some other health issues so I'm being there for moral support.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Best wishes to your mother Wet. Sorry to hear that.
Separately it is. Slight corrections to Lo Fong (specifically how the slaves constantly face his wrath and how it's his own henchmen he kills). Thank you Bull:
- First film: Lo Fong is an ill-tempered Chinese insurgent seeking to avenge himself when cast out as a traitor and conducts slavery as a means of business—subjecting them to horrible abuses as well. To this end, he has Princess Pei-Pei abducted in order to force Imperial Guard Chon Wang into a fight for her life—while Lo Fong impedes his efforts to make it to said fight and cuts off his ponytail to dishonor him and prevent him from returning home as well. Lo Fong's own men also prove to not in any way be safe from his rage and ruthlessness either—as on more than one occasion, he brutally executes them for any kinds of failures.
Caesar
Go for it with Unicron Wet, and all well wishes to you and yours!
Yes to the Demon lord Xenos dude
Gonna reserve NIMONA (2023) here.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
@Wet: go for it for Unicron and hope your mom gets better
To Xenos
Edited by G-Editor on Jun 25th 2023 at 3:26:26 AM
Demon King Xenosload
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright thanks folks, here's Unicron.
- Unicron, the "God Of Chaos", is a malevolent Transformer seeking to obtain the Transwarp Key. Providing Scourge his Terrorcons, Unicron would have them raze countless worlds-devouring them after. Tasking Scourge with retrieving the Transwarp Key to allow him to freely travel throughout the universe, Unicron would repeatedly chastise or mentally torture him for his failures. During the film's climax, Unicron attempts to arrive to Earth to devour it. Motivated by a monstrous ego and gluttonous hunger, Unicron's ultimate goal is to consume all that exists within the universe.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jun 25th 2023 at 2:51:00 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Tyrant King.
The Craftsman.
The Demon Lord.
- Mermaid Down: Dr. Beyer is the head of a mental health clinic for women, and a predatory serial killer using his position to prey on his patients. Happening upon a fishing boat that captures and maimed a mermaid, Beyer kills her captor to steal her for himself, keeping her in a tortured state for his morbidly curious study. Using his basement as a torture dungeon for his victims, who he'd feed to his ravenous guard dog. When the mermaid soon regrows her tail, Beyer soon realizes the gig is up and begins coldly gunning down his fleeing and hiding staff and patients. Taking the restored mermaid aboard his boat, Beyer plans to dissect her “fish parts” to see how they work, desperately trying to take her rescuers down with him when beaten.
Edited by Beast on Jun 25th 2023 at 7:16:23 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Xenosload
....Phenomenal
for the Demon Lord.
Sure to the Isekai Demon Lord
Xenosload because the second and third LN arcs shows that demons have moral agency.
Edited by Bugfragged on Jun 25th 2023 at 9:34:27 AM
Yes to Xenosload and sorry about your mom, Wet.
Not the Eye
to Xenosload
Sorry to hear about your mom Wer.
The Emperor of Evil!
Sorry to hear that about your mother Wet.
to Xenosload
Goku Black
xenoslad
Sorry to hear that wet.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Caesar
- The First Law series:
- Bayaz, First of the Magi, at first appears to be a kindly, if grumpy, old wizard-mentor archetype. The truth is far more sinister. Bayaz has been the secret puppet master of The Union for centuries, sending countless men to pointless death against his Rival Turned Evil Khalul. While Khalul is a threat with his incredible magic power and legion of Eaters, those who have gained sinister powers upon eating human flesh, Bayaz manages to be far worse. He sadistically dominates the new king when the young man tries to stand up to him, revealing him as nothing more than an expendable Son of a Whore; starts a peasant uprising which claims many lives; leaves his supposed friend, Yulwei, to die when the latter learns too much; and when Bayaz uses the magical equivalent of a WMD that wipes out a huge faction of his own men and thousands of civilians, Bayaz's only response is a satisfied grin and to say "It works", not caring that another of his brother's disciples was caught in it. Bayaz even sabotages any attempt at peace that would save countless lives by killing the crown prince and framing an innocent Gurkish ambassador for the murder, just so he can keep waging war on Khalul. It is then revealed that Bayaz was the traitor and murdered his own lover, and it's implied that he also killed his master, Juvens, and Khalul fell to darkness to bring Bayaz to justice. It's further implied Bayaz might even be a cannibal himself and has no compunction using the Eaters for his own benefit.
- The Heroes: Stranger-Come-Knocking, originally named Pip, is a brutish Northman giant with a fascination for civilization, who proclaims himself chieftain of all that lies east of the Crinna. A savage tactician who lures Governor Meed's army away from his command post so as to ambush and slaughter the dozens of servants, chefs, and other unarmed staff at the outpost, Stranger-Come-Knocking takes Finree dan Brock and Aliz dan Brint as hostages and beats one of his own men into a bloody pulp just for touching Finree. Stranger-Come-Knocking plans to turn Finree and Aliz into breeding slaves to give him "civilized children" as he boasts to have done to entire tribes' worth of women in the past, and he eventually betrays King of the Northmen Black Dow and arranges for Calder to take the throne. Stranger-Come-Knocking is revealed to have been an agent of Bayaz the entire time who deliberately escalated and bloodied the war in the North before turning on Dow for Bayaz's schemes. Stranger-Come-Knocking shows himself to be truly vile even by Northmen standards, a traitor to his own people who will go to any lengths to get what he wants.
- Red Country: Grega Cantliss is a bandit who owes money to bandit Papa Ring. Setting on the frontier, Cantliss murders numerous innocents to enslave over twenty children to sell to the Dragon People of Ashranc. Murdering one child who tries to escape, Cantliss believes he is selling the children to be violated or cannibalized, unaware the Dragon People merely seek to adopt them. Frequently abusing his lover Bee, Cantliss also tries to lead Nicomo Cosca and his mercenaries to slaughter the Dragon People for money and burn Ashranc to ashes.
- The Age of Madness trilogy:
- Judge, one of the leaders of the Great Change and mistress of the ferocious Burners, is a wild and sadistic adjudicator whose verdict is always guilty. Having numerous prisoners hanged in Valbeck with areas under her control devolving into savagery and lawlessness, Judge attempts to burn the city down upon fleeing and later helps to capture Adua. Industrializing mass murder in her show trials, countless innocents and even her own allies are tried for fictitious crimes. Judge plans to implement such trials all over the Union and has dozens to hundreds condemned a day, with each tossed from the Tower of Chains to dash upon the stones below.
- Lord Fedor dan Isher is a corrupt, self-serving member of the Open Council, who schemes outright treachery against the kingdom. A brutal land baron that forces many families into the streets under threat of death down to the children, Isher grows annoyed at his own funds being depleted for the sake of the kingdom, so he decides to stage a civil war to secure himself power. Isher tricks his own ally Wetterlant into getting himself hanged so that Isher can frame it as an "injustice" committed by the crown, manipulating the idiotically ambitious Leo dan Brock into treachery. After organizing a massive army that Leo leads into bloody war at Stoffenbeck, Isher quickly abandons thousands of his allies to die to save his own skin, then weasels his way back into an alliance with King Orso to fight the Burners. Once their mutual foe is defeated, however, Isher immediately works with Leo to turn on Orso, kill him and many of his loyalists, and take over the Union for themselves. Isher then promptly betrays Leo to throw in with Savine instead, always valuing what serves himself best above all else.
Mr.
I’m not 100% sure if this is the right place to put this, but does anyone remember why Ridley from the Man on the Internet cover of his Smash Ultimate theme was cut? I mean, the character qualifies in canon, and he’s not listed on the ‘Former Complete Monsters’ page.
Lizzid people!
It had to do with him being too similar to his game counterpart.
The Hero is Overpowered but Overly Cautious is a comedic light novel with a quirky premise.
The Chosen One Seiya reincarnates to save a world alongside a goddess that would be his partner from the Demon lord's army. The trick here?
Seiya is no Hot-Blooded Stock Shōnen Hero, he is a cautious. Overtly Cautious. He researchs all his enemies before fighting them and is willing to experiment to create counter-measures to their different tricks and haxes. He would do all sorts of Trainings to become stronger and collect every item that could be useful, leading to multiple battles that otherwise would be extremely hard to end rather anti dramatically with Seiya surprising his rivals.
The world of Gaeabrande is considered a S Class threatened world, and the man making it like that?
Who is the Demon Lord of Gaeabrande Xenosload
A Demon Lord threatening to conquer the World, he arrived and used his army to cause chaos and destruction.
Under his command, his generals would kill entire towns in either experiments, simple massacres or even as sacrifices in a attempt to stop Seiya from stopping them.
He even managed to turn the Emperor Wohlks Roseguard into one of his worshippers, making a Deal with the Devil to give Wohlk's dark powers that let him recover his youth to continue being the strongest swordsman in his kingdom despite his old age in exchance for the Emperor trying to assasinate the hero-goddess duo using a special weapon.
But overall, he is...very absent personally. Until the final fight of the Geanbrande Arc (and end of the anime).
Fought by Seiya, who decided to go to fight alone in a attempt to protect his friends from the consequences of a possible defeat.
After the fight proves to be a serious challenge even for the experienced tricky Seiya, he uses his Triumph Card.
Valhalla Gate, a Sealing Attack that was taught to him by a goddess named Valkyria. Its extremely injuring even for a god, so Seiya knows that he wouldn't survive this.
The Demon Lord is sealed and Seiya agonizes, being saved by Ristarte after she sacrificed her divinity after teleporting herself to the demon castle and using a ultimate healing spell.
However....The Demon Lord isn't going to let himself be sealed so easily. He manages to temporally break Valhalla Gate and proceeds to charge Judgement Zero, A attack so powerful that it would reduce all the life in the world to dust
The recovered Seiya doesn't let that stop him and creates another Valhalla Gate to shallow the Demon Lord again, this time being completely succesful, as the Gate itself boasts before Seiya dies content with the fact that this time, he was succesful saving his friends.
Ristarte is assigned to save another world to not get stripped from her divinity and Seiya gets to reincarnate again as her partner in that world, The Adventure Continues.
Mitigant traits?
None, this guy is not complex at all. He is listed as Generic Doomsday Villain in the character page but its one of those cases where GDV is used with Flat Character when they are not the same.
The Demon Lord has a personality, is a very deliberately cliche Demon Lord that boasts about killing people and wants to destroy the world For the Evulz, but its a personality.
The series is a comedy, but the fights against the Demon Lord's army? They are treated seriously, even fights that are a clear Curb-Stomp Battle by Seiya gets treated with gravitas, with everyone showing relief at The Hero saving them so effectively rather than laughter.
Heinous Standard?
Lets be fair here, having a evil army that causes ruin and misery in the world is the standard in the setting. Enough that the Gods have practically established a multiversal police system of heroes and gods that save worlds from demon lords as a job.
Said this, a Omnicidal Maniac Demon Lord is uncommon. Ristarte, who has experience dealing with demon lords, is utterly horrified when she realizes that Judgement Zero would destroy all life.
Trying to destroy his own world, as killing everyone is not a normal behaviour even from a Demon Lord, who usually are happy simply ruling over a dystopian world even in a case of The Bad Guy Wins.
Verdict?
You decide.
EDIT: His name is Xenosload but damn its hard to find. The anime almost never mentions it.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 27th 2023 at 9:44:51 AM
Watch me destroying my country